Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

sometimes I think joe's loyalty gets in the way of winning and/or progress. :(

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;227109]Doesn't anyone else here find it ironic that people get all excited when talking about Gibbs' loyalty to the Redskins organization ("Oh he said he could never coach another team. He's not like Parcells. He's awesome!") yet at the same time bitch and moan when he shows loyalty to his players?[/quote]

Nobody' questioning Gibb's loyalty to the team or to his players. I just feel like Mark needs to produce now or move over, so at least we can see if JC is the real deal. Who knows, we may find out that JC can't produce either. What ever the case, if you take a look around the NFL all of the successful teams have proven QB's. You have to have a solid foundation to build on, and the QB position has to be the most stable and unchanged. Even if Mark gets us to the playoffs, and thats a big IF. What next? He hasn't got 10 more years in him.


Isn't it time for Jason Campbell?

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

I think Campbell has shown that he could potentially be our best QB in decades. But I don't think it means it's time

If it will get people to stop putting the blame on Brunell for everything that goes wrong with the team than sure put him Campbell in. It'll be nice to have a new QB to blame

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

Kinda like how we were supposed to shut up and go away about the poor pre-season, Tafkas?

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

All I'm saying is everything doesn't go back to the QB. It's not that simple.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

our offense is built to be smash mouth, run down your throat, offense. this finess crap doesn't fit our line. They said it last year, let us attack the D-line, let us run it right at them. Like they did the last 6 games last year. Portis ran his ass off behind that O-Line. to not run on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1 was a slap in their face. I think sometimes Al tries to get a little to fancy with the plays. We just need to line up and let them win the game in the trenches. When they start playing that 8th man at the line, that is when we hit them with some play actions deep or over the middle.

Our O-line looked very unmotivated against the Giants. I think that had to do with the calls. Plus, when teams KNOW to HAVE to pass, they pin their ears back and go after the QB. with two good pass rushers able to just rush the passer, it makes for a long day if you are a QB.

Redskin football isn't this crap we did Sunday, its what we did the last part of the year. Plus, with our O going 3 and out so many damn times, the D is on the field a lot more than last year. The D will play better, be fresher if they are on the sidelines for a while to catch their wind.
but what do I know!

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[QUOTE=REDSKIN1;227114]Nobody' questioning Gibb's loyalty to the team or to his players. I just feel like Mark needs to produce now or move over, so at least we can see if JC is the real deal. Who knows, we may find out that JC can't produce either. What ever the case, if you take a look around the NFL all of the successful teams have proven QB's. You have to have a solid foundation to build on, and the QB position has to be the most stable and unchanged. Even if Mark gets us to the playoffs, and thats a big IF. What next? He hasn't got 10 more years in him.


Isn't it time for Jason Campbell?[/QUOTE]


Who cares about loyality. People are paid to be loyal in pro sports today. I (and I think most fans as well) only care about winning and if loyality or whatever one wants to call it gets in the way of winning than its not doing anyone any good.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;227128]All I'm saying is everything doesn't go back to the QB. It's not that simple.[/QUOTE]

Since you dont agree with the pieces I think it goes back to, what do you think it goes back to?

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

My bad I misread the post.

Either way, the MB bashing after every loss is beyond old. I'm not going to even bother anymore.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[QUOTE=irish;227135]Since you dont agree with the pieces I think it goes back to, what do you think it goes back to?[/QUOTE]

Many things. Here are a few:

-We miss Springs and Prioleau a lot
-I like the depth we added at WR with Lloyd and El, but I thought then and think now someone like Jurevicius would have fit in better. Ideally our top 3 would have been Moss, El, and Vicius
-Chris Samuels and Dockery are no comparison at all to Jacoby/Lachey and Grimm. Things we may have thought we could do just like the first time around we can't
-Brunell has been inconsistent (yeah I said it. He doesn't suck like so many want to believe but he needs to be more consistent. Same could be said for the whole team)
-Carter hasn't been the playmaker I thought he would be
-Salavea, already an overachiever, has not been healthy
-We played two division opponents on the road. Not an excuse but those are not easy games ever

