Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

[quote=That Guy]his bullying javon into camp without a new contract (and javon getting hurt and favre not stepping up to help him get the contract money that injury cost him) was crappy[/quote]

If Moss decided to hold out this season, and Brunell made a similar comment, you'd all be saying "Brunell's right, and Moss needs to stop being a punk".

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

[quote=jdlea]Yeah, last year Mark Brunell's numbers were better with Clinton Portis and Santana Moss than Favre's were with Donald Driver and Samkon Gado. What an accurate gage...[/quote]

I tell you what....stats aside, God forbid Huddle see this, Brunell was a better decision maker last year and cost his team less mistakes.

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

[quote=Beemnseven]Alright, well, I looked over his [I]actual numbers [/I]and the way I read them, he had 23 picks in 1999 and 22 TDs.[/quote]

Oversight on my part, so the first time since '99 and only the 2nd time since '93.

At least we're dealing in some facts now rather than gut feelings.

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

[QUOTE=12thMan]I tell you what....stats aside, God forbid Huddle see this, Brunell was a better decision maker last year and cost his team less mistakes.[/QUOTE]

True. But Brett Favre has never been the best decision maker in the world. He relies on his rare abilities. That said, I often wish there were a lot more Brett Favre in Mark Brunell. I would rather see him throw picks on 4th and the game than take sacks or try to run for 14 yards. I guess it depends on what you're looking for.

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]At least we're dealing in some facts now rather than gut feelings.[/QUOTE]

It was never my point to make scientific calculations of my opinion about Brett Farve, nor to back them up by statistics or mathematical equations. And I don’t deny his place in the history books of the NFL. I believe his so-called “commitment” to his team only if they have a chance to win to be pathetic and cowardly. That confirms my feeling about him being a whiney little putz. And if any Washington Redskin ever threatened the same, I would be furious.

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

[quote=jdlea]True. But Brett Favre has never been the best decision maker in the world. He relies on his rare abilities. That said, I often wish there were a lot more Brett Favre in Mark Brunell. I would rather see him throw picks on 4th and the game than take sacks or try to run for 14 yards. I guess it depends on what you're looking for.[/quote]

No, don't get me wrong, Brette is or at least has been a helluva QB. And I agree with your sentiment that Brunell could use a little more of that "gunslinger" mentallity. But based on last year's performance alone, I take Brunell everyday, with or without Portis and Co.

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

[QUOTE=12thMan]No, don't get me wrong, Brette is or at least has been a helluva QB. And I agree with your sentiment that Brunell could use a little more of that "gunslinger" mentallity. But based on last year's performance alone, I take Brunell everyday, with or without Portis and Co.[/QUOTE]

That's just where you and I differ on this subject. I look for a guy to make plays. Not just "not screw up" 90% of the time and rarely, if ever, take shots.

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

[quote=Southpaw]If Moss decided to hold out this season, and Brunell made a similar comment, you'd all be saying "Brunell's right, and Moss needs to stop being a punk".[/quote]

except he did hold out while getting his contract worked out and most people here understood that without the contract he couldn't risk an injury. It got taken care of, he came in and everything was fine. Such situations happen all the time; players need to protect their incomes. I don't think javon was being greedy at the time.

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

[quote=jdlea]That's just where you and I differ on this subject. I look for a guy to make plays. Not just "not screw up" 90% of the time and rarely, if ever, take shots.[/quote]

I think given Mark's abilities he took ample "shots" down the field, but honestly they really are two different QBs from a physical standpoint.

I think the fundamental difference is that they both play to their abilities and have gotten results. The one thing that Farve has proven, perhaps more than any QB in history, is that he is one durable son-of-gun!

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

he,s coming back,especiallyif lavar wants to go to green bay.....

he will be back..

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

[quote=That Guy]except he did hold out while getting his contract worked out and most people here understood that without the contract he couldn't risk an injury. It got taken care of, he came in and everything was fine. Such situations happen all the time; players need to protect their incomes. I don't think javon was being greedy at the time.[/quote]

I agree that players need to get what they can, while they can, but I also agree that a player shouldn't get the farm because they had one good season(i.e. Albert Connell).

