Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]And, young Mark Brunell got a chance to prove himself in Jacksonville because some dumb ass in Green Bay didn't give it to him.[/QUOTE]


Farve got the buisness from atlanta as well. Brees was horrible and would have been cut if it wasen't for a holdout by Rivers in 2004.

Bottom line does anyone believe that Brunell is the answer? Good luck if you do, Brunell is NO difference maker on the field, the day we win a SB with Brunell is the same day we could win one without him.

Anyone who thinks Ramsey recieved fair treatment is only kidding themselves. Gibbs has a major bias for Brunell, if you want to say that Gibbs is on the money about Ramsey, and he is no good, fine, but who really believes that Brunell is any good? Does anyone really believe that just because Gibbs marches Brunell out on that field every sunday that he's the goods?

Im tired of hearing about Ramseys mistakes, as if Brunell didn't make the same mistakes or worse when he was on the field, the difference is Gibbs was willing to overlook Brunells mistakes, but no Ramseys.

And fianlly why is Ramsey out of here? Because Gibbs had to bribe him to keep his mouth shut last season in return for freedom from our organazation in the offseason.

Gibbs in his handling of Ramsey absolutly destroyed any value Ramsey had as if he had some kind of vendetta against the guy, now we pigeon hole ouselves with the signing of Collins, and Collins is going to be our #2 QB? That's right Todd Collins is going to be our #2 what a comforting feeling knowing how brittle Brunell is at this point in his carreer, If Campbell isn't ready to take over the starting job this season we have a problem, and Gibbs has a problem as far as his talent evaluation goes, but we will just have to wait and see, I would love for Ramsey to find a nice fit for himself. we will regreat this upcoming season when he's no longer around because I don't believe Brunell will last another season.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]And, young Mark Brunell got a chance to prove himself in Jacksonville because some dumb ass in Green Bay didn't give it to him.[/QUOTE]

That statement right there is a contender for the Schneed10 smackdown of the day award.

Some dumbass in Green Bay? Um at the time, that would have been Mike Holmgren. And at the time, he let Brunell go because HE HAD BRETT FAVRE. Who only led the team to a Super Bowl victory, of all things.

Jesus H Christ. I can't believe what I'm reading. But let's go with the Green Bay comparison for a minute. If Gibbs lets Ramsey go and Ramsey gets to the conference Championship game, while the QB Gibbs chose (doesn't matter if it's Brunell or Campbell) won us a Superbowl in the next few years, wouldn't you be happy? Seems the Green Bay comparison goes right to my argument.

If Ramsey is the one that goes on and wins a Super Bowl while we spin our wheels at QB, then I can see why we'd all be way up in arms over the decision. But like Holmgren, Gibbs is letting a QB go because he thinks the other QBs he currently has can win a Super Bowl. Time will tell if it's the right decision.

But if you're placing your money on Ramsey to win that one, you're in disagreement with just about every GM in the league.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Farve got the buisness from atlanta as well. Brees was horrible and would have been cut if it wasen't for a holdout by Rivers in 2004.

Bottom line does anyone believe that Brunell is the answer? Good luck if you do, Brunell is NO difference maker on the field, the day we win a SB with Brunell is the same day we could win one without him.

Anyone who thinks Ramsey recieved fair treatment is only kidding themselves. Gibbs has a major bias for Brunell, if you want to say that Gibbs is on the money about Ramsey, and he is no good, fine, but who really believes that Brunell is any good? Does anyone really believe that just because Gibbs marches Brunell out on that field every sunday that he's the goods?

Im tired of hearing about Ramseys mistakes, as if Brunell didn't make the same mistakes or worse when he was on the field, the difference is Gibbs was willing to overlook Brunells mistakes, but no Ramseys.

And fianlly why is Ramsey out of here? Because Gibbs had to bribe him to keep his mouth shut last season in return for freedom from our organazation in the offseason.