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

Tafkas, very few of us are blaming all of the skins problems on Brunell, but I would easily put him in the top 3.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;227144]Many things. Here are a few:

-We miss Springs and Prioleau a lot
-I like the depth we added at WR with Lloyd and El, but I thought then and think now someone like Jurevicius would have fit in better. Ideally our top 3 would have been Moss, El, and Vicius
-Chris Samuels and Dockery are no comparison at all to Jacoby/Lachey and Grimm. Things we may have thought we could do just like the first time around we can't
-Brunell has been inconsistent (yeah I said it. He doesn't suck like so many want to believe but he needs to be more consistent. Same could be said for the whole team)
-Carter hasn't been the playmaker I thought he would be
-Salavea, already an overachiever, has not been healthy
-We played two division opponents on the road. Not an excuse but those are not easy games ever[/QUOTE]

I agree with all your points but they are problems for this year and IMO are symptoms of the bigger organizational problems I highlighted.

I especially agree with Vicious. I really wanted the skins to sign him but knew they wouldnt because he was not sexy enough for this organization. Randal El is another example of my pay before play problem. He had 1 decent year with Pgh (mostly as a trick play man) and therew a nice TD pass in the Super Bowl but was no way worth the $ the skins gave him.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[quote=railcon56;226271]When Eli hit 2 deep passes...I was asking myself....Why Can't we ever take shots like that...... The Skins are 10 times as talented as the Gimps.... What's the weak link... answer that question?[/quote]


Those passes looked like punts.

They both should have been picked off!

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

exactly who would be intercepting those passes? Rogers? Ha, not even worth a response. i love taylor but he can't be everywhere (plus he's been beat a few times-which is going to happen).

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[quote=irish;227046]It is totally time for MB to move on but for some reason (I suspect because they are both very religious) Gibbs likes him. ...[/quote]

That must be the reason he kept Riggins and Theismann in the lineup after they were passed it... because they were so religious. (I "totally suspect" you're wrong.) There is absolutely nothing in Gibbs' track record to indicate favoritism toward "religious" players.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[quote=70Chip;227254]That must be the reason he kept Riggins and Theismann in the lineup after they were passed it... because they were so religious. (I "totally suspect" you're wrong.) There is absolutely nothing in Gibbs' track record to indicate favoritism toward "religious" players.[/quote]

I must add that's a totally ridiculous accusation.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

While I don't think the relgious aspect alone leads to Gibbs' favortism of Brunell, I think it's a factor. Gibbs and Brunell are very close to each other. They attend church together every Sunday, I've heard have dinner together often (could be a business thing) they have a lot in common, and I don't see Gibbs being able to sit down his boy (who he did spend a lot of money and draft pick on) unless he starts playing like he did his first season here.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

You know what, this chatter about Gibbs making personnel decisions based on church is nothing other than religious bigotry pure and simple. And by the way, it has been a while since I've darkened a church door, so I'm not taking it as an attack on my faith.

But I do respect those who have faith as an important part of their life. These attacks are in my book no different than dropping the N bomb. Like every other form of bigotry, it comes from nothing other than ignorance and stupidity pure and simple.

For you rocket scientists who think religion impacts Gibbs personnel decisions, you have to come up with some real interesting way to explain why in the hell Gibbs flew to Kansas to talk Riggo into coming back to play for him.

This talk -- not just on this board, but elsewhere -- is stupid and offensive.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[quote=RiggoRules;227290]You know what, this chatter about Gibbs making personnel decisions based on church is nothing other than religious bigotry pure and simple. And by the way, it has been a while since I've darkened a church door, so I'm not taking it as an attack on my faith.

But I do respect those who have faith as an important part of their life. These attacks are in my book no different than dropping the N bomb. Like every other form of bigotry, it comes from nothing other than ignorance and stupidity pure and simple.

For you rocket scientists who think religion impacts Gibbs personnel decisions, you have to come up with some real interesting way to explain why in the hell Gibbs flew to Kansas to talk Riggo into coming back to play for him.

