Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

Not sure I understand the Moses move. I thought possible next year. He’s not making a ton of $$ and Washington is already well under the salary cap. Let’s be clear though - once the “find a trade or we will release you” is out there, he’s not coming back.

JP

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

If they just release him .... i just dont understand. Its like our FO thinks they have to be 15M under the cap every year.

This is big news.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

Hard to imagine someone wouldn't want him, we could even pick up half his salary to sweeten the deal. Wonder what we could get, maybe a 5th at best?

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

I like our OLine depth. I'll like it a lot less after moving on from him.

Looks like Leno and Lucas will both start. Cosmi as swing tackle. Hopefully Charles can get training at tackle and guard.

I'll reserve judgment until after we see what compensation we get and what we use the extra money on.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1283990]@RapSheet

The Washington Football Team is likely moving on from long-time starting OT Morgan Moses, sources say, giving Moses the ability to seek a trade. Moses is due $7.75M in 2021 and if a team trades for the dependable player, it picks up the salary.[/quote]

Huh??? I do not understand this move one bit. You pay Schreff 17 mill or whatever yet you want to cut Moses who is a tackle and makes way less? Moses was pretty solid last year. What are they thinking on this one? Why are you cutting your starting RT who is making under 8 million??

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1284006]Huh??? I do not understand this move one bit. You pay Schreff 17 mill or whatever yet you want to cut Moses who is a tackle and makes way less? Moses was pretty solid last year. What are they thinking on this one? Why are you cutting your starting RT who is making under 8 million??[/QUOTE]


Trade Moses for Rodgers. [emoji6]


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Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

Moses had a 80.6 PFF grade last year, played well when asked to go over to the LT for a bit and put together a healthy season.

I personally dont think Moses (30) is going to age well but figured he was a lock for this season at least.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1284009]Moses had a 80.6 PFF grade last year, played well when asked to go over to the LT for a bit and put together a healthy season.

I personally dont think Moses (30) is going to age well but figured he was a lock for this season at least.[/quote]

Last year he had a better year...but let's not all forget how abhorrent his penalties were for pretty much his entire career. His play wasn't stellar most of the time, either.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1284006]Huh??? I do not understand this move one bit. You pay Schreff 17 mill or whatever yet you want to cut Moses who is a tackle and makes way less? Moses was pretty solid last year. What are they thinking on this one? Why are you cutting your starting RT who is making under 8 million??[/quote]

Time to start clearing cap if you want to re-sign guys like Jon Allen

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1284011]Time to start clearing cap if you want to re-sign guys like Jon Allen[/quote]

I let Allen walk. I would not resign him because to me he is a JAG. Is he any better than Settle? I don't think so. He isn't better than Payne or Matt I. He is our 3rd best DT yet will command top DT money. And even though he is everything you want in a player off the field, he is just an average guy on it.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

This is a surprising move and I don't like it.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1284013]I let Allen walk. I would not resign him because to me he is a JAG. Is he any better than Settle? I don't think so. He isn't better than Payne or Matt I. He is our 3rd best DT yet will command top DT money. And even though he is everything you want in a player off the field, he is just an average guy on it.[/quote]

I'd strongly disagree about him being just a guy. He's a top 20 interior lineman according to PFF (18th overall). Payne was 38th last year. Settle was 43rd and Ioannidis 54th.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1284015]I'd strongly disagree about him being just a guy. He's a top 20 interior lineman according to PFF (18th overall). Payne was 38th last year. Settle was 43rd and Ioannidis 54th.[/quote]

Ioannidis was injured last season.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

Jon Allen is kinda like Kerrigan was. Respected, great locker room guy, competent and effective. Not someone fans see as a critical piece though.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

I read somewhere today that Moses was told by team management that Leno was brought in to be the starting LT and that Cosmi was not drafted in the 2nd Round to sit. I assume that means Cosmi is pencilled-in to start at RT.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1284017]Jon Allen is kinda like Kerrigan was. Respected, great locker room guy, competent and effective. Not someone fans see as a critical piece though.[/quote]

Who cares what fans think of Jon Allen's value to the team? I don't care. I do care what RR and his staff think about his value and I trust them to make well thought-out decisions about player contracts.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=OnceWeWereKings;1284010]Last year he had a better year...but let's not all forget how abhorrent his penalties were for pretty much his entire career. His play wasn't stellar most of the time, either.[/quote]

Agree with all that but he did have a good year in play and staying healthy. Losing Moses inst the end of the world but he was a B- type player last year on a reasonable contract.

