[QUOTE=That Guy]coles, hall, morton, portis, washington, barrow, etc, etc, etc ;)

its harder to screw up in the draft when you have 20 scouts and 2 picks too :D

yeah yeah, his first years sucked, he still overpays... but i think our last two offseasons have been pretty solid overall.[/QUOTE]


Last year's free agent pickups were very good (perhaps with the exceptions of Upshaw, Canidate, and Fiore). But last year was the first year in which I think Snyder paid for the future and not the past. I tried to articulate my belief that the Danny Snyder of 2000 might be dead by saying that he might be changing.

But, overall, since 1999, when Snyder bought the franchise, our drafts have been enormously cheaper and more fruitful than our free agency shopping sprees.

Portis and Washington are two great additions and Brunell will be very productive for two to three years. Springs and Griffin are worthwhile risks, but risks nonetheless as Springs has a bad history of injuries and Griffin appears to have underperformed the last few years. We overpaid for Griffin as well. Barrow and Daniels should be good for a year or two, but their age will catch up with them. So, for me at least, the jury is out on our free agent pickups of 2004 (even if one could argue that Portis alone makes the offseason great).

Ramseyfan I cast a vote for you because I liked the fact that you did more than the standard "the cap will kill us" "we need a GM" argument without offering any sort of solution. The fact that you took the time to provide alternatives merits a vote.

I think sometimes though you have to pounce an opportunity instead of waiting it to [I]maybe[/I] come to you. We had the opportunity to get Brunell early and have him learning our offense and participating in our mini-camps from day one. Yeah we lost a third-round draft pick, but I think having security at QB early on is worth it. I don't want to be settling for Tim Couch (no offense Couch fans) in late June.

As for the draft, I would tend to make the same argument for getting Brunell. We could pile up on draft picks and risk what we've been going through with Sean Taylor, in terms of wondering will he be in camp on time. What we've done with our picks is use them as leverage for young proven players (i.e. Coles). We're getting young, proven players who are already signed and ready to go from day one.

If there is anyone else out there who agrees with anything I say, please let me know because I feel like I am getting pounded harder than Tracy Lords in a frat house.

:smashfrea

its just hard to argue with gibbs ;) at least ou've thought it through and can defend your choices, but I think the last couple years have been good. I think drafting is much more cap friendly, but until cap hell happens or the FAs turn into busts, its hard to argue against FAs like coles and portis.

I agree we should draft more and not overpay, but the redskins always look so good in august that its hard to say they've done anything wrong. Its much easier in a disappointing december.

We'll, I'm glad you're back. Thinks are not the same without your carefully considered and balanced comments added with a mild dash of incandescent fury.

Don't work too hard.

[QUOTE=That Guy]its just hard to argue with gibbs ;) at least ou've thought it through and can defend your choices, but I think the last couple years have been good. I think drafting is much more cap friendly, but until cap hell happens or the FAs turn into busts, its hard to argue against FAs like coles and portis.

I agree we should draft more and not overpay, but the redskins always look so good in august that its hard to say they've done anything wrong. Its much easier in a disappointing december.[/QUOTE]

Well put. We disagree, but I agree with this post if that makes any sense.

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Easy Hogskin, relax, this is a friendly discussion.[/QUOTE]

Hmmmmmm. Not sure what I did said that was "unfriendly" LOL. I thought I was merely presenting an opposing point of view... Hope that's not unacceptable here. I will try again, and try to be very careful not to offend you.

You said that I believe in building a team through free agency (as opposed to you). That is not what I believe at all, and I don't think I ever said anything that indicated that. I believe in using both, as the Redskins are doing now. Everything in my post was in direct response to your initial theory, and was intended to demonstrate the flaws in it - nothing more. Actual statistics on the success rate of draftees makes a one-year draft-only rebuilding plan virtually impossible. That is the point I was attempting to make.

As far as their past history of free agents, I agree they have made many bad decisions. But draft decisions are even more difficult to get "right" than free agent signings. The difference this season is Gibbs (especially in free agent signings - his real area of expertise).

Again I will offer my challenge. Repost your original statement in this thread after week 10, and let's look at its validity then. In fact, repost my initial response also - if I am wrong, have at it and I will be here to take it on the chin and eat crow (both friendly and unfriendly).

P.S. Your Tracy Lords comment was the best I have seen anywhere on this board!!!! LMAO

The way I see it is we have a good mixture of players on the team.Some young proven players,Good cap friendly draft picks,and vets who have seen it all.So I cant really say that I am at all disappointed in this offseason.I do agree that Williams isnt going to be able to hide our weak d-line.All we can hope is that he can be creative enough to keep teams off balance by changing the personel and schemes around.

[QUOTE=Hogskin]Hmmmmmm. Not sure what I did said that was "unfriendly" LOL. I thought I was merely presenting an opposing point of view... Hope that's not unacceptable here. I will try again, and try to be very careful not to offend you. [/QUOTE]

Perhaps I misinterpreted the tone of your post, in which case no harm no foul. Of course opposing viewpoints are acceptable here; in fact they are encouraged. As many people here may know, I don't believe half of the things that I say, I just post viewpoints that I think are being neglected or "go against the grain." It would be boring if we all agreed on everything. Bouncing ideas off each others' heads improves everyones' knowledge of the team.

