Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=jamf;1228314]If TW starts, I'll bump up the wins projections by 2.
Donald Penn is a great backup.[/quote]

Even as a stud LT, they ain't going to win you 2 games just being in the line up.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Schneed10;1227907]"Schneed was right."

- everyone on The Warpath on 9/8/2019[/quote]

Might not be on 9/8. But as usual...

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Schneed10;1227886]Exactly. If you were really going to war over principle, that's where you'd take it. He'll be back, I'm as certain of it as I am of anything.[/quote]

;);)

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Schneed10;1228330]Might not be on 9/8. But as usual...[/quote]

Haha don't jinx it man! But yeah definitely looks like your "he won't miss out on many game checks" theory is well in play.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1228327]Even as a stud LT, they ain't going to win you 2 games just being in the line up.[/quote]

Being forced to start Christian when/if Penn breaks down would start costing the team games and Possibly QBs similar to our situation last year.

Let’s avoid another Shawn Lauvao situation if we can.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=jamf;1228333]Being forced to start Christian when/if Penn breaks down would start costing the team games and Possibly QBs similar to our situation last year.

Let’s avoid another Shawn Lauvao situation if we can.[/quote]

Agreed.

Not sure if one player's presence can lock 2 more wins, but the absence of a solid LT can lock 2 more losses for sure.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

Mark Bullock
✔
@MarkBullockNFL
Interesting line from DHall on this pod: Bruce told me he asked Trent “tell me who to fire and I’ll fire them”. Trent’s response “Man, I don’t want to cost nobody their job. I don’t want to put anybody’s livelihood in my hands” [url]https://twitter.com/theathleticdc/status/1168924454606561282[/url] …
The Athletic
✔
@TheAthleticDC
#BREAKING: @DeAngeloHall23 tells @ErinHawksworth on 'Hail to the Podcast' that Trent Williams could return to the Redskins 'sooner rather than later.'

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1228340]Mark Bullock
✔
@MarkBullockNFL
Interesting line from DHall on this pod: Bruce told me he asked Trent “tell me who to fire and I’ll fire them”. Trent’s response “Man, I don’t want to cost nobody their job. I don’t want to put anybody’s livelihood in my hands” [url]https://twitter.com/theathleticdc/status/1168924454606561282[/url] …
The Athletic
✔
@TheAthleticDC
#BREAKING: @DeAngeloHall23 tells @ErinHawksworth on 'Hail to the Podcast' that Trent Williams could return to the Redskins 'sooner rather than later.'[/quote]

If this is true, and that is a big if, I think that is sad. It goes to show you just how much of a total snake Allen is. What total pond scum he is...

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

Why are we posting the exact same quotes every time a different source repeats it?

Also, as it relates to this exchange...

[QUOTE]Bruce told me he asked Trent “tell me who to fire and I’ll fire them”. Trent’s response “Man, I don’t want to cost nobody their job. I don’t want to put anybody’s livelihood in my hands”[/QUOTE]

... I think it is very interesting that we're hearing about this from Trent's side of things (via Hall).

If it had come from the redskins camp, it could be seen as the team trying to make Trent look bad. It would appear that the skins were doing everything in their power to make Trent happy, but his problems with the medical staff were never extreme enough to warrant anyone's losing their job. Therefore, it would paint Trent as being greedy and this really being ALL about money. This would make the team look good and Trent look bad. And we would all be questioning the veracity of the exchange.

But, since it came from Trent's side, its quite telling. It does make the team look like its trying to do everything it can to keep him. But it also makes it seem like, the medical staff really WAS a concern for Trent, but when push came to shove, Trent himself realized his concerns may not have been as severe as he thought. It leads me to believe that Trent may now be starting to recognize that perhaps he over-reacted. He's upset about the [I]situation, [/I] but now realizes that the medical staff really didn't do anything wrong.

And this all leads me to believe that Trent may not just show up at some point for the sake of money, but that a real reconciliation could occur.

