Re: woman sings "black national anthem" instead of star spangled banner.
 

[quote=redskinjim;455483]very few people have any respect for our country anymore. look at all the illegals waving the flag of mexico. and nobody says shit. this is america if you dont like it go back to where you came from![/quote]
Not a great way to make a point....BTW what is your point.

Re: woman sings "black national anthem" instead of star spangled banner.
 

[quote=12thMan;455389]I'm leaning toward you on this one, Schneed. Personally, that's the first time I've heard of the Black National Anthem and I'm black for crying out loud!

The biggest issue I have with this, however, is one of motive. The motive of the lady singing the song and the motive of the media coverage. For one, had she sang this song during, let's say, the month of February -Black History Month - while it still would have been unacceptable in my view, at least it would have provided a tacit of context for her behavior.

On the other hand, I too question the media's motive for making this a national story. It's not like it was at national event for the world to see. This could have very much remained a local story. So my only reasonable conclusion, and maybe I'm reaching here, is that they both were trying to somehow connect this story with this year's Presidential election.

Now neither the lady nor the media have admitted this, but every chance the media get's to disect polls related to Obama, they segregate and highlight class and race. And we all know how race and gender has been front and center throughout. I wonder if she was intending to signify racial pride on some level by sending this subtle message; that she's proud of this moment.

Also consider Denver will host the DNC convention next month.[/quote]
They have been doing polls using class and race for sometime now so I don't think Obama has anything to do with the type of polling done.

Re: woman sings "black national anthem" instead of star spangled banner.
 

[quote=firstdown;455631]They have been doing polls using class and race for sometime now so I don't think Obama has anything to do with the type of polling done.[/quote]

Yeah, it's quite simple why they look at it that way. It's the same reason advertisers break people up by demographic. They want to target certain messages to certain audiences, and based on age/income/race/gender/location, they can tailor the message and distribute it in an efficient manner to garner more votes. If white women aged 18-35 are already heavily favoring Obama, he can refrain from putting too many TV ads on Lifetime and Oxygen. If white men are favoring McCain, he can refrain from advertising during major sporting events.

Same reason you see more commercials for beer and Ford Mustangs during football games than you do during Entertainment Tonight.

Re: woman sings "black national anthem" instead of star spangled banner.
 

[quote=firstdown;455631]They have been doing polls using class and race for sometime now so I don't think Obama has anything to do with the type of polling done.[/quote]

Hmm...I don't know about that. Anyway, not too long ago I saw a poll that said Obama is doing poorly among suburban "white" women. Why is such a poll even necessary?

Re: woman sings "black national anthem" instead of star spangled banner.
 

[quote=12thMan;455638]Hmm...I don't know about that. Anyway, not too long ago I saw a poll that said Obama is doing poorly among suburban "white" women. Why is such a poll even necessary?[/quote]

For campaign strategy.

Re: woman sings "black national anthem" instead of star spangled banner.
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;455638]Hmm...I don't know about that. Anyway, not too long ago I saw a poll that said Obama is doing poorly among suburban "white" women. Why is such a poll even necessary?[/QUOTE]To give former sociology majors (like myself) a job after college.

Re: woman sings "black national anthem" instead of star spangled banner.
 

[quote=Schneed10;455641]For campaign strategy.[/quote]

But Schneed some independent group polled a total of 1,000 women and the media, namely MSNBC, took off and ran with the results as if it had some legitimacy.

What's the real value in polling 1,000 women from the burbs and drawing some conclusion about the larger electorate? None.

Re: woman sings "black national anthem" instead of star spangled banner.
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;455643]But Schneed some independent group polled a total of 1,000 women and the media, namely MSNBC, took off and ran with the results as if it had some legitimacy.

What's the real value in polling 1,000 women from the burbs and drawing some conclusion about the larger electorate? None.[/QUOTE]Hear hear. That's just slightly more people than they poll for Celebrity Family Feud.

Re: woman sings "black national anthem" instead of star spangled banner.
 

[quote=12thMan;455643]But Schneed some independent group polled a total of 1,000 women and the media, namely MSNBC, took off and ran with the results as if it had some legitimacy.

What's the real value in polling 1,000 women from the burbs and drawing some conclusion about the larger electorate? None.[/quote]
Don't discount the soccer moms of America!

;)

Re: woman sings "black national anthem" instead of star spangled banner.
 

[quote=12thMan;455643]But Schneed some independent group polled a total of 1,000 women and the media, namely MSNBC, took off and ran with the results as if it had some legitimacy.

