Commanders Post at The Warpath - Trayvon Martin Case

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- Debating with the enemy (http://www.thewarpath.net/forumdisplay.php?f=75)

- - Trayvon Martin Case (http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=47118)

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

[quote=JoeRedskin;1015420]Cue wrongful death suit.[/quote]

Does he even have anything worth going after?

I would assume not much.
I also assume he will lose his shirt.

HG28 - You aren't found "guilty" in a civil suit. You are found liable. For those of us who don't study law at Holiday Inns, it is a significant difference.

I am glad that, at least some folks, still take the presumption of innocence seriously.

I disagree with it but glad it's,over

I would also hope that States with 'Stand your ground' laws review it, it needs some manner of tweak.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

[quote=RedskinRat;1015428]I would also hope that States with 'Stand your ground' laws review it, it needs some manner of tweak.[/quote]Tweaking for this case or a case like this? (link embedded below). And tweaked in what way?

[URL="http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/12/s-c-supreme-court-abruptly-halts-murder-trial-to-hear-arguments-on-stand-your-ground-after-an-armed-intruder-uses-it-to-justify-killing-a-homeowner/"]The South Carolina Supreme Court had made the unusual move of halting a murder trial to hold a hearing on the state’s so-called “stand your ground” law — but it’s who’s claiming the defense that’s likely to turn heads: an armed intruder who shot and killed the man whose home he broke into.
Gregg Isaac testified in court this week that he entered the apartment of Antonio Corbitt in 2005 with another man, Tavares World, after World kicked in the door, The State newspaper reported. Isaac testified that as World and Corbitt fought, it looked like Corbitt was going to pull a gun and shoot Isaac, so instead, Isaac shot Corbitt twice. Corbitt stumbled outside and died.
Isaac said he also feared for his life from World, because World had threatened to kill him unless he went along with him.
Isaac’s defense attorney Mark Schnee argued that his client should be granted immunity from prosecution because South Carolina’s 2006 “stand your ground” law allows people to use deadly force if they fear for their lives.[/URL]

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

[quote=JoeRedskin;1015426]HG28 - You aren't found "guilty" in a civil suit. You are found liable. For those of us who don't study law at Holiday Inns, it is a significant difference.

I am glad that, at least some folks, still take the presumption of innocence seriously.[/quote]

Speaking of....I had you in mind when I posted this on twitter.

[B]NC_Skins ‏@NC_Skins23

The ignorance spewed on twitter by "Holiday Inn Express" lawyers in regards to justice is laughable.[/B]

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

No surprise that Zimmerman got off. Self defense is a sneaky way of getting out of the law in terms of murder/manslaughter.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Bullshit but I'm glad its over. Maybe people can go back to happier things.

[QUOTE=HailGreen28;1015434]Tweaking for this case or a case like this? (link embedded below). And tweaked in what way?

[URL="http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/12/s-c-supreme-court-abruptly-halts-murder-trial-to-hear-arguments-on-stand-your-ground-after-an-armed-intruder-uses-it-to-justify-killing-a-homeowner/"]The South Carolina Supreme Court had made the unusual move of halting a murder trial to hold a hearing on the state’s so-called “stand your ground” law — but it’s who’s claiming the defense that’s likely to turn heads: an armed intruder who shot and killed the man whose home he broke into. <SNIP>[/URL][/QUOTE]

That's FUBAR, armed intruder? Guilty.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Why are people so shocked about the verdict? Casey Anthony was also given a not-guilty verdict, but the fact still remained that it couldn't be proven "without a shadow of a doubt". This isn't about whether you think they are guilty, it's whether or not the evidence shows they are guilty.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

All of you burn in hell.

This just in.

Aaron Hernandez has just claimed self defense with all 10 people he's shot in the past.

[QUOTE=RGIII;1015441]All of you burn in hell.[/QUOTE]

You believe in hell? <point_laugh>

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1015439]Why are people so shocked about the verdict? Casey Anthony was also given a not-guilty verdict, but the fact still remained that it couldn't be proven "without a shadow of a doubt". This isn't about whether you think they are guilty, it's whether or not the evidence shows they are guilty.[/QUOTE]

Good point

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

[quote=RGIII;1015441]All of you burn in hell.[/quote]

Wait, why?

[QUOTE=RGIII;1015441]All of you burn in hell.[/QUOTE]

See you there.

