Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

I've often wondered how effective all the tests, iq & otherwise, are. e.g., a qb has to not only see the field w/great peripheral vision, but also have the timeliness thru quick reflexes to do so before his ass is horizontal.
I think Ramsey is bright enough for the job, but is slow in all the decision making skills necessary, which ultimatley have little to do w/i.q. & general cognitive aptitude.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=bigm29]All i know is tim hasselback is a free agent and hes coming back to be our 3rd stringer baby![/QUOTE]

he's a good #3...

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]The first score is usually the most telling, an individual can actually memorize the test or there abouts and increase his score which really doesn't say much for the test the second go round.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't give the same exact test twice.

It's like any standardized test, you can learn techniques to take the test more effectively, so that's why guys will typically do better the 2nd time around.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I'm pretty sure they wouldn't give the same exact test twice.

It's like any standardized test, you can learn techniques to take the test more effectively, so that's why guys will typically do better the 2nd time around.[/QUOTE]

The poster who wrote that Campbell's improvement from a 14 to a 28 put the value of the test in doubt was correct. I'd bet that the third test was given to rule out the possibility of cheating...getting an advance copy of the actual test he took. Since he scored a 27 on his third try, the low 14 is the mark you'd question.

Yes, you can learn strategies to improve your score on any test, but you don't go from a 14 to a 28. If this happened often, you'd toss the test out as worthless. But the test has been used by businesses for several years and has a good track record, so Campbell's 14 score is a mystery.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12]I think Ramsey is bright enough for the job, but is slow in all the decision making skills necessary, which ultimatley have little to do w/i.q. & general cognitive aptitude.[/QUOTE]

I've read this before from a couple of other posters and wondered about it. Is it possible for you to explain how a spectator can tell that Ramsey is slow in his decision-making skills?

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]I've read this before from a couple of other posters and wondered about it. Is it possible for you to explain how a spectator can tell that Ramsey is slow in his decision-making skills?[/QUOTE]

I'd kinda have to agree... there's a difference before slow and bad decisions.

he held on to the ball forever (earlier on at least) cause he was always waiting on guys to get downfield...


and you can go from a 14 to a 28 easily. That why SAT classes are offered (they work). You literally take about an hour on strategy and then just answer thousands of questions... take a test, review it, take another one...

Its sorta like preparing for jeopardy or it's academic... for those you just memorize list after list of category info (answers) if you want to do well.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

I just heard on the TK show that PR will be out of here by Friday. I guess we'll see.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

Anybody wanna buy a Patrick Ramsey jersey??

I'll sell it to you real cheap. ;)

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Anybody wanna buy a Patrick Ramsey jersey??

I'll sell it to you real cheap. ;)[/QUOTE]

I have a Coles jersey...maybe we could do a package deal? :)

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

I don't know that he is slow in his reads or not. But John "the duck" Clayton says he is. And if Salisbury agrees with him, then there must be some merit to it.

Again, watch his feet. He is scared of making the decision. Don't the coaches tell him how many steps to take. Ive never heard of the 1000 step shuffle within 2 seconds. But Patrick has mastered it.

You know what top tier QB had mastered the 1000 step shuffle this past post season don't you? Let me give you a hint, Peyton Manning.

I guess when your little feet are going up and down constantly, because you are not relaxed, it can be difficult to plant and throw accurately.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

This is a bad time to be a free agent quarterback. The market is flooded with talent. Ramsey has got to be way down on the list. Here is a list of the most likely free agents and my best guess at a pecking order.
1. Daunte Culpepper
2. Drew Brees
3. Steve McNair
4. Aaron Brooks
5. Brian Griese
6. Jon Kitna
7. Chad Pennington

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Monksdown]I don't know that he is slow in his reads or not. But John "the duck" Clayton says he is. And if Salisbury agrees with him, then there must be some merit to it.

Again, watch his feet. He is scared of making the decision. Don't the coaches tell him how many steps to take. Ive never heard of the 1000 step shuffle within 2 seconds. But Patrick has mastered it.

You know what top tier QB had mastered the 1000 step shuffle this past post season don't you? Let me give you a hint, Peyton Manning.

