Re: F... gas prices
 

There seems to be a big misconception about how Gas stations operate. I know a thing or two about how they work since my father and his business partner owned 5 of them and I worked for them for couple of summers. Gas stations don't make money from selling gas...they are like drug street pushers. How many street pushers you think make top dollar? If a gas station makes 5 cents per gallon sold they are doing alright. Gas stations typically make most of their money from their food market, especially the sale of Soda, Smokes, and Beer. There are some gas stations that do make a killing but this is only if there is no gas station around them that they have to compete with.

The chain to get gas from the ground to your tank has up to 6 links. Governments selling it, big gas corporations like BP, cured oil transporters, refineries, interstate refined oil transporters, and finally local transporters.

Who do you think takes the biggest cut out of every gallon you buy? Uncle Sam! That's right, your federal "child molesting" Uncle Sam takes 18.4 c/pg cut of each gallon sold. Your local "i hate you" Uncle Sam takes on [URL="http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp"]average[/URL] 21 c/pg cut. You think the the federal and state governments have a vested interest in reducing prices? Yes, but only because they are worried people aren't going to go out (drive) and buy other stuff.

Re: F... gas prices
 

Overnight the price of gas at my local station went from $3.76 to $3.85

WTF!

Re: F... gas prices
 

I gotta' be more alert when reading the re-hash threads! I nearly had a stroke at $2.60 p/gal gas.
Soooooo, I guess gas will not be going down this summer??????

Re: F... gas prices
 

[quote=Summo;172363]Long Island hit $3.00 yesterday!! F...Dat shit!![/quote]

$4 for premium in DC

Re: F... gas prices
 

I'm afraid to tank up my diesel. I'ts been $4+ for a while

Re: F... gas prices
 

[quote=hesscl34;448066]$4 for premium in DC[/quote]

summo's post is an old one, I was down on LI this weekend and gas was over $4 in most parts

Re: F... gas prices
 

[quote=Mattyk72;448069]summo's post is an old one, I was down on LI this weekend and gas was over $4 in most parts[/quote]

Sad part is that we all just accept it now.. becuase there is not a damn thing we can do. I wish my salary went up as fast as gas prices!

Re: F... gas prices
 

[quote=saden1;173189]There seems to be a big misconception about how Gas stations operate. I know a thing or two about how they work since my father and his business partner owned 5 of them and I worked for them for couple of summers. Gas stations don't make money from selling gas...they are like drug street pushers. How many street pushers you think make top dollar? If a gas station makes 5 cents per gallon sold they are doing alright. Gas stations typically make most of their money from their food market, especially the sale of Soda, Smokes, and Beer. There are some gas stations that do make a killing but this is only if there is no gas station around them that they have to compete with.

The chain to get gas from the ground to your tank has up to 6 links. Governments selling it, big gas corporations like BP, cured oil transporters, refineries, interstate refined oil transporters, and finally local transporters.

Who do you think takes the biggest cut out of every gallon you buy? Uncle Sam! That's right, your federal "child molesting" Uncle Sam takes 18.4 c/pg cut of each gallon sold. Your local "i hate you" Uncle Sam takes on [URL="http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp"]average[/URL] 21 c/pg cut. You think the the federal and state governments have a vested interest in reducing prices? Yes, but only because they are worried people aren't going to go out (drive) and buy other stuff.[/quote]


Good info...

I really don't have a problem w/ the gov't taxing gas. It's not the gov't that sets these $4/gallon prices. The gov't most likely charges a certain %, why should the gov't lower their tax when the oil companies are raising their prices. The oil co's would get richer and the gov't poorer if the gov't just decided to cut it's gas tax.

I don't pretend to know all there is about the price of gas, but i don't blame the gov't as much as i do the oil co's.

Re: F... gas prices
 

They need to drill for more oil in America. We have plenty of it, but for some reason we're not allowed to, even though our economy needs it really bad and alternative sources are still pretty far away.

Re: F... gas prices
 

There is a small contingent of people in this area who have a process to refine the cast off grease from the fast food restaurants and other sources to make deisel. I am sure it is not unique technology. Something that can be set up by almost anybody. Apparently it is not to expensive to get started, (although maybe a hassle) and something on the order of 50 cents a gallon to refine. Interesting.............

