Re: Battle of the bad GM's
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1215077]How many draft picks has Bruce given away when it comes to QB's? 1 pick for the Smith trade, plus a quality starter, 2 high picks for McNabb, 3 high picks for Griffin and then he let a quality starting QB leave. So by my count that is 6 high draft picks and two quality starters. I can not remember any NFL executive that has been stupid enough to give all that away, but also one that can survive that.[/quote]

Add to that, Allen was voted least trustworthy NFL GM by player agents.
I am not sure Cerrato ever reached that low.
Allen and Cerrato both did a terrible job of running this team.
Allen is not a very good leader and brings out the worst in the Redskins Front Office. The endless amount classless and embarrassing situations created by them is proof enough...it is time for Allen to go. We need a change.
Allen has had enough time. Time is up.

Re: Battle of the bad GM's
 

Really I can't choose. Both of them sorry as shit. For right now I'll go with Allen since he's still here.

Re: Battle of the bad GM's
 

Have we hit bottom of the barrel when we are choosing between which shit sandwich tastes better?

Re: Battle of the bad GM's
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1215144]Have we hit bottom of the barrel when we are choosing between which shit sandwich tastes better?[/quote]

One of them has barbecue sauce on it, I suppose.

Re: Battle of the bad GM's
 

[quote=Defensewins;1215083]Add to that, Allen was voted least trustworthy NFL GM by player agents.
I am not sure Cerrato ever reached that low.
Allen and Cerrato both did a terrible job of running this team.
Allen is not a very good leader and brings out the worst in the Redskins Front Office. The endless amount classless and embarrassing situations created by them is proof enough...it is time for Allen to go. We need a change.
[B]Allen has had enough time. Time is up.[/B][/quote]

That, Sir, is the very best reason to fire both Allen and Gruden. By now, Snyder should know their capabilities and it should be clear to him that they can't get him where he wants to go with his franchise. So, time is up.

Re: Battle of the bad GM's
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1215156]That, Sir, is the very best reason to fire both Allen and Gruden. By now, Snyder should know their capabilities and it should be clear to him that they can't get him where he wants to go with his franchise. So, time is up.[/quote]

I agree with this post 100%. And this is how most NFL owners would view the situation. However, Dan is not most owners. Him and Bruce are close. They are bros. Closer than Dan and Vinny ever were. Dan worships Bruce's every word. And he takes what Bruce says as gospel. We could still be surprised if Bruce gets fired / re-assigned, and i'd be happy to eat crow if that's the case.

Re: Battle of the bad GM's
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1215166]I agree with this post 100%. And this is how most NFL owners would view the situation. However, Dan is not most owners. Him and Bruce are close. They are bros. Closer than Dan and Vinny ever were. [B]Dan worships Bruce's every word.[/B] And he takes what Bruce says as gospel. We could still be surprised if Bruce gets fired / re-assigned, and i'd be happy to eat crow if that's the case.[/quote]

Source?

Re: Battle of the bad GM's
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1215166]I agree with this post 100%. And this is how most NFL owners would view the situation. However, Dan is not most owners. Him and Bruce are close. They are bros. Closer than Dan and Vinny ever were. Dan worships Bruce's every word. And he takes what Bruce says as gospel. We could still be surprised if Bruce gets fired / re-assigned, and i'd be happy to eat crow if that's the case.[/quote]

I don't think it's that simple....people fail to mention that Bruce Allen is George Allen's son....and it's because of that fact Bruce Allen remains in the position he's in.....and no fucking body ever mentions this.....it would be the same thing if JD or Coy was team president and had a .412 winning percentage in 10 years....Coy or JD would get a pass because they are Joe Gibbs sons....and this is Snyder's problem....he gives Bruce Allen privilege because of what his father still means to the Redskins organization...anyone with keen insight can see that....if it were any other NFL organization Allen would have been terminated...just like he was in Tampa Bay.

Re: Battle of the bad GM's
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1214958]Vinny declared war on the fans. Bruce never did that. So i voted for Vinny.[/quote]

This

Re: Battle of the bad GM's
 

I voted Bruce, after reading a lot of the other post, they both are Danny Yes Men

Re: Battle of the bad GM's
 

I know things are bad now, but honestly it seems a lot of people seem to not know or forgotten about how terrible things were under Vinny.

I think the reasons why things seem worst now is that we are further removed from any success the team had, social media brings a lot of dirt in the open, and the injuries. If Vinny was happening now, FedEx would have been burned down by fans by now.

Re: Battle of the bad GM's
 

Definitely some heavy recency bias going on here.


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Re: Battle of the bad GM's
 

They're both terrible but have their pros and cons.

[U]Vinny Cerrato[/U]

[B]Pros:[/B] Brought in big name free-agents and got fans excited every off-season. That's all I got...

[B]Cons:[/B] Big name free-agents hardly (seemingly never) panned out or made any impact. The guy just [I]seemed[/I] unstable/in over his head and didn't inspire any confidence. Was a business guy and not a "football" guy. Had too much unwarranted control. Traded away our draft picks almost every year. Missed on most draft picks we had left.

[U]Bruce Allen[/U]

[B]Pros:[/B] Brought some stability and frugality back to the organization. Skins are no longer seen as a "final stop" destination for aging veterans to cash out and slack off the last few years of their career. Drafts have been better during his tenure, although I believe a lot of that is due to Gruden and some of the other guys in the Personnel department.

[B]Cons:[/B] Sleazy executive type who doesn't handle business as a man should. Hides from the media when the outcome of each year is heavily influenced by his decisions. Losing record that wouldn't be tolerated most other places.

At the end of the day i'd go with Bruce if these were my only two options. He's terrible, yes, but I'm at least pleased with the fact that we're looked at as "Mis-managed" and not just a place to collect checks anymore. The ONE constant over the past 20 years though is not found in the Front Office, Coaching Staff, Training Staff, etc. It's the Owner. It's [B]Dan Snyder.[/B] I know this isn't any shocking information but it's true. I do not trust him to hire a competent GM anymore. I don't think a competent GM would [I]prefer[/I] to work here. Money always talks, and i'm sure we could lure one eventually, but my trust has been seriously shaken with this team. The closest thing we've had to a functional FO was with Scot M. running the football side and BA running the business side. Scot had his flaws, and Bruce was more involved with football than we realized. But THAT structure was our best chance to succeed. [B]Bruce is a businessman[/B], let him handle [U]Business.[/U][B] Get somebody else to run our football team and leave him the eff alone.[/B]

Re: Battle of the bad GM's
 

Again, you guys are being WAY too nice to Vinny. I'll just end my comments with that.

Re: Battle of the bad GM's
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1217197]Again, you guys are being WAY too nice to Vinny. I'll just end my comments with that.[/quote]

I agree. But to me what seems to be really bothersome about Bruce is his character...he actually seems to be a really shit person...and why would Snyder insist having a low character person run the org? Then he must be equally low character.

Vinny was bad, but I do not know if his character was ever in question like it is for Bruce.