Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1277344]It would take a lot more than Payne to trade for Carr.

Mariota does have an injury history. It doesn't help when you are sacked 155 times in 5 years.

Like I said, I don't particularly like the idea, but if they are going to make this move, I'd rather part with a player that we probably aren't going to be able to retain in two years, than part with a pick in the first 3 rounds.[/QUOTE]


I can see that aspect too. My thing is, why not just draft Mac Jones at 19 or what if Lance falls to like 16 or 17? Trade up a few spots to get him. We already know what Mariota is and his ceiling. He’s a good QB when his team is running the ball well but if he’s asked to make throws in crunch time, he hasn’t been able to do that. To me I’d rather just roll with Heineke

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1277345]I can see that aspect too. My thing is, why not just draft Mac Jones at 19 or what if Lance falls to like 16 or 17? Trade up a few spots to get him. We already know what Mariota is and his ceiling. He’s a good QB when his team is running the ball well but if he’s asked to make throws in crunch time, he hasn’t been able to do that. [b]To me I’d rather just roll with Heineke[/b][/quote]

There ya go that's the spirit

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1277345]I can see that aspect too. My thing is, why not just draft Mac Jones at 19 or what if Lance falls to like 16 or 17? Trade up a few spots to get him. We already know what Mariota is and his ceiling. He’s a good QB when his team is running the ball well but if he’s asked to make throws in crunch time, he hasn’t been able to do that. To me I’d rather just roll with Heineke[/quote]

I've been mostly against trading for a QB, unless he is a tier 1 guy - at the right price. I would have traded a 1st & 3rd for Stafford, and would do the same for Carr. I'd probably trade more than that for Watson, but I'm not really interested in trading for a backup like Mariota. Would rather sign someone in free agency.

I do think something has to be done before the draft though, because you don't know how that is going to play out. That doesn't mean you can't also draft a QB if the opportunity arises. #19 is too high for Mac Jones in my opinion. If Fields or Lance falls into the teens, I wouldn't be opposed to them trading up a few spots, if they think he's their guy. It's not likely though with all the teams looking to address the QB position this offseason. I think it's probably more likely that if they draft a QB, it's in rounds 3-5 (Newman, Mond...).

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

Why would anyone consider Mariota? He has been a failure everywhere he has gone.

I understand that the quarterback is incredibly import. All you have to do is look at where New England finished without Brady and where Tampa finished with him. Then look at Dallas without Bryant. But I am against giving up the future for a back up quarterback who will get injured or benched half way through the season. Watson or Wilson would be on my radar but not the collection of backup quarterbacks that are being offered.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

I don't really know much about Mariota, saw him in one Oakland game and he looked good. Since stats can be made to say anything here is a comparison of him and RW from profootball reference.[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210213/df7fcc726b0dc4181b0abea7cd96b4f5.jpg[/IMG]

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Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

At roughly 15 million/year and a lower draft pick he seems like a good move if RR wants to go with a real qb competition to win the job.

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Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=oldfan;1277348]Why would anyone consider Mariota? He has been a failure everywhere he has gone.

I understand that the quarterback is incredibly import. All you have to do is look at where New England finished without Brady and where Tampa finished with him. Then look at Dallas without Bryant. But I am against giving up the future for a back up quarterback who will get injured or benched half way through the season. Watson or Wilson would be on my radar but not the collection of backup quarterbacks that are being offered.[/quote]


I'm not sure I would call him a failure. Maybe he has yet to live up to the high expectations, being the #2 overall selection. He's had success though. He has been a probowler and he has won a playoff game. Like Skinzwin said, maybe he just needs to be in a system that more suits his style.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1277342][B]He’s due to make $20M next year[/B], they better reconstruct that shit. I’m not too high on this move either. Would much rather have Carr but apparently he’s not getting moved[/quote]

Looks like it is $10.625M.

