Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GTripp0012;618739]But, I think we've seen that Campbell succeeding at ball security and mid-range completions and failing at them are not the difference between the Redskins scoring points and not.[/quote]I disagree. Campbell's poor reads, bad throws, and missing open receivers has definitely left points on the field and killed drives. I'm not advocating that he's the sole problem, because we certainly have other issues. But he certainly isn't part of the solution either....and we know what you are if you're not part of the solution

[quote]should Campbell be more conservative with his mechanics giving the situation, even if it would make him a better player? Protecting the ball, and not throwing INTs gives this team it's best chance to win, but it does nothing for Jason Campbell's long term future of this team. Winning 6 games because of improvements in ball security still means a change at QB next year. And that's where the problem lies: there's no incentive to do the small things (which are 100% in his control) better because Campbell is getting blamed for the big picture things which ne has no control over. And that's because we're a horrendous organization.[/quote]When I'm talking about ball security I'm strictly talking about how JC handles the ball from his drop to release, not on his decisions on where or when to make a throw. He has the very bad habit of holding the ball much too low, patting the ball before a throw, and his long delivery which brings the ball down to almost waist level before his delivery. On the MNF broadcast Chucky had a quick segment showing the little kids doing some basic fundy drills, the thing that struck me was that each kid actually had the ball held properly at mid-chest/shoulder height with two hands, better than what we've seen from JC.

JC has all the incentive in the world to do the little things and big things right. No matter what the Redskins' record is, this season is an NFL-wide job interview for JC. One he's not performing too well in right now.

[quote]I do not, and have not disagreed with your analysis, and I think you're doing a top notch job. At this point though, I'm finding myself (naturally) less concerned with the what (bad QB play), and more with the why.[/quote]You're absolutely right, the Why is the key. I don't think the Why for Campbell's poor play is an external issue to Campbell (OL, playcalling). He's not improving on the thiings he can control (proper footwook, proper ball security, proper pre-reads and progressions). I wish I had a clear cut answer, but from what we've seen over the last five weeks the answer appears to be JC is just not going to make the improvements necessary to be a top flight NFL QB.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;620164] It's shocking how Jason did much of the same thing he does here down in Auburn, according to Al Borges...[/quote]

I gotta call BS on this statement.
You seem to imply that Borges said something negative about Campbell.
But, that is far from the truth.

[url]http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=090...s&confirm=true[/url]

[SIZE="3"][B][COLOR="Olive"]Borges isn't buying that Campbell can't run the scheme because the West Coast system is what he ran at Auburn when Campbell blossomed. However, Borges said he tweaked the offense to take advantage of the powerful run game and Campbell's big arm. So, instead of dinking and dunking horizontally and relying on timing and receivers to make yards after the reception, Borges implemented more play-action and vertical passing.
"As much as we threw that underneath stuff, we could get it downfield," Borges said. "He could make all the throws; short, intermediate, deep. When he played in 2004, he played lights out. This kid threw almost 70 percent of his passes complete. What's phenomenal about it, his completions were over 10 yards an attempt. That's just not done. He's accurate. Matt Leinart won the Heisman at a 66 percent completion rate with a lower yards-per-catch."[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

You've also posted the part that paints the best picture of Campbell.

The part i was talking about Borges saying is how they constantly had to motivate Jason and make him believe in himself. How Jason didn't necessarily play 'scared', but he was overly cautious and they had to convince him mentally that things were going ok and he would be ok. Jason had issues with his self-confidence and mental state and it would affect him and what they did on the field. The coaches and players always had to motivate him. Here's from the article:

[B]"So much of getting Jason to play well was just trying to work with him from the neck up," said Borges, now the offensive coordinator at San Diego State. "We worked fundamentals and all that but just trying to get his psyche right, to convince him that he was a good player, the player people thought he could be, was how we got so much out of him."


Borges said he hasn't seen Campbell play this season and he hasn't spoken to him for months. However, he knows the introverted Campbell functions best when he's confident and when he has a running game to ease the pressure on him. He also said Campbell needs support from his coaches, which coach Jim Zorn seemingly gave him until he benched him against the Chiefs.