Gibbs in his handling of Ramsey absolutly destroyed any value Ramsey had as if he had some kind of vendetta against the guy, now we pigeon hole ouselves with the signing of Collins, and Collins is going to be our #2 QB? That's right Todd Collins is going to be our #2 what a comforting feeling knowing how brittle Brunell is at this point in his carreer, If Campbell isn't ready to take over the starting job this season we have a problem, and Gibbs has a problem as far as his talent evaluation goes, but we will just have to wait and see, I would love for Ramsey to find a nice fit for himself. we will regreat this upcoming season when he's no longer around because I don't believe Brunell will last another season.[/QUOTE]

:blah: :blah: :blah: , [b][size=4]SQUAWK!!![/size][/b]

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Farve got the buisness from atlanta as well. Brees was horrible and would have been cut if it wasen't for a holdout by Rivers in 2004.

Bottom line does anyone believe that Brunell is the answer? Good luck if you do, Brunell is NO difference maker on the field, the day we win a SB with Brunell is the same day we could win one without him.

Anyone who thinks Ramsey recieved fair treatment is only kidding themselves. Gibbs has a major bias for Brunell, if you want to say that Gibbs is on the money about Ramsey, and he is no good, fine, but who really believes that Brunell is any good? Does anyone really believe that just because Gibbs marches Brunell out on that field every sunday that he's the goods?

Im tired of hearing about Ramseys mistakes, as if Brunell didn't make the same mistakes or worse when he was on the field, the difference is Gibbs was willing to overlook Brunells mistakes, but no Ramseys.

And fianlly why is Ramsey out of here? Because Gibbs had to bribe him to keep his mouth shut last season in return for freedom from our organazation in the offseason.

Gibbs in his handling of Ramsey absolutly destroyed any value Ramsey had as if he had some kind of vendetta against the guy, now we pigeon hole ouselves with the signing of Collins, and Collins is going to be our #2 QB? That's right Todd Collins is going to be our #2 what a comforting feeling knowing how brittle Brunell is at this point in his carreer, If Campbell isn't ready to take over the starting job this season we have a problem, and Gibbs has a problem as far as his talent evaluation goes, but we will just have to wait and see, I would love for Ramsey to find a nice fit for himself. we will regreat this upcoming season when he's no longer around because I don't believe Brunell will last another season.[/QUOTE]

Raise your hand if you think Ramsey didn't get fair treatment is BS

Did Gibbs bribe him with Portis' steroids?

I don't know much we really regretted 2005, getting to the playoffs for the first time since 1999, finishing with a winning record...all without Ramsey. So I doubt we'll regret 2006 without him again. Of course, apparently we would have been 14-2 and world champs with Ramsey

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Gibbs in his handling of Ramsey absolutly destroyed any value Ramsey had as if he had some kind of vendetta against the guy, now we pigeon hole ouselves with the signing of Collins,[b] and Collins is going to be our #2 QB? That's right Todd Collins is going to be our #2 what a comforting feeling knowing how brittle Brunell is at this point in his carreer[/b], If Campbell isn't ready to take over the starting job this season we have a problem, and Gibbs has a problem as far as his talent evaluation goes, but we will just have to wait and see, I would love for Ramsey to find a nice fit for himself. we will regreat this upcoming season when he's no longer around because I don't believe Brunell will last another season.[/QUOTE]

I'm just messing with you, Offiss. Only because you say the same things all the time.

A serious note though. The bolded part of your post seems to assume that Campbell is total trash and isn't even ready to be the #2. I think that's a terrible assumption to make. Are you basing that on the Schefter report? Because I don't think it's accurate in the least.

You seem to be so quick to defend Ramsey, saying he didn't have a fair shot. And yet you don't seem willing to give Campbell a chance to prove himself in your mind at all. That's a true sign that you're a Ramsey homer.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

Brees horrible?!?!??! :doh:

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]the day we win a SB with Brunell is the same day we could win one without him.[/QUOTE]

I'll take a SB win regardless of who's playing QB, hell I'd take it if you suited up and played! LOL

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee]I think that in looking for a villain in the Ramsey situation, we are forgetting the facts.

1) Gibbs gave the job, grudingly, to Ramsey after Brunell's horrible 2004 season - one that was marred by injury. Clearly he preferred Brunell's decision-making, but Ramsey's arm was measurably better than Brunell's.