I guess when your little feet are going up and down constantly, because you are not relaxed, it can be difficult to plant and throw accurately.[/QUOTE]

That's always been the knock on him, he's not decisive enough in the pocket. I know some will want to argue he doesn't have enough experience and while that may hold some water to a degree, for a guy who's been in the league for 4 years you would expect him to have improved in that area more than he has.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

Remove Daunte from your list. Heard this morning he just had a big pay day. Likely to stay.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[url="http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11579600/"]Report: Vikings to pay Culpepper's roster bonus[/url]

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

daunte, brees, and mcnair are probably staying.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]That's always been the knock on him, he's not decisive enough in the pocket. I know some will want to argue he doesn't have enough experience and while that may hold some water to a degree, for a guy who's been in the league for 4 years you would expect him to have improved in that area more than he has.[/QUOTE]

To his credit in his first two years in the league he was asked to hold on to the ball as long as possible to get something or someone open down the field. He was adjusting to the new system when he took over for Brunell year before last, and played against the NFLs top defenses going 3-4. he never really got a shot last year to play. He is not going to be offerred a starting job, he will be offerred a chance to earn the spot, and we may get a 4th to 6th rounder. which we should take.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Monksdown]I don't know that he is slow in his reads or not. But John "the duck" Clayton says he is. And if Salisbury agrees with him, then there must be some merit to it.

Again, watch his feet. He is scared of making the decision. Don't the coaches tell him how many steps to take. Ive never heard of the 1000 step shuffle within 2 seconds. But Patrick has mastered it.

You know what top tier QB had mastered the 1000 step shuffle this past post season don't you? Let me give you a hint, Peyton Manning.

I guess when your little feet are going up and down constantly, because you are not relaxed, it can be difficult to plant and throw accurately.[/QUOTE]

Well, if Salisbury and Clayton agree, I guess we can take that to the bank [forgive the sarcasm].

To answer your question...no...coaches don't tell a QB to take a seven-step drop and then plant. The QB might have four reads and he can't plant until he picks one. And, under pressure they bounce because it enables them to move quickly just as boxers stay on their toes before they plant to throw a punch.

One way for a QB to appear decisive is to cheat on his reads. Sliding quickly from your primary to your checkdown will do it. Tim Hassleback won a job with us by getting rid of the ball quickly, like a West Coast QB (I wonder who taught him that). There's no way in hell he was running through all his reads.

When Ramsey started, the ball was being distributed to different receivers. That's an indication that he was running through all his reads. Given our protection problems, it was probably a mistake on his part due to lack of experience.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic]To his credit in his first two years in the league he was asked to hold on to the ball as long as possible to get something or someone open down the field. He was adjusting to the new system when he took over for Brunell year before last, and played against the NFLs top defenses going 3-4. he never really got a shot last year to play. He is not going to be offerred a starting job, he will be offerred a chance to earn the spot, and we may get a 4th to 6th rounder. which we should take.[/QUOTE]

for a 6th rounder we might as well keep him.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]
One way for a QB to appear decisive is to cheat on his reads. Sliding quickly from your primary to your checkdown will do it. Tim Hassleback won a job with us by getting rid of the ball quickly, like a West Coast QB (I wonder who taught him that). There's no way in hell he was running through all his reads.
[/QUOTE]

in timmy's defense, he didn't really have the arm to get the ball to anyone else after they'd already had 1 second to run off the line ;)

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]in timmy's defense, he didn't really have the arm to get the ball to anyone else after they'd already had 1 second to run off the line ;)[/QUOTE]

You have a point.

Actually, with today's blitzing defenses, I think a West Coast approach makes sense. Too many slow-developing pass plays puts a whole lot of pressure on the O line.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]for a 6th rounder we might as well keep him.[/QUOTE]

There is nothing in this world that is going to keep PR in Washington. He's gone one way or another no matter what.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=irish]There is nothing in this world that is going to keep PR in Washington. He's gone one way or another no matter what.[/QUOTE]

never say never. everyone though he'd be gone when gibbs got brunell... everyone thought he'd be gone when campbell came in. gibbs said if he doesn't get value, he's going to keep him here.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]never say never. everyone though he'd be gone when gibbs got brunell... everyone thought he'd be gone when campbell came in. gibbs said if he doesn't get value, he's going to keep him here.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure Gibbs will get the choice. As far as I know PR is a free agent and he just wont sign any kind of a deal with the skins. PR does not want to be here and he'll go anywhere but here.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=irish]I'm not sure Gibbs will get the choice. As far as I know PR is a free agent and he just wont sign any kind of a deal with the skins. PR does not want to be here and he'll go anywhere but here.[/QUOTE]

He's not a FA, but he's in the final year of his contract. The team is already committed to Brunell and Campbell, though, and it would make no sense to keep Ramsey inactive as a #3.

