Re: Why Stopping the Read-Option Isn't as Easy as You Think
 

At least SirLK26 gets it!

:Smoker:

Re: Why Stopping the Read-Option Isn't as Easy as You Think
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1020988]The league won't let that go on for long as a defensive strategy. QBs are the moneymakers for the NFL and they've proven they will do whatever they need to do rules-wise and penalty/fines/suspensions-wise to protect their income streams. The Commissioner's office made the suggestion last season that read-option QBs throw their hands up if they do not have the ball. That won't fly because it takes the element of deception away.

If we keep running this, I fully expect the NFL to come up with new restrictions on the defenses as far as hitting QBs. RGIII could be the most-popular player and [U]product[/U] the NFL has.[/quote]

What else can they do? I've already seen horrendous calls this pre season with the NFL over protecting the QB's. But I do think you're on to something. The minute a QB gets drilled and there's an injury off a read option fake, you can be assured that the league will come up w/ a new rule.

Re: Why Stopping the Read-Option Isn't as Easy as You Think
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1021011]Regarding goonish attacks on RGIII, I expect a similar approach as old school Hockey players dealt with their start getting hit. Retribution.

[B]I'd expect that the Redskins players unofficially designate a hit man, have them put a few blindside hits of the offending D personnel. Fullback or TE would be large enough.[/B][/quote]

Coach Williams, didn't you learn anything from what happened in New Orleans?

Re: Why Stopping the Read-Option Isn't as Easy as You Think
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1021039]Coach Williams, didn't you learn anything from what happened in New Orleans?[/quote]

Ahhhhh, but this would be unofficial. The coaches wouldn't know what was going on, and the only pay the "hit man" would get would be the satisfaction of putting the transgressing defender on the turf. :)

Re: Why Stopping the Read-Option Isn't as Easy as You Think
 

Read option only works with a certain set of skills from the QB, namely fantastic ball skills (hand-off, fake etc.) and the ability to keep/run the football. Of the 32 starting QBs right now I think 4 have the ability: RG, Wilson, Newton and Kaepernick. Aaron Rodgers could be argued but that franchise has (wisely) chosen to severely limit his keeps/runs.

There's two questions yet to be determined:

- Will (smart) D coordinators find creative ways to minimize the read option's effectiveness?

- Will a QB who keeps/runs the ball X number of plays per game/season also play at a high level long enough to make it worthwhile to build an offense around him?

The weight of evidence is probably yes to the first question and no to the second.

Re: Why Stopping the Read-Option Isn't as Easy as You Think
 

[quote=The Goat;1021042]Read option only works with a certain set of skills from the QB, namely fantastic ball skills (hand-off, fake etc.) and the ability to keep/run the football. Of the 32 starting QBs right now I think 4 have the ability: RG, Wilson, Newton and Kaepernick. Aaron Rodgers could be argued but that franchise has (wisely) chosen to severely limit his keeps/runs.

There's two questions yet to be determined:

- Will (smart) D coordinators find creative ways to minimize the read option's effectiveness?

- Will a QB who keeps/runs the ball X number of plays per game/season also play at a high level long enough to make it worthwhile to build an offense around him?

The weight of evidence is probably yes to the first question and no to the second.[/quote]

The problem is not stopping the read option. Any half decent Def. Coordinator can come up with a defense to stop it in about 3 minutes. The problem is that in order to stop it, you are selling out on it and leaving the passing game open. Its stopping the read option and the passing game at the same time that is the problem.

It will only work in the NFL if the QB can throw the ball. Which RG3, Wilson, Kaepernick, and Newton can do. RG3 rarely got touched when he kept it on the read option. He always had plenty of time to get some yards and get down to protect himself. Now if he is going to try and be a fullback when he keeps it, then there is a problem. The problem with QB's that can run is they seem to want to try and run people over. If they get down after they get their yards, they wont get hit much, if at all. If there is pressure coming at them, they just hand it off.

As long as RG3 has learned that its not all up to him and protects himself, then he will be fine. If he doesnt protect himself, the read option wont matter because he will scramble on a pass play when his receivers arent open and hurt himself there.

Re: Why Stopping the Read-Option Isn't as Easy as You Think
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1020988]The Commissioner's office made the suggestion last season that read-option QBs throw their hands up if they do not have the ball. That won't fly because it takes the element of deception away.[/quote]That's exactly what Griffin ended up doing last season, and it worked out pretty well. By the time he throws his hands up, Morris is already gashing the defense.

Re: Why Stopping the Read-Option Isn't as Easy as You Think
 

It's most likely been said already, but the biggest threat about our read option is we throw out of it. So the LB's bite up, and RG3 pin point accuracy hits our WR's all day. It was one of our biggest plays last year.

[QUOTE=Skinzman;1021045]The problem is not stopping the read option. Any half decent Def. Coordinator can come up with a defense to stop it in about 3 minutes. The problem is that in order to stop it, you are selling out on it and leaving the passing game open. Its stopping the read option and the passing game at the same time that is the problem.

It will only work in the NFL if the QB can throw the ball. Which RG3, Wilson, Kaepernick, and Newton can do. RG3 rarely got touched when he kept it on the read option. He always had plenty of time to get some yards and get down to protect himself. Now if he is going to try and be a fullback when he keeps it, then there is a problem. The problem with QB's that can run is they seem to want to try and run people over. If they get down after they get their yards, they wont get hit much, if at all. If there is pressure coming at them, they just hand it off.

