Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1359416]So the guy who coached Johnny Manziel, Kyler Murray, and Caleb Williams is not looking for a dual threat quarterback ? Im calling BS on that.

Ill also say, again, that Jayden Daniels isn’t a run first quarterback. He uses his legs to keep plays alive and is usually looking to throw downfield, and does so accurately.[/quote]

I’m sorry sir, I respectfully disagree.
Daniels is a run first QB, pure and simple. He can throw, and can deliver at a high, level. But, most definitely is a run first, 1 read and tuck it QB.
I have said it before, go watch his first season at LSU, super raw passer, uncomfortable in new scheme and therefore trusts his running ability over timing/reading the field. Over his 2 year maturation at LSU he grows as a passer, and in his abilities. Do not mistake that maturation that he is a now a pocket passer going through 3 or 4 deep on the route tree. It’s simply not who he is. Decisive at the point of attack, and 4 out of 5 times it’s 1 read and tuck it.

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

Drake Maye is a better mobile QB than most realize. Kid is no snail out there.

I still say JD5 is the better choice but if Kilff and company want Maye I’m all in on that too


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Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[QUOTE=Redskin Jim;1359423]I’m sorry sir, I respectfully disagree.
Daniels is a run first QB, pure and simple. He can throw, and can deliver at a high, level. But, most definitely is a run first, 1 read and tuck it QB.
I have said it before, go watch his first season at LSU, super raw passer, uncomfortable in new scheme and therefore trusts his running ability over timing/reading the field. Over his 2 year maturation at LSU he grows as a passer, and in his abilities. Do not mistake that maturation that he is a now a pocket passer going through 3 or 4 deep on the route tree. It’s simply not who he is. Decisive at the point of attack, and 4 out of 5 times it’s 1 read and tuck it.[/QUOTE]


Have you watched his film from this season? He’s changed so much it’s actually amazing


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Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1359426]Have you watched his film from this season? He’s changed so much it’s actually amazing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

Yes, I have watched every game at LSU (LSU fan). I do agree, it was amazing to watch his growth. When he played his first game at LSU, (against Florida St), I said to myself, this guy is not a QB, just a great athlete out there, that can’t throw very well.
He certainly became a better passer in terms of both mechanics, and comfort in the system to what eventually earned him the Heisman last year.

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[quote=Redskin Jim;1359429]Yes, I have watched every game at LSU (LSU fan). I do agree, it was amazing to watch his growth. When he played his first game at LSU, (against Florida St), I said to myself, this guy is not a QB, just a great athlete out there, that can’t throw very well.
He certainly became a better passer in terms of both mechanics, and comfort in the system to what eventually earned him the Heisman last year.[/quote]

My biggest concern with him is his frame.. He's so damn skinny. Like a Bryce Young but taller..

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1359430]My biggest concern with him is his frame.. He's so damn skinny. Like a Bryce Young but taller..[/quote]

Yes, he’s listed at 210, but almost certainly inflated. I’m not sure he’s even over 200. Of course, as it’s been said before, with weight training and nutrition he could put on some bulk. He will most certainly need it with his style of play and hopefully will receive major upgrades to the offensive line to protect him.

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

maye has a better arm and much more bigger upside, plus maye is mobile not like daniels but good enough ,maye should be the choice

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1359416]So the guy who coached Johnny Manziel, Kyler Murray, and Caleb Williams is not looking for a dual threat quarterback ? Im calling BS on that.

Ill also say, again, that Jayden Daniels isn’t a run first quarterback. He uses his legs to keep plays alive and is usually looking to throw downfield, and does so accurately.[/quote]

and Maye is no stature either . . . Maye can run pretty good himself, not quite Daniels, but he also has better pocket presence than Daniels. Combine numbers will be interesting.

I'd be good with any of the top 3 . . .

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

As long as they don't something stupid like trade up to #1, I'm fine with any of them.

My personal preference is Maye, Williams, Daniles in that order.

