Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=offiss]I really don't want to sound cocky about this, but IT IS only a matter of time before Ramsey proves he's a bonified starter, I have no doubt in my mind. But it's just senseless at this point to keep debating, we can come back to this when it's all said and done and reflect on who was right and who was wrong, we are just going in circles. :insane:[/QUOTE]

Its only a matter of time until Halley's comet comes around again too. Whether or not any of us will be alive to see it is another question.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=70Chip]Its only a matter of time until Halley's comet comes around again too. Whether or not any of us will be alive to see it is another question.[/QUOTE]

Zing!!

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

Charles Rodgers from Detroit. Young great talent with some risk on the Skins part.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

I think we should package Ramsey and Betts in a deal for the Jets 2nd round pick. Although I like Betts as a runner, we have Rock and Nemo, and we also have Manuel White who I am sure will return strong from his fractured fibula, and Al Saunders will probably convert him back to a fullback who carries the ball, rather than a H-Back. We will have two number 2 picks, and with Ramsey and Betts both in the last years of their contracts, and with long term options supposedly set at both positions Campbell/Portis, we should be good to draft a receiver and defensive end who can contribute right away; positions we desparately need to take care of. I think it would be a good trade for both teams, since the Jets would get a young quaterback and young running back that have displayed talent, although somewhat inconsistently. Chad Pennington may never be full strength, and Curtis Martin (age) and Derrick Blaylock (backup at best) are not the answer in New York.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan1982]I think we should package Ramsey and Betts in a deal for the Jets 2nd round pick. Although I like Betts as a runner, we have Rock and Nemo, and we also have Manuel White who I am sure will return strong from his fractured fibula, and Al Saunders will probably convert him back to a fullback who carries the ball, rather than a H-Back. We will have two number 2 picks, and with Ramsey and Betts both in the last years of their contracts, and with long term options supposedly set at both positions Campbell/Portis, we should be good to draft a receiver and defensive end who can contribute right away; positions we desparately need to take care of. I think it would be a good trade for both teams, since the Jets would get a young quaterback and young running back that have displayed talent, although somewhat inconsistently. Chad Pennington may never be full strength, and Curtis Martin (age) and Derrick Blaylock (backup at best) are not the answer in New York.[/QUOTE]

That may be a very good option!

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]
You also seem to glance over turnovers as if they're not of any importance when evaluating a QB. But in fact turnovers are the biggest reason any team wins or loses any given game. Brunell's 23 TDs to 10 INTs this year speaks for itself. The QB rating may have been 85.9 this year, just as Ramsey's was last year. But Brunell's QB rating was depressed by the number of times he chose to throw the ball away in tough situations rather than force passes.
[/QUOTE]

um, its 23 TDs to 10 ints AND 11 fumbles... just so we're not ignoring an important stat.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=CRT3]Charles Rodgers from Detroit. Young great talent with some risk on the Skins part.[/QUOTE]

with a drug problem, massive injury problems and a great attitude of half assing it in practice and in games.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

no way detroit will deal with ramsey, since they have a high draft pick they will used it for a top prospective qb, like cutler

so best way is for jets and miami

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

Ramsey for roy williams.too sweet.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

Ramsey for some guy we all think will be to small and injury prone and will never make it as a first or second receiver.

Wait a minute... that was Coles....



You can bet that there is someone on the radar and it may not be who we think.

We should research who had stats like Moss had before he joined the Skins. A guy can get open, hold on to the ball, and whos stats show he could be a big time receiver if he had more touches.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

I believe Gibbs is going to target another WR, the question is who?

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan1982]I think we should package Ramsey and Betts in a deal for the Jets 2nd round pick. Although I like Betts as a runner, we have Rock and Nemo, and we also have Manuel White who I am sure will return strong from his fractured fibula, and Al Saunders will probably convert him back to a fullback who carries the ball, rather than a H-Back. We will have two number 2 picks, and with Ramsey and Betts both in the last years of their contracts, and with long term options supposedly set at both positions Campbell/Portis, we should be good to draft a receiver and defensive end who can contribute right away; positions we desparately need to take care of. I think it would be a good trade for both teams, since the Jets would get a young quaterback and young running back that have displayed talent, although somewhat inconsistently. Chad Pennington may never be full strength, and Curtis Martin (age) and Derrick Blaylock (backup at best) are not the answer in New York.[/QUOTE]