This talk -- not just on this board, but elsewhere -- is stupid and offensive.[/quote]

Stupid...maybe. Bigotry...no.

I certainly didn't read Daseal's post as an attack on religion, only that their personal bond (in this case via a shared faith) may be clouding Gibbs decision to play or not to play Brunell. That is a far cry from religious intolerance in my book. No where did I see an attack on religion itself.

Personally, I do NOT believe their common faith impacts Gibbs personnel decisions, but the linkage is obvious enough that I can see why some would question this.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

A personal relationship and bond is one thing, but saying that Gibbs favors him simply because of religion is garbage.

The man didn't win as many games as he has by playing favorites based on who goes to church with him.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

My problem with gibbs he to loyal to a qb that never won anything for him. 2004 was so painful to watch and take. So were the playoffs games last year and especially most of this year. The redskins will never win a championship with Brunell and most likely won't make the playoffs again with him. He not a big game Qb he has had some moment but he cant take the team on his back when we need him to. Never gave Ramsey a fair shot which is fine but geez how many shot does Brunell get. We trade 3 or 4 picks to get campbell and who knows how good he is, i dont think he great but hey rather take my chance with a younger guy since most likely were not going anywhere.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;227305]A personal relationship and bond is one thing, but saying that Gibbs favors him simply because of religion is garbage.

The man didn't win as many games as he has by playing favorites based on who goes to church with him.[/quote]

Yeah of course religion is not the sole factor, but because of the way Gibbs is religiously, the fact it was his call to spend boatloads of money on Brunell, and how Gibbs is known to stick with his QB even in bad times all adds to it. I think claiming religion is the sole reason is incorrect, but considering it a piece of the puzzle may not be a huge stretch considering the facts above.

I mean look at it this way, there is no denying that if there was a QB on our roster, 100% equal to Brunell in skill, Gibbs would go with Brunell because of their personal relationship, which also occurs in church. The main question is, by going to the same church, have they both developed a closer bond? I would think so. Now does this bond influence his choice of who to put as starter to some extent? Perhaps, we don't know.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;227318]Yeah of course religion is not the sole factor, but because of the way Gibbs is religiously, the fact it was his call to spend boatloads of money on Brunell, and how Gibbs is known to stick with his QB even in bad times all adds to it. I think claiming religion is the sole reason is incorrect, but considering it a piece of the puzzle may not be a huge stretch considering the facts above.

I mean look at it this way, there is no denying that if there was a QB on our roster, 100% equal to Brunell in skill, Gibbs would go with Brunell because of their personal relationship, which also occurs in church. The main question is, by going to the same church, have they both developed a closer bond? I would think so. Now does this bond influence his choice of who to put as starter to some extent? Perhaps, we don't know.[/QUOTE]

Ramsey and Campbell are also religious people. When he was here Ramsey and Brunell spent a lot of time together. What if, and I don't know if it's the case or not, Gibbs went to church with all his QBs? Would this religion argument still hold water?

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

yikes. can we have a discussion about Gibbs not being or involving God at all?

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

Coach Gibbs has said himself that he prays about major decisions he has to make. I don't think he literally prays about who needs to be in what position, but I do think he is the type of man who prays for wisdom in all areas of his life and career.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[QUOTE=irish;227099]I'm just wondering how you know AS knew JG would be involved when Gibbs himself said he was turning the O over to AS and it seems AS has total control until the team hits the 35. I understand and expect Gibbs to make the go/no go call on 4th down but I dont understand why a team would hire people and not let them do their job.[/QUOTE]

From the Washington Post's Jason La Canfora

[url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/]Redskins Insider[/url]

For all of you loyal sports radio hounds, I was ordered to ask a few questions to Gibbs and Saunders today that I already knew the answer to. But I guess that's what happens in a market with misguided "experts" on the radio.