2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[QUOTE=Redskin Jim;1359423]I’m sorry sir, I respectfully disagree.
Daniels is a run first QB, pure and simple. He can throw, and can deliver at a high, level. But, most definitely is a run first, 1 read and tuck it QB.
I have said it before, go watch his first season at LSU, super raw passer, uncomfortable in new scheme and therefore trusts his running ability over timing/reading the field. Over his 2 year maturation at LSU he grows as a passer, and in his abilities. Do not mistake that maturation that he is a now a pocket passer going through 3 or 4 deep on the route tree. It’s simply not who he is. Decisive at the point of attack, and 4 out of 5 times it’s 1 read and tuck it.[/QUOTE]


[url]https://markbullock.substack.com/p/draft-profile-lsu-qb-jayden-daniels[/url]

[url]https://www.profootballnetwork.com/jayden-daniels-draft-scouting-2024/[/url]

I think Daniels has such amazing speed and run capabilities that it would appear he is not going through his progressions but he does, Even while he is moving. Run first to me is a guy that trusts his legs more than his arm and field vision. This guy has it all.

I will be fine with any of the three though.

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[QUOTE=simbosargos75;1359435]As long as they don't something stupid like trade up to #1, I'm fine with any of them.

My personal preference is Maye, Williams, Daniles in that order.[/QUOTE]


I have the exact same preference only backwards. Lol.

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

The bottom line is the media has basically shoved down our throats that Caleb, Daniels and Maye are the best guys. It won't turn out that way cause 1 or 2 of them will probably bust.

I still think Penix is better than all these guys for the NFL game. Almost 5,000 yards last year and the accuracy on the deep ball should not be ignored. That kid is going to go to a decent good team like Atlanta or Denver and could start right away.

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1359438]The bottom line is the media has basically shoved down our throats that Caleb, Daniels and Maye are the best guys. It won't turn out that way cause 1 or 2 of them will probably bust.

I still think Penix is better than all these guys for the NFL game. Almost 5,000 yards last year and the accuracy on the deep ball should not be ignored. That kid is going to go to a decent good team like Atlanta or Denver and could start right away.[/quote]

Penix throws like a 25 year old Joe Montana, He also has the body of 65 year old Joe Montana.

Penix is the next Reggie Bush, he will be very good, When healthy*.

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

🔥I’ve (Daniel Kelly) now evaluated USC quarterback (QB) Caleb Williams in every snap he took in 2022 and 2023 and I’ve written approximately 11,850 words reflecting on him in articles.

The takeaway: Williams is too undisciplined, moody, and immature to ever realize his potential.

Yes, he is loaded with God-given raw arm strength, and elite ability to create and extend (which is the draw to him), but he’s underdeveloped in the finer points of the position. His skillset doesn’t translate well to the next level ⎯the NFL game is about quick time to throw, precise downfield ball placement, and ball security.

The only box he checks is ball security improving from 35 pass breakups (2.5 avg.) in 2022 to 15 in 2023 (1.25 avg.).

2023 went sideways
Williams won the 2022 Heisman Trophy, but it amounted to a second-round grade watching him through my ‘NFL-colored glasses.’ He tended to hold the ball too long and to lock in with receivers.

The first three games of 2023 (San Jose State, Nevada, and Stanford) gave me optimism he had improved, but then ASU happened. He was excellent against Colorado but mediocre against the University of Arizona.

And then things went off the rails.

The true litmus test would be against ranked competition.

What happened?

USC faced Notre Dame, Utah, CAL, Washington, Oregon, and UCLA and dropped five out of six and Williams’ became unglued.

Concerns
1. Downward trajectory ⎯Williams regressed in 2023.

2. NFL Expectations ⎯will be crazy high. The expectations alone will cause him to be a bust.

3. Time to throw ⎯Pro Football Focus recorded Williams at 3.44 seconds in 2022 and 3.21 seconds in 2023. Williams was sacked 63 times (2022-2023). Only seven NFL QBs are over 3 seconds (NEXT GEN STATS). Bears’ QB Justin Fields was the slowest (3.23 seconds). Fields was sacked 99 times (2022-2023).

4. Glorifed system QB ⎯I did an independent study this season, Williams’ best completion percentages came throwing 44-62% short passes. His three worst games (55.9%-57.5%) were fewer short passes.