Im gonna disagree with this post. First, yes we have Rock, who is a free agent, and we have Nemo, who has done zip, zilch, nada. Betts is a legit No. 2 RB in this league, he has some speed and he is clearly better than Rock or an unproven Nemo. So you are proposing sending both Betts and Ramsey for a 2nd round pick, IMO that's too much for a 2nd rounder. In addition, it takes a WR at least 2, usually 3 years to consistently contribute. We need a legit No. 2 WR next season, not 3 seasons from now. I say keep Betts, get a 4th rounder (maybe 3rd, do I dream?) for Ramsey. Use the 2nd rounder on either a D-lineman or an O-lineman, whichever is the better option when the time comes, and address the WR and DE through free agency. We should also shop LaVar around, as much as I hate to see him go as a fan, our defense functions quite well without him and we could get an additional pick and/or a WR or O-lineman.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

Why shouldn't we expect at least a second round pick for Ramsey? While I agree with the switch to Brunnel, I don't think it was because Ramsey could not win games, I think it was because he didn't fit the Gibbs style offense and wasn't mobile enough. The guy is valuable and can start for a number of teams in the NFL (Miami, New Orleans, Jets...). I would bet that if Mike Martz landed a job and needed a QB with a rifle he might be interested.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!]Why shouldn't we expect at least a second round pick for Ramsey? While I agree with the switch to Brunnel, I don't think it was because Ramsey could not win games, I think it was because he didn't fit the Gibbs style offense and wasn't mobile enough. The guy is valuable and can start for a number of teams in the NFL (Miami, New Orleans, Jets...). I would bet that if Mike Martz landed a job and needed a QB with a rifle he might be interested.[/QUOTE]

I gotta disagree with you. Gibbs' offense doesn't thrive off of a quarterback that runs. Look at our past Super Bowl Quarterbacks: Theismann, Williams, and Rypien. None of those guys were scrambling quarterbacks. They were all pocket passers. I wouldn't expect to see a second rounder for Ramsey because no matter the reason, he hasn't proven anything yet.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

I am wondering if we go after Moulds, williams obviously has a connection with him from his time in buffalo, good or bad I don't know, he is a heck of a WR, whether he has dropped off or not talent wise I don't know, he really hasen't had anyone to get him the ball the last few years.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

moulds is on the older side.i like to see the skins take a chance on mike williams of the lions,but dont know if that trade for ramsey could work.good hands and could be a possesion receiver in this league

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

mike williams is terriblly slow, i'm actually kinda glad we skipped him. We still could have gotten a legit CB lower (Darrent williams, DF) and taken merriman :P but hindsight is 20/20

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]I gotta disagree with you. Gibbs' offense doesn't thrive off of a quarterback that runs. Look at our past Super Bowl Quarterbacks: Theismann, Williams, and Rypien. None of those guys were scrambling quarterbacks. .[/QUOTE]

Yo dude, Thiesman was not a pocket passer. He was a running QB, who thrived on the foll out pass. This was a staple of our offense. Gibbs does not pick his players based on his system rather he molds his system based on his players. They pick the athlete first then work around his skills.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

So if we get rid of Ramsey (who i dont mind) when the old man brunnell breaks his hip we have soup boy (cambell), whos never played an NFL game before come and try to pick up the pieces that will be scattered all over the floor and we will have a devisating losing season

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!]Why shouldn't we expect at least a second round pick for Ramsey? [/QUOTE]
What has he done to warrant a 2nd round pick?

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]What has he done to warrant a 2nd round pick?[/QUOTE]


He's done a heck of lot more than AJ Feeley ever did. And boasts a lot more potential as well.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

Reality is the Dolphins were stupid in giving up a 2nd rounder for the unproven Feeley.

I highly doubt we would be able to get a 2nd for Ramsey, if we can well that's great, but I'd be very happy with a 3rd.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

All of this debate is IMO the reason that we should have dealt him right after we got Brunell. I read a lot of articles from a lot different papers, Dallas in particular, that said that teams should consider giving up a first rounder for him. I thought then that he should have been traded and I feel even stronger now that his trade value has diminished a bit. We should have gotten a first rounder for him then and signed a veteran. Joe Gibbs knew then that he didn't want Pat to be the starter, I don't know why the Skins insisted on hanging on to him for so long and not letting him get a shot. If I were Ramsey, I wouldn't want to come back.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Reality is the Dolphins were stupid in giving up a 2nd rounder for the unproven Feeley.