Must be easy to sit, all cozy and clueless in a studio, like two morning microphone jockeys I can think of. You can spout off about everything, call yourself a "Sports Reporter," and go off halfcocked all day long without ever doing anything remotely constructive to actually report anything. So much for common sense. So much for accountability.

Al Saunders calls all the plays. He's called every play all year long. He said so. Gibbs said so. Getting to the 35-yard line has nothing to do with anything.

Saunders has 10 seconds to get the play in - not exactly time for a caucus - but then again any "sports reporter" who had actually ever stepped foot in this building during the entire three years of this Gibbs era would already know that. Gibbs converses between plays and sets up strategy, and QB Coach Bill Lazor relays it to Brunell's helmet. Gibbs handles fourth down decisions, when to kick, etc. Saunders calls the plays. It really is that simple.

Basically, all of this was covered in depth in January when the coaching transition took place, and has happened exactly according to that plan since then. There's a reason why a dedicated group of beat writers from various media organizations did not raise an eyebrow during Monday's press conference when Gibbs was asked about playcalling and the fourth-down decision to try the field goal. It's because there was absolutely no news in his response. One radio station turned their misguided opinions into a crusade, taking aim at people who actually do real journalism for a living in the process.

Hmmm. Who would you believe?

All I know about Steve Czaban is that Gibbs refused to talk to him a few years back after he missed the boat entirely again on another non-story, when Gibbs made some jokes with NASCAR reporters. A short while later Gibbs was off the air with that station entirely.

So that might explain the juvenile conspiracy theories right there. It also explains why I love the IPOD connector in my car. Listen at your own peril.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;227416]From the Washington Post's Jason La Canfora

[url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/]Redskins Insider[/url]

For all of you loyal sports radio hounds, I was ordered to ask a few questions to Gibbs and Saunders today that I already knew the answer to. But I guess that's what happens in a market with misguided "experts" on the radio.

Must be easy to sit, all cozy and clueless in a studio, like two morning microphone jockeys I can think of. You can spout off about everything, call yourself a "Sports Reporter," and go off halfcocked all day long without ever doing anything remotely constructive to actually report anything. So much for common sense. So much for accountability.

Al Saunders calls all the plays. He's called every play all year long. He said so. Gibbs said so. Getting to the 35-yard line has nothing to do with anything.

Saunders has 10 seconds to get the play in - not exactly time for a caucus - but then again any "sports reporter" who had actually ever stepped foot in this building during the entire three years of this Gibbs era would already know that. Gibbs converses between plays and sets up strategy, and QB Coach Bill Lazor relays it to Brunell's helmet. Gibbs handles fourth down decisions, when to kick, etc. Saunders calls the plays. It really is that simple.

Basically, all of this was covered in depth in January when the coaching transition took place, and has happened exactly according to that plan since then. There's a reason why a dedicated group of beat writers from various media organizations did not raise an eyebrow during Monday's press conference when Gibbs was asked about playcalling and the fourth-down decision to try the field goal. It's because there was absolutely no news in his response. One radio station turned their misguided opinions into a crusade, taking aim at people who actually do real journalism for a living in the process.

Hmmm. Who would you believe?

All I know about Steve Czaban is that Gibbs refused to talk to him a few years back after he missed the boat entirely again on another non-story, when Gibbs made some jokes with NASCAR reporters. A short while later Gibbs was off the air with that station entirely.

So that might explain the juvenile conspiracy theories right there. It also explains why I love the IPOD connector in my car. Listen at your own peril.[/QUOTE]

Good quote, thanks for the info. All I know is that Gibbs said in his presser that AS pretty much calls the game but when the team gets to the 35 we talk. I guess that can be read any way one wants to read it.

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Czaban is a jackass.

These guys on the radio who do nothing but try to drum up controversy are really ridiculous. Whatever happened to supporting the home team, that doesn't mean you have to be a blind homer but with some of these guys you have to wonder what their true agenda is.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

The religion argument holds no water. Next topic.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;227452]Czaban is a jackass.