"He has to know that you believe in him," Borges said. "When I got him after two years there, he was pretty beat up mentally. He played 'concerned.' Not scared, but he played like he was afraid to make a mistake, so he didn't play well. We had to get him to take a 'let-it-rip' mentality. If he made a mistake, I took the blame. Bad play call. Once he realized we believed in him, he played to his capability. He did whatever we told him to. We told him not to do certain things, he didn't do them.
"Ninety percent of teaching is believing in the pupil and him knowing you believe in him. He believed that we believed in him." [/B]

If that doesnt sound like a guy who had self-confidence problems i dont know what did.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;620277][B]"So much of getting Jason to play well was just trying to work with him from the neck up," said Borges, now the offensive coordinator at San Diego State. "We worked fundamentals and all that but just trying to get his psyche right, to convince him that he was a good player, the player people thought he could be, was how we got so much out of him."

Borges said he hasn't seen Campbell play this season and he hasn't spoken to him for months. However, he knows the introverted Campbell functions best when he's confident and when he has a running game to ease the pressure on him. He also said Campbell needs support from his coaches, which coach Jim Zorn seemingly gave him until he benched him against the Chiefs.

"He has to know that you believe in him," Borges said. "When I got him after two years there, he was pretty beat up mentally. He played 'concerned.' Not scared, but he played like he was afraid to make a mistake, so he didn't play well. We had to get him to take a 'let-it-rip' mentality. If he made a mistake, I took the blame. Bad play call. Once he realized we believed in him, he played to his capability. He did whatever we told him to. We told him not to do certain things, he didn't do them.
"Ninety percent of teaching is believing in the pupil and him knowing you believe in him. He believed that we believed in him." [/B]

If that doesnt sound like a guy who had self-confidence problems i dont know what did.[/quote]

How does that make him sound like he has self-confidence problems?
Because he needs support to succeed?
Borges describes what any QB or PG/SG primary ball handler in basketball(which i used to coach) needs to succeed.
If you don't understand that your star player has to know that you trust them implicitly you don't understand team sports.

Here's an example from Brett Favre watch this video from NFL.com:
Watch the [B][COLOR="Red"]1:38[/COLOR][/B] mark to the 2:03 mark
Green Bay Packers
Favre on Favre
[url=http://www.nfl.com/videos/green-bay-packers/09000d5d80707f9c/Favre-on-Favre]NFL Videos: Favre on Favre[/url]


"The coaches that he [Holmgren] hired for me couldn't have been better.
I can tell you numerous times when those guys would take the heat for me. He [Andy Reid] covered for me (refering to the clip)...Mike knew...but somebody had to get yelled at fortunately it was them most of the time"

[quote]You've also posted the part that paints the best picture of Campbell.[/quote]

You are attributing your opinion negative opinion of Jason to Al Borges, which clearly isn't within the article.
Borges said that Jason was a mentally beat up QB when he[Borges] came to Auburn after splitting time as a freshman and having different OC each season.

[quote]The part i was talking about Borges saying is how they constantly had to motivate Jason and make him believe in himself. How Jason didn't necessarily play 'scared', but he was overly cautious and they had to convince him mentally that things were going ok and he would be ok. [/quote]

Your statement is rife with inaccuracies.
YOU:[quote]constantly had to motivate Jason and make him believe in himself.[/quote]
Borges:[quote]Once he realized we believed in him, he played to his capability[/quote]
He doesn't describe a 'constant' process to motivate Jason.
[quote]Jason had issues with his self-confidence and mental state and it would affect him and what they did on the field. The coaches and players always had to motivate him.[/quote]
^^ENTIRELY YOUR OPINION no where within the article does Borges say anything remotely resembling this statement.

Remember your orginal statement?
The casual passer by would read that statement and take you at word that Borges said something negative about JC's play here or at Auburn, which isn't the case.
[quote=SolidSnake84;620164] It's shocking how Jason did much of the same thing he does here down in Auburn, according to Al Borges...[/quote]

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GTripp0012;620168]Well, when you've been a quarterback in the same place McNabb has for more than ten years, you're bound to run into a string of success.

I frequently ask myself if there's anything that he does so consistently well, game in and game out, that makes him such an irreplaceable part of the Philly offense. And I've come to the conclusion that: McNabb is a very, very good player, and has been so for a long time, but there's nothing Philly couldn't replace if, say, he went to go play overseas. They proved this, I think, with the Kolb pick. I doubt Kevin Kolb is ever going to be a hall of fame player, but he's a functional piece in a bigger machine, who happens to be blocked by McNabb.

None of this is meant to be disrespectful, as Donovan is valuable year in and year out in the Philly offense. Of course, if the Eagles had taken Ricky Williams instead, McNabb could have gone to the Bengals or the Bears, and you would have never heard from him again. On the other hand, he's a big reason that the Eagles have been able to remain so good for so long. By ignoring the QB position every year, they've been able to build a team that could easily survive a QB swap. Ironically.