2) Ramsey made several mistakes in his opening game - understandable mistakes, but mistakes nonetheless. Ramsey threw an interception on his second pass of the game, and his other two drives ended with fumbles, including the one on his injury that was recovered by Chicago. Ramsey finished 6 of 11 for 105 yards with two sacks and a 49.4 passer rating. Brunell, while not explosive, managed three scoring drives. Error-free football wins the day, and Brunell emerges the starter.

3) Trade overtures from the Jets (and other teams) at the deadline, would have left the team scrambling for a credible backup. The only other QB on the roster was Campbell, who was not ready for the job. While the offers were reportedly better than the ones we are hearing now, we would have left the franchise to a player who wasn't healthy enough to finish the previous year, with a rookie or someone off the street to replace him in case of injury.

Though we didn't [u]need[/u] Ramsey on the team (he played only sparingly in blowouts the remainder of the season), that couldn't have been clear in late September, when the Jets were making overtures. Keeping Ramsey wasn't a question of Gibbs trying to screw Ramsey or anyone else, it was Gibbs trying to field the best roster he could in 2005.[/QUOTE]

Rational thinking is underrated, keep it up

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=JET]The real benefit to Ramsey leaving is that Matty won't have to rant about this anymore. It'll make things much easier on the Gibbs fanboys.[/QUOTE]

Hell yeah I'm an unapologetic fanboy of Gibbs, but you know 3 Super Bowl wins will do that to you.

What I don't understand is what Ramsey has done to have earned such a fanboy following.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Raise your hand if you think Ramsey didn't get fair treatment is BS[/QUOTE]

I mentioned this in another thread.

A poll on extremeskins, voted on by about 250 fans, showed that fans thought Ramsey had [u]not [/u]had a fair shot as a Redskin by a margin of almost exactly 2 - 1.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

Well then it's over and done, if ES said it, it's gotta be true!

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]I mentioned this in another thread.

A poll on extremeskins, voted on by about 250 fans, showed that fans thought Ramsey had [u]not [/u]had a fair shot as a Redskin by a margin of almost exactly 2 - 1.[/QUOTE]

I don't doubt that. I'd side with the 2 in that case. But it's not the important question. The question is who gives us a better shot at winning.

I'm sorry that poor Patrick's feelings got hurt and he didn't get the chance he deserved because he's such a nice guy and a hard worker; but Jimmy cracked corn and I don't care. We went 10-6 with Brunell and I'm looking forward to better with either him or Campbell.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]I don't doubt that. I'd side with the 2 in that case. But it's not the important question. The question is who gives us a better shot at winning.

I'm sorry that poor Patrick's feelings got hurt and he didn't get the chance he deserved because he's such a nice guy and a hard worker; but Jimmy cracked corn and I don't care. We went 10-6 with Brunell and I'm looking forward to better with either him or Campbell.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

Instead of daydreaming about coulda, shoulda, woulda with Ramsey, how about we focus on what did happen with Brunell, and that's a playoff appearance.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]What I don't understand is what Ramsey has done to have earned such a fanboy following.[/QUOTE]

WORD.

My theory is that everyone thinks he's a nice guy, and a hard worker, and a likeable kid. And after what Spurrier put him through, and how he kept fighting, he earned admiration from fans. So he's an emotional favorite for people, they root for him to do well because it would make them feel good.

That and I bet that anyone who has been spurned by management in their lives (laid off, passed over for promotion, etc) despite their hard work and dedication probably identifies with Ramsey.

Oh well he's gone. I'm over it. 10-6, and looking for more.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]I mentioned this in another thread.

A poll on extremeskins, voted on by about 250 fans, showed that fans thought Ramsey had [u]not [/u]had a fair shot as a Redskin by a margin of almost exactly 2 - 1.[/QUOTE]
Excellent point. As we all know, only those who are qualified to make such a call would even [u]think[/u] about answering an internet poll question.

Huddle (and everyone else), I [u]like[/u] Ramsey a whole lot, and think he could've been a quality NFL starter. He wasn't well coached, and he wasn't protected in his first few years, and it cost him confidence - both his own, and that of his teammates. He may still do well in this league, but it's best for him and for us to part ways.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]WORD.