If this take is correct, then kudos to Bruce Allen to presenting things in such terms to Trent to get him to really do some soul-searching to evaluate the situation with his head, and not his emotions. And Kudos to Trent for being open to the possibility that perhaps he was wrong.

Although i am a bit miffed at this entire situation, if Trent Trent comes back with his tail between his legs, I hope the team is not vindictive and everyone -players, coaches, and management, welcome him with open arms. And if Trent continues to perform like he has the past few years - we should negotiate a fair and reasonable extension next year.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

Everyone in the NFL understand the nature of the business. Players never harbor ill will towards one another for taking steps to get paid what they feel they deserve. There's a definite brotherhood there.

Jay and the coaching staff will be forward-thinking - they'll say to Trent thank God you're back now, I don't care how many games you missed or whatever your reasons were, it's water under the bridge, let's go win some games.

The business part is well understood by all, and as soon as he walks in he'll be welcomed fully and with open arms.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1228327]Even as a stud LT, they ain't going to win you 2 games just being in the line up.[/QUOTE]



Id say a hof lt keeping your quarterback upright could certainly make a 2 game difference. That being said this is based on Bruce Allen telling him he would fire people for him? Lol. If I were Trent I would have said “you”.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1228349]If this is true, and that is a big if, I think that is sad. It goes to show you just how much of a total snake Allen is. What total pond scum he is...[/QUOTE]



Exactly. He is such a moron. Whether this is true or not...

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1228349]If this is true, and that is a big if, I think that is sad. It goes to show you just how much of a total snake Allen is. What total pond scum he is...[/quote]

How, exactly does this make Allen a snake?

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1228386]How, exactly does this make Allen a snake?[/quote]

**News comes out that TW is unhappy with team medical staff**
Redskins fans: The team should FIRE EVERYONE to make Trent happy!!!!!!!!!

**News comes out that team asked Trent if they should fire someone in the medical staff**
Redskins fans: WTF?!?! What the HELL were they thinking?!?!?

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=Ruhskins;1228387]**News comes out that TW is unhappy with team medical staff**

Redskins fans: The team should FIRE EVERYONE to make Trent happy!!!!!!!!!



**News comes out that team asked Trent if they should fire someone in the medical staff**

Redskins fans: WTF?!?! What the HELL were they thinking?!?!?[/QUOTE]Perfectly captures the overreactions in this thread!

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1228387]**News comes out that TW is unhappy with team medical staff**
Redskins fans: The team should FIRE EVERYONE to make Trent happy!!!!!!!!!

**News comes out that team asked Trent if they should fire someone in the medical staff**
Redskins fans: WTF?!?! What the HELL were they thinking?!?!?[/quote]

Yeah this.

'Tell me who to fire and I'll fire them' is a line you deliver to someone you value extremely highly. It's an olive branch line. It's saying Trent you're so important to this organization I will do whatever it takes to make this right for you.

Looked at differently, it's also at the very same time saying this: if your beef is with the medical staff, I got you, I'll take care of it. Just tell me who did you wrong. Oh, you don't really want anybody to get fired? I guess it really was about money then, wasn't it. We'll talk about money next year, when you're approaching the last year of your contract, per team policy. See you in September, unless you want to lose game checks.

It has been handled right. There's a chance Trent's entire motivation here is to just get out of Washington period, a la Cousins. D Hall talks about Trent being interested in all pros and Super Bowl rings, and you have to be on a winning team to get those. It's a sign that Trent wants out, but he knows he has two years under contract and he can't do too much about it. So he'll bet on himself, a la Cousins.

But I still say this has been handled brilliantly. Trent will play in 2019 and 2020 to earn that $21M. Then Bruce (if he's still here) will tag him in 2021 and keep him under control in 2021 for a bargain of avg of top 5. Then Trent will be 34. This won't be losing Cousins at age 28. Bruce is playing this to get all of Trent's most useful prime years.