For a much shorter time, Campbell offered us stability at the QB position, but if the difference between his career and McNabb's is that, when the going got tough, McNabb labored through it and Campbell fell victim to his teams' offensive suckitude, well, then you'd have to conclude that McNabb is the better player. [B]I'm just not sure that the going ever got tough on McNabb[/B], which is where the comparison falls apart.[/quote]

Great post GT.

I would add that McNabb seems more comfortable in a leadership role. McNabb also got through his early years by running a lot as he was not very accurate w/the ball.

As for the going getting tough on him, I think he's endured his fair share of negative publicity and handled it extremely well. Start w/draft day when the philly fans wanted R. Williams. Then the Rush Limbaugh & TO comments. Plus the philly fans are just brutal. WE may be passionate, but they are passionate neanderthals.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=skinsfan69;619619]I'm talking about the 07 season.[/quote]

Had JC played that entire season I doubt the Skins would have made the playoffs.

As for comparing JC to McNabb, that's the funniest thing I ever heard. Its like comparing Secretariat to a $5000 claimer at Charles Town, there is no comparison.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=irish;620367]Had JC played that entire season I doubt the Skins would have made the playoffs.

As for comparing JC to McNabb, that's the funniest thing I ever heard. Its like comparing Secretariat to a $5000 claimer at Charles Town, there is no comparison.[/quote]

I agree we don't.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;620236]I disagree. [B]Campbell's poor reads, bad throws, and missing open receivers has definitely left points on the field and killed drives. [/B]I'm not advocating that he's the sole problem, because we certainly have other issues. But he certainly isn't part of the solution either....and we know what you are if you're not part of the solution

When I'm talking about ball security I'm strictly talking about how JC handles the ball from his drop to release, not on his decisions on where or when to make a throw. He has the very bad habit of holding the ball much too low, patting the ball before a throw, and his long delivery which brings the ball down to almost waist level before his delivery. On the MNF broadcast Chucky had a quick segment showing the little kids doing some basic fundy drills, the thing that struck me was that each kid actually had the ball held properly at mid-chest/shoulder height with two hands, better than what we've seen from JC.

JC has all the incentive in the world to do the little things and big things right. No matter what the Redskins' record is, this season is an NFL-wide job interview for JC. One he's not performing too well in right now.

You're absolutely right, the Why is the key. I don't think the Why for Campbell's poor play is an external issue to Campbell (OL, playcalling). He's not improving on the thiings he can control (proper footwook, proper ball security, proper pre-reads and progressions). I wish I had a clear cut answer, but from what we've seen over the last five weeks the answer appears to be JC is just not going to make the improvements necessary to be a top flight NFL QB.[/quote]

there was a play in the philly game where espn did a replay and showed the whole field. lewis called a fake smoke screen where jc pumped faked the wr screen and if he had waited for the play to fully develop he would've had moss wide opn for a td. jaws pointed it out. but jc checked the ball down and not letting the play develop. this is one of many instances. w/out question he's killed scoring chances. plus their is no excuse for the sloppy mechanics in your 5th year.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=irish;620367]Had JC played that entire season I doubt the Skins would have made the playoffs.

As for comparing JC to McNabb, that's the funniest thing I ever heard. Its like comparing Secretariat to a $5000 claimer at Charles Town, there is no comparison.[/quote]Or kind of like comparing Todd Collins to Jason Campbell. It's like we know one to be better than the other, but some nimrods still think we we unlikely to make the playoffs with Campbell. It's just a bad comparison, you're right.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Just my last 2 cents - the smartest thing I think that anyone can do now is to stay away from this discussion.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GTripp0012;620386]Or kind of like comparing Todd Collins to Jason Campbell. It's like we know one to be better than the other, but some nimrods still think we we unlikely to make the playoffs with Campbell. It's just a bad comparison, you're right.[/quote]

Comparing TC to JC is like comparing a $5000 claimer and a $7500 claimer, neither is a very good horse.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=warriorzpath;620389]Just my last 2 cents - the smartest thing I think that anyone can do now is to stay away from this discussion.[/quote]

I'm thinking of starting a new thread comparing OchoCinco's numbers to Malcolm Kelly's on a weekly basis. The numbers don't lie!!


