Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

1. Does anyone know what his Wonderlic score was?

2. What I got from the press conference was that they feel like they are basically set to go already and that any contributors they add through the draft is icing. I didn't get the sense that the season is riding on what happens this weekend.

3. Our coaches love the U.

4. Gibbs believes that we can win the Super Bowl this year. You can see it on his face.

5. I KNOW that we WILL win the Super Bowl this year.

6. Chris Berman has jumped the shark.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=70Chip]1. Does anyone know what his Wonderlic score was?

2. What I got from the press conference was that they feel like they are basically set to go already and that any contributors they add through the draft is icing. I didn't get the sense that the season is riding on what happens this weekend.

3. Our coaches love the U.

4. Gibbs believes that we can win the Super Bowl this year. You can see it on his face.

5. I KNOW that we WILL win the Super Bowl this year.

6. Chris Berman has jumped the shark.[/quote]29. I don't no the highest score but, another player scored 41 this year (non-QB I'm sure).

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

everyone who is upset or doesnt understand the pick just needs to watch gibbs presser on redskins.com. in gibbs we trust, remember?

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

My problem is certainly not with the player, but with the fact that we traded up at all. He wasn't in high demand, and almost certainly would have been there at 53.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

29 on the wonderlic and almost three degrees at the U! Gibbs always talks about wanting guys with "smarts". Seems like McIntosh has that covered. I think he will take well to Williams' coaching and with the other "U" guys to spur him along--I think it is a fantastic pick...

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

he would have definately been gone at 53.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=SkinEmAll]everyone who is upset or doesnt understand the pick just needs to watch gibbs presser on redskins.com. in gibbs we trust, remember?[/quote]Tell 'em Skinem'.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

out of all the linebackers in the draft, theres a huge drop off from the top handfull and the rest.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=EXoffender]29. I don't no the highest score but, another player scored 41 this year.[/quote]

I guess 29 is high for a football player. I thought there was a Center that scored in the high 40s. Somebody posted a link in a thread about two months ago when the Vince Young scored 6 thing was brewing. If anyone can, re-post, please?

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

hey EXoffender whats the story w/ berman and a shark?

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012]My problem is certainly not with the player, but with the fact that we traded up at all. He wasn't in high demand, and almost certainly would have been there at 53.[/QUOTE]

Nice avatar. Everything I have heard from those in the know (SkinsnCanes & Coach Gibbs, not necessarily in that order--No offense SnC) says that he wouldn't have been around at 53. This is particularly true since a run on LBs began early in the 2nd round, which is why we moved up when we did.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=SkinEmAll]hey EXoffender whats the story w/ berman and a shark?[/quote]

it means he's not entertaining or as good as he used to be

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[QUOTE=CooleyAsCanBe]Nice avatar. Everything I have heard from those in the know (SkinsnCanes & Coach Gibbs, not necessarily in that order--No offense SnC) says that he wouldn't have been around at 53. This is particularly true since a run on LBs began early in the 2nd round, which is why we moved up when we did.[/QUOTE]

When you listened to Gibbs press conference, he did everything but say this guy is already penciled in as a starter. He kept saying how he can play any position and can blitz, then he would mention that he already talked to lemar to see if he cared if he moved around to different positions...The guys going to be a starter for us very early, if not week 1.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=GTripp0012]My problem is certainly not with the player, but with the fact that we traded up at all. He wasn't in high demand, and almost certainly would have been there at 53.[/quote]

i don't know if he would have been there at 53, but alston would have been, and richard marshall (CB), and matui and spencer, and abdul hodge, all of which could be impact players.

at 35, we could have taken justice (QUALITY OL backup) or jimmy williams or even chad jackson (totally not needed).

with jimmy williams, we could just sit in nickel all day and use taylor and archuleta as option linebackers.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[QUOTE=70Chip]I guess 29 is high for a football player. I thought there was a Center that scored in the high 40s. Somebody posted a link in a thread about two months ago when the Vince Young scored 6 thing was brewing. If anyone can, re-post, please?[/QUOTE]

29 is a great score. 40 is rare and considered exceptional, usually only QBs get in the 30's, 40's.

With that beign said...29 for a miami football player is pretty much like acing the test...lol

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=SKINSnCANES]29 is a great score. 40 is rare and considered exceptional, usually only QBs get in the 30's, 40's.