Credit where it's due, well done Bruce. At least as soon as he reports, that is.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

Meh...I don't know about brilliantly. If we had something substantial on the table to move Trent, then you would have to consider it. Why? The team by most estimation is a 10 loss team with or without. And Trent is in the last 2 years of a deal...injured a quarter of our games, with a big cap number. We pass on a first and possible more for two more years of Trent? Then the move would be to extend him at some point, right?

Was Trent ever gonna miss game checks...most likely not.

All in all, there was a lot to consider...and while I love Trent and hope to see him out there again, possibly the right move would be to get a high draft pick and more vs just 2 more years of TW.

I don't know if there is really a right answer at this point...always I lean towards the Skins putting the best product on the field...and right now that is with TW in a Skins uniform

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

He'll be starting for Dallas week

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

Bruce has not handled this brilliantly. Brilliant would have been avoiding it entirely. When Brian Mitchell is in against the Eagles throwing passes because Keenum and Haskins have been wrecked by the Eagles D line 9is Colt even suiting up?), we'll discuss how brilliant any of this was.

I am usually an optimist, but I really, really have a bad feeling about this weekend.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

Well come on, it's the Eagles, we'd have a bad feeling about this weekend with or without Trent. The Eagles are one of the favorites to make it to the SB from the NFC. We are... not.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

I would feel 100X better with Trent playing. Their QB is good, but not elite, nor are their receivers or RBs. Their D line is legit as is their O line, which of course makes the skill position players scarier. Their secondary is fair.

I think they will eat our line alive, and it will be hard to get things going, and however well our D plays, being on the field for 40 minutes will make it impossible to compete.

I do think the difference in having elite LT talent is very significant, which is why those guys get paid so much. And it probably means the difference between competing (even if we were to lose), and getting smoked.

My mother in law is an Eagles fan. I really, really wish Trent were playing. I am not sure how more emphatically I could say this, but imagine me grabbing your lapels and shouting to emphasize the point.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=Ruhskins;1228387]**News comes out that TW is unhappy with team medical staff**

Redskins fans: The team should FIRE EVERYONE to make Trent happy!!!!!!!!!



**News comes out that team asked Trent if they should fire someone in the medical staff**

Redskins fans: WTF?!?! What the HELL were they thinking?!?!?[/QUOTE]



More like ...
News comes out that TW is unhappy with the organization.
Redskins fans : what the fuck did Bruce Allen do now?

News comes out that Bruce Allen asked Trent who he could fire to make him happy?
Redskins fans : you can start with yourself.

Seems about right to me....

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1228386]How, exactly does this make Allen a snake?[/quote]

It's so wrong on so many levels. You have a President of a billion dollar company willing to fire someone in order to make a player, who's under contract come back and play. From the outside the only person to blame is TW cause he's too dumb to go to a doctor.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

I agree with you. This whole situation is tough - your team’s best player appears to want to be traded to perhaps the Pats, with the potential of a SB ring, or perhaps the Texans, where he scores a monster contract.

With the normal chaos surrounding this franchise it is a normal reaction to blame Bruce Allen, because he has been the center of player controversy’s before. The only thing that BA could have done different was at least to have fielded the trade calls from the Pats and Texans and see what they were offering. If there really was a 1st round draft pick or even better TWO 1st round draft picks, at least the team could have considered that. Having 1st round draft picks (including a high one for us) means that you can rebuild the OL with elite draft talent in 1-2 seasons, which is exactly what you want for your potential franchise QB.

I just wish the Redskins would acknowledge that this is a REBUILDING SEASON with a rookie QB. Planning for the future. It appears the Redskins were doing everything to keep TW and make him happy, including not even discussing trade options. We’ll see if this strategy gets Trent back. I’d much rather have Penn as a backup than Christian as a backup. If Penn goes down before TW comes back we are really in trouble.

If TW comes back he will be greeted with open arms by the team, especially by Keenum and Haskins. We need him on the OL badly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

Well it seems Trent Williams is in town and AP talked with him in person last night. Maybe that,s a good sign and top that with what Hall said yesterday maybe we do have hope.