5. Not a big game QB ⎯Williams was 2-9 against ranked teams the past two seasons.

6. Fumbles ⎯ 32 fumbles in 36 games.

7. Post-game conduct ⎯refused to shake hands with Utah and refused to talk to reporters after the UCLA loss.

8. Nature ⎯Wants to get out of structure as a passer and get reckless as a runner (increased injury risk). He reverts to locking in with receivers. Additionally, he talked down about a fan calling him a “sheep,” and he does unpredictable and uncensored things ranging from painting obscenities on his fingernails to jumping into the stands and crying in his mother’s arms.

9. Inexperienced dealing with adversity ⎯According to Sports Illustrated (Nov. 28, 2023) Williams said, “I’ve never been in this situation, where I’m 7–5 and there are no playoff hopes at the end of the season. I’m dealing with it emotionally, dealing with it spiritually and physically. ”

10. Holiday Bowl ⎯USC bounced right back (same offensive line and defense) against No. 15 Louisville with QB Miller Moss who was making his first career start and he matched Williams’ USC high of six touchdown passes in a game. 💥

Windycityendzone.football Windycityendzone Windy City End Zone - A Chicago Bears Fan Group The Windy City End Zone Show Chicago Bears #bears #BearNation #BearsNation #NFL #chicago #BearDown

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

Someone had to fuck around and go 1st; Williams to the Commanders w/ no trade down. It's unlikely, but it's not absolutely insane. He has the Bears taking Maye at No. 1.

[url]https://www.profootballnetwork.com/josiah-caswell-2024-nfl-mock-draft-february/[/url]

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1359425]Drake Maye is a better mobile QB than most realize. Kid is no snail out there.

I still say JD5 is the better choice but if Kilff and company want Maye I’m all in on that too

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

Drake Maye is a really good athlete and he moves very well. J.D. is an elite athlete, and he moves like an elite athlete.

Daniels is definitely the better athlete. I think he's the better overall QB too, but that could be up for debate. Based on pure athletic ability, not too many like Daniels ever. Not a slight on Maye. He can definitely move too.

I want Daniels. But I want Maye more than anyone else after Daniels. So really, as long as we pick 1 of the 2, I'm gonna be chugging kool-aid like a lunatic.

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

It looks like Chicago will trade Fields. To me, that is a strong indicator that they want Caleb Williams. So it's probably going to be between Daniels and Maye for us. They both seem to be excellent prospects so I'd say we're in good shape.

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1359451]Someone had to fuck around and go 1st; Williams to the Commanders w/ no trade down. It's unlikely, but it's not absolutely insane. He has the Bears taking Maye at No. 1.

[url]https://www.profootballnetwork.com/josiah-caswell-2024-nfl-mock-draft-february/[/url][/quote]

Maye has been closing the gap for a while now. Him going #1 overall would not shock me.

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

When was the last time, if ever, that the top 3 qbs went 1 2 3, AND none of the 3 bust? my guess is never, so i think that the probability of us getting a bust is historically greater than 60%. If this staff gets it right, I will be in hog heaven. hell i might even yell "Let's go Commando!"

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Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1359456]When was the last time, if ever, that the top 3 qbs went 1 2 3, AND none of the 3 bust? my guess is never, so i think that the probability of us getting a bust is historically greater than 60%. If this staff gets it right, I will be in hog heaven. hell i might even yell "Let's go Commando!"

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk[/quote]

The Chase young draft, 4 QB went in the first and none have been bust

Burrow 1
Tua 5
Herbert 6
Love 26

The “safest” picks in the top 5 were all busts: Young, Okudah

The top tackle Andrew Thomas has been good at times but inconsistent. That’s definitely not living up to top 5 status

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1359454]It looks like Chicago will trade Fields. To me, that is a strong indicator that they want Caleb Williams. So it's probably going to be between Daniels and Maye for us. They both seem to be excellent prospects so I'd say we're in good shape.[/quote]

Its the wrost kept "secret" everyone knows its happening

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

scenario:

trade with cardinals:
we get
Murray
#4 overall
this year cardinals 2nd
conditional 2025 2nd {on Murray playing time)

cards get #2 overall

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Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

No, just no. Murray is not a franchise QB, has issues and would not be good value. If they are going to get a new QB they have to roll the dice on the draft. Bringing in a re-tread would be a Rivera type move.