My theory is that everyone thinks he's a nice guy, and a hard worker, and a likeable kid. And after what Spurrier put him through, and how he kept fighting, he earned admiration from fans. So he's an emotional favorite for people, they root for him to do well because it would make them feel good.

That and I bet that anyone who has been spurned by management in their lives (laid off, passed over for promotion, etc) despite their hard work and dedication probably identifies with Ramsey.

Oh well he's gone. I'm over it. 10-6, and looking for more.[/QUOTE]

Just to elaborate, I'm a fan of Ramsey myself because of those reasons you mentioned, but, setting the emotional part of it aside, I want what's best for this football team. And if the powers that be think Ramsey isn't the answer at QB for us, so be it.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Just to elaborate, I'm a fan of Ramsey myself because of those reasons you mentioned, but, setting the emotional part of it aside, I want what's best for this football team. And if the powers that be think Ramsey isn't the answer at QB for us, so be it.[/QUOTE]

That's me in a nutshell too. The emotional side of me wants to see him go on and do well elsewhere. But the fan in me wants to see wins, and the fan in me agrees with Gibbs' decision: we're better off with Brunell now and Campbell as our future.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

It seems as the coaches around the NFL agree with Gibbs.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

Offiss, to attribute Gibbs treatment of Ramsey to malice is to stray beyond what seems reasonable. It doesn't fit Gibbs character and it has hurt the team in terms of what they can get trade-wise for Ramsey. I didn't much care for Gibbs preference for Brunell myself, but we'll never know if the season would have been better, the same, or worse with Ramsey at the helm. It's really an exercise in aggravation to waste time wondering about it.

And yet I did anyway. I did a bit of stat comparison, just out of morbid curiousity. Here are some numbers from Ramsey in 2004 (the second line is what his stats might have looked like for 16 games) and Brunell in 2005. I figure the addition of Moss and Rabach, and return of Jansen balance out Brunells injury. By that I mean Brunells numbers in 2004 were artificially bad, so with the increase in talent in 2005 things come close to evening out. There are flaws in this comparison, but anyway:

QB_____Games Yds TDs Ints Fumbles lost yds/game rating sacked yds
Ramsey_9____1665_10_11__6______1___185______74.8__23____137
_______16___2960_18_20__11_____2___ 185______74.8__41____244

Brunell_16____3050_23_10__10_____6___190.6_____85.9__27____213

Yardage wise things are about on par. The fumbles are about even. Brunell lost more but the difference in a fumble being a turnover versus being recovered by the offense are usually due to chance, so I don't hold this stat against Mark.

The TD-interception ratio and sacks are what really jump out at me. Brunell is much better at avoiding interceptions. I always thought that Ramsey would make up for this difference with the yards he gained, but I was wrong. The sacks are funny, in a sad way. Brunell lost quite a few more yards per sack, probably because of the extra deep drops he takes.

I started this comparison thinking that it would show Ramsey the superior QB, but I was wrong. On paper Brunell outperformed him. It goes to show how far perception can be from reality.

Edit: My formatting skillz are subpar

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]WORD.

My theory is that everyone thinks he's a nice guy, and a hard worker, and a likeable kid. And after what Spurrier put him through, and how he kept fighting, he earned admiration from fans. So he's an emotional favorite for people, they root for him to do well because it would make them feel good.

That and I bet that anyone who has been spurned by management in their lives (laid off, passed over for promotion, etc) despite their hard work and dedication probably identifies with Ramsey.

Oh well he's gone. I'm over it. 10-6, and looking for more.[/QUOTE]

I agree. But don't feel bad for him, he's making millions while we're only making half of what he does (well, only I am I guess). He will sign on with someone else and at least sign a new contract to make a few more million and even if he is a bust, he has some good starting out money to find something else to do in his early to middle 30's. Wait, now this is starting to depress me - can I get a fanclub, I am being treated unfairly at work too and I work damn hard. ... maybe Peyton Manning can start it ?

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]I don't doubt that. I'd side with the 2 in that case. But it's not the important question. The question is who gives us a better shot at winning.