With that beign said...29 for a miami football player is pretty much like acing the test...lol[/quote]

Yeah. I hope it's legit.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

are they serious? we gave up our second rounder this year, and a second rounder and a sixth rounder next year? Now, Macintosh might turn out to be a good player, but that's a lot to give up to move up 18 spots in the second round this year.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

why do people not understand how moving up in the draft works. We didtn give up two first round picks for Campbell, and we didnt give up two 2nd round picks for Rocky. We gave up a 2nd round pick next year to essentially move up a round this year, or up a great number of picks. We still got a 2nd round pick.

It is a high pick to give up, I agree. But if its what we need to win it all this year, or go farther in the playoffs then its worth it. If hes a bust, and we dotn do well this year, then we'll wish we had it. But id rather put my self in a better position to win this year when we're so close

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

I don't see what the fuss is about with trading away the 2 seconds and a 6th. We talk all offseason how we can't afford to sign our picks, so when we package them to move up and get our 2 or 3 guys, then it's a bad move?

I think if you're gonna build through free agency, which we do, then you have to trade your picks away to stay out of horrible cap trouble.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=SKINSnCANES]why do people not understand how moving up in the draft works. We didtn give up two first round picks for Campbell, and we didnt give up two 2nd round picks for Rocky. We gave up a 2nd round pick next year to essentially move up a round this year, or up a great number of picks. We still got a 2nd round pick.

It is a high pick to give up, I agree. But if its what we need to win it all this year, or go farther in the playoffs then its worth it. If hes a bust, and we dotn do well this year, then we'll wish we had it. But id rather put my self in a better position to win this year when we're so close[/quote]

so then who has the 53rd pick in the draft this year?

just so you don't have to go to redskins.com or anywhere else i did for you...


To obtain McIntosh, the Redskins traded the 53rd pick in the second round of this year's draft, the 189th pick in the sixth round of this year's draft and a second-round pick in the 2007 NFL Draft.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=kingerock]I don't see what the fuss is about with trading away the 2 seconds and a 6th. We talk all offseason how we can't afford to sign our picks, so when we package them to move up and get our 2 or 3 guys, then it's a bad move?

I think if you're gonna build through free agency, which we do, then you have to trade your picks away to stay out of horrible cap trouble.[/quote]

the problem i had with the trade is that better talent was available at 35 than what we took and impact players were still there at 53 (at CB, LB, OG, S).

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=mcalderone10]so then who has the 53rd pick in the draft this year?

just so you don't have to go to redskins.com or anywhere else i did for you...


To obtain McIntosh, the Redskins traded the 53rd pick in the second round of this year's draft, the 189th pick in the sixth round of this year's draft and a second-round pick in the 2007 NFL Draft.[/quote]

and they got a 2nd rounder in return. so we had a net loss one 1 2007 2nd round pick and 1 2006 6th round pick. that's what SnC is saying. trade 3 for 1 = -2.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=That Guy]the problem i had with the trade is that better talent was available at 35 than what we took and impact players were still there at 53 (at CB, LB, OG, S).[/quote]

I strongly disagree with the notion that you can go into a draft and be really flexible with the guys you draft. You can't go in there and be like oh this guy will work, and if we don't get him, this other guy will work. No.

The whole reason you scout players and do your research is to uncover what you think are the real gems. Then when you think you've found one, you stick to your convictions and you go get him.

I think Gibbs and Williams liked McIntosh for a reason. Williams needs flexibility, he needs intelligence, he needs blitz capability, he needs speed to cover the tougher TEs, but most of all he needed a weakside LB. We didn't need Justice as a backup OL, or a backup Safety with our 2nd round pick. That wouldn't make any sense.

When teams say they're going to pick "best available player", that means who THEY think is the best available. Not the conventional wisdom best player available. You do your own scouting, your own research, and draw your own conclusions.

And I think Gibbs and Williams are better at drawing conclusions about players than just about anybody else out there.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

how you get good teams is by covering your bases in FA and drafting the best talent you can use. not overpaying for one player when guys that can also be better quality starters for you are also available. we still need DB and OL depth, those needs didn't magically disappear because we took an OLB.

jon alston also fits your list of needs of being smart and fast.

in order to maximize talent, you have to have more than one player you can live with.

you think the eagles thought they'd get bunkley or justice without an expensive trade? no, but they got both anyways, which can be solid starters for them for 10 years.