[url]https://overthecap.com/player/marcus-mariota/3850/[/url]

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1277326]That wouldn't bother me. We're making progress in building a contender and I like the approach that RR and his staff have taken so far. I'd rather not use up our draft picks or our cap space this year. Also, I am totally against trading an excellent young player as part of a deal for a QB. I wish the talk of trading Montez Sweat would end now.[B] I'm fine with drafting a QB as long as it's not a reach or bringing in a reasonably priced FA QB to compete with the ones we already have on the roster[/B].[/quote]

I'm with you on that. Don't give up the 3 to 5 years military style culture change process to chase SBs based on a false sense of being close. Keep building the conditions of [I]sustained success[/I].

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1277339]Well, we're deepest on the D-line, so probably D Payne. I don't really like that idea, [B]but I like it better than trading a pick from the first three rounds[/B].[/quote]

Really ? What's the guarantee of getting a player of Payne's quality in the first three rounds ? I'd rather keep our young talented players. Especially if it's to get a QB we're not sure gives us a significant upside over what we already have.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1277354]Really ? What's the guarantee of getting a player of Payne's quality in the first three rounds ? I'd rather keep our young talented players. Especially if it's to get a QB we're not sure gives us a significant upside over what we already have.[/quote]

Yes, really.

There is no guarantee.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1277355]Yes, really.

There is no guarantee.[/quote]

Well, what would be your reasoning behind it ? You think we won't be able to resign Payne anyway?

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1277356]Well, what would be your reasoning behind it ? You think we won't be able to resign Payne anyway?[/quote]

Basically. I think it's unlikely that Payne, Allen, Ioannidis, Settle, and Sweat are all on this team in 2023. You can't pay them all.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

I don't want to trade good players that have 2+ years on their contract. Even if we can't re-sign them, we still get 2 more years of production that most likely can't be equally re-produced elsewhere.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1277358]I don't want to trade good players that have 2+ years on their contract. Even if we can't re-sign them, we still get 2 more years of production that most likely can't be equally re-produced elsewhere.[/quote]

Well, I'd be in favor of extending Payne now, but to be fair to Chief's point, [URL="https://overthecap.com/player/daron-payne/6898/"]Payne only has 1 year left[/URL] (+ a 5th option I guess ? can't see it anywhere though...)

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1277359]Well, I'd be in favor of extending Payne now, but to be fair to Chief's point, [URL="https://overthecap.com/player/daron-payne/6898/"]Payne only has 1 year left.[/URL][/quote]

Does that include the 5th year option we have? I think with that he has 2 left. And I'm assuming it's a lock we take the option.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1277360]Does that include the 5th year option we have? I think with that he has 2 left. And I'm assuming it's a lock we take the option.[/quote]

Yeah I edited my previous comment, I'd guess there's a 5th year option but can't find mention of it anywhere. OTC and spotrac usually reference those...

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1277361]Yeah I edited my previous comment, I'd guess there's a 5th year option but can't find mention of it anywhere. OTC and spotrac usually reference those...[/quote]

Hmm. Not sure as I don't use those sites. Maybe they don't include it until the option is actually officially exercised?

That's the only thing I can think of. All 1st round picks are 4 years with a 5th year team option.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1277358]I don't want to trade good players that have 2+ years on their contract. Even if we can't re-sign them, we still get 2 more years of production that most likely can't be equally re-produced elsewhere.[/quote]

I don't either.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

Fuck no to Mariota

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[url]https://sports.yahoo.com/marcus-mariota-washington-football-team-203555002.html[/url]

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1277365][url]https://sports.yahoo.com/marcus-mariota-washington-football-team-203555002.html[/url][/quote]

Salary doubles if we trade for him, damn, that's a huge deal. Mariota at 10 million I'd be ok with, 20 million would make it a big no for me. Would definitely need a new contract.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

I wonder what is Alex Smith waiting on. Seems like if he was retiring he could have announced that. ( As a side note, the aame could be said for Drew Brees)

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Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[QUOTE=Number44;1277352]Looks like it is $10.625M.