As my Post No. 1 in this thread says. Ramsey can make a trade work for everyone if he's willing to sign an extension with his new team, perhaps one heavy on incentives for performance rather than salary and bonus.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=irish]I'm not sure Gibbs will get the choice. As far as I know PR is a free agent and he just wont sign any kind of a deal with the skins. PR does not want to be here and he'll go anywhere but here.[/QUOTE]

he's in the last year of his current deal, he has no say, its all at gibbs's descretion.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]Well, if Salisbury and Clayton agree, I guess we can take that to the bank [forgive the sarcasm].

To answer your question...no...coaches don't tell a QB to take a seven-step drop and then plant. The QB might have four reads and he can't plant until he picks one. And, under pressure they bounce because it enables them to move quickly just as boxers stay on their toes before they plant to throw a punch.

One way for a QB to appear decisive is to cheat on his reads. Sliding quickly from your primary to your checkdown will do it. Tim Hassleback won a job with us by getting rid of the ball quickly, like a West Coast QB (I wonder who taught him that). There's no way in hell he was running through all his reads.

When Ramsey started, the ball was being distributed to different receivers. That's an indication that he was running through all his reads. Given our protection problems, it was probably a mistake on his part due to lack of experience.[/QUOTE]

Nice job with that huddle, I can see you understand the intracasies of the QB position. 1 big reason I have been a big Ramsey supporter is because he's shown the ability to get the job done when he does have reasonable protection, he has played behind some of the worse lines in the NFL during his tenure. Your point about cheating your reads are dead on, but I will elaborate, Brunell is the king of cheating on his reads, he has 1 primary and thats Moss, after that it's Cooley or out of bounds, and despite that no one seems to realize Brunell has happy feet to match anyone. through the years most of Gibbs QB's have had happy feet, problem? Gibbs ask's them to hold the ball longer than the average QB, in so doing the QB really has to have a strong trust in the O-line for him to be comfortable knowing the defense is closing in on him, it's a tough thing to ask a QB not to get happy feet under those type of circumastances, but when everything is clicking it's a beautiful offense to watch, and in order to make all that work a QB has to have experience and playing time with that offense and build a trust with the players in it, Patrick hasen't been given that opportunity.

No way I trade Patrick for a #3 or worse, he's to valuable as a backup. Further more we haven't proved we are capable of finding talent beyond the second round, judging from past history we might as well give him away because we will probably end up cutting whoever we draft with his pick if it's beyond the second round.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

Sorry, I thought he was a FA.

I do think that PR will do whatever he needs to do to get out of DC. He knows he's going nowhere here and he has a silly notion that he can actually start in the NFL (I'm not sure he can even be a good backup) so he will have to do what he needs to do (contractually) to try to become a starter somewhere.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]
No way I trade Patrick for a #3 or worse, he's to valuable as a backup. Further more we haven't proved we are capable of finding talent beyond the second round, judging from past history we might as well give him away because we will probably end up cutting whoever we draft with his pick if it's beyond the second round.[/QUOTE]


running QBs tend to go 1,2, run, as people have brought up the "maybe its brunell" theory of limited WR production from time to time.

chris cooley was a 3rd rounder. the skins' 4th 5th and 7th are till on the team (though not productive in any way as of yet).

and irish, ramsey is 10-14, that's actually REALLY good for a backup. a lot of those wins came under spurrier who didn't really care about having talent on his teams.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]for a 6th rounder we might as well keep him.[/QUOTE]

Why? wouldn't you rather get a pick that could possibly turn into some thing, or would you rather lose him outright and get absolutely nothing for a 1st rounder you took a few years ago. If we keep him, he is a free agent next year and leaves, then we get nada!! Get something, especially if you aren't going to use him.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]running QBs tend to go 1,2, run, as people have brought up the "maybe its brunell" theory of limited WR production from time to time.

chris cooley was a 3rd rounder. the skins' 4th 5th and 7th are till on the team (though not productive in any way as of yet).

and irish, ramsey is 10-14, that's actually REALLY good for a backup. a lot of those wins came under spurrier who didn't really care about having talent on his teams.[/QUOTE]

Is that his record only as a backup or a overall? The number 1 job for a back up is to not lose games by making stupid mistakes (he does not need to win the game, just not lose it) and PR has a knack for making stupid mistakes (which is why Gibbs is done with him).