Re: F... gas prices
 

[url=http://www.reuk.co.uk/Can-You-Run-Your-Car-On-Biodiesel.htm]Can You Run Your Car On Biodiesel - Biomass[/url]

Biodiesel is very popular among environmentalists, and others willing to do what it takes to convert their cars to run on the stuff. There are home kits you can buy that will turn your waste oil into biodiesel fuel...

Re: F... gas prices
 

This just came up on my news board... ha ha ha..

[url=http://finance.comcast.net/www/news.html?x=http://absorigins.comcast.net/data/news/2008/05/13/960566.xml]FINANCE - Old gas pumps can't handle ever-rising prices - Top News - Comcast.net[/url]

Re: F... gas prices
 

Back when I was still driving gas prices were at 2.95-3.00ish and I thought they were raping me lol, now all the pumps in my area are selling for around 3.69 as of yesterday lol. I wish we were back in the days when you could get a gallon for like 2.50.

Re: F... gas prices
 

i don't think im that old, and can remember gas for about .60, or so

Re: F... gas prices
 

Well, the Senate voted AGAIN to keep us dependant on foreign oil.

President Bush is leaving Israel to go speak to the Saudis about oil prices, not that they'll listen or feel sorry for us.




[url=http://newsmax.com/hostetter/anwr_oil_senate/2008/05/14/96049.html]Newsmax.com - Senate Blocks ANWR Oil Exploration[/url]



Senate Blocks ANWR Oil Exploration

Wednesday, May 14, 2008 3:17 PM

By: E. Ralph Hostetter Article Font Size






The U.S. Senate voted on Tuesday, May 13, to block oil exploration in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) and the offshore areas of the Pacific and Atlantic coasts.

It is indeed remarkable how quickly the U.S. Senate can organize a negative vote when the issue is of such magnitude and importance to the economy and welfare of the nation.

To reverse the damage this vote has done to America’s energy independence will take months of endless hearings, making certain that every dissident is heard.

The National Center for Policy Analysis also on Tuesday, identified the U.S. Congress as the responsible party for the high price of gasoline and summed it up in this manner: “Over the last 28 years, Democrats in Congress and a few Republicans have again and again opposed our drilling for oil in Alaska’s ANWR; during the past 31 years Congress has repeatedly prevented us from building any new oil refineries; most recently congressional Democrats defeated and discouraged any bill that would let us drill in the deep sea, 100 miles out.”

Equally damaging to energy independence is the envirocrat crowd who manage to capture the moral high ground of environmental issues and use it to advance their own political agenda.


The dominant media has a stable of such envirocrats ready at the call to make statements that for some reason or other seem to be accepted at face value by the Democrat majority and a few Republicans in Congress.

The Daily News-Miner of Fairbanks, Alaska, was quick to find such a person, and in an interview, reporter R.A. Dillon quoted Arctic Coordinator for the Northern Alaska Environmental Center Pam Miller as saying the vote against drilling in ANWR was a resounding show of support for protecting the refuge for future generations.


That’s it. That’s all it takes to intimidate the majority in Congress for the foreseeable future.


No recognition is given to how little of the ANWR reserve is brought into play for the entire development of the oil drilling site that would yield 1 million barrels of oil a day from its billions of barrels in reserve.

The footprint, so to speak, that is necessary for full development of a drilling operation to deliver the 1 million barrels is a mere 2,000 acres.

This tiny footprint represents one one-hundred thousandths (0.0001) of the total area of ANWR's 19 million acres. This is equivalent to one large farm in a state about the size of South Carolina.

Procedures used in modern day development of oil fields are environmentally safe and have been accepted as such.

Apparently all the presidential candidates have expressed their opposition to development of ANWR.

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., announced on May 13 that he had missed the vote in the U.S. Senate, but had he been there, he would have voted against further exploration in ANWR.

It would appear as though the majority of present day politicians have no concept of the energy source of 90 percent of America's transport vehicles.

In recent years they seem content to joust with windmills and chase ethanol rainbows.

Their ethanol dream has contributed to the destabilization of grain markets around the world. Some nations that were exporters of grain, especially rice, have now stopped the practice.

Food riots, in some instances causing death, are shown daily in TV news broadcasts.

