Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;471238]
Businesses seek to maximize profit at all costs. This leads to unethical behavior -- something I'd like to keep out of health care.
[/quote]
While there are definitely abuses and unethical actions that happen. There are checks to unethical behavior in the current system; all the health care providers are regulated in some form or another. Breaches of these regulations are extremely costly (hurting profitability). Also if the abuses warrant a lawsuit, defending and/or losing is extremely costly (hurting profitability). So while a business or corporation's sole function is to maximize profit (not a bad thing), it's not done "at all costs". That's why there is a framework of government regulations and the threat of lawsuits to protect the patients against abuses and unethical behavior.

Does our healthcare system have issues to address, absolutely. But assuming the majority of them are caused by dark motives of profit-mongering corporations is not the best way find the solutions IMO.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;471238]First of all, when I say that some things should not be motivated by profit, I do not imply that Government is the fix. There are more than two sides to this discussion.

The point I was trying to make is this:

Businesses seek to maximize profit at all costs. This leads to unethical behavior -- something I'd like to keep out of health care.

@Schneed: [B]you make it sound like hospitals are happy just breaking even[/B]. If that's the case, why would they even be in business? Isn't the point of a business to make profit?[/quote]

Then you've drastically misunderstood me. Hospitals do try to make a profit, it's just that many simply can't in this environment of rising costs. So their sole goal becomes to try to simply stay open.

Either way it's the same goal: make money for profit or make money to stay open. Either way the goal is to reach a money target.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

So for the people who think goverment should take over health ins. could you please name one other program that the goverment runs well and not way over cost.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

werent you just saying how well F.E.M.A was working?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;471249]So for the people who think goverment should take over health ins. could you please name one other program that the goverment runs well and not way over cost.[/quote]

Has not the Fed historically demonstrated the inate ability to orchestrate, and maintain highly efficient, cost effective programs keenly in tune with public need and desire operating, under budget projection?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

- Pause in the debate action -

Just want to say I love you guys today, even the crazy lefties like saden and dmek. Because you are Redskin fans, and today is Redskin day!

Good debate too, by the way.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

read about state farm's "collosus"(sp?) program if you think insurance companies dont need a shake up.

I love how every time a republican rep is asked about Palin the only thing they can say is "Well ive talked with the Alaskan delegates and they say she has a strong grasp on economics and should not be underestimated." Way to do your research. If the dems put her on their ticket the repubs would have a field day.

go skins!

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=dmek25;471251]werent you just saying how well F.E.M.A was working?[/quote]
If your speaking about this quote from me in the other thread "You had to take the jab. I have delt with FEMA and they have had issues ever sense I can remember." as saying how well FEMA is doing then that explains allot.

Forgot 3 hours and 28 min till kick off.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;471246]While there are definitely abuses and unethical actions that happen. There are checks to unethical behavior in the current system; all the health care providers are regulated in some form or another. Breaches of these regulations are extremely costly (hurting profitability). Also if the abuses warrant a lawsuit, defending and/or losing is extremely costly (hurting profitability). So while a business or corporation's sole function is to maximize profit (not a bad thing), it's not done "at all costs". That's why there is a framework of government regulations and the threat of lawsuits to protect the patients against abuses and unethical behavior.

Does our healthcare system have issues to address, absolutely. But assuming the majority of them are caused by dark motives of profit-mongering corporations is not the best way find the solutions IMO.[/quote]

You're wrong -- profit is paramount, and no cost is too great if it means maximizing profits. It is the executive duty to the shareholders.

There have been several cases throughout history which exemplify this attitude.

Also, I'm not assuming the majority of issues are caused by profit-seekers. I just heard a lot of talk about how private medicine is better, because it's profit driven. Well, profit isn't the best motivator IMO.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Schneed10;471247]Then you've drastically misunderstood me. Hospitals do try to make a profit, it's just that many simply can't in this environment of rising costs. So their sole goal becomes to try to simply stay open.

Either way it's the same goal: make money for profit or make money to stay open. Either way the goal is to reach a money target.[/quote]

It's just hard for me to believe a hospital would be satisfied breaking even, and keep their doors open in that condition -- especially in this environment of rising costs.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote]Just want to say I love you guys today, even the crazy lefties like saden and dmek. Because you are Redskin fans, and today is Redskin day!
[/quote]
I hate you guys....J/K.

Martinis and arugula salad on me. :grouphug:

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;471278]It's just hard for me to believe a hospital would be satisfied breaking even, and keep their doors open in that condition -- especially in this environment of rising costs.[/quote]

You're still not getting it. Let me try it differently:

Hospitals aren't happy breaking even. They want a profit at all times. But the fact is it's impossible for many of them, so they move heaven and earth just to try to break even (some succeed, some fail).

But are you sure you understand what breaking even means? Breaking even means you cover all your costs and you have nothing left over. That means you manage to pay the ever rising malpractice premiums, you manage to pay for all the drugs and supplies which go higher and higher, you manage to pay all your employees and docs, and you bring in just enough revenue to cover all of this. Breaking even means you kept your operation running, cared for all your patients and gave them a good medical experience, and didn't have to lay anybody off. It's a very good thing (relatively speaking) for a hospital to break even these days.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Schneed10;471285]You're still not getting it. Let me try it differently:

Hospitals aren't happy breaking even. They want a profit at all times. But the fact is it's impossible for many of them, so they move heaven and earth just to try to break even (some succeed, some fail).[/quote]

If they can't make a profit they would close. Why on earth would a business stay open if it's "impossible" to make a profit?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;471287]If they can't make a profit they would close. Why on earth would a business stay open if it's "impossible" to make a profit?[/quote]

Many are indeed closing for that exact reason. In Philadelphia, we recently lost Medical College of Pennsylvania, Parkview Medical Center, and Temple University Children's Medical Center just to name a few.

Others that aren't actually closing are shedding programs that lose money, most notably OB/GYN. There are now only 2 hospitals in North Philly that deliver babies. Five years ago, there were 11.

The hospitals still standing are the ones that either manage to break even (or better) or continue to believe that they can break even with some programmatic changes and key strategic investments (which is what I do).

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

I feel all the love in the air.