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]Well, if Salisbury and Clayton agree, I guess we can take that to the bank [forgive the sarcasm].

To answer your question...no...coaches don't tell a QB to take a seven-step drop and then plant. The QB might have four reads and he can't plant until he picks one. And, under pressure they bounce because it enables them to move quickly just as boxers stay on their toes before they plant to throw a punch.

One way for a QB to appear decisive is to cheat on his reads. Sliding quickly from your primary to your checkdown will do it. Tim Hassleback won a job with us by getting rid of the ball quickly, like a West Coast QB (I wonder who taught him that). There's no way in hell he was running through all his reads.

When Ramsey started, the ball was being distributed to different receivers. That's an indication that he was running through all his reads. Given our protection problems, it was probably a mistake on his part due to lack of experience.[/QUOTE]

I watched a Blitz a few weeks ago, when they showed how noticeably worse Peyton was when he was bouncing in the Playoffs, vs how he normally places his feet. I would contest that many times, Patrick doesnt even plant. he just "arms" it away from himself. And his inaccuracy when doing this is as obvious as his td/int ratio.

And i would argue that coaches do instruct their qb's on how many drop steps to take while reading a particular defense.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

Duplicate post, sorry.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

:) I would like to see Antwaan as our 3rd.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic]Why? wouldn't you rather get a pick that could possibly turn into some thing, or would you rather lose him outright and get absolutely nothing for a 1st rounder you took a few years ago. If we keep him, he is a free agent next year and leaves, then we get nada!! Get something, especially if you aren't going to use him.[/QUOTE]

1 year with him as the backup is probably worth more than we'll get out of a 6th rounder.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=irish]Is that his record only as a backup or a overall? The number 1 job for a back up is to not lose games by making stupid mistakes (he does not need to win the game, just not lose it) and PR has a knack for making stupid mistakes (which is why Gibbs is done with him).[/QUOTE]

that's his record for games started... how would you differentiate a backup from a starter as far as W/L goes?

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

Does anyone know what we get if he leaves as a free agent?
In the current cba, teams are awarded extra draft picks based on free agent departures. I can't recall the term for this, but I wonder what we'd get for losing a former 1st rounder?

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

That's a good question. I would think most of the value would be based on worth, not where he was drafted.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]I think Ramsey would be smart to sign a new deal with the Dolphins, say for three years, heavily weighted toward incentives. If he were willing to do that to make the trade work, I think the Dolphins would consider the three pick a bargain price.




Well, there are many other positions in between those you mention. I don't have any doubt that Joe sees his Brunell-Ramsey decisions as being best for the team. It isn't an ego thing with him. But my not-so-humble opinion is that he's wrong.

I'm not a stats guy. Most individual statistics are worthless in my book. One exception I make is wins and losses. In 23 starts Ramsey was 10-13 (Chicago start last season not included). Over the same span, the team was 8-17 in games not started by Patrick.

I haven't seen a superstar performance, but Patrick was our best QB over a three year span and, although I'm resigned to his leaving, I think he might still be the best on our roster.[/QUOTE]We were 10-6 this year so how do you get the 8 wins when Ramsey was not the starter and what QB's do you have in that mix a couple of Spurier boys.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

I think Ramsey will bring much more than a 6th rounder.

A 2nd rounder would be ideal but is probably unlikely.

A 3rd or a 4th is pretty reasonable. At this point I'd take what I could get for him... he deserves the chance to start new somewhere else and he's outta here after this year anyway.

Re: Does Ramsey Have Some Trade Control?
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12]Does anyone know what we get if he leaves as a free agent?
In the current cba, teams are awarded extra draft picks based on free agent departures. I can't recall the term for this, but I wonder what we'd get for losing a former 1st rounder?[/QUOTE]

I think its based on who you lose and who you get in free agency as well as the production of the guys that left.

those picks are 3rd-6th rounders and decided on behind closed doors and i'd assume with ESP and arcane powers of some sort.