[url]https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/adrian-peterson-reveals-hes-recently-talked-trent-williams-person[/url]

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Back2RFK;1228499]Well it seems Trent Williams is in town and AP talked with him in person last night. Maybe that,s a good sign and top that with what Hall said yesterday maybe we do have hope.

[url]https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/adrian-peterson-reveals-hes-recently-talked-trent-williams-person[/url][/quote]

I've been burned too many times, gonna have to wait until I see Trent on the practice field talking about "it's all love now, the past is the past" before I become convinced he's back.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=mooby;1228508]I've been burned too many times, gonna have to wait until I see Trent on the practice field talking about "it's all love now, the past is the past" before I become convinced he's back.[/quote]

No shit. The fact he is gonna not be here week 1 is bullshit. Just come in and do your fucking job. You signed a contract, honor it.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Chico23231;1228511]No shit. The fact he is gonna not be here week 1 is bullshit. Just come in and do your fucking job. You signed a contract, honor it.[/quote]

Do you say that because hes getting $M's or because you believe any employee should just turn up and honour his contract regardless? Whether he's in the right or not, he felt that his employer had miss treated him and withdrew his labour. Ultimately that's about the only right an employee has if a grievance procedure fails him or doesn't actually exist. Millionaire or not.

He's lost out financially and the team have suffered too, so there's no winner, but hopefully a new CBA includes a better way of dealing with these situations than holdouts etc. Has to be in everyone's interest, because its certainly not in the paying fans interest.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1228532]Do you say that because hes getting $M's or because you believe any employee should just turn up and honour his contract regardless? Whether he's in the right or not, he felt that his employer had miss treated him and withdrew his labour. Ultimately that's about the only right an employee has if a grievance procedure fails him or doesn't actually exist. Millionaire or not.

He's lost out financially and the team have suffered too, so there's no winner, but hopefully a new CBA includes a better way of dealing with these situations than holdouts etc. Has to be in everyone's interest, because its certainly not in the paying fans interest.[/quote]

I haven't heard anything at all of substance that he was treated incorrectly by the Skins. There is a grievance process with the NFLPA, but they have not stepped in. So yes, whether you make $10/hour, or $1000000/hour. IF there is not a substantial basis for a grievance, you should be expected to honor a signed contract. That is a bedrock principle of our economy. The unions are supposed to exist to make sure that the general contracts are rational and look out for employee interests. The fact that the NFLPA screwed up in the last negotiations shouldn't break the contracts Players have signed. If you want guaranteed contracts then fight for them as a union when the CBA comes up for negotiations. If you want a way to reset contract value within the term of the contract then fight for that in the upcoming battle.

But TW does have a contract, with 2 years left, and barring substantial wrong doings by the team he should honor that.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1228533]But TW does have a contract, with 2 years left, and barring substantial wrong doings by the team he should honor that.[/quote]

I invite you to join the rest of us in the 21st Century. That kind of steadfast ethics no longer exists.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

I get sentiment and the context, and probably as a Brit and seeing the way it works differently with our game of football (indeed how it works globally), I have a different slant. I don't know the detail with TW (who does?), so I'm coming from the perspective of labour relations not the NFL. I simply see a guy who has a grievance that he does not feel was addressed by the team. I don't know if either side handled in a thoroughly proper manner and I don't think either did. I just think there has to be a basis to this (smoke=fire) and a better way of handling it than appears to have happened.

I just feel the line 'You signed a contract, honor it' or variations thereof is a little too hard nosed especially in todays world. If he withdraws his labour, he doesn't get paid, just like anyone going on strike. He has to decide if it's worth the financial loss or not, not us. And I sense he's realising it isn't.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

I see a guy who used a medical issue as a weapon to bash the team and force a trade. The more we found out about the medical issue...the more it came to light the Skins were not negligent in the handling of the issue.