trying to jusitify our pick post-draft doesn't have to include bashing the maximizing of talent as wrong, even if the skins choose not to do it.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=That Guy]how you get good teams is by covering your bases in FA and drafting the best talent you can use. not overpaying for one player when guys that can also be better quality starters for you are also available. we still need DB and OL depth, those needs didn't magically disappear because we took an OLB.

jon alston also fits your list of needs of being smart and fast.

in order to maximize talent, you have to have more than one player you can live with.

you think the eagles thought they'd get bunkley or justice without an expensive trade? no, but they got both anyways, which can be solid starters for them for 10 years.

trying to jusitify our pick post-draft doesn't have to include bashing the maximizing of talent as wrong, even if the skins choose not to do it.[/quote]

"Maximizing talent" is a useless strategy if you determine that a certain player's talents aren't a good fit for the way you play football. In today's NFL when players often leave a team after 3 or 4 years, the player you pick needs to fit into your system quickly. They need to be teachable first and foremost. Their skill sets need to fit your schemes. You can't do something ridiculous like drafting Jimmy Williams, playing him at safety, and moving Adam Archuleta to LB.

The draft is not about "maximizing talent." It's about players that can help your team maximize performance as a unit. Talent (as determined by the media) is not always the driver behind performance. You need fit first. Talent is secondary to fit.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=Schneed10]"Maximizing talent" is a useless strategy if you determine that a certain player's talents aren't a good fit for the way you play football. In today's NFL when players often leave a team after 3 or 4 years, the player you pick needs to fit into your system quickly. They need to be teachable first and foremost. Their skill sets need to fit your schemes. You can't do something ridiculous like drafting Jimmy Williams, playing him at safety, and moving Adam Archuleta to LB.

The draft is not about "maximizing talent." It's about players that can help your team maximize performance as a unit. Talent (as determined by the media) is not always the driver behind performance. You need fit first. Talent is secondary to fit.[/quote]

that was a joke you OBVIOUSLY didn't get, since that's the second you've referenced it like that. where did i argue that finding players to fit your system is a bad thing? I've just said that flexibility in drafting is key, which for some reason you've taken up arms against.

I never said anything bad about mcintosh as a player and i'm not the only one that hated the price.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=That Guy]that was a joke you OBVIOUSLY didn't get, since that's the second you've referenced it like that. where did i argue that finding players to fit your system is a bad thing? I've just said that flexibility in drafting is key, which for some reason you've taken up arms against.

I never said anything bad about mcintosh as a player and i'm not the only one that hated the price.[/quote]

OK fair enough, I've harped on the Archuleta thing enough. I guess I missed the sarcasm. Glad to hear you were kidding.

But as for the price, I don't see what all the fuss is about. According to this [URL="http://www.eastcoastsportsnews.com/NFLDraftChart.html"]draft value chart[/URL] the 35th pick is worth 550 points. The 53rd is worth 370, so we needed to pay an additional 180 points.

We gave up a 6th rounder this year, which is worth in the realm of 20 points or so. So we still needed to send 160 points to the Jets to make it fair. We sent a second round pick next year, which has the same value as a 3rd round pick this year. Third round picks in the latter half of the 3rd round (we're likely to be in the latter half of the round next year, we should have a winning team) are valued at right around 116-190. The price seems totally reasonable to me. I don't see why you're up in arms, That Guy. Aren't you the one who posts these draft value charts and stuff?

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=Schneed10]OK fair enough, I've harped on the Archuleta thing enough. I guess I missed the sarcasm. Glad to hear you were kidding.

But as for the price, I don't see what all the fuss is about. According to this [URL="http://www.eastcoastsportsnews.com/NFLDraftChart.html"]draft value chart[/URL] the 35th pick is worth 550 points. The 53rd is worth 370, so we needed to pay an additional 180 points.

We gave up a 6th rounder this year, which is worth in the realm of 20 points or so. So we still needed to send 160 points to the Jets to make it fair. We sent a second round pick next year, which has the same value as a 3rd round pick this year. Third round picks in the latter half of the 3rd round (we're likely to be in the latter half of the round next year, we should have a winning team) are valued at right around 116-190. The price seems totally reasonable to me. I don't see why you're up in arms, That Guy. Aren't you the one who posts these draft value charts and stuff?[/quote]

what i meant was we could have taken him later on. gibbs got anxious though and the jets placed a call, so the deal was done. pointswise we made out, but the jets didn't care cause they got a pick or two and still got the player they wanted. value charts are used, but they don't match up to specific available players very well.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