Subsidies supporting the continued expansion of ethanol production remain in play.

The mandate of Congress to produce more billions of gallons of ethanol by the year 2020 is still on the books.

Crude oil topped $127 per barrel this week.

In January 2001, President George W. Bush was sworn into the office. The price of oil at that time was about $30 per barrel.

Today, petroleum is more than four times that figure. Gasoline prices are over $4 per gallon in many parts of the country.

Those who talked about $4 gasoline some months ago are now elevating their sights to $5 per gallon and above.

Americans usually react only when they are being hurt to a point where they alone are feeling the pain.

The average citizen may be approaching that point today. Only then will that citizen demand in no uncertain terms that the U.S. Congress do its job to establish energy independence using our own abundant resources.

The struggle for energy independence led by the Congressional minority meets road block after road block from the Democrat leadership in Congress.

House Majority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., will offer their own energy package later this week.

Their energy packet makes no reference to the production of more oil and gas; instead, it is designed to punish the very companies that do provide our energy. The reason they give is simply this: these companies are making large profits.

Their energy plan will provide for the introduction of a windfall profits tax designed to confiscate the oil company profits. This new tax will no doubt be used by these far left zealots for their own political gain, no doubt for social programs to buy votes in the upcoming elections.

The oil companies must preserve these profits which are desperately needed at the present to build new refineries and to develop new oil fields when the next and hopefully more energy-wise Congress is elected

Re: F... gas prices
 

Also, here in my part of PA, gas jumped from $3.599 to $3.799 in a week!

Re: F... gas prices
 

As much as I hate paying $50 to fill up my tank, this whole crisis is probably a good thing. The only thing that is going to force us to kick our oil addiction is rising oil prices.

Re: F... gas prices
 

[quote=Buster;448826]Also, here in my part of PA, gas jumped from $3.599 to $3.799 in a week![/quote]

Same here in DC. Its actually $3.79 right now. I'd hate to go into the Capital Hill area and see what all the rich people are paying for gas. Has to be damn near $4.00 for regular.

I love going out in the morning to a $3.63 gas price and coming home to a $3.73 price.

How the price increases in a matter of 8 hours still amazes me.

PLUS...

SGG, what type of car are you driving? I'm driving a Honda Accord and it costs ME damn near $50 to fill my tank. I'd probably slit my wrists if I knew what SUV owners were paying. I'd probably kill to be owning a hybrid right about now.

Re: F... gas prices
 

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;448831]SGG, what type of car are you driving? I'm driving a Honda Accord and it costs ME damn near $50 to fill my tank. I'd probably slit my wrists if I knew what SUV owners were paying. I'd probably kill to be owning a hybrid right about now.[/QUOTE]

I'm driving a 99 Ford Explorer. I'm probably going to buy an Accord soon though. Guess why.

Re: F... gas prices
 

I'm lovin my Accord right now. I can go almost 2 1/2 weeks on a tank of gas.

We've spent approximately $250 this week putting gas in my husband's bread truck. It sucks. :(

Re: F... gas prices
 

[QUOTE=Lady Brave;448837]I'm lovin my Accord right now. I can go almost 2 1/2 weeks on a tank of gas.

We've spent approximately $250 this week putting gas in my husband's bread truck. It sucks. :([/QUOTE]

$250 a week! That's crazy. Presumably he's forced to pass those costs onto consumers?

Re: F... gas prices
 

I think the government shoult make it illegal to trade oil on margin. I think you would see the price drop right away if some of these guys were risking their own hard cash. I think the margin is currently like 5% which is ridiculous.

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_%28Futures%29"]Futures contract - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculation]Speculation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Re: F... gas prices
 

I just bought a motorcycle to go back and forth to work,I drive 80 miles round trip,plus my wife works,our gas budget has increased from 350 a month not that long ago to almost 800 a month now,thats a big strain on the budget,not to mention everything else is higher,just hope i survive the idiot drivers out there while I'm cruising on my bike

Re: F... gas prices
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;448838]$250 a week! That's crazy. Presumably he's forced to pass those costs onto consumers?[/quote]
Nope. We have to eat it basically, but it is a tax write off.