[url]https://overthecap.com/player/marcus-mariota/3850/[/url][/QUOTE]


Add an extra 10M for starting bonus Lombardi reported

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

Depending on the compensation to the Raiders, I'm fine with trading for Mariota. He is a fit for our offense and he has a ton of physical talent. It is quite possible that he has matured and improved as an NFL QB. I trust our player personnel staff to determine if he is now ready to lead an NFL team.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1277345]I can see that aspect too. My thing is, why not just draft Mac Jones at 19 or what if Lance falls to like 16 or 17? Trade up a few spots to get him. We already know what Mariota is and his ceiling. He’s a good QB when his team is running the ball well but if he’s asked to make throws in crunch time, he hasn’t been able to do that. To me I’d rather just roll with Heineke[/quote]

Or just not trade up at all.
Mariota was drafted high, but if you had to regrade him today, he's not even a 2nd round pick. Why overpay for Mariota when you can draft a player nearly as good and have him 4 years on cheap rookie deal.
I'm fine with Hein at QB as well, and take patient approach.
We have too many holes and too little depth to be trading up and reaching for QBs. Half of draft picks bust with even a good GM. This doesn't mean you get scared and don't draft, it means you amass lots of picks and get more chances at the roulette wheel. That doesn't happen trading up. Probably take a 3rd round pick to move up 2 spots in 1st round. Minimum. Why not just draft a player with that pick.
All this talk of trading for people or signing retread FAs.
Draft a QB, without trading up.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1277370]Depending on the compensation to the Raiders, I'm fine with trading for Mariota. He is a fit for our offense and he has a ton of physical talent. It is quite possible that he has matured and improved as an NFL QB. I trust our player personnel staff to determine if he is now ready to lead an NFL team.[/quote]

If he had matured as a QB, he wouldn't be on the bench behind a very above average, but far from great, QB in Carr. Mariota looks great on paper but doesn't have the moxy when the pressure is on and the chips are down.

Enough of the retreads.
Draft a QB. Without trading up.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1277367]I wonder what is Alex Smith waiting on. Seems like if he was retiring he could have announced that. ( As a side note, the aame could be said for Drew Brees)

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God forbid the guy goes on vacation for a month and just chills before dealing with all that. LOL. If he doesn't retire we have to cut him. Money saved is almost cost of Scherff one year.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1277351]I'm not sure I would call him a failure. Maybe he has yet to live up to the high expectations, being the #2 overall selection. He's had success though. He has been a probowler and he has won a playoff game. Like Skinzwin said, maybe he just needs to be in a system that more suits his style.[/quote]

When you are drafted #2 overall and the team that drafted you moves on and you are a backup on a team without a top-flight franchise QB, that is failure.

If he were a FA, take a flier. But he isn't.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

Raiders: Marcus Mariota trade packages for the Washington Football Team
[url]https://justblogbaby.com/2021/02/13/raiders-marcus-mariota-trade-wft/amp/2/[/url]

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1277380]Raiders: Marcus Mariota trade packages for the Washington Football Team

[url]https://justblogbaby.com/2021/02/13/raiders-marcus-mariota-trade-wft/amp/2/[/url][/QUOTE]Trade packages 1 or 2 would be ok, no way should we trade Matt I.

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Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1277382]Trade packages 1 or 2 would be ok, no way should we trade Matt I.

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He’s hurt a lot. I’m fine with letting him go

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

Nice find Chief! I'll take Door #2 Monte. You leave my boy Matty alone Okie.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

Why would you trade Matt for a 5th round pick?

WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

I think the FA QB route is too insanely expensive in terms of draft picks traded AND the FA money to get him. Watson or Wilson will be so Uber-expensive it makes my eyes water.

We can fix some of our biggest team holes with FA. FA gets you a proven player at the level you want- good, very good, excellent and outstanding. I think Rivera will get his excellent to outstanding WR in FA. ALSO, in FA - A second, lower grade WR for depth. A very good middle LB to solidify that position. Also some of the cap money will go to Scherff!

We move up in the draft by trading draft picks and maybe even one our DL surplus. Go for a Qb draft pick below the top two or three.
Then that QB draft pick competes with Heinicke. We use the lower draft picks left for OL, CB, S.

Top five defense with a much improved O and this team will be very competitive!!


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Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1277382]Trade packages 1 or 2 would be ok, no way should we trade Matt I.

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Agree with this ...

Especially for Mariota.