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[QUOTE=AnonEmouse;1359468]No, just no. Murray is not a franchise QB, has issues and would not be good value. If they are going to get a new QB they have to roll the dice on the draft. Bringing in a re-tread would be a Rivera type move.[/QUOTE]at 4 you could still take a qb, or bundle chicago and cards 2nds to move back up and grab one, while using #4 on the best Lt on the team's draft board. And could pursue trades for Howell.

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Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1359458]The Chase young draft, 4 QB went in the first and none have been bust

Burrow 1
Tua 5
Herbert 6
Love 26

The “safest” picks in the top 5 were all busts: Young, Okudah

The top tackle Andrew Thomas has been good at times but inconsistent. That’s definitely not living up to top 5 status[/quote]

Yeah, that was a good year for QBs - an outlier though. Can't say the same for 2018, 2019, 2021, 2022, or 2023 though.

Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Bryce Young, Anthony Richardson - all picked in the top 10. Then there's other 1st rounders like Dwayne Haskins, Mac Jones, Kenny Pickett, even Justin Fields

I'm crossing my fingers and toes - hoping we end up with a dude, but honestly, it's probably not even 50/50 that the top of this draft ends up like:

Burrow/Tagovaiola/Herbert

as opposed to

Lawrence/Wilson/Lance

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

Can I ask a question of the more knowledgeable fans here - What are the causes that make picking a quarterback so much more of a crap shoot then most other positions. I mean I get that in there are some intangibles that you can't tell, but all these quarterbacks that go in the top 10 that are busts or at least not superstars Have been playing this game their whole life from the time they were eight or nine 10 through college there's lots of film there's lots of ways to investigate it . Why is it so hard to find the good one ?

Or what is it about the NFL that makes being a good one so much harder than college etc.

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Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1359471]Can I ask a question of the more knowledgeable fans here - What are the causes that make picking a quarterback so much more of a crap shoot then most other positions. I mean I get that in there are some intangibles that you can't tell, but all these quarterbacks that go in the top 10 that are busts or at least not superstars Have been playing this game their whole life from the time they were eight or nine 10 through college there's lots of film there's lots of ways to investigate it . Why is it so hard to find the good one ?

Or what is it about the NFL that makes being a good one so much harder than college etc.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk[/quote]

i honestly think the best talent goes to some of the worst franchises and these boys just don't develop there

Football is the ultimate team sport, there are so many factors in order to make your QB look good

Imagine Bryce Young in SF

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

Yeah, I agree with mredskins. Look at Lawrence in Jags - he didn't play well in his first year with Meyers, and he improved a lot when Pederson became the head coach.

Even Shanahan likes Darnold enough to get rid his 1st round prize Lance, despite the fact that Darnold wasn't good with Jets and Panthers.

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

Coaching is a lot of it, but also college level schemes and competition can make QB's look better than they are. At the NFL level they have to be able to read D's comprehensively and go beyond single read or option schemes. Just look at that video of Stroud breaking down his pre-snap reads and you realise how much football smarts the kid has. It's teh same reason the like of Brady, Cousins and Purdy belied their draft position. Their physical attributes are just one half of the puzzle. Their brain is the other. And bad coaching can mess up the latter just as easily as physical injury can mess up the former.

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

Not to mention they are going against the most elite of the elite. There are many very good and elite players in College, but the NFL is nothing but that.

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1359471]Can I ask a question of the more knowledgeable fans here - What are the causes that make picking a quarterback so much more of a crap shoot then most other positions. I mean I get that in there are some intangibles that you can't tell, but all these quarterbacks that go in the top 10 that are busts or at least not superstars Have been playing this game their whole life from the time they were eight or nine 10 through college there's lots of film there's lots of ways to investigate it . Why is it so hard to find the good one ?