The way it works is he is an independant distributor who buys the bread from the baking company. An any increase in the cost of bread would come from the shipping costs associated with manufacturing the bread and transporting it from the bakeries to the warehouses.

Re: F... gas prices
 

Folks, get used to the rising gas prices. It is a non-renewable resource, and a relatively rare one at that. We were lucky for a bit when we were one of the few countries guzzling gas down -- but that's changing. With both China and India working towards making themselves more developed, they're using gasoline at an alarming rate. It's all supply and demand -- the problem isn't the Gasoline -- the problem is that we haven't invested in R&D for technologies outside gasoline.

I don't consider myself an environmentalist. I think that you should take simple steps to not ruin the earth and cut down on pollution, but gasoline will only go up (for the most part) from here.

PS -- Like Lady Brave's husband, I work for bread guys fairly regularly. Most of the work I do is for Pepperidge Farm bread. The guys make solid money (20% of each loaf sold / bag of stuffing -- most of them it equals out to a bit more than 100K / yr), but there are a bunch of expenses in that (Truck, Gas, Handheld, etc). Their gas bills are absolutely insane right now. They're still begging me to give them vacations, but a lot of them just want to sit at home without waking up at 2am for a week.

Re: F... gas prices
 

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;448831]SGG, what type of car are you driving? I'm driving a Honda Accord and it costs ME damn near $50 to fill my tank. I'd probably slit my wrists if I knew what SUV owners were paying. I'd probably kill to be owning a hybrid right about now.[/QUOTE]
2003 Mercury Mountaineer - 22 gallon tank, I'm putting in over $70 every time I fill up, which is anywhere from 5 to 10 days per tank, depending on how much driving we're doing. My wife commutes 60+ miles round trip 4 days a week (Telecommutes Fridays), and I'm going to softball 2 nights a week (48 miles round + 67 miles round) in our Civic. So a 12 gallon tank last us roughly a week (the car sits on weekends), so $40/week to keep it full. A good month looks like $370/month for gasoline. Bad month looks like $580/month.

Not looking forward to any summer trips, since we have a baby, the Civic isn't big enough for the 3 of us plus the crap we're hauling...so any time we go more than 300 miles in a weekend, it's another $70+. Twice a month, and we're looking at an extra $150 on top of what we're already paying...

It's funny to think about it now (considering less than 10 years ago, gas was less than $1/gallon), but I think a good median threshold is $2/gallon. Closer to $2.50 in the summer time, while under $2 in the winter time. Especially since salaries are not increasing as fast as the economy is inflating...

Re: F... gas prices
 

Do hybrids really save that much? I am assuming it takes years for them to payoff. Also isn't maintaining them very expensive?

Re: F... gas prices
 

Daseal hit it on the head, the economic growth in China and India is the biggest reason gas prices are going up so much. Many, many more people own cars throughout the world, and many more businesses use fuel throughout the world, than did 10 years ago. That's not going to change, and in fact it's only going to get worse.

You can't fault big oil. Exxon's supply of oil has remained relatively stable, but worldwide demand is driving up price.

Taxing Exxon and others for a "windfall" is quite possibly the dumbest economic idea I've ever heard. Right now, Exxon is stacking up cash, which they're itching to invest. If you tax their windfall profit, you put a damper on their ability to invest. Their investments could really help the US citizens: their first choice would be drilling in protected areas, such as Alaska. Here's where our government needs to face the harsh reality, you can choose between protecting Alaska and forcing your citizens to continue paying escalating gas prices, or you can give relief to your citizens and allow the drilling in Alaska.

Investing in hydrogen and other fuel sources is also wise. But they won't pay off for many years. For the next 5 to 10 years, politicians have a choice to make: our economy (ie our citizens' ability to make ends meet) or the environment.

Re: F... gas prices
 

[quote=Schneed10;448857]Daseal hit it on the head, the economic growth in China and India is the biggest reason gas prices are going up so much. Many, many more people own cars throughout the world, and many more businesses use fuel throughout the world, than did 10 years ago. That's not going to change, and in fact it's only going to get worse.

[B]You can't fault big oil.[/B] Exxon's supply of oil has remained relatively stable, but worldwide demand is driving up price.