The only D-Linemen I would consider parting with is Allen, and only because he's on his final year AND we have Matt I and Tim Settle ... but it would take a much better player than Mariota to trade him.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=Number44;1277390]Why would you trade Matt for a 5th round pick?[/quote]

Why would you make any of the ridiculous trades proposed on this board?

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=Warthog;1277391]I think the FA QB route is too insanely expensive in terms of draft picks traded AND the FA money to get him. Watson or Wilson will be so Uber-expensive it makes my eyes water.

We can fix some of our biggest team holes with FA. FA gets you a proven player at the level you want- good, very good, excellent and outstanding. I think Rivera will get his excellent to outstanding WR in FA. ALSO, in FA - A second, lower grade WR for depth. A very good middle LB to solidify that position. Also some of the cap money will go to Scherff!

We move up in the draft by trading draft picks and maybe even one our DL surplus. Go for a Qb draft pick below the top two or three.
Then that QB draft pick competes with Heinicke. We use the lower draft picks left for OL, CB, S.

Top five defense with a much improved O and this team will be very competitive!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

No to trading up and pissing away draft picks, and no to pissing away the core of the future that we obtained with draft picks. Stand pat or trade down and draft a QB you like later, or take one at 19 if falls. Take the long term view. Only trades we should be making are down for more picks, picks in future drafts especially.

We don't have as much money as everyone thinks in FA, unless we structure deals to mortgage future. I agree with WR, but no other big signings except maybe at LB. The problem with FA is that teams usually don't let their best players walk and you usually MASSIVELY overpay, while getting a player or two fine, you don't build your team with FA. At least half of big name FAs NEVER produce even remotely close to their pay, it is as big a crapshoot as the draft except for the absolute elite players. There is also the risk that a player flourishing on another team does not flourish here, especially those like Godwin surrounded by talent that makes life way easier for them. When you resign your own homegrown talent, that risk is minimized.

I think I would let Scherff walk. RG too low leverage a position to tie up that much money, and he is not durable. Would depend on the price. I don't love anyone on our OL, our only elite OL at the least important position on entire OL. We have some solid depth and developmental guys, but I like a 3rd round G starting for $14M a year less a LOT better even with some drop off.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=Scalper;1277410]No to trading up and pissing away draft picks, and no to pissing away the core of the future that we obtained with draft picks. Stand pat or trade down and draft a QB you like later, or take one at 19 if falls. Take the long term view. Only trades we should be making are down for more picks, picks in future drafts especially.

We don't have as much money as everyone thinks in FA, unless we structure deals to mortgage future. I agree with WR, but no other big signings except maybe at LB. The problem with FA is that teams usually don't let their best players walk and you usually MASSIVELY overpay, while getting a player or two fine, you don't build your team with FA. At least half of big name FAs NEVER produce even remotely close to their pay, it is as big a crapshoot as the draft except for the absolute elite players. There is also the risk that a player flourishing on another team does not flourish here, especially those like Godwin surrounded by talent that makes life way easier for them. When you resign your own homegrown talent, that risk is minimized.

I think I would let Scherff walk. RG too low leverage a position to tie up that much money, and he is not durable. Would depend on the price. I don't love anyone on our OL, our only elite OL at the least important position on entire OL. We have some solid depth and developmental guys, but I like a 3rd round G starting for $14M a year less a LOT better even with some drop off.[/quote]

You have to remember, and I have seen a couple of posts from others that don't realise this, that the first year cap hit is routinely a half of the value of the APY that the FA signs for. Scherrf will probably get $15m APY, but his first year cap hit would be $7.5m. This is routine in previous years and it is likely that this year some teams will go further and have a <50% cap hit in the first year given the salary cap issues the league is dealing with. Look at Roulliers new deal on OTC, $10m APY, $4.5m cap hit this year. In this case you could save cap space by extending Jonathon Allen now and take his $10m cap hit down to under $7.5m this year.

[EDIT] My point being, if it wasn't clear, that the cap space we have will stretch much further than it looks like it will.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1277342]He’s due to make $20M next year, they better reconstruct that shit. I’m not too high on this move either. Would much rather have Carr but apparently he’s not getting moved[/quote]

NM. I should've read the thread first.