Prediction: Zimmerman murdered within 3 months.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

[quote=RedskinRat;1015448]Prediction: Zimmerman murdered within 3 months.[/quote]

Better get his hiding tips from Casey Anthony.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

[quote=saden1;1015423]Does he even have anything worth going after?[/quote]

Doesn't matter...I'd sue his pants off. Wrongful death is exactly what this was.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Hopefully the regular season will.....commence prior to the.....wrongful trial

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

[quote=DynamiteRave;1015445]Wait, why?[/quote]

Just because it's legal, it doesn't mean it's right. If you're gonna be a bitch, don't be a play cop. If you're gonna be a bitch, stay your bitch ass in the car. If you're gonna be a bitch, take a beat down from a kid almost half your age without pulling a gun.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

[quote=RGIII;1015454]Just because it's legal, it doesn't mean it's right. If you're gonna be a bitch, don't be a play cop. If you're gonna be a bitch, stay your bitch ass in the car. If you're gonna be a bitch, take a beat down from a kid almost half your age without pulling a gun.[/quote]

I'm with you. Not guilty is bullshit and no legal mumbo jumbo by anyone changes that. Just thought that was a very visceral way to come across. Its a rough day though, no doubt.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

[quote=RGIII;1015441]All of you burn in hell.[/quote]

What's that now?

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

[quote=RGIII;1015454]Just because it's legal, it doesn't mean it's right. If you're gonna be a bitch, don't be a play cop. If you're gonna be a bitch, stay your bitch ass in the car. If you're gonna be a bitch, take a beat down from a kid almost half your age without pulling a gun.[/quote]

Almost sounds like he wasn't gonna be a bitch by your logic?

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

[quote=JoeRedskin;1014278] What do you mean "this outcome"? If the only fact you change is that T shoots Z, you still have much of the speculative issues presented. T claims he was in fear of his life but testimony places him on top of Z in "ground and pound" mode with Z yelling for help. Next thing we know, Z is dead. (assume also the other witnesses come out and say they see TM get off the ground with a prone Z next to him).

I think the case against TM would be stronger especially since his body showed no evidence of injury. But, essentially, and assuming TM asserts self-defense, you would have much the same issues - speculation as to who started the fight and what happened during it. Certainly, the underlying principles - burden of proof, legal elements of the crime charged and innocent until proven guilty would be applicable to TM just as they now apply to Z.

And to be clear - "a confrontation initiated by Z" is a generalization that encompasses both legal and illegal acts in this situation. Z can initiate a verbal confrontation. TM can initiate a verbal confrontation. [I]NEITHER[/I] can initiate a physical confrontation.

People can yell at you and aggressively taunt you in public. They can call you dirty names. They can call you the N word. They can call you a crazy cracker. They can insult your parents, sister and kids. They can make general threats of harm so long as they do so from a position where they can't reasonably be expected to carry out the threat (Shouting "I'm gonna kick your ass" from 10 feet away). They can stay at more than arms length and "flinch" as if to strike you. ...

You know what you (be you a teen, child or adult) can do in these situations? Yell back, call the cops or simply ignore it. [If they make a threat and then move to carry it out - that's different[I] e.g. [/I]saying they are going to kick your ass and then charging you. [I]While you would still have a duty to retreat[/I] (in MD) - you only need do so if you believe you can reasonably get to a safe place]

Those "technical details" are, again, what I like to refer to as "law" and "burden of proof".

Z, through his actions, initiated the "situation" of a verbal confrontation - there is no evidence as to who started the "situation" of a physical confrontation. Leading up to the physical confontation, Z - IMHO - clearly exercised bad judgment. Bad judgment, however, is not a crime. Initiating a physical attack is - and that "situation" may have been "started" by Z or TM.

Before sending Z to jail, the State bears the burden of proof and persuasion to show BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that Z committed all the elements of the crime for which he is accused.

Who has alleged he has authority to harass anyone?? True, much as you don't like it, Z was legally authorized to carry a concealed weapon in public spaces. Assuming Z was harassing folks, however, if that harrasment was limited to following people and verbally confronting them, the appropriate response is to CALL THE F'ING POLICE. YOU DO NOT get to take matters into your own hands.

DAMN - why is this such a hard concept for folks to comprehend. Had TM said to his friend, "I'll call you back, I gotta call the police some crazy cracker is followng me." Maybe, just maybe, it would have been straightened out quickly. Instead, we get macho wannabe crime stopper versus macho wannabe teen and a tragic outcome with nothing but speculation on the key elements of legal responsibilty.

I gotta say, the willingness and ease with which some of you think violence is a proper response to being challenged, "harrased" or otherwise inconvenienced is disconcerting. [B]Why does violence exist? B/c people still fundamentally believe it is the right way to resolve personal problems.
[/B]

Well, screw the trial then - the line for pitchforks and torches starts behind G84C.[/quote]

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-with-the-enemy/47118-trayvon-martin-case-49.html#post1014278[/url]

The most valuable thing said in this thread, at least imho.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

[quote=mlmpetert;1015459][url]http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-with-the-enemy/47118-trayvon-martin-case-49.html#post1014278[/url]

The most valuable thing said in this thread, at least imho.[/quote]

Truth.

The case came down to this...