One thing that I think is a non factor, is the Wonderlic. I am glad that he isnt a complete idiot, like the rest of the players in the NFL, and got a 29, but seriously that test doesnt really say much. I have taken one for kicks, and it is so easy and boring it becomes difficult to focus while you take it; thats how bad it is. And come on McNabb got a terrible score on that test, and he is one of the better QBs out there. That throws away the fact that a qb "needs" to get 30-40 on that test. No written test can tell you how you perform on the field. Seriously the score really doesnt matter, unless you get low teens or single digits, and that means you have some other really big issues. I think getting a high score isnt that great either, and its especially not a good justification of Rocky. Now I do think its a great added bonus. The part I dont like is it almost seems that to Gibbs, Rocky's score was one of the major factors that affected the Skins choice.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=hooskins]One thing that I think is a non factor, is the Wonderlic. I am glad that he isnt a complete idiot, like the rest of the players in the NFL, and got a 29, but seriously that test doesnt really say much. I have taken one for kicks, and it is so easy and boring it becomes difficult to focus while you take it; thats how bad it is. And come on McNabb got a terrible score on that test, and he is one of the better QBs out there. That throws away the fact that a qb "needs" to get 30-40 on that test. No written test can tell you how you perform on the field. Seriously the score really doesnt matter, unless you get low teens or single digits, and that means you have some other really big issues. I think getting a high score isnt that great either, and its especially not a good justification of Rocky. Now I do think its a great added bonus. The part I dont like is it almost seems that to Gibbs, Rocky's score was one of the major factors that affected the Skins choice.[/quote]

I think his 3 degree's from college show he's more intellligent (and focused) than his 29 on a wonderlic.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=That Guy]what i meant was we could have taken him later on. gibbs got anxious though and the jets placed a call, so the deal was done. pointswise we made out, but the jets didn't care cause they got a pick or two and still got the player they wanted. value charts are used, but they don't match up to specific available players very well.[/quote]

You think Rocky would have fallen to #53? What makes you say that? Why do you think he would have fallen that far? Did Mel Kiper have him falling that far? Did sportswriters think he'd fall that far? Based on what? Did you call around the league like Chris Mortensen and find out that nobody wanted McIntosh before #53?

This is my whole problem, That Guy. HOW DO YOU KNOW???

YOU DON'T. The attitude drives me nuts. You make blanket statements as if you know what the NFL GMs were thinking about Rocky McIntosh. You've done a lot of research, and that's great. But it's what the GMs are thinking that really matters.

Maybe he would have fallen. Maybe he wouldn't. We have no way of knowing. And no team who picked between 35 and 53 is going to come out and say "we wanted Rocky McIntosh" because then they'd just be pissing off the player they actually picked, making him think he was their backup plan.

Bottom line is Gibbs and Williams didn't want to chance it. They saw a run on LBs and they made sure to get their guy. Player value, schmayer value. Nobody knows if it was worth it. It's all speculation. We'll just have to see.

Chart-wise it was fair. If he's good, we got value. If he sucks, we didn't. We'll just have to wait and see.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

A 29 is still pretty good from what I understand.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=That Guy]I think his 3 degree's from college show he's more intellligent (and focused) than his 29 on a wonderlic.[/quote]

I agree, but I still feel his degrees in criminology and english arent the hardest. But I do give him props, bc football does keep you busy. I guess my original point is Gibbs mentioned the Wonderlic numerous times, even more than his majors, so I am not talking about Rocky's intelligence, but more Gibbs focus on the Wonderlic as his tool of seeing that intelligence. It just made me feel nervous everytime he mentioned Rocky's wonderlic, as if it was an important very very factor.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=That Guy]I think his 3 degree's from college show he's more intellligent (and focused) than his 29 on a wonderlic.[/quote]

Now this I agree with. I don't think Gibbs relied on the Wonderlic. I think they interviewed him and grilled him with football questions. They met with him and got a feel for his football acumen. I don't think they relied solely on the wonderlic. It's just that Gibbs mentioned it in his presser, that's all.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

And now he's married, so he knows how to take orders...

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=Schneed10]You think Rocky would have fallen to #53? What makes you say that? Why do you think he would have fallen that far? Did Mel Kiper have him falling that far? Did sportswriters think he'd fall that far? Based on what? Did you call around the league like Chris Mortensen and find out that nobody wanted McIntosh before #53?

This is my whole problem, That Guy. HOW DO YOU KNOW???