Taxing Exxon and others for a "windfall" is quite possibly the dumbest economic idea I've ever heard. Right now, Exxon is stacking up cash, which they're itching to invest. If you tax their windfall profit, you put a damper on their ability to invest. Their investments could really help the US citizens: their first choice would be drilling in protected areas, such as Alaska. Here's where our government needs to face the harsh reality, you can choose between protecting Alaska and forcing your citizens to continue paying escalating gas prices, or you can give relief to your citizens and allow the drilling in Alaska.

Investing in hydrogen and other fuel sources is also wise. But they won't pay off for many years. For the next 5 to 10 years, politicians have a choice to make: our economy (ie our citizens' ability to make ends meet) or the environment.[/quote]
oh boy. this has to be one of the dumbest things ever posted. we cant fault them? if not, then why, after each quarter, are they declaring record profits? can i blame this administration for not demanding more production from OPEC? who, in your opinion, can i blame? im pissed, and want to vent. as for Exxon wanting to invest their money, i totally disagree. they are in the business to make money. if they wanted to invest, whats the holdup? why wait? and as for drilling in Alaska, the oil companies like it just the way it is. why would they want to find an abundance of oil? that would just cut into their profit margin. your post looks like it came straight out of George Bush's mouth

Re: F... gas prices
 

I also find it hard to believe that big oil is just an innocent bystander in all of this.

Re: F... gas prices
 

[quote=dmek25;448888]oh boy. this has to be one of the dumbest things ever posted. we cant fault them? if not, then why, after each quarter, are they declaring record profits? can i blame this administration for not demanding more production from OPEC? who, in your opinion, can i blame? im pissed, and want to vent. as for Exxon wanting to invest their money, i totally disagree. they are in the business to make money. if they wanted to invest, whats the holdup? why wait? and as for drilling in Alaska, the oil companies like it just the way it is. [B]why would they want to find an abundance of oil? that would just cut into their profit margin.[/B] your post looks like it came straight out of George Bush's mouth[/quote]That is some backwards logic right there.

Anyway, if you need to vent, blame humanity. Blame the Far East for becoming industrialized. If you have to vent then you have to vent, but Schneed is still 100% right.

Re: F... gas prices
 

[quote=dmek25;448888]oh boy. [B]this has to be one of the dumbest things ever posted[/B]. we cant fault them? [B]if not, then why, after each quarter, are they declaring record profits?[/B] can i blame this administration for [B]not demanding more production from OPEC[/B]? who, in your opinion, [B]can i blame? im pissed, and want to vent[/B]. as for Exxon wanting to invest their money, i totally disagree. they are in the business to make money. [B]if they wanted to invest, whats the holdup[/B]? why wait? and as for drilling in Alaska, [B]the oil companies like it just the way it is. why would they want to find an abundance of oil? that would just cut into their profit margin.[/B] your post looks like it came straight out of George Bush's mouth[/quote]

Bolded part 1: Attacking the post, I can't fault you for that. But I've got to attack yours, not only this one, but nearly everything you've ever posted on this site when it comes to business:

You have no idea what you're talking about. Not even a little bit.

Bolded part 2: They're getting record profits because their supply of oil has remained stable, but the global demand for oil has increased (China and India consuming more) and hence the price goes up. Free market system, not hard to understand.

Bolded part 3: How can the US Government demand more production from OPEC? Do you even understand who OPEC is? What negotiating power does the US Government have over OPEC?? This makes no sense. They can do whatever the eff they want, we have no power there.

Bolded part 4: Who can you blame? Why is anyone to blame? It's an economic force at play. It's nobody's fault. If you want to point at somebody, I guess point your finger at China and India for developing like the United States did from 1930 - 1960. God forbid they make progress.

Bolded part 5: Exxon is investing. They're always searching for drilling spots and in new technologies. But they could invest in Alaska if the government let them.

Bolded part 6: This is the most embarrassing part of your post. It screams lack of education. Profit margin is the % of revenues left over after subtracting expenses. Yes, drilling in Alaska will cut the %. But, last I checked, you don't spend %s. You spend $s. If you invest in Alaska and start drilling, your expenses go up cutting into your %. But the oil they capture also increases revenue, causing profits to increase. If you need me to explain how it's mathematically possible for a % margin to decline while profits go up, then I give up.

That post was embarassing, dmek.