I'm sorry that poor Patrick's feelings got hurt and he didn't get the chance he deserved because he's such a nice guy and a hard worker; but Jimmy cracked corn and I don't care. We went 10-6 with Brunell and I'm looking forward to better with either him or Campbell.[/QUOTE]

You miss the point.

We invested a number one draft choice in him and we still aren't sure, after four years, that he isn't our best QB (especially since he proved himself our best for three years running).

Sure, let's move on and give Campbell a fair shot. I've seen Brunell's game.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Just to elaborate, I'm a fan of Ramsey myself because of those reasons you mentioned, but, setting the emotional part of it aside, I want what's best for this football team. And if the powers that be think Ramsey isn't the answer at QB for us, so be it.[/QUOTE]

I really wanted Ramsey to do well here. I'm not going to say he let me down per se, but when he was annointed the team's starter last spring I thought he'd come out guns blazing come training camp/preseason time and put so much distance between him and brunell/campbell there would be no debate. And yet, I didn't feel like I saw a QB who was any better than that last game against Minnesota. Meanwhile Brunell got healthy and fought hard to claim his job back.

I still think it was a mistake of Gibbs to name Ramsey the starter but it was also a mistake on Ramsey's part not to claim that title on the field last summer and leave no doubt in anyone's mind that he should be the guy.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

Why do we keep beating a Maurice Clarrett ... um I mean dead horse ?... get it bronco... horse... you know a bronco's a h... forget it, I guess the joke aint funny if you have to explain it.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]You miss the point.

We invested a number one draft choice in him and we still aren't sure, after four years, that he isn't our best QB (especially since he proved himself our best for three years running).

Sure, let's move on and give Campbell a fair shot. I've seen Brunell's game.[/QUOTE]

Now you're getting into an argument over how good Brunell is. And if you're arguing that he's worthless, you don't have any ground to stand on. 23 TDs and 10 INTs. It speaks for itself.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]Now you're getting into an argument over how good Brunell is. And if you're arguing that he's worthless, you don't have any ground to stand on. 23 TDs and 10 INTs. It speaks for itself.[/QUOTE]

Individual stats don't say anything to me. I watch the game.

I saw a QB who played at an all-pro level in the early part of the season but one whose game is too limited, and thus easily defended, at this stage of his career.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]Individual stats don't say anything to me. I watch the game.

I saw a QB who played at an all-pro level in the early part of the season but one whose game is too limited, and thus easily defended, at this stage of his career.[/QUOTE]
I watch the games too and what I saw in Ramsey is a QB with no confidence, no pocket presence, poor decision making and a penchant for turning the ball over. I hope he turns out to be a decent QB somewhere, but I think he's Gus Frerotte, a servicable sometime starter but a solid backup. That's really not bad, Frerotte has had a 10 year career and made millions of dollars.. No-one is feeling too sorry for him.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I really wanted Ramsey to do well here. I'm not going to say he let me down per se, but when he was annointed the team's starter last spring I thought he'd come out guns blazing come training camp/preseason time and put so much distance between him and brunell/campbell there would be no debate. And yet, I didn't feel like I saw a QB who was any better than that last game against Minnesota. Meanwhile Brunell got healthy and fought hard to claim his job back.

I still think it was a mistake of Gibbs to name Ramsey the starter but it was also a mistake on Ramsey's part not to claim that title on the field last summer and leave no doubt in anyone's mind that he should be the guy.[/QUOTE]

A-friggin-men.