YOU DON'T. The attitude drives me nuts. You make blanket statements as if you know what the NFL GMs were thinking about Rocky McIntosh. You've done a lot of research, and that's great. But it's what the GMs are thinking that really matters.

Maybe he would have fallen. Maybe he wouldn't. We have no way of knowing. And no team who picked between 35 and 53 is going to come out and say "we wanted Rocky McIntosh" because then they'd just be pissing off the player they actually picked, making him think he was their backup plan.

Bottom line is Gibbs and Williams didn't want to chance it. They saw a run on LBs and they made sure to get their guy. Player value, schmayer value. Nobody knows if it was worth it. It's all speculation. We'll just have to see.

Chart-wise it was fair. If he's good, we got value. If he sucks, we didn't. We'll just have to wait and see.[/quote]

please show me where i said he'd fall to 53? i, in fact, said i DIDN'T think he'd fall that far. nor did i ever say I knew where any specific player would go (outside of 1st round predictions).

In essence, we only targetted 2 players (fasano, mcintosh) that had any reasonable chance to fall to us and never considered trading down (judging on actions and who they brought in). that's what bugs me. a big expensive scouting staff and we bring in 3 guys we know we can't get without next year's 1st going down the tubes, and only 2 with realistic chances to fall to 53.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=That Guy]please show me where i said he'd fall to 53? i, in fact, said i DIDN'T think he'd fall that far. nor did i ever say I knew where any specific player would go (outside of 1st round predictions).

In essence, we only targetted 2 players (fasano, mcintosh) that had any reasonable chance to fall to us and never considered trading down (judging on actions and who they brought in). that's what bugs me. a big expensive scouting staff and we bring in 3 guys we know we can't get without next year's 1st going down the tubes, and only 2 with realistic chances to fall to 53.[/quote]

When you feel you're close to winning a championship and you think you just need one more piece of the puzzle, I applaud the move with a standing ovation. I don't understand why it would make sense to settle for multiple players when we only really need one really good one.

Hopefully Gibbs is right about McIntosh being that really good one to step in there and help. And hopefully he's right about us being close. At this point, I would rather have one playmaker at a need position rather than multiple players providing depth at other spots.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[quote=Schneed10]When you feel you're close to winning a championship and you think you just need one more piece of the puzzle, I applaud the move with a standing ovation. I don't understand why it would make sense to settle for multiple players when we only really need one really good one.[/quote]
I, for one, am not so certain that we weren't close enough to win a championship with the team we had pre-draft. So that begs the philosophical question; should the pick have been used for the present or the future? If the former, you have to believe the coaching staff is looking to start McIntosh as a rookie because of something they saw in him that no other LB prospect had. If the latter, then I don't believe the trade up is justifiable. Fasano was around at 53, as was Jon Alston.

I can only assume that the pick was to be used for the current season. Whether this was necessary is a subjective matter.

All in all from a 2006 standpoint, I'm very happy we got our guy.

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]When you feel you're close to winning a championship and you think you just need one more piece of the puzzle, I applaud the move with a standing ovation. I don't understand why it would make sense to settle for multiple players when we only really need one really good one.

Hopefully Gibbs is right about McIntosh being that really good one to step in there and help. And hopefully he's right about us being close. At this point, I would rather have one playmaker at a need position rather than multiple players providing depth at other spots.[/QUOTE]
I agree, but I hate how we always have to give up picks. He's a solid tackler and has been really productive at the U. Yeah, we could have waited and grabbed another OLB, but this guy did go to the U and I'm happy to add a Miami LB to our team. We have to let LeMar stay at MLB with 4 interceptions, taking over play calls, so Hodge didn't fit. Miami......Vilma, Ray Lewis, DJ Williams, now we have a LB in McIntosh.....I'm pretty happy with Portis, Sean Taylor (no jail please), Santana from the U (Barrow we won't discuss) Gibbs knows LBs well, no one talks about Monte Coleman, Neal Olkawitz, but they won super bowls. It's funny to hear that LaVar wasn't considered a 3 down LB by GW but this kid is...we know he's better than Holdman already and he's got good mentors in Marshall and Washington...and if McCune and Clemons get into the mix, we should be all set at LB. Also we should never question GW, so McIntosh must be a winner if Williams wanted him

Re: Skins officially pick Rocky McIntosh
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Who cares about the low draft picks, the Skins can't seem to pick any winners past the 2nd or 3rd round anyway.[/QUOTE]

Well that better change or we are in big trouble down the road!!!