Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

Where the Hell are the Burgundy pants? HAIL from Nashville!

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=Crat92;228857]He should be in the top 10, throwin 5yd ass routes! Is he tryin' to win or make sure he has a top 10 passer rating? He wouldn't go down field if we were playin OHIO STATE! He needs to pull a Kerry Collins and tell Gibbs he can't lead this team! HAIL from Nashville![/quote]
Brunell throws The best 5 yard pass in the History of the NFL:benched:

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=mooby;228878]The defense is the source of the problem. The blame is just going to Brunell because he threw the pick to end our chances of winning. Part of the blame is Brunell's fault for the way he played at the end of the game, but he wouldn't have been put in that situation if it wasn't for the defense. Once the Skins have been officially eliminated from playoff contention, I'm all for putting Campbell in and letting him take his lumps. Until then, we need Brunell.[/quote]


The way he played at the end of the game???????? WTF were you watching? He looked like crap aside from one long bomb to Lloyd. If your D gets no respite then they can't hold even a shitty offense like the Titans showed.

Brunell lacks what it takes to WIN, he's showed that despite the best efforts of those around him. Start Campbell, what the mood of the whole team change.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

The D ruined our season, not Brunell.

I still think Brunell gives us the best chance to win this year, but it looks like this year is over. May as well see what Campbell can do.

I think they'll give Brunell one last chance and see if we can pull off a miracle in Indy. If (when) we lose to Indy, they'll groom Campbell during the bye week and start him after that.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

That'swhy they call you crazy.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

do u remember how dominating the d was in the first pre-season game?

what the hell happened

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

I'm all for benching Brunell simply to get a lot of ignorant people to shut the fuck up.

Maybe if we bench Brunell, put in JC and have the obvious results of having an inexperienced QB lead the team, people will recognize the slew of other problems facing us and realize that the QB position is the least of our worries. Worries like Travis Henry rushing for 178 yards, not picking off or pressuring a rookie QB with 3 starts, not giving CP more than 15 carries and blitzes so predictable a band of retarded puppies could defend them.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

By Benched do you mean deported to Iraq? Well yes.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=RedskinRat;228642]If Campbell doesn't start the next game I'm going to stop watching this bullshit.

Brunell cycling through his reads like a fucking rookie.[/quote]
What cycling? His head turns only 1nc from the snap!
I've lost my grip on the Brunell defending. Is there a better answer? At least we may see plz.

I still put this 1 on Defense though.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=dall-assblows;228985]do u remember how dominating the d was in the first pre-season game?

what the hell happened[/quote]

Do you mean on that first series...

[SIZE=5]Yeah, those were the days...wait they were trailing the first half and we still lost that game. But man, they played great huh............. yeahhhhhhhhhhhh.[/SIZE]

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=mheisig;228991]I'm all for benching Brunell simply to get a lot of ignorant people to shut the fuck up.

Maybe if we bench Brunell, put in JC and have the obvious results of having an inexperienced QB lead the team, people will recognize the slew of other problems facing us and realize that the QB position is the least of our worries. Worries like Travis Henry rushing for 178 yards, not picking off or pressuring a rookie QB with 3 starts, not giving CP more than 15 carries and blitzes so predictable a band of retarded puppies could defend them.[/quote]

Some of us calling for Brunell to be benched are well aware of "other" team issue that must be dealt with. I have no delusions that a Rookie QB will step in a win a bunch of games right away. What you fail to recognize is that Brunell is not getting the job done at his position and I would much rather see JC get the experience now while the "other" issues are dealt with concurrently. That way hopefully the team is ready to rock and roll next season and beyond. If not, well you learned that you don't have the future QB in JC and we can draft or sign appropriately in the off-season.

BTW, I'm not ignorant and I won't STFU...at least not until we get to see JC under center for better of for worse. Maybe you should consider limiting your comments to your own opinions instead of insulting people. FWIW, having a different opinion does not make people ignorant.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

how much worse can it get with starting JC? we arent winning the SB this year and no SB is a failure for the skins this year. if he is our qb of the future he needs to learn by playing so now is a better time than never. but i dont think gibbs will start him this week v.s. the colts on the road but if we lose to the colts he will have a bye week to get JC ready for the home game v.s. dallas. if were 2-5 JC needs to be in there bottom line. if hes not gibbs needs someone to get his head out of his ass because brunell is not the future

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

Once again morons come out and pin a whole game on one man's shoulders, I must apluad that. I mean portis did have a really great game didnt he? Sean Taylor and Washington did drop pics that would have prevented points, but kno your right Brunnel should have been there to pick those balls off and run for Portis. I really think Redskins fans maybe the stupidest fans in football, fanwise this might have been the worste home game ever.