Re: F... gas prices
 

[quote=Mattyk72;448890]I also find it hard to believe that big oil is just an innocent bystander in all of this.[/quote]

Do you have anything to back that up or is that just a conspiracy theory?

Re: F... gas prices
 

Screw it, I'll do the math for you. Which would you rather have:

$100,000 in revenue
$80,000 in expenses
$20,000 in profit (20% profit margin)

or

$500,000 in revenue
$450,000 in expenses
$50,000 in profit (10% profit margin)

If you said you'd take the $20,000 with a 20% margin, can I pretty pretty please play poker with you sometime?

Re: F... gas prices
 

Welcome to capitalism. How much should something be? As much someone will pay for it and not stop buying it. It's important to find that balance, and thanks to big oil stubbing mass transit in many cities before it got big, we're very dependent on gas, thus cars. The price sucks, no doubt about it -- but the oil companies are in the market to make MONEY, not to give the USA a break. What incentive is there for them to drop prices? People are going to drive. Plus, they're getting much more money from other sections of the world (China/India) which is a big reason why they're making record profits.

Re: F... gas prices
 

I doubt that increased demand is soley to blame for oil quadrupling in price. I think speculation is driving the increase as well. Hedge fund managers are now into oil big time. Even individuals are getting in for the ride. A friend of mine justified it by saying he had to recoup the losses he was experiencing at the pump. Money chases money. As more and more people are seeing the possibility of making money in commodities rather than stocks and bonds, the price only increases. Imagine if a bunch of moneyed investors suddenly all decided that baseball cards were a sure thing. Their sudden entry into the market would necessarily force the price of a Clemente rookie card through the roof. The question is, is this a permanent thing or at some point will gravity have it's affect. We need a crash badly. As quickly as the money went in, it will run for the exits if the price falls fast enough.

I think there are a few simple steps that could be taken to at least discourage new money from forcing up the price any further. The Democrats may serve useful here as their penchant for regulation would surely be helpful. Maria Cantwell of Washington is making this a pet issue. She's kind of a butter face but she has nice hair and seems relatively bright. It would be worth a try at any rate.

Re: F... gas prices
 

I fraking hate driving now. You cant even do favors for anyone anymore

Re: F... gas prices
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;448894]Bolded part 3: How can the US Government demand more production from OPEC? Do you even understand who OPEC is? What negotiating power does the US Government have over OPEC?? This makes no sense. They can do whatever the eff they want, we have no power there.[/QUOTE]

I don't that is entirely correct. The U.S. government has a great deal of influence over middle eastern countries and, by extension, OPEC. For example, many middle eastern countries rely on the U.S. to supply their militaries with arms. Guess who gets to approve or reject the sale of those weapons? The United States Congress. Moreover, if the U.S. ever manages to create a semi-stable security environment in Iraq, the U.S. could pressure the Iraqis to flip the bird to OPEC and start pumping out boatloads of oil. Obviously our influence over OPEC's member countries wasn't great enough to convince them to up their oil quotas, but I think it's inaccurate to say that we don't have any negotiating power.

Re: F... gas prices
 

This problem could easily be solved if congress would just let us build new refineries and drill for oil in Alaska and off the eastern and western shores. This needs to happen. Our economy is based on the abundance of cheap energy, which is now getting expensive. We need to end our dependence on foreign oil and start drilling here. There is plenty of oil in America for us to use for many many years. I'm all for using alternate sources of energy, but they are just not ready yet. Right now they all suck. If we drill for more oil here, it will give us the time we need to develop alternate technologies. Whether you like it or not, we need to drill for more oil here.

Re: F... gas prices
 

schneed, i didnt mean to attack you personally. but we definitely look at this differently. you think its fine for gas to be $5.00- $6.00, or whatever, a gallon so the companies can maintain record profits. we disagree on that. we disagree on how they go about it. we definitely disagree on the governments place in this problem. you see this as capitalism at is finest. i see this as raping the American public. the government can control anything it wants to. why not oil? because of the Saudis influence with the American government. and yes, i understand who O.P.E.C is. and i also understand the military's involvement in the middle east. the little bit of stability they have comes from an American influence/ presence. we Americans are always more then willing to aid any country that asks. how about someone scratching our backs every once in a while?