I highly doubt we would be able to get a 2nd for Ramsey, if we can well that's great, but I'd be very happy with a 3rd.[/QUOTE]
Exactly.. The Dolphins got killed for that deal. I'd love for a team to give us a 2nd for him and would gladly be wrong, but I think a third rounder is the best we can hope for.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]All of this debate is IMO the reason that we should have dealt him right after we got Brunell. I read a lot of articles from a lot different papers, Dallas in particular, that said that teams should consider giving up a first rounder for him. I thought then that he should have been traded and I feel even stronger now that his trade value has diminished a bit. We should have gotten a first rounder for him then and signed a veteran. Joe Gibbs knew then that he didn't want Pat to be the starter, I don't know why the Skins insisted on hanging on to him for so long and not letting him get a shot. If I were Ramsey, I wouldn't want to come back.[/QUOTE]

That sounds good now but what if Brunell had been out for the year when he took that hit? Then Campbell would have been the starter for the rest of that game and the Philly game. I think that the team would have been better off with Ramsey as the #2 in that situation.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Reality is the Dolphins were stupid in giving up a 2nd rounder for the unproven Feeley.

I highly doubt we would be able to get a 2nd for Ramsey, if we can well that's great, but I'd be very happy with a 3rd.[/QUOTE]


i'd have to agree with that.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper]That sounds good now but what if Brunell had been out for the year when he took that hit? Then Campbell would have been the starter for the rest of that game and the Philly game. I think that the team would have been better off with Ramsey as the #2 in that situation.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but if they had dealt Ramsey last season then they would have had a veteran backup to Brunell. I see what you're saying, but I think that if they had gotten rid of Ramsey then, there's no way Gibbs wouldn't have looked to replace him with a vet.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

Draft

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]I agree with you. Considering that Gibbs was able to use a 3rd round pick to get Chris Cooley, I'd love to have a 3rd rounder for Ramsey.

Cooley is one of the best bargains on our roster right now.[/QUOTE]

actually, i believe we traded a 2nd rounder for the third rounder we used on cooley. so he cost a 2 inthe end.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Reality is the Dolphins were stupid in giving up a 2nd rounder for the unproven Feeley.

I highly doubt we would be able to get a 2nd for Ramsey, if we can well that's great, but I'd be very happy with a 3rd.[/QUOTE]

the dolphins got hosed. no doubt about that.

then again we traded schroeder to the raiders for jim lachey. ramsey might do well with their vertical offense. or whatever offense they put in with their next coach... he does have the kind of arm that al davis covets

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=CRT3]Charles Rodgers from Detroit. Young great talent with some risk on the Skins part.[/QUOTE]

i think rogers will get cut.

also, if you trade for rogers the first thing he will want is a new contract with a large bonus. better to let him hit free agency first. it will be cheaper.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=offiss]I believe Gibbs is going to target another WR, the question is who?[/QUOTE]

i agree gibbs is looking for another receiver but i think it will come via free agency

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!]Why shouldn't we expect at least a second round pick for Ramsey? While I agree with the switch to Brunnel, I don't think it was because Ramsey could not win games, I think it was because he didn't fit the Gibbs style offense and wasn't mobile enough. The guy is valuable and can start for a number of teams in the NFL (Miami, New Orleans, Jets...). I would bet that if Mike Martz landed a job and needed a QB with a rifle he might be interested.[/QUOTE]

i do not think we can expect a 2nd rounder for ramsey when all we were offered (supposedly) for him last year is a 6.... he has not done much to justify such a leap. best we can hope for is a conditional 3 based upon playing time.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=offiss]I am wondering if we go after Moulds, williams obviously has a connection with him from his time in buffalo, good or bad I don't know, he is a heck of a WR, whether he has dropped off or not talent wise I don't know, he really hasen't had anyone to get him the ball the last few years.[/QUOTE]


moulds would be ideal IMHO... but buffalo has to cut him first

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=dmek25]moulds is on the older side.i like to see the skins take a chance on mike williams of the lions,but dont know if that trade for ramsey could work.good hands and could be a possesion receiver in this league[/QUOTE]

do you really think detroit will part with a first rounder after just 1 year? with the same GM in place? they would pillory millen for doing that.

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]mike williams is terriblly slow, i'm actually kinda glad we skipped him. We still could have gotten a legit CB lower (Darrent williams, DF) and taken merriman :P but hindsight is 20/20[/QUOTE]

yes merriman was a great pick but remember we had great need at corner and i think rogers is going to turn out to be a great pick

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Redskin]So if we get rid of Ramsey (who i dont mind) when the old man brunnell breaks his hip we have soup boy (cambell), whos never played an NFL game before come and try to pick up the pieces that will be scattered all over the floor and we will have a devisating losing season[/QUOTE]


if we trade or dump ramsey for certain we are gonna pick up a vet as insurance. maybe gus. maybe dilfer. maybe batch... someone with experience as a hedge

Re: The perfect trade for Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=shallyshal]yes merriman was a great pick but remember we had great need at corner and i think rogers is going to turn out to be a great pick[/QUOTE]

yeah but like i said, foxworth and darrent Williams went much later than our next pick and are both quality and neither has been out as much as rogers this year.