Or what is it about the NFL that makes being a good one so much harder than college etc.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]


[url]https://www.abc27.com/sports/sports-illustrated/833ae846/kurt-warner-admits-college-football-is-hard-to-watch-as-he-breaks-down-draft-qbs/[/url]

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

I'm only drafting J.D. at 2 for the rest of my mock drafts. I want to will that into fruition.

2. Jayden Daniels QB LSU
36. Troy Franklin WR Oregon
40. Darius Robinson EDGE Missouri
67. Max Melton CB Rutgers
101. Payton Wilson LB NC State
103. Brandon Coleman OG TCU
138. Beaux Limmer OC Arkansas
181. Erick All TE Iowa
220. Nathan Thomas OT Louisiana

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1359490][url]https://www.abc27.com/sports/sports-illustrated/833ae846/kurt-warner-admits-college-football-is-hard-to-watch-as-he-breaks-down-draft-qbs/[/url][/quote]

...the pass concepts are a mess most of the time

Even throwing college O.C.'s under the bus. But he isn't wrong, everyone runs the same offense nowadays. It's boring unless it's your team.

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1359492]I'm only drafting J.D. at 2 for the rest of my mock drafts. I want to will that into fruition.

2. Jayden Daniels QB LSU
36. Troy Franklin WR Oregon
40. Darius Robinson EDGE Missouri
67. Max Melton CB Rutgers
101. Payton Wilson LB NC State
103. Brandon Coleman OG TCU
138. Beaux Limmer OC Arkansas
181. Erick All TE Iowa
220. Nathan Thomas OT Louisiana[/quote]

That could be a fine draft class!

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

I will admit to a bias. These super mobile QBs have been around since Randall Cunningham, over the last decade we've seen a ton of them and some on good teams. But only one (Hurts) even made it to the Super Bowl.

As I watched the first quarter of the Ravens/Chiefs I told myself I have to get with the times and accept this type of QB as the future. An 8 yard run on 3rd and 6 is just as good as an 8 yard pass into tight coverage.

But then I see Lamar crap the bed in the playoffs. Again. And I'm right back where I've always been, preferring a pocket QB

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[quote=Darrell Green Fan;1359517]I will admit to a bias. These super mobile QBs have been around since Randall Cunningham, over the last decade we've seen a ton of them and some on good teams. But only one (Hurts) even made it to the Super Bowl.

As I watched the first quarter of the Ravens/Chiefs I told myself I have to get with the times and accept this type of QB as the future. An 8 yard run on 3rd and 6 is just as good as an 8 yard pass into tight coverage.

But then I see Lamar crap the bed in the playoffs. Again. And I'm right back where I've always been, preferring a pocket QB[/quote]

Not sure I agree with your assessment. There have been a few mobile QB's in the Super Bowl era that have taken or even won a Super bowl, not many I agree but a few.

Tarkington

Staubach

Young

Elway , all were at their time considerd running / moble QB's then there was a newer version...........

Kaepernick

Newton
maybe even.

R. Wilson

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

Had a dream last night we drafted JD

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1359520]Had a dream last night we drafted JD[/quote]

Fantastic dream. I like your dedication to getting Daniels.

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

[quote=Darrell Green Fan;1359517]I will admit to a bias. These super mobile QBs have been around since Randall Cunningham, over the last decade we've seen a ton of them and some on good teams. But only one (Hurts) even made it to the Super Bowl.

As I watched the first quarter of the Ravens/Chiefs I told myself I have to get with the times and accept this type of QB as the future. An 8 yard run on 3rd and 6 is just as good as an 8 yard pass into tight coverage.

But then I see Lamar crap the bed in the playoffs. Again. And I'm right back where I've always been, preferring a pocket QB[/quote]

So I guess Patrick Mahomes is a "pocket" quarterback?

I think what we're seeing is a new "post Brady" model of an elite quarterback. One that can drop the dime, with touch when necessary, but is able to consistently make plays in AND out of the pocket. I think excellent mobility has come to be a expected trait of today's top tier quarterbacks. That's in addition to all the other qualities, mental and physical, you expect to see, of course.

Re: 2024 Early Bird Draft Thread
 

Had a dream last night we drafted JD