Anyway, my point was if Brunell, as the leader of the team, made a comment about a star player holding out, 90% of this forum would be all over his jock and talking about how he's right, and the other player needs to show up to camp.

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

I read all these posts wishing Brunell was more of risk taker, wait and throw the ball down the field. Well, we had a guy the last couple of years that would sit in the pocket too long, and take the risks. Sometimes they were picks, sometimes they were great passes. Any we just traded him to the Jets. If that is what Gibbs wanted, Ramsey would still be here. Gibbs wants a guy that is NOT going to take a lot of risks, that is going to manage the game, and NOT LOSE THE GAME. You are the same people that probably call for Brunells head when he throws a pick or two, or when Ramsey was throwing 2 or 3 a game. You cant have it both ways. Risk taker leads to costly picks. I personally will take the guy that manages the game, if its not there throw it away or make a few yard scramble. Our Defense is too good to be giving field position away.

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic]I read all these posts wishing Brunell was more of risk taker, wait and throw the ball down the field. Well, we had a guy the last couple of years that would sit in the pocket too long, and take the risks. Sometimes they were picks, sometimes they were great passes. Any we just traded him to the Jets. If that is what Gibbs wanted, Ramsey would still be here. Gibbs wants a guy that is NOT going to take a lot of risks, that is going to manage the game, and NOT LOSE THE GAME. You are the same people that probably call for Brunells head when he throws a pick or two, or when Ramsey was throwing 2 or 3 a game. You cant have it both ways. Risk taker leads to costly picks. I personally will take the guy that manages the game, if its not there throw it away or make a few yard scramble. Our Defense is too good to be giving field position away.[/QUOTE]

Clearly you're talking to me and you should definitely read my posts before you call me a hypocrite because I've been very vocal about how Brunell should take more risks. I was all for Ramsey the last few seasons. I think we might have been better off with him under center, but that's beside the point. I never said I wanted it both ways. I want it one way...the gunslinging Brett Favre way. He's only had 1 losing season in his career, so tell me about how bad it is. He has a ring, how many does Brunell have? Tell me about how bad it is.

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

[quote=#56fanatic]I read all these posts wishing Brunell was more of risk taker, wait and throw the ball down the field. Well, we had a guy the last couple of years that would sit in the pocket too long, and take the risks. Sometimes they were picks, sometimes they were great passes. Any we just traded him to the Jets. If that is what Gibbs wanted, Ramsey would still be here. Gibbs wants a guy that is NOT going to take a lot of risks, that is going to manage the game, and NOT LOSE THE GAME. You are the same people that probably call for Brunells head when he throws a pick or two, or when Ramsey was throwing 2 or 3 a game. You cant have it both ways. Risk taker leads to costly picks. I personally will take the guy that manages the game, if its not there throw it away or make a few yard scramble. Our Defense is too good to be giving field position away.[/quote]

Exactly. The problem is if Mark Brunell took more "risks" while throwing what, 11 or 12 ints?, Jackonsville would have never let him go to begin with. I'm not trying to turn this into Brette v. Brunell thread. Both have strengths and both have weaknesses. It's just that Brunell's are better suited for Gibbs' type of football.

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

I'm not sure I'd want a QB that is as much of a risk taker as Favre, but somewhere in between Brunell and Favre would be nice.

Brunell is definitely overly cautious at times, but I'm not sure how much of that is him, or how much of that is what Gibbs wants. I guess we'll see this year when Saunders is calling the offense.

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

[quote=Southpaw]I agree that players need to get what they can, while they can, but I also agree that a player shouldn't get the farm because they had one good season(i.e. Albert Connell).

Anyway, my point was if Brunell, as the leader of the team, made a comment about a star player holding out, 90% of this forum would be all over his jock and talking about how he's right, and the other player needs to show up to camp.[/quote]

maybe they should be all up in brunell's jock for being selfish and not looking out for his teammates.