Maybe I'll throw in DJ Hackett's just to balance things out :)

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SmootSmack;620395]I'm thinking of starting a new thread comparing OchoCinco's numbers to Malcolm Kelly's on a weekly basis. The numbers don't lie!!


Maybe I'll throw in DJ Hackett's just to balance things out :)[/quote]

Throw in Roy Williams too. Remember how so many people said that they would rather have Williams than Johnson, and wouldn't mind giving up picks for RW, because he was "young." Yeah right.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SmootSmack;620395]I'm thinking of starting a new thread comparing OchoCinco's numbers to Malcolm Kelly's on a weekly basis. The numbers don't lie!!


Maybe I'll throw in DJ Hackett's just to balance things out :)[/quote]

lol!

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

UPDATED stats/assessment...Jason's getting downright abused by this offensive line.

Cutler:
WK 9 - 29/47 (61.7%), 369 yds, 3 TD, 1 INT, 98.6 rating, 17 rush yds
TOTAL: 182/286 (63.5%), 2,046 yds, 14 TD, 12 INT, 83.8 rating, 109 rush yds

Sanchez:
WK 9 - *BYE* (final Bye for these 3 QBs)
TOTAL: 114/213 (53.5%), 1,443 yds, 8 TD, 10 INT, 67.9 rating, 60 rush yds

Campbell:
WK 9 - 15/22 (68.2%), 196 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT, 92.2 rating, 40 rush yds
TOTAL: 151/228 (66.2%), 1,677 yds, 9 TD, 8 INT, 86.5 rating, 143 rush yds


Ranks:
Comp. % = Campbell, Cutler, Sanchez
Yds = Cutler (2,046) Campbell (1,677) Sanchez (1,443)
TDs = Cutler (14), Campbell (9), Sanchez (8)
INTs (fewest) = Campbell (8), Sanchez/Cutler (11)
QB rating = Campbell (86.5), Cutler (83.8), Sanchez (67.9)
Rush yds = Campbell (143), Cutler (109), Sanchez(60)


Week 9 Campbell overview:
Tough week for JC, physically. In the first half, he was sacked 5 times and had been knocked out of the game with an injury. His one INT that was returned for a TD was directly attributed to a case of butterfingers by Fred Davis, who let a pass bounce off his hands into the arms of a Falcon defender. In the second half, although battered and bruised (literally), Campbell was able to lead the team back to a 24-17 deficit and put together a great second half statistically, highlighted by a nice play to use his feet to buy time and find Todd Yoder in the back corner of the endzone for a TD. Campbell had 40 more yards rushing against the Falcons. He's 4th in the NFL in rushing yards by a QB, behind only Aaron Rodgers, David Garrard and Josh Johnson. Overall, it was another painful and difficult day for Jason, but he did once again as he's done a few times this season shown that he can lead the team back when down big. If only he had the protection and teammates to prevent the team from falling so far behind, he could have a completely different reputation around the media and league. His stats were once again solid despite being completely smothered by another defense treating our line like turnstiles.

Jay Cutler had a better than usual game and some big numbers in a shootout with Arizona that the Bears lost 41-21, a game which Chicago managed only a total of 70 rushing yards.

Now with an even 8 games played by all three QBs and no more bye weeks remaining for any of them, Campbell still only trails Cutler in yards and TDs, while leading the remainder of the categories including the fewest INTs with three less than both Sanchez and Cutler. As we've seen, several of these INTs were the direct result of dropped balls or a batted ball at the line, attributable to the lack of a line.

It appears that the Redskins hit a wall at 17 points, because it is the season high for points and has been matched 4 times in 8 games! However, it can't be completely blamed on the QB play because Campbell is continuing to be efficient despite having no protection and is being hit far too many times. He has been sacked 11 times in the previous two weeks, (17 times in the past 4 games) yet has managed to help the team match it's season high of 17 points in both weeks. It appears this team as a whole hits a wall and can't score more than 17 points. No one can blame this lack of production on any single player. Campbell has actually outperformed both McNabb and Matt Ryan in the previous two games, passing for 480 yards and 3 TDs compared to 291 yards and 2 TDs for McNabb/Ryan combined.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Jason Campbell . . . :doh:

I feel sorry seeing that poor SOB in there. He reminds me of Brunell.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Brunell? :confused:

You're going to have to explain this one. :D

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

It is what it is, why must ppl spend so much time defending a guy who wont be here next here? GB and TB have terrible Olines and are not so solid team wise yet they can still score points. Not sayin its all jc's fault but he is not playing like a 1st rounder should be.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Buster;622878]Brunell? :confused:

You're going to have to explain this one. :D[/quote]

Did you see Soup on the ground in pain the other day?