These guys on the radio who do nothing but try to drum up controversy are really ridiculous. Whatever happened to supporting the home team, that doesn't mean you have to be a blind homer but with some of these guys you have to wonder what their true agenda is.[/QUOTE]

It's a national show so I guess they don't consider themselves local enough to support a home team. I actually love the show. Czaban is funny and the show is often really good but his views when it comes to the Skins are really jaded. He is a devote Skins lover and hates the losing and REALLY hates Danny Boy. I think the biggest issue is that he used to do a show with Gibbs and Gibbs got pissed at some of Czaban's questioning and stopped doing the show. He is just really jaded when it comes the the coaching staff and front office. Everyone else on the show are fans of other teams so they get no love there.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;227452]Czaban is a jackass.

These guys on the radio who do nothing but try to drum up controversy are really ridiculous. Whatever happened to supporting the home team, that doesn't mean you have to be a blind homer but with some of these guys you have to wonder what their true agenda is.[/QUOTE]

If you want support for the home team you have to tune into Snyder owned Redskins Radio. Unfortunately the signal on the stations are so weak you can barely get them in the DC area let alone NY where you are.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;225881]I simply cannot understand how our offense looks so potent one week and so awful the next. It's not the quality of the opponents because we torched a great Jacksonville defense. It's not the location of the game, as the offense has looked good at home and away. I do not believe that Brunell is the main reason why our offense has looked inconsistent. True, Brunell has looked inconsistent, but so has the offensive line.

Thoughts?[/quote]I think it's quite simple. We went on the road following a hard fought win at home against a defense that sees us twice a year, with multiple linebackers who used to play for us. The offense didn't play horrible at all, I just think we ran into a very prepared defense with HFA on it's side. The raw offensive numbers can be decieving because time of possession was so damn lopsided against us. Brunell was 12/22 (55%) I believe. Thats average at best. But, on the road espicially, Brunells figures will be a microchosim of team offensive production. Not a true measure of Brunell himself as a QB.

I think the real question is "What is Wrong with the Defense?" And I hope the answer is Shawn Springs.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[quote=Twilbert07;226308]Better yet, Brunell has three times as many losses this season as P. Manning and Brady combined.[/quote]Teams lose games, not players.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[quote=irish;227465]If you want support for the home team you have to tune into Snyder owned Redskins Radio. Unfortunately the signal on the stations are so weak you can barely get them in the DC area let alone NY where you are.[/quote]

The funny thing about the Snyder owned stations is, John Riggins(who hated Snyder six months ago) is now working for him. He does an afternoon radio show that focuses on the Redskins, and he questions coaching decisions all the time. He's not quite the Gibbs homer that you would expect. He just said yesterday that it might be better if Washington loses to the Titans, because it would spark changes in the lineup.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;227488]Teams lose games, not players.[/quote]

I disagree. Let's say a team is up, and the quarterback throws a pick that gets returned for a game winning touchdown. All of the blame for the loss will be placed on the quarterback that threw the interception.

And lots of people seemed to use the argument that LaVar Arrington sucked, and "he lost us several games by being out of position". I even heard dumbass Brian Mitchell make comment. Not that I agree with that particular remark, but most people seem to think one person can be blamed for losses.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

Games don't come down to one play, you can always look at a game as a whole and find a myriad of other plays and circumstances that contributed just as equally as the more obvious ones.

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

Damn Good Post BIG D

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[quote=61cad;227160]Those passes looked like punts.

They both should have been picked off![/quote]
well the point was ..he attempted them and guess what they were completed....suddenly.... Sean Taylor has to be abit more careful in run support..... yes a long interception is better than a short punt......

Re: What Is Wrong With The Offense?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;227047]Could have fooled me. He said Dilfer won a Super Bowl. And he shouldn't be compared to a loser like Brunell who never has.

Dilfer was in the right place at the right time. Brunell did take the Jags to two AFC Championship games, apart from his lack of a Super Bowl he's a better QB than Dilfer and has had a better career.

But whatever, the argument gets old. Everything is Brunell's fault. Fine.[/quote]
Well I have to agree... Brunell is much better than Dilfer ever was...