Ramsey had plenty of chances. Don't forget that when Brunell first got here, Gibbs declared the 2004 preseason to be open competition for the two QBs. Ramsey did nothing but stink it up, and in the process gave every reason for Gibbs to doubt him.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]I watch the games too and what I saw in Ramsey is a QB with no confidence, no pocket presence, poor decision making and a penchant for turning the ball over. I hope he turns out to be a decent QB somewhere, but I think he's Gus Frerotte, a servicable sometime starter but a solid backup. That's really not bad, Frerotte has had a 10 year career and made millions of dollars.. No-one is feeling too sorry for him.[/QUOTE]

In Ramsey I saw a guy who tended to start slow and gain confidence and momentum as the game progressed. I'd hoped that it was an indicator of how his career would go here in DC. The part about not feeling sorry for him is true enough, most of these guys make more per year than I have so far in my life.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]I watch the games too and what I saw in Ramsey is a QB with no confidence, no pocket presence, poor decision making and a penchant for turning the ball over. I hope he turns out to be a decent QB somewhere, but I think he's Gus Frerotte, a servicable sometime starter but a solid backup. That's really not bad, Frerotte has had a 10 year career and made millions of dollars.. No-one is feeling too sorry for him.[/QUOTE]

Suppose he had spent the last three years at USC. Do you think people would still be questioning his pocket presence?

Suppose he had spent the last two years at San Diego, with decent protection and LT and Antonio to throw to...do you think people would still be questioning his confidence?

Suppose he had spent four years throwing to a healthy Santana Moss...do you think his stats would have been so average?

Do you think Tom Brady would still be alive if he had played for Spurrier?

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

Look, I was one of the biggest Ramsey fans, especially after the beating he took w/ Spurrier. I was pissed when they signed Brunell. And even though he has a pretty bad 2004, really thought he gave us a better chance to win in 2005. I was one of the people calling for Brunells head in 2004. But he came out in 2005, played his ass off, frankly should have been concidered for comeback player of the year, or even pro-bowl(in place of Vick). If healthy, Brunell is very effective, as he proved. I hope Ramsey makes the pro-bowl every year, its just going to have to be with someone else. I do predict, if he is given a fair shot to play, he will be a successful NFL QB. Take the one year he was actually given the job (2003) his stats would have aproximately been 3200 yards 20TDs and 16 picks. Thats not great, but pretty good for a 2nd year QB, plus with all the beatings he took. Fact, we would not have won 10 games or 11 games with Ramsey. Everyone may be pissed by him throwing balls away, well that may have saved a lot of games. Our D is too damn good to do things like that. Why risk it when 8 out 10 times, they are going to give us the ball right back.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]Suppose he had spent the last three years at USC. Do you think people would still be questioning his pocket presence?

Suppose he had spent the last two years at San Diego, with decent protection and LT and Antonio to throw to...do you think people would still be questioning his confidence?

Suppose he had spent four years throwing to a healthy Santana Moss...do you think his stats would have been so average?

Do you think Tom Brady would still be alive if he had played for Spurrier?[/QUOTE]
Honestly, I have no idea what would have happened if he was at USC or had LT and Antonio or a healthy Santana Moss or if Brady would still be alive if he played for Spurrier. I live in the actual world and Ramsey didn't step up and dominate when he played.

Some young qb have 'it' (Roethlisberger, Palmer, Simms, Brady) some respond to challenges (Brees), some are late bloomers (Green, Warner) and some seem to be missing something. I've been watching football for 30+ years and I don't claim to know everything but I have no reason to beleive that Ramsey will be successful (consistently leading his team to the postseason) as an NFL QB based on what I have seen. Could I be wrong? Certainly, but it's not going to happen here.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]A-friggin-men.

Ramsey had plenty of chances. Don't forget that when Brunell first got here, Gibbs declared the 2004 preseason to be open competition for the two QBs. Ramsey did nothing but stink it up, and in the process gave every reason for Gibbs to doubt him.[/QUOTE]

Reminder: Patrick didn't "stink it up." Joe Gibbs declared Patrick his starter after watching both perform in 2004.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]Reminder: Patrick didn't "stink it up." Joe Gibbs declared Patrick his starter after watching both perform in 2004.[/QUOTE]

Right. Ramsey performed so well after the preseason in '04 that Gibbs named Mark Brunell the starter. Subsequently, Brunell started the rest of the '05 season even after Ramsey was medically cleared to play after his neck injury in the opener against the Bears.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Right. Ramsey performed so well after the preseason in '04 that Gibbs named Mark Brunell the starter. Subsequently, Brunell started the rest of the '05 season even after Ramsey was medically cleared to play after his neck injury in the opener against the Bears.[/QUOTE]

So basically you're saying that the 50-60 snaps in the preseasons of 2004 and 2005 won the job for Brunell and the 16 games of 2004 regular season "fair and open competition" between the two QBs didn't carry much weight. Is that it?