That reminds me of Brunell. The only difference is that Brunell was smart enough to throw the ball away most of the time.

I used to hate him for that. Now I know why he did it. Who would want to take that kind of punishment?

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

On one of the telecast a commentator said Zorn doesn't let JC call audibles. Is this true? If so that can explain a lot of the poor offensive performance.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Green1;623200]On one of the telecast a commentator said Zorn doesn't let JC call audibles. Is this true? If so that can explain a lot of the poor offensive performance.[/quote]
This is correct as far as what I've heard.. that we don't have them in the offensive plan.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;622933]Did you see Soup on the ground in pain the other day?

That reminds me of Brunell. The only difference is that Brunell was smart enough to throw the ball away most of the time.

I used to hate him for that. Now I know why he did it. Who would want to take that kind of punishment?[/quote]

OK, I get it, they're similar QBs because they both ended up on the ground a lot.

Fine assessment. :food-smil

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;622912]It is what it is, why must ppl spend so much time defending a guy who wont be here next here? GB and TB have terrible Olines and are not so solid team wise yet they can still score points. Not sayin its all jc's fault but he is not playing like a 1st rounder should be.[/quote]
First of all, we don't know he's gone. A lot of people would actually like to him stay another year IF the line is reinforced to see him play with a chance.

About playing like a first-rounder...how CAN he with the coaching and personnel around him. Vinny set up the team to fail around him, Zorn won't let Campbell take over and run the offense, plus he uses the entire offense improperly...and he has NO protection.

Campbell this year is looking like David Carr in the Houston years when he was sacked 50-60 times a year and had the skills but no chance to use them. With 25 sacks after 8 games already...17 in the last 4 and 11 in the last 2 games (they're increasing in frequency as the year progresses)...60 sacks could very well happen if he can physically survive until Week 17.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

The key for Campbell is to get sacked less in the second half of the year than the first. If he develops a major ball-holding tendency, I don't think I'd tender him a contract. The OL is going to be bad: we know that. Just get the ball out quickly.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GTripp0012;623374]The key for Campbell is to get sacked less in the second half of the year than the first. If he develops a major ball-holding tendency, I don't think I'd tender him a contract. The OL is going to be bad: we know that. Just get the ball out quickly.[/quote]I was encouraged by the play Campbell made on the Yoder TD. He extended the play with his legs and threw an absolute strike. I wish that he would use his athletic ability more - he had some excellent runs when protection broke down and the Falcons were in man to man D.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GTripp0012;623374]The key for Campbell is to get sacked less in the second half of the year than the first. If he develops a major ball-holding tendency, I don't think I'd tender him a contract. The OL is going to be bad: we know that. Just get the ball out quickly.[/quote]

Would you keep him as a back up?

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Ruhskins;623406]Would you keep him as a back up?[/quote]Well, it'd probably change the tender amount. I don't think I'd have a situation where he was a non-tender (contrary to what I just said...I didn't mean literal non-tender, I meant no long term contract offer of any length), but what you can receive in a trade for a RFA is directly related to how much you're willing to pay for him.

If we tender him at the second round level, we can't expect to receive more than a fourth or best case a third for him. If we tender him at a first round level, we can probably get a second.

If he doesn't become a major ballholder, I'd be comfortable with him as our starter next year while we rebuild. If he does develop that tendency, I'd be more comfortable with him as a backup. I haven't made any conclusions yet, obviously, if he plays like he did in the Atlanta game the rest of the year, he'll end up somewhere as a starter next year.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=GTripp0012;623374]The key for Campbell is to get sacked less in the second half of the year than the first. If he develops a major ball-holding tendency, I don't think I'd tender him a contract. The OL is going to be bad: we know that. Just get the ball out quickly.[/quote]

About frigging time they moved the pocket around. There are ways to scheme around a poor Offensive line. I've been saying it here for over a year, damnit! They finally showed it in the second half. Roll out Campbell, throw screens, run draws, etc. You can't eliminate all sacks, but what team can?