[QUOTE=Hogskin] You said that I believe in building a team through free agency (as opposed to you). That is not what I believe at all, and I don't think I ever said anything that indicated that. I believe in using both, as the Redskins are doing now. Everything in my post was in direct response to your initial theory, and was intended to demonstrate the flaws in it - nothing more. Actual statistics on the success rate of draftees makes a one-year draft-only rebuilding plan virtually impossible. That is the point I was attempting to make. [/QUOTE]

Again, I may have misunderstood you. It may be a matter of degrees that we are talking about. I'm a very draft-oriented guy and you are more free agency-oriented. I don't forget about free agency and you don't forget about the draft, but we have different priorities.

[QUOTE=Hogskin] As far as their past history of free agents, I agree they have made many bad decisions. But draft decisions are even more difficult to get "right" than free agent signings. The difference this season is Gibbs (especially in free agent signings - his real area of expertise). [/QUOTE]

IMO, while it might be easier to screw up a draft pick than a free-agent pickup, the costs associated with screwing up a free-agent pickup are a lot higher since the contracts tend to be much larger.

[QUOTE=Hogskin] Again I will offer my challenge. Repost your original statement in this thread after week 10, and let's look at its validity then. In fact, repost my initial response also - if I am wrong, have at it and I will be here to take it on the chin and eat crow (both friendly and unfriendly). [/QUOTE]

I can tell you that by Week 10, you will be right. As I said in my initial post I think Brunell will lead us to the playoffs this season and definately next season. But I'm evaluating this offseason's moves in terms of its long-term impact as in 2-3 years from now.

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]If there is anyone else out there who agrees with anything I say, please let me know because I feel like I am getting pounded harder than Tracy Lords in a frat house.

:smashfrea[/QUOTE]

Ramseyfan, I think the big thing here is, that Gibbs has probably been the most successful coach in Redskin history, and one of the best ever in the NFL. And right now there is an unbelievable wave of good feelings about his return, and a strong belief that he will do the right things for our team. So when you criticize his entire approach, and do it before training camp has even opened, you are certain to be met with overwhelming opposition. Now, you had the guts to present an opposing theory to "God", with absolutely no basis. If the team starts out 3-7, and your draftees are all stars, and you re-present this, you are a genius. EVERYONE will jump on your bandwagon!!!

it makes perfect sense ramseyfan ;) we'll see how the current class ends up doing this season (and long term)... i agree that barrow and brunell aren't going to be around too long, but this season has much more promise than the last two... (after i saw spurrier win the preseason two years back, i knew we were in trouble).

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I can tell you that by Week 10, you will be right. As I said in my initial post I think Brunell will lead us to the playoffs this season and definately next season. But I'm evaluating this offseason's moves in terms of its long-term impact as in 2-3 years from now.[/QUOTE]

Well, I did not merely mean that the Redskin record would show the validity or lack of it. I also meant that by week 10, there will be SOME clue as to the future of your draft selections. I would predict (based just on past statistics), that of your 5 picks (leaving Cooley out, who we got anyhow), At least one will no longer be in the NFL, and not more than 2 will have any significant impact whatsoever. Of course it will take longer for definitive results, but this would be a pretty good indication.

[QUOTE=Hogskin]Well, I did not merely mean that the Redskin record would show the validity or lack of it. I also meant that by week 10, there will be SOME clue as to the future of your draft selections. I would predict (based just on past statistics), that of your 5 picks (leaving Cooley out, who we got anyhow), At least one will no longer be in the NFL, and not more than 2 will have any significant impact whatsoever. Of course it will take longer for definitive results, but this would be a pretty good indication.[/QUOTE]

Okay, fair enough....I'll take you up on that.

[QUOTE=That Guy]it makes perfect sense ramseyfan ;) we'll see how the current class ends up doing this season (and long term)... i agree that barrow and brunell aren't going to be around too long, but this season has much more promise than the last two... (after i saw spurrier win the preseason two years back, i knew we were in trouble).[/QUOTE]

We definately have a lot more hope than we have had since Gibbs left. Unlike other years, I think this year's hope is well founded.

Last year (before the season began) I thought we'd go 7-9 but this year I think we'll be 10-6.

[QUOTE=Hogskin]Ramseyfan, I think the big thing here is, that Gibbs has probably been the most successful coach in Redskin history, and one of the best ever in the NFL. And right now there is an unbelievable wave of good feelings about his return, and a strong belief that he will do the right things for our team. So when you criticize his entire approach, and do it before training camp has even opened, you are certain to be met with overwhelming opposition. Now, you had the guts to present an opposing theory to "God", with absolutely no basis. If the team starts out 3-7, and your draftees are all stars, and you re-present this, you are a genius. EVERYONE will jump on your bandwagon!!![/QUOTE]

Again, I'm a skeptic so I look for our weak spots even while I'm cheering hard for the team. In 2002 I was highly skeptical of Spurrier and my doubts proved well founded. Last year I was one of the most pessimistic Warpathers when I said we'd go 7-9 and our dline would be a huge weakness. I'm not trying to say I'm always right; God knows I'm wrong as often as I am right. But, I think I'm right about how this offseason will affect us down the road.

This year I think we'll go far (we'll get kicked out of the first round of the playoffs), but I am skeptical about how this offseason will affect our team over the course of the next 3 years.