As long as RG3 has learned that its not all up to him and protects himself, then he will be fine. If he doesnt protect himself, the read option wont matter because he will scramble on a pass play when his receivers arent open and hurt himself there.[/QUOTE]

Well, if selling out stops it, then the pass shouldn't work.
Selling out DOESN'T stop the read option. It stops the RUN option. The threat of an intermediate passing game is an essential element of the read option.

Re: Why Stopping the Read-Option Isn't as Easy as You Think
 

I thought the Redskins showed in one play last year against Seattle, how to stop the read option. I didn't understand why they didn't play that defense more throughout the game, then it occurred to me, maybe the reason they don't want to show it, is because it'll show the entire league how to stop it..now to find that clip

Re: Why Stopping the Read-Option Isn't as Easy as You Think
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1021063]Well, if selling out stops it, then the pass shouldn't work.
Selling out DOESN'T stop the read option. It stops the RUN option. The threat of an intermediate passing game is an essential element of the read option.[/quote]

The read option is a running play. The QB reads a defender and decides to hand off or keep it. Since the OL will be run blocking, the only pass out of it could be a screen since the OL can go down field on a screen.

You can play action out of it, but thats not the read option, thats a play action pass.

As to the intermediate passing game being an essential element. Thats what I said. If your QB cant pass, the read option will be stopped in the NFL.

Re: Why Stopping the Read-Option Isn't as Easy as You Think
 

I think the thing that helps out Griffin's ability to pass out of the read/option vs a standard play action pass is that he never turns his back on the defense. In a normal play action pass from under center (and yes you can play actions out of the shotgun, which is kind of like a read option) is that a QB normally takes the snap, turns his back, fakes the handoff, turns back around to start his reads. Using a read/option, after the mesh, the QB is automatically ready to throw and can really take advantage of the LBs biting on the run fake. I am seeing Vick run a play action with McCoy in the preseason out of the shotgun as well, but Vick is not running right now after the mesh with McCoy. Maybe he will Sept 9th, but right now its more of a straight play action. To me RGIII's ability to run holds those LBs a little longer which creates more space for the WR/TEs.

I think its important for the Redskins to actually let RGIII run early out of the read/option to keep the defenses honest this year and not have them thinking "well, he has been hurt and wont run this year, so I'm going for Morris every time".

Re: Why Stopping the Read-Option Isn't as Easy as You Think
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1020981]One of the "prettiest" things about Griffin's game is his exchange with RB's. The TV camera can be right on it, and still sometimes no one really knows where the ball ended up. I don't think his ACL took that ability away.[/quote]

Yes sir, RGIII's play action fake is one of the best and quickest in the league. Another unappreciated QB skill is foot work. IMO RGIII can take the snap, fake a hand off and set up to throw faster and better than any QB in the league, his motion in this process is consistent and flawless. You can tell he has worked on this for a long time. I noticed this in his first camp with us.

I remember Bill Walsh (IMO one of the best offensive minds in the game) talking about Qb's skills. He said what really jumped out at him about Joe Montana when they were scouting him at ND was his foot work and ball skills. He said he had not seen better foot work on a Qb coming out of since Joe Namath.
Walsh said most teams/scouts look at arm strength, height/size, leadership and football knowledge as the main measures. Most overlook the most important/basic skill - footwork and ball skills. If you do not set your feet quickly and well your throws will not be accurate. RGIII threw 20 TD's to only 5 Int's.
Suck on that Jaworski you eagle homer.

Re: Why Stopping the Read-Option Isn't as Easy as You Think
 

John Clayton's rating the QB's. I really expected more of him.
[quote]16. Robert Griffin III, Washington Redskins

Analysis: Will he be a different quarterback coming off knee reconstruction, at least temporarily? RG III's game is beating opponents with his arm and his feet. Wisely, the Redskins aren't using him in the preseason, but he will enter the regular season without having had any live action on the field. Carson Palmer, Tom Brady and others have proved they can come back from knee reconstructions, but it might be a little tougher for a running quarterback.

Arrow is pointing: flat [/quote]

See, RGII is not a "running" QB like Vick (or P.White). He is a QB that runs (like Elway or Young) - it is almost like Griffin is punished for having an extra dimension to his game.

I get the injury concerns, everyone outside of DC is harping on them and going with skin deep analysis on it (He runs, he has been injured, he will always be injured). At the same time, look at his passing game - his YPA (one of the most telling passing stats there is) and is TD/INT ratio.

Christ, either we are way off on our understanding of this team and its players or we are going to shock the hell out of the talking heads this year.

Me. I am going with Shock And Awe.

Re: Why Stopping the Read-Option Isn't as Easy as You Think
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1021108]John Clayton's rating the QB's. I really expected more of him.


See, RGII is not a "running" QB like Vick (or P.White). He is a QB that runs (like Elway or Young) - it is almost like Griffin is punished for having an extra dimension to his game.

I get the injury concerns, everyone outside of DC is harping on them and going with skin deep analysis on it (He runs, he has been injured, he will always be injured). At the same time, look at his passing game - his YPA (one of the most telling passing stats there is) and is TD/INT ratio.

Christ, either we are way off on our understanding of this team and its players or we are going to shock the hell out of the talking heads this year.

Me. I am going with Shock And Awe.[/quote]

I didn't look this up or know how too but didn't RGIII play very limited pre-season football last year. I think he was held out in game 4 even. That was his rookie season and he looked pretty damn good on the road in NO. I would THINK opening in WAS against PHI should be a easier task for him.