I really like the shotgun look within the 5. About damn time for that as well. Must be a Sherm thang.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Ruhskins;623406]Would you keep him as a back up?[/quote]

I would keep him, and let him compete for the starting job. Hell, give him the starting job. Don't they just have to match the best offer for him? Shouldn't be that much. Draft a QB, rebuild the O line, get some running backs and hire a new coaching staff. Campbell may come out of nowhere next year and make fools out of his detractors, myself included. Maybe we end up with 2 starting caliber QBs on the roster. Not a bad position to be in. I wouldn't let Campbell walk if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to keep him here.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Stats are wonderful, they never lie... they will tell whatever story you want them to simply by using the ones you like and omitting the ones you don't. So they don't lie... but they are the favored tool of people who want to establish a conclusion that flies in the face of simple observation.

I observe (simply) that JC is overly cautious and hesitant (even when his line has been healthy) to make longer throws, so he checks down too quickly and throws the ball to safe outlet receivers too often, and that along with west coast short pass play calling handily accounts for his higher than expected completion percentage... This explanation seems far more plausible than suggesting he's actually among the best QB's in the league when he very plainly isn't. His completion % is also helped by the 3 or 4 sacks per game where he could have thrown it away. When you throw around 30 times a game 3 or 4 incompletions is a significant number.

He has a ponderous wind up, that leads to fumbles and jumped routes... he is not nearly as mobile as people give him credit for. He holds the ball too long, and he doesn't throw it away even when he can legally do so outside the tackles. He looks at the rush, instead of down field. He has ZERO pocket presence, he hears "footsteps" and steps into sacks while avoiding phantoms that aren't there... The line is awful, but he had these same issues in past seasons when the line was much better.

He is sorely lacking in fundamentals such at ball control when he's moving, and taking the snap. We've seen him coached to keep the ball high and tight to his chest with both hands when he drops back... But he always reverts back to one handing the ball down at his hips, gunslinger style. This significantly increases his already long wind up, and makes him an easy target for sack/fumbles. He appears to be hard to coach, or not smart enough to be coached, because he surely has had this drilled into him by now (along with all the other sloppy fundamentals he can't seem to shake)

And yes his WR core is thin, his O-line is old and patchwork... But in the past even when he has played his best he is a mediocre QB who starts slow and doesn't play well until the second half of games. At his best (so far) Physically he looks slower and less confident than the career backup behind him. Under current circumstances he of course looks even worse.

I'm talking about how he moves, how he takes snaps, how he throws and drops back, how he sets himself, how he carries the ball, how long he holds it... These are not rocket science and they will tell you a whole crap load more about Jason Campbell than any statistic can.

All of this is ignoring important aspects such as leadership among the players and on field trust with his coaches there's a rumor that they don't allow him to audible(!) and while he'll still have "automatics" or "hot reads" that says a lot about his ability to read defenses.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Cutler is looking better than ever.

4 picks is pretty bad. Gunslingers live and die by the gun. This is Cutler's 2nd terrible game and now leads the league in interceptions.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;624368]Cutler is looking better than ever.

4 picks is pretty bad. Gunslingers live and die by the gun. This is Cutler's 2nd terrible game and now leads the league in interceptions.[/quote]

Make that 5 picks.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

cutler is on pace for 25 picks this year, thank god the bears fo was more retarded than ours, cutler blows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=44Deezel;623428]I would keep him, and let him compete for the starting job. Hell, give him the starting job. Don't they just have to match the best offer for him? Shouldn't be that much. Draft a QB, rebuild the O line, get some running backs and hire a new coaching staff. Campbell may come out of nowhere next year and make fools out of his detractors, myself included. Maybe we end up with 2 starting caliber QBs on the roster. Not a bad position to be in. I wouldn't let Campbell walk if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to keep him here.[/quote]

I really don't see the point of drafting more qb's, every year we draft one and they never play. To me just a wasted pick every year. I'll take a veteran anyday.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Zerohero;624382]I really don't see the point of drafting more qb's, every year we draft one and they never play. To me just a wasted pick every year. I'll take a veteran anyday.[/quote]

Have you seen what free agency looks like at the QB position?

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Ruhskins;624385]Have you seen what free agency looks like at the QB position?[/quote]

yes... like the sahara...dry

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Thanks for continuing to prove my stance to be the right one, Jay!

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Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

I think we can now safely say all 3 suck.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=mlmdub130;624388]yes... like the sahara...dry[/quote]

Wait until the offseason, that pool should increase with some vets becoming availible as organizations look to rebuild as well.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Mattyk72;624535]I think we can now safely say all 3 suck.[/quote]Lawl at Snyder's ability to identify a good quarterback.

Remember that since he "found" Patrick Ramsey, he's yet to discover a player who is better than Patrick Ramsey.