I wouldnt mind a nastier run blocker on the right side.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1284019]Who cares what fans think of Jon Allen's value to the team? I don't care. I do care what RR and his staff think about his value and I trust them to make well thought-out decisions about player contracts.[/QUOTE]I was referring to comments here and in general about fans view of Allen. Of course when it comes to the team RR and staff will make the value decisions but there will be fans on this board and elsewhere that will comment based on their own perception. And then, on this board we will discuss that perception. That is kinda what this forum is about...

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Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=OnceWeWereKings;1284010]Last year he had a better year...but let's not all forget how abhorrent his penalties were for pretty much his entire career. His play wasn't stellar most of the time, either.[/quote]

Valid point. I assumed that his play improved because of the different coaches and offense system, but that could not be the case. This is where I need to remind myself to trust the coaches - if they think they can replace Moses with Cosmi or whichever other tackle on the roster then so be it.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

I like Moses, but good teams know when it's time to say goodbye - even if the fans don't understand the reasons.

He had a pretty good year last year, and a couple good years sprinkled in during his time here, but he has had his share of injuries (played through a lot of them), and his average PFF grade from 2014-2019 is 67.2.

Confident RR and Company have a plan here with Cosmi, Charles, Lucas, and Leno.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1284013]I let Allen walk. I would not resign him because to me he is a JAG. Is he any better than Settle? I don't think so. He isn't better than Payne or Matt I. He is our 3rd best DT yet will command top DT money. And even though he is everything you want in a player off the field, he is just an average guy on it.[/QUOTE]Strongly disagree.
I've been a Settle supporter, I think he's underrated, but Allen's potential is bigger. He is very consistent and has some games where he is just a monster.

Throw in the work ethic and you know this staff wants him back.
We have a young roster, and thus cap available, I see nothing wrong with trying to retain what this team is built on: freakish Dline!

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Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

Leno LT, Cosmi RT

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

Moses had a good 2020 and his holding penalty addiction seemed to subside. He is always, always healthy and He isn’t owned a ton of money. Im not a fan of this move at all. You do what you need to do to keep him.

WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1284023]I like Moses, but good teams know when it's time to say goodbye - even if the fans don't understand the reasons.



He had a pretty good year last year, and a couple good years sprinkled in during his time here, but he has had his share of injuries (played through a lot of them), and his average PFF grade from 2014-2019 is 67.2.



Confident RR and Company have a plan here with Cosmi, Charles, Lucas, and Leno.[/QUOTE]



He hasn’t missed a start in 6 years, and the money is not an issue. It is a strange situation. And honestly who gives a shit about a pff grade. The guy is our starting right tackle and better than anyone else on our team to currently to man that position. This is not progress, it is a problem. A weird, unexpected problem.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1284017]Jon Allen is kinda like Kerrigan was. Respected, great locker room guy, competent and effective. Not someone fans see as a critical piece though.[/QUOTE]



Im a fan and see him as extremely critical. Are we suddenly so good after a 7-9 record that we can shed starting tackles on both side of the line - Allen and Moses- and not miss a beat? I mean let the year play out before the coaching staff and FO thinks that they are all time greats and can win with anyone for Gods sake. Not implying you think that just sayin pump the breaks on we have Vince Lombardi and Bobby Beathard in the house. Allen and Moses are critical this year.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1284028]He hasn’t missed a start in 6 years, and the money is not an issue. It is a strange situation. And honestly who gives a shit about a pff grade. The guy is our starting right tackle and better than anyone else on our team to currently to man that position. This is not progress, it is a problem. A weird, unexpected problem.[/QUOTE]I wonder if it goes to a conflict of work ethics. We know RR has certain standards and expectations. There was a story of RR when he started with Carolina some players were saying "thats not how its done here" and RR made it clear it was to be done his way.

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Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1284029]Im a fan and see him as extremely critical. Are we suddenly so good after a 7-9 record that we can shed starting tackles on both side of the line - Allen and Moses- and not miss a beat? I mean let the year play out before the coaching staff and FO thinks that they are all time greats and can win with anyone for Gods sake. Not implying you think that just sayin pump the breaks on we have Vince Lombardi and Bobby Beathard in the house. Allen and Moses are critical this year.[/QUOTE]Allen isnt going anywhere, my point i was trying to say, but clearly not clearly, is only that fans undervalue the talent we have. So you heard fans bitch about Kerrigan not showing up but he is our all time sack leader. Fans will say Allen is just a guy but his value to the coaches he is much more than that.