What's the real value in polling 1,000 women from the burbs and drawing some conclusion about the larger electorate? None.[/quote]

Oh yeah, goes without saying that if you're trying to use a poll like that to draw conclusions about the larger electorate, you've got no idea what you're doing. So if that was MSNBC's intent, they're being retards, unless they're able to put it into context within overall state populations. But a poll like that does tell you how Obama is faring amongst a certain part of the population, which can indicate which messages he may push ahead with in the coming weeks/months. It also highlights the issues that are most important to certain parts of the population. For example, the working class and the poor are going to have a totally different set of priorities than the affluent.

You can also use these polls to examine historical data. Historically, there has been a very strong correlation between the candidate picked by certain demographic groups and the winning candidate. If you establish that historical correlation, you essentially establish that demographic as a swing vote. Polling that group can then be a helpful barometer for the upcoming election, provided you put the proper context around it.

Re: woman sings "black national anthem" instead of star spangled banner.
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;455644]Hear hear. That's just slightly more people than they poll for Celebrity Family Feud.[/quote]

I can explain the statistics and math to you if you really want, but essentially, any poll of 1000 people - if sampled correctly and in an appropriately random fashion - is a more than adequate sample size to gauge the voting tendencies for an entire demographic.

Re: woman sings "black national anthem" instead of star spangled banner.
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;455648]I can explain the statistics and math to you if you really want, but essentially, any poll of 1000 people - if sampled correctly and in an appropriately random fashion - is a more than adequate sample size to gauge the voting tendencies for an entire demographic.[/QUOTE]Considering that more than [URL="http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/voting/cps2004/tab01.xls"]111,000,000 women [/URL](between the ages of 18-75) registered to vote in 2004, do you really think that you can an accurate random sample by only polling 1,000 people?

Even if you were only concerned about women who live with their spouse, you're still talking about a group of more than 59 million people.

Re: woman sings "black national anthem" instead of star spangled banner.
 

[quote=Schneed10;455646]Oh yeah, goes without saying that if you're trying to use a poll like that to draw conclusions about the larger electorate, you've got no idea what you're doing. So if that was MSNBC's intent, they're being retards, unless they're able to put it into context within overall state populations. But a poll like that does tell you how Obama is faring amongst a certain part of the population, which can indicate which messages he may push ahead with in the coming weeks/months. It also highlights the issues that are most important to certain parts of the population. For example, the working class and the poor are going to have a totally different set of priorities than the affluent.

You can also use these polls to examine historical data. Historically, there has been a very strong correlation between the candidate picked by certain demographic groups and the winning candidate. If you establish that historical correlation, you essentially establish that demographic as a swing vote. Polling that group can then be a helpful barometer for the upcoming election, provided you put the proper context around it.[/quote]

I guess my real frustration has been how the media have sliced and diced the polls so much that it's all about race, gender, and class. And I don't like it. Yes, there is some redeemable value even in the most ridiculous poll I may disagree with. I just don't care for the larger narrative that the media tends to portray using this data - that is America is divided.

Re: woman sings "black national anthem" instead of star spangled banner.
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;455650]Considering that more than [URL="http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/voting/cps2004/tab01.xls"]111,000,000 women [/URL](between the ages of 18-75) registered to vote in 2004, do you really think that you can an accurate random sample by only polling 1,000 people?

Even if you were only concerned about women who live with their spouse, you're still talking about a group of more than 59 million people.[/quote]

Yes. It's been mathematically proven. Go to any statistics professor at your locally respected university. He'll tell you the same thing.

Re: woman sings "black national anthem" instead of star spangled banner.
 

[quote=12thMan;455652]I guess my real frustration has been how the media have sliced and diced the polls so much that it's all about race, gender, and class. And I don't like it. Yes, there is some redeemable value even in the most ridiculous poll I may disagree with. I just don't care for the larger narrative that the media tends to portray using this data - that is America is divided.[/quote]

I'd agree that the media tends to use this information incorrectly. For one, I don't think the media has enough statistics experts to properly interpret data. Hardly any of them can explain what the margin of error really means.

But the bigger problem is they tend to push the notion that the nation is divided, as you say, because it fuels an "us vs them" mindset amongst the viewers. And that can be riveting, so they sell newspapers and ad space.

I think I'm on the same page as you. There are a ton of redeeming uses for breaking polls down by demographic. Unfortunately the media misses almost all of them.