The prosecution had to prove GZ initiated the physical altercation. Not only did they not do this thy didnt even come close. The gap between what happened when GZ got out of the car and a dead body laying on the ground was wide. The only people who know were either dead or on trial for their life. Neither side made a truly convincing argument as to what happened. People can THINK they know what GZ did and what his state of mind was but they're only presuming on that point because there wasn't much evidence of that either. I think a trigger happy zilch got confronted, someone made a shove (probably even minor), the shove was reciprocated and all hell broke loose. Who did the initiating matters legally...and none of us know.

I think the white on black stuff is stupid, first of all Zimmerman is Hispanic and has claimed it .

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Anyway, he got away with murder. I Imagine if he had shot a dog or himself he would be in jail. I reason their should be some murder convictions appealed due to this ruling. The civil litigation is gonna be a beast. I would hate to be in that Home Owners Association, they are about to kick out some millions in the upcoming wrongful death suit. Besides, the fact Zimmerman was acting as a neighborhood watch may put him reach of the Feds. If so, he still might face penalties.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

[B]Where's the riot?[/B] Out of touch with reality, out of touch with America. Can we say "live in a anti-Obama bubble"?

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

[quote=skinsfaninok;1015461]I think the white on black stuff is stupid, first of all Zimmerman is Hispanic and has claimed it .[/quote]

Hispanics "claim" themselves to be white when it's convenient. He's biracial, his dad is white. Zimmerman isn't a Hispanic name. Many biracial people flip-flop on their race as convenient. Check with your human resources manager.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

[quote=RGIII;1015467]Hispanics "claim" themselves to be white when it's convenient. He's biracial, his dad is white. Zimmerman isn't a Hispanic name. Many biracial people flip-flop on their race as convenient. Check with your human resources manager.[/quote]

Well the jury was alls white except one. They found 6. Not hard to find.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

what will happen to George Zimmerman now?

The NAACP says they are going to appeal the ruling, and also introduce measures to remove the stand your ground law from every state.

Does that constitute double jeopardy? Can they try him again for maybe a lesser crime??

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

[quote=SolidSnake84;1015469]what will happen to George Zimmerman now?

The NAACP says they are going to appeal the ruling, and also introduce measures to remove the stand your ground law from every state.

Does that constitute double jeopardy? Can they try him again for maybe a lesser crime??[/quote]

Federal crimes realated to being a "safety officer", wrongful death suits, etc. He was aquitted of murder and manslaughter, but he killed an unarmed person.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

[quote=Gary84Clark;1015465]Anyway, he got away with murder. I Imagine if he had shot a dog or himself he would be in jail. I reason their should be some murder convictions appealed due to this ruling. The civil litigation is gonna be a beast. I[B] would hate to be in that Home Owners Association, they are about to kick out some millions in the upcoming wrongful death suit. [/B]Besides, the fact Zimmerman was acting as a neighborhood watch may put him reach of the Feds. If so, he still might face penalties.[/quote]

The HO Assoc. has already settled for an undisclosed amount thought to be in excess of $1M.

[url=http://atlantablackstar.com/2013/04/06/trayvon-martin-family-settles-with-homeowners-assoc-for-more-than-1-mil/]Trayvon Martin Family Settles with Homeowners Assn. For Over $1M - Atlanta Black Star[/url]

[quote]Robert Taylor, founding partner of Taylor & Carls P.A., a law firm that represents homeowner associations but has no connection to the Retreat at Twin Lakes, told the Orlando Sentinel that the settlement did not mean the association admitted any wrongdoing or liability. Taylor said the decision to settle was most likely a business decision.

“It’s really nothing more than a risk-versus-reward analysis,” Taylor said.

...

“It is understood and agreed that the payment made herein is not to be construed as an admission of any liability by or on behalf of the releasing parties; but instead the monies being paid hereunder is consideration for avoiding litigation, the uncertainties stemming from litigation as well as to protect and secure the good name and good will of the released parties,” said the language in the settlement.[/quote]

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

[quote=RGIII;1015467]Hispanics "claim" themselves to be white when it's convenient. He's biracial, his dad is white. Zimmerman isn't a Hispanic name. Many biracial people flip-flop on their race as convenient. Check with your human resources manager.[/quote]

No racial profiling there.

If you ever want to be sure of finding a bigot in the room, just find a mirror.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

[quote=724Skinsfan;1015035]Let's just convict on reasonable assumption, not acquit through reasonable doubt. Problem solved.[/quote]

The most clear and concise statement of the case against Zimmerman.

Re: Trayvon Martin Case

[quote=JoeRedskin;1015472]No racial profiling there.

If you ever want to be sure of finding a bigot in the room, just find a mirror.[/quote]

Joe, PM me your paypal info so that I can send you enough to buy a six pack of your choice. You deserve it with the legal knowledge and verbal beat down you've bestowed upon people in this thread.