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Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1283990]@RapSheet

The Washington Football Team is likely moving on from long-time starting OT Morgan Moses, sources say, giving Moses the ability to seek a trade. Moses is due $7.75M in 2021 and if a team trades for the dependable player, it picks up the salary.[/quote]

They should have moved Moses to LT (he actually played really well as a LT) instead of signing Leno and put Cosmi at RT. Maybe Moses has an attitude like his buddies Williams and Dunbar?

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1284032]They should have moved Moses to LT (he actually played really well as a LT) instead of signing Leno and put Cosmi at RT. Maybe Moses has an attitude like his buddies Williams and Dunbar?[/quote]

I do believe it’s more attitude and team fit than performance. Moses was good last year and he was solid many past years as well…

Wish we woulda moved him before the draft, could have gotten a decent pick. Not 1st or second, but mid round. We won’t get much now, maybe a pick swap or 6th rounder at best…which is a front office fail as he is a solid starter in the league.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1284024]Strongly disagree.
I've been a Settle supporter, I think he's underrated, but Allen's potential is bigger. He is very consistent and has some games where he is just a monster.

Throw in the work ethic and you know this staff wants him back.
We have a young roster, and thus cap available, I see nothing wrong with trying to retain what this team is built on: freakish Dline!

Envoyé de mon SHV48 en utilisant Tapatalk[/quote]

No way Allen is JAG. He is probably also not nearly as good as the money he commands. Not an easy decision, think it comes down to what he can be signed for. Dumping Moses' salary makes keeping Allen much more probable, or at least possible.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Scalper;1284035]No way Allen is JAG. He is probably also not nearly as good as the money he commands. Not an easy decision, think it comes down to what he can be signed for. Dumping Moses' salary makes keeping Allen much more probable, or at least possible.[/quote]

I suppose this was really what I was trying to say about Allen. He simply isn't worth paying top DT money which is what he will probably ask for.

And I stand by what I said - he is our 3rd best DT.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

John Allen is pivotal to the dline and the leadership here. We need to re up him soon

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1284028]He hasn’t missed a start in 6 years, and the money is not an issue. It is a strange situation. And honestly who gives a shit about a pff grade. The guy is our starting right tackle and better than anyone else on our team to currently to man that position. This is not progress, it is a problem. A weird, unexpected problem.[/quote]

Moses gets blown up off the edge more than you'd like. He is steady, but not elite. The question isn't do you like Moses, in a vacuum, but do you like Moses, in terms of his opportunity cost, other players, short term and long. He is due $9.65M this year with $1.9M dead cap if cut, $7.75M savings. He is also due $7.75M next year but can be cut then with no dead money. Moses is solid but not a world beater, and is a much better run blocker than pass blocker. I prefer edge blockers who can pass block first. So let's rephrase the question:

We just signed a viable above average starting LT for $5M, and have three viable guys at RT, Cosmi, Charles, Lucas, earning less total than Moses. The smart long term move is to cut Moses after this year, if you can get a 4th or 6th round pick instead, that is a free pick, trying to trade him old-school Pats style move. FO again smartly recognizes that our OL was a paper tiger that got owned by better teams and is systematically improving upgrading, by addition subtraction. Give them loads of credit for this. You can get 80% of the production of Moses, and pass blocking just as good, for half the price or less, while emphasizing long term. This is another incredibly smart move that shows our FO gets it. Whatever Moses was in his late 20s, he is losing a step, in pass protection especially. And that is playing next to Scherff.

Not paying Moses saves just under $17M over two years. That is a lot of money for a RT. In a vacuum, Moses is more dependable and proven than other options, but long term, that $17M might be the difference between keeping Allen or not. Jonathan Allen is 26 and if we sign a 4-5 year deal, we get him for his entire prime. I would prefer Allen and Charles or Lucas or Cosmi at RT and Allen resigned, or another STUD FA next year in their prime, versus Moses at RT and no Allen or stud FA. So would I rather pay an above average but not elite RT who is 31 this year and 32 next, or lockup a key contributor Allen long term for the rest of their prime, while plugging in a very solid option at RT with only modest drop-off, and virtually none in pass blocking which matters most?