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

[QUOTE=12thMan]I tell you what....stats aside, God forbid Huddle see this, Brunell was a better decision maker last year and cost his team less mistakes.[/QUOTE]

Has Huddle even been on since he told us we're losing the battle with ES?

Anyhow, is Favre's stalling really holding the team back right now? I mean either way they have truckloads of money, they're going about their free agent business signing guys like Marquand Manuel and Ryan Pickett. And they have already have their QB of the future (at least they believe they do) in Aaron Rodgers. So right now at least it doesn't seem to me like Favre's decision, or lack thereof, is really affecting any of the Packers plans. If this is still going on in August, that's a different story.

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

[quote=freddyg12]lot of good points in this thread. Sure hope brunell doesn't try this next year!


Brunell won't try this next year for two reasons.
1. Brunell isn't a franchised QB and (we) Redskins fan can live without him.

2. We've got Campbell and we'll cut him if he does try anything like this.

Hail from AZ

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

[quote=jdlea]Clearly you're talking to me and you should definitely read my posts before you call me a hypocrite because I've been very vocal about how Brunell should take more risks. I was all for Ramsey the last few seasons. I think we might have been better off with him under center, but that's beside the point. I never said I wanted it both ways. I want it one way...the gunslinging Brett Favre way. He's only had 1 losing season in his career, so tell me about how bad it is. He has a ring, how many does Brunell have? Tell me about how bad it is.[/quote]

Not specificly you , there were a few people this was aimed at. Like someone said, Gibbs does not want turnovers..PERIOD. Favre has a ring, that is right, but that makes him part of a better team than Brunell has been a part of. Brunell, earlier in his career, led Jacksonville deep in the playoffs, so he can play in big games. I would like to have a QB that throws 19 less interceptions than Favre. Favre has done this his whole career. He has been benefited by the fact he has had some pretty damn good receivers and TEs during his tenure. See what happens when he isn't surrounded with good targets.

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

[quote=#56fanatic]See what happens when he isn't surrounded with good targets.[/quote]

Ummm yeah, pretty much what happens to any QB when you take away his targets (and offensive line).

Does anyone think Peyton Manning would have had a great year if he was playing on Green Bay last year??

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

[quote=#56fanatic]Favre has a ring, that is right, but that makes him part of a better team than Brunell has been a part of. [/quote]

It sounds like you're claiming that the only reason Favre has a ring, and Brunell doesn't is because Favre had a better team. For many years in Jacksonville, Brunell had Jimmy Smith and Keenan McCardell in their respective primes, and a young Fred Taylor, so I think it's fair to say he's had a very talented team around him at least a few times in his career(next year will be one of those years).

Favre has never had a receiver as consistently good as Jimmy Smith, and for Brunells last few years in Jacksonville, their defense was far better than Green Bays.

Re: Brett Favre Decision
 

[quote=Southpaw]It sounds like you're claiming that the only reason Favre has a ring, and Brunell doesn't is because Favre had a better team. For many years in Jacksonville, Brunell had Jimmy Smith and Keenan McCardell in their respective primes, and a young Fred Taylor, so I think it's fair to say he's had a very talented team around him at least a few times in his career(next year will be one of those years).

Favre has never had a receiver as consistently good as Jimmy Smith, and for Brunells last few years in Jacksonville, their defense was far better than Green Bays.[/quote]

Favre, I think, did have a better all around team. Defense, offense and special teams. That is what I think. I dont remember Jacksonvilles D being all that good those few years when they were in the playoffs, I could be wrong. I am not putting Favre and Brunell on the same level, Favre will probably go down as a very good QB in the NFL, I just feel that he been a bit over rated. He slings the ball around, throws a high number of picks every year, loses close games with stupid decisions, but sometimes wins games with great plays. I just dont think he is as GREAT as the media makes him out to be. Thats my opinion, so dont go blasting me with facts about this and that. I am not saying its a fact, its my opinion.