Now TW may "feel" like they did...but "facts" state they weren't. Facts > Feelings

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1228540]I get sentiment and the context, and probably as a Brit and seeing the way it works differently with our game of football (indeed how it works globally), I have a different slant. I don't know the detail with TW (who does?), so I'm coming from the perspective of labour relations not the NFL. I simply see a guy who has a grievance that he does not feel was addressed by the team. I don't know if either side handled in a thoroughly proper manner and I don't think either did. I just think there has to be a basis to this (smoke=fire) and a better way of handling it than appears to have happened.

I just feel the line 'You signed a contract, honor it' or variations thereof is a little too hard nosed especially in todays world. If he withdraws his labour, he doesn't get paid, just like anyone going on strike. He has to decide if it's worth the financial loss or not, not us. And I sense he's realising it isn't.[/quote]

I am coming from outside the NFL world too though. When a union is set up, they are supposed to speak for the members. How can a company deal in good faith with a union, if the members don't abide by the agreed upon terms.

The fact that TW has not filed a lawsuit, an NFLPA grievance, an request to sanction the Redskins, says to me that he doesn't have a factual basis to withhold his services. Antonio Brown may have been an idiot about his helmet, but he did file grievances with the NFL. TW is not in a contract dispute with the Skins, he simply doesn't want to honor his contract. That's not good policy for any Labor Relations situation, in any country that abides in market principles.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=Chico23231;1228543]I see a guy who used a medical issue as a weapon to bash the team and force a trade. The more we found out about the medical issue...the more it came to light the Skins were not negligent in the handling of the issue.

Now TW may "feel" like they did...but "facts" state they weren't. Facts > Feelings[/quote]



9/6/2019 .............we agree. ...........holy shit!

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1228545]I am coming from outside the NFL world too though. When a union is set up, they are supposed to speak for the members. How can a company deal in good faith with a union, if the members don't abide by the agreed upon terms.

[B]The fact that TW has not filed a lawsuit, an NFLPA grievance, an request to sanction the Redskins, says to me that he doesn't have a factual basis to withhold his services. [/B]Antonio Brown may have been an idiot about his helmet, but he did file grievances with the NFL. TW is not in a contract dispute with the Skins, he simply doesn't want to honor his contract. That's not good policy for any Labor Relations situation, in any country that abides in market principles.[/quote]

Excellent point - and one which has not been brought up by any reporter.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1228545]I am coming from outside the NFL world too though. When a union is set up, they are supposed to speak for the members. How can a company deal in good faith with a union, if the members don't abide by the agreed upon terms.

The fact that TW has not filed a lawsuit, an NFLPA grievance, an request to sanction the Redskins, says to me that he doesn't have a factual basis to withhold his services. Antonio Brown may have been an idiot about his helmet, but he did file grievances with the NFL. TW is not in a contract dispute with the Skins, he simply doesn't want to honor his contract. That's not good policy for any Labor Relations situation, in any country that abides in market principles.[/quote]

Agree. The fundamental issue I think, like Kirk Cousins, is he doesn't want to be a Redskin any longer and is doing what he can to wriggle his way free.

It won't work as well as it did for Cousins. Trent is 31 and will be 33 when his contract ends. Skins can easily tag him for that age 33 season.

They could consider tagging him again for the age 34 season, and depending on if he's still playing at a pro bowl level, the 20% raise on the previous year's salary would probably still be worth it.

He's a lot more stuck than Cousins was. He either grins and bears it, or he pitches a complete fit. We'll see.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

I still think he will fail drug test...and it was always about that.. we’ve been burned twice before!

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[QUOTE=rocnrik;1228611]I still think he will fail drug test...and it was always about that.. we’ve been burned twice before![/QUOTE]If it was a drug test issue, then none of this would have been an issue. The league would have announced the suspension and no one would be offering anything.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1228557]Excellent point - and one which has not been brought up by any reporter.[/quote]

That's probably my problem; I don't get the same kind of news you guys do so I'm going by what's been published. :|
I would agree that if he hasn't followed any process at all then this does sound like he's trying to get out of his contract/Washington.

Re: Trent Williams holding out for new deal
 

Let’s take bets that Washington’s number 1 pick next year will be a stud LT


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk