Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=The Goat;573778]Your argument pivots on Kurt Warner, probably the best "pressure" QB in the game today, working w/ the greatest WR in the game today and a 2nd WR easily in the top 5. In short...the argument doesn't hold water beyond the AZ Cards. Looking at top offenses you tend to see one resounding theme: a top notch offensive line. Brady has typically had one in NE. Peyton in Indy. Mini-Manning in NY has one of the best lines in the game and can be very good when he's on (such as he was at Fed Ex field last year). And finally, the most impressive QB in the game today IMHO, Drew Brees, has a very good (though maybe a bit underrated) line in front of him. I think anyone who watches the game play by play, seeing things develop, can easily recognize many of Zorn's plays fell apart before JC or any of his targets could be in a position to make something happen because the o-line crumbled. Zorn has basically said so himself.[/quote]

The Steelers offensive line wasn't exactly knocking on Canton's door last year either

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;573790]The Steelers offensive line wasn't exactly knocking on Canton's door last year either[/quote]


Yeah but the defense was off the charts. Big Ben finds a way to get an extra second or second and a half when he needed it and they were still able to run enough.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;573790]The Steelers offensive line wasn't exactly knocking on Canton's door last year either[/quote]

They gave Big Ben enough time to pull off a glorious come from behind Super Bowl win in the final minutes of the game.

Also their defense is capable of scoring on every defensive play. There are many reasons that they were better than us on both sides of the ball last year. That's not a fair comparison.

If your team's defense can almost score more than its offense then by all means go into the NFL season without quality O linemen. I don't think our defense grants us that luxury though.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

I am starting to get a bad feeling about Thomas. He may be able to get through this year but he also may be done.

The guy is a warrior but at some point the body can't take it any more.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=The Goat;573778]Your argument pivots on Kurt Warner, probably the best "pressure" QB in the game today, working w/ the greatest WR in the game today and a 2nd WR easily in the top 5. In short...the argument doesn't hold water beyond the AZ Cards. Looking at top offenses you tend to see one resounding theme: a top notch offensive line. Brady has typically had one in NE. Peyton in Indy. Mini-Manning in NY has one of the best lines in the game and can be very good when he's on (such as he was at Fed Ex field last year). And finally, the most impressive QB in the game today IMHO, Drew Brees, has a very good (though maybe a bit underrated) line in front of him. I think anyone who watches the game play by play, seeing things develop, can easily recognize many of Zorn's plays fell apart before JC or any of his targets could be in a position to make something happen because the o-line crumbled. Zorn has basically said so himself.[/quote]


My point is that becuse our offensive line was so dominant in the 1980s, fans (of a certain age I suppose) think the only path to success is to have an offensive line that pitches shutouts. It's an unrealistic expectation. The QB has to pick his teammates up. The Cardinals are one example. I think Roethlisberger does a nice job of buying time. Ditto Romo, though he lacks consistency. It's the only thing McNabb does really well, IMO. As for the Pats, their offensive line is good but you can't tell me that Brady and the receivers aren't the straaw that really stirs that drink.

As for Zorn, his devotion to the outmoded WCO will be his downfall. Campbell can't run it the way Hasselback did and if he wants to survive he needs to get over the notion that you can run the Redskins offense exactly like they did in Seattle.

On the bright side, our defense may be good enough to carry us while they figure out how to score more than ten points.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=70Chip;573806]My point is that becuse our offensive line was so dominant in the 1980s, fans (of a certain age I suppose) think the only path to success is to have an offensive line that pitches shutouts. It's an unrealistic expectation. The QB has to pick his teammates up. The Cardinals are one example. I think Roethlisberger does a nice job of buying time. Ditto Romo, though he lacks consistency. It's the only thing McNabb does really well, IMO. As for the Pats, their offensive line is good but you can't tell me that Brady and the receivers aren't the straaw that really stirs that drink.

As for Zorn, his devotion to the outmoded WCO will be his downfall. Campbell can't run it the way Hasselback did and if he wants to survive he needs to get over the notion that you can run the Redskins offense exactly like they did in Seattle.

On the bright side, our defense may be good enough to carry us while they figure out how to score more than ten points.[/quote]Well, the point is that no team last year started a line as poor as this:

lt-heyer, lg-kendall, c-rabach, rg-thomas, rt-fabini

You can't win in the NFL with that. But, if you start with this:

lt-samuels, lg-dockery, c-rabach, rg-thomas, rt-heyer

Then you still have to be able to win with this:

lt-samuels, lg-rinehart, c-rabach, rg-bridges, rt-heyer

Everything is relative. Last year the Giants started the same five lineman for 16 games each. The Redskins, on the other hand, lost 9 games due to injury on the OL. That's really not a lot, but the effect was exaggerated by three things: 1) all 9 games were lost at the same postion (OT), 2) when Heyer returned from injury the team opted not to place him back in the starting lineup which makes the practical games lost more like 13 or 14, and 3) the Redskins don't employ a replacement level left tackle other than Samuels, and to this day, still do not.

Currently, the Redskins have only two guys on the roster who can handle the tackle position for an extended length of time, so more injuries at that position would be devistating. I think they can deal with another 9 adjusted games lost if they get 16 start seasons from Heyer and Samuels. But that's not necessarily in their control.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

My expectation of the O-line is not HOF, best line in NFL can only to win mentality...I think it was fairly obvious the second half of last season the O-Line sucked due to injury and the basic extremely poor play of reserves who came to fill in. Im not going to bash JC for the performance of the second half. The running game also fell off. My expectations of Heyer, if he is deemed the starter needs to play better, 3rd year in the league under a pretty good line coach.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;573828]Well, the point is that no team last year started a line as poor as this:

lt-heyer, lg-kendall, c-rabach, rg-thomas, rt-fabini

[/quote]

I think you give some of these other offensive lines too much credit. However, if you're saying that Cerratto hasn't done his job and should be fired then I agree completely with that.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;573796]I am starting to get a bad feeling about Thomas. He may be able to get through this year but he also may be done.

The guy is a warrior but at some point the body can't take it any more.[/quote]

I've had that same bad feeling for a while now

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=70Chip;573806]
As for Zorn, his devotion to the outmoded WCO will be his downfall. Campbell can't run it the way Hasselback did and if he wants to survive he needs to get over the notion that you can run the Redskins offense exactly like they did in Seattle.

On the bright side, our defense may be good enough to carry us while they figure out how to score more than ten points.[/quote]


i gotta disagree with ya a bit on the first part. zorn installing and sticking to the wco is not the problem. he needs the right people to run it effectively. he has the backs, the receivers, the TEs and a few o-lineman. he just needs to add to the o-line and most importantly have the right qb to run it. JC might prove to be that guy, if so then the offense is only a few o-lineman away from having all the pieces in place.

i agree with you on your comments about the defense.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=wolfeskins;573893]i gotta disagree with ya a bit on the first part. [B]zorn installing and sticking to the wco is not the problem. he needs the right people to run it effectively. he has the backs, the receivers, the TEs and a few o-lineman. he just needs to add to the o-line and most importantly have the right qb to run it. JC might prove to be that guy, if so then the offense is only a few o-lineman away from having all the pieces in place.[/B]

i agree with you on your comments about the defense.[/quote]

I think that is an intelligent way to look at things.

No offense to Gibbs but the team had a lot of holes when Zorn took over and Zorn has filled a number of those holes so far. I fully expect us to add the missing pieces you described next offseason. Hopefully we'll be "good enough" on the o-line this season.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=Lotus;573896]I think that is an intelligent way to look at things.

No offense to Gibbs but the team had a lot of holes when Zorn took over and Zorn has filled a number of those holes so far. I fully expect us to add the missing pieces you described next offseason. Hopefully we'll be "good enough" on the o-line this season.[/quote]

Yep. They don't have to be great, just good enough. No excuses. Let's roll.

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=70Chip;573806]My point is that becuse our offensive line was so dominant in the 1980s, fans (of a certain age I suppose) think the only path to success is to have an offensive line that pitches shutouts. It's an unrealistic expectation. The QB has to pick his teammates up. The Cardinals are one example. I think Roethlisberger does a nice job of buying time. Ditto Romo, though he lacks consistency. It's the only thing McNabb does really well, IMO. As for the Pats, their offensive line is good but you can't tell me that Brady and the receivers aren't the straaw that really stirs that drink.

As for Zorn, his devotion to the outmoded WCO will be his downfall. Campbell can't run it the way Hasselback did and if he wants to survive he needs to get over the notion that you can run the Redskins offense exactly like they did in Seattle.

On the bright side, our defense may be good enough to carry us while they figure out how to score more than ten points.[/quote]

Well, remember we're not running the WCO really because of Zorn. We're running it because of Cerrato. It was VC who said "Hey it worked when is in San Fran. Portis and Santana have each had success with it in the NFL, Campbell succeeded with it in college. I can bring Zorn in to run it as an offensive coordinator..."

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

Kendall would be a great addition right now for so many reasons, most of them obvious reasons.

I still don't know why we don't sign Levi Jones.

Anyone know of any teams that have a decent Olineman that is on the trading block?

Re: Catching Up With Pete Kendall; Could He Be Back?
 

[quote=70Chip;573806]
[I][B]As for Zorn, his devotion to the outmoded WCO will be his downfall. Campbell can't run it the way Hasselback did and if he wants to survive he needs to get over the notion that you can run the Redskins offense exactly like they did in Seattle. [/B][/I][/quote]

I'm of the same opinion. I think Zorn is married to the WCO, do or die. It scared me last season and I have the same feeling about him this year.

I believe Zorn is fully capable of being a successful coach in the NFL, but I wonder if he needs all the right parts in place to make a championship contender. Furthermore, I'm not sold on this system being a good fit for Campbell. But one year can make a helluva difference.