Trying to trade Moses is a super smart long-term move, which shows FO gets the hard-nosed long-term realities of salary cap. And remember, all those FAs we've signed with lowball deals this year balloon years after. Love the idea of rolling over money to next year. We can only hope we find a sucker to bite on a trade. Doubt we will, most teams probably wait for us to just cut him, but if we can get even a 5th rounder I take the trade in a heartbeat. Love this trade, and love trying to rebuild OL to make it dominant like DL. Can't be afraid to give younger guys reps. My dream scenario would be Cosmi LT, Charles RT, but that is probably a pipe dream, both winning starting jobs.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

Well damn if WFT isn't doing the right things

[url]https://theathletic.com/2589621/?source=fbpcadsbc&ad_id=23847485685420092&fbclid=IwAR0QsTme21ieXYTNxCmdddfRtt_k6xNCTWjqQZ_dt2inx8ZyjUSDub0F9tE[/url]

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Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

When you look at the moves made since draft, have to up our overall offseason grade to B+. Can't give A with no attempt to address QB long term, which is again inexcusable, but when you look at Reyes, Patterson, McCain, Leno, trying to bring in CFL guys, trying to dump Moses, etc., you have to up the grade a bit. Our FO is aggressively trying to improve via EVERY avenue available, even at positions where conventional wisdoms says stand pat. Dumping Moses is emphatically the smart long term decision. I'm not one of the Homers who thinks we are a SB contender, but we are a much improved team, give FO credit.

Players added:
DRAFT
LB - Davis
OT - Cosmi
CB - Juste
WR - Brown
TE - Bates
S - Forrest
LS - Cheeseman
DE - King
DE - Toney
WR - Milne
10 guys, though we did mortgage future

UDFA
RB - Patterson
TE - Reyes (put him as UDFA as this seems most logical designation)
2 guys, 2 free late round picks essentially

FA
QB - Fitzaverage
CB - Jackson
WR - Samuel
LT - Leno
CB - Roberts
RB - Miller
WR - Humphries
OLB - Norris
OT - Sharpe
C - Larsen
CB - Johnson
ILB - Mayo
WR - Carter
TE - Yelder
S - Stephens
S/CB McCain
16 FAs. That is a lot, but only two, Jackson Samuel, longer than 1 year. In English, the backend of roster still remains extremely unsettled. No way we ever consistently get comp picks signing 12+ FAs per year. You'll know our roster is closer to complete when this trend of gaggles of FAs on 1-year deals ends. All these guys won't make roster, but say 10 do. That is 22 new players if every rookie makes team (which improbable). Even 20 players is over 33% turnover. That is aggressive improvement.

ADDITION BY SUBTRACTION
CB - Darby
LB - Pierre Louis
DE - Kerrigan
TE - Sprinkle
CB - Moreau
OLB - Anderson
WR - Foster
Every one of these moves was emphatically right choice, from replacing declining Kerrigan with young promising picks, to not paying Darby, to letting positionless Anderson go, etc.
Hopefully add one more to list:
RT - Moses

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1284028]He hasn’t missed a start in 6 years, and the money is not an issue. It is a strange situation. And honestly who gives a shit about a pff grade. The guy is our starting right tackle and better than anyone else on our team to currently to man that position. This is not progress, it is a problem. A weird, unexpected problem.[/quote]

I don't really care about the PFF grade, someone else brought up his 2020 grade, so I thought I'd share the whole picture.

This is not the end of the world. Obviously they believe they can get as good or better play with someone else on the roster, and if they can also get something for him - so be it.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1284041]I don't really care about the PFF grade, someone else brought up his 2020 grade, so I thought I'd share the whole picture.

This is not the end of the world. Obviously they believe they can get as good or better play with someone else on the roster, and if they can also get something for him - so be it.[/quote]

Even if they get nothing, and just cut him, they have essentially gotten Allen long term instead of letting him walk.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Scalper;1284042]Even if they get nothing, and just cut him, they have essentially gotten Allen long term instead of letting him walk.[/quote]

You make an excellent point. We fans tend to lose sight of the Big Picture. I do, anyway.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1284015]I'd strongly disagree about him being just a guy. He's a top 20 interior lineman according to PFF (18th overall). Payne was 38th last year. Settle was 43rd and Ioannidis 54th.[/quote]

Some tough decisions coming up. I would like to keep Matty I. as interior pass rush. Making any o line account for Young and Sweat on the sides and Matty in the middle would be an effort in futility.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1284016]Ioannidis was injured last season.[/quote]

Yeah he didn't have enough snaps to qualify but I put him on there anyway for reference. Neither did Settle.