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

Like others have said, if Campbell isn't starting by some point next season, I'll wonder why in the world we wasted a 1st round pick on him. I personally think if he isn't starting by the season opener, it will probably be 5-8 games into the season before Brunell gives way to him. I'm hoping both Brunell and Collins will help groom him for the job.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

The QB situation is one that scares me right now. We have a veteran starter in Brunell and qb who knows saunders system in Collins and a second year player who hasnt taken a snap yet. Last year Brunell started great then as the season went on he started to wear down. So going into this season Brunell will probably be the starter and Campbell the backup and collins just here to help teach the system. If Brunell goes down i jsut dont feel comfortable with Campbell as a starter yet and collins has been a carrer backup. I just hope jason is hitting the books and hope to see him play in the preseaon when the first stringers are playing to see what he has,

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

I think Brunell being injured played a part in his stuggling, of course. Lets also remember that Portis was banged up at the end of the season, Randy Thomas was out, and Moss was pretty much our only WR. Brunell will start, I cant wait to see Campbell take over, but he needs to be ready and I dont see much need to rush him. With our sick new WR corps Brunell will be able to get rid of the ball much faster and there wont be nearly as much pressure on him.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

NObody including Gibbs and staff know yet what the ranking of the QB's will be in 06. It would be stupid for them to say anything in March. Who the hell cares what some journalism major is saying in the press in March.
Let training camp and preseason happen then rank them. No more premature 1/4backcation please.
Also NOBODY knows if Campbell is ready or will be ready in August. We will see said the blind man.

Regarding Ramsey:
I remember a TV interview with Gibbs when he first came back to the Redskins. He said he spent a month doing nothing but looking at the previous seasons tape to grade the Spurrier players. One of the first moves he did was get Brunnell and told him he had a great chance to be the starter. Gibbs always had doubts about Ramsey. It is nothing personal, it is just some flaw in ramseys game and this at a very important position.
It is not that Gibbs loves Brunnell so much or thinks he is the 'answer', after all Gibbs drafted a QB in the first round the very next year.
The Ramsey fans should not get their panty's in a bunch if a hall of fame coach does not like a certain player unproven player that can't turn it around in four years..

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins]Regarding Ramsey:
I remember a TV interview with Gibbs when he first came back to the Redskins. He said he spent a month doing nothing but looking at the previous seasons tape to grade the Spurrier players. One of the first moves he did was get Brunnell and told him he had a great chance to be the starter. Gibbs always had doubts about Ramsey. It is nothing personal, it is some flaw in ramseys game and this at a very important position.
The Ramsey fans should not get their panty's in a bunch if a hall of fame coach does not like a certain player.[/QUOTE]

And don't forget the year before Bugel was with the team for a little bit as a "consultant" So I'm sure he got a chance to watch Ramsey up close and offer his input to Gibbs as well

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins]Regarding Ramsey: I remember a TV interview with Gibbs when he first came back to the Redskins. He said he spent a month doing nothing but looking at the previous seasons tape to grade the Spurrier players. One of the first moves he did was get Brunnell and told him he had a great chance to be the starter. Gibbs always had doubts about Ramsey. It is nothing personal, it is just some flaw in ramseys game and this at a very important position..[/QUOTE]

It's not as though you're revealing a state secret. Many of us knew that Ramsey's days were numbered when we found out how much they were paying Brunell.

It doesn't take a football genius to figure out what Joe saw that he didn't like either. Ramsey was a young quarterback who threw too many interceptions. Joe has zero patience with that.

We have to wonder if Joe would have benched Bradshaw, Elway, and Favre also since their TD to INT ratios were worse than Ramsey's at the same stage of their careers.

As it turned out though, Ramsey was lucky. If Gibbs had started him in 2004, he would have looked as bad as Brunell in that inept offense and his career would have been totally in the toilet. At least he got a chance to show something in the final seven games when the offense began to get its act together.