The only reason JC should start is not to improve the team, becuase that he will certainly not do, buit to give him experiance and for that we are talking about mayb the last 4-6 games depending how were doing i mean honestly we made an amazing run last year why not again?

BTW: the same posts were cerculating last year and i and a few others said we still had a chance so stop predicting armegedon

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=Redskin;229005]

BTW: the same posts were cerculating last year and i and a few others said we still had a chance so stop predicting armegedon[/quote]

Except last season we were 5-6 deep into the season, we are in a BIGGER hole in within the first 6 games. And most people agree with your asssesment of why JC should be in...

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

Im just an optimistic person I guess you will say but I personally feel it would still be early for Cambell, lets say the Colts game decides it becuase honestly i think we should think of our defense befor e our offense, who wouldent of been happy with 22 points last year?

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

Redskin,

I understand your frustration, I'm just as frustrated, angry, etc. But, do you really need to say everyone is an idiot?

BTW, I dont think anyone is saying everything is Brunell's fault. A lot of people are also complaining (with good cause) about our defense if you hadn't noticed.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

Mark just cant get it done the way he needs to at this point and the D was extremely involved in that loss. Even if we won, I feel it would have been an ill gotten gain. We played like shit, and it shows.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

I would much rather see JC start and lose every damn game left than mb start and finish 4-12 or 5-11.Its time to start thinking about next year

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

brunell has no arm cant throw the deep ball to our wrs. the one good pass was to loyld. the offense is playing conservative because of brunells lack of arm. he has looked last year and the jax game because of moss. like i said if we lose next week it is time for JC.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=redskins5044;229017]brunell has no arm cant throw the deep ball to our wrs. the one good pass was to loyld. the offense is playing conservative because of brunells lack of arm. he has looked last year and the jax game because of moss. like i said if we lose next week it is time for JC.[/quote]

I think it is reasonable to put cample in if we lose next week only becuase it will be a bye week and he can prepare, Im just afraid he will be another Patrick Ramsey :(

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=Redskin;229018]I think it is reasonable to put cample in if we lose next week only becuase it will be a bye week and he can prepare, Im just afraid he will be another Patrick Ramsey :([/quote]

That is a legitamite fear and I can understand that. The fact is, no one knows because the kid hasn't touched a ball in an actual game yet. He could be the next coming of Joe Montana, but we'll simply never know until we decide to play him. I believe the team is better off finding out this year than in game 4 of next year.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

If Gibbs decides to play Jason Campbell, they could lose because he might throw 4 or 5 picks a game ... but right now, they're losing with Brunell's 90.8 QB rating.

As for the defense, let's not forget that the two starting defensive tackles, Griffin and Salave'a were out.

Still think Golston and Montgomery were diamonds in the rough?

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=Mc2guy;228877]Brunell has average stats due ONLY to the fact that he has stellar playmakers catching the ball. Watching other games I am amazed at how well even average QBs are hitting receivers over the middle in stride, even against decent defenses. We don't see that because our QB can't do it.

It amazes me that there are some of you who just watched the same game that I did and don't look at your QB as a major source of problems. I'm dumfounded that there are still some of you defending Brunell. He is incapable of stretching the field vertically and defeneses know that...why do you think the Titans were able to key in on teh short passes and screens today? Because they knew they didn't have to worry about the deeper routes. Then, when down big and desparate, we tried to throw down the field, the results of which were self evident.

Why on god's green earth would we wait until next year to play Campbell. As I said last week, [B]this season is done for us[/B] and the sooner to start making some pragmatic personnel decisions, the better this team can be in the future. Starting Campbell now means has two advantages. One, you find out if he has the IT factor necessary to be a pro QB and if he doesn't, well at least you know and you find out in a season that doesn't mean much. Second, finding out now means we can make smart decisions in Free Agency. If in fact it is determined that JC is not "The Man", for the future, why waste next year finding out? Waiting until next year to see if JC can play has NO BENEFIT to the team. If you can't see that, then you are blind to the reality that is slapping us all in the face.[/quote]Name me one quarterback in the league that has better stats, but worse weapons than Brunell does. Get over this perception that OUR guys are better than anyone elses because they are OUR guys. Randle El is a pretty average player and Lloyd isn't quite that good. They fit OUR system, which is a YAC based system. Moss does an excellent job after the catch, but dont crap on Brunell for consistently getting the ball to him in space.

If I remember correctly, Brunell hit Lloyd today for a 51 yard completion. So there goes that no deep ball arguement.

Season is done, eh? I didn't know it was January already. The reason you stay with Brunell is because he gives you the best chance to win. I know that. Joe Gibbs knows that. Al Saunders knows that. You play Campbell only when winning now takes a back seat to winning in the future. I don't think that point has been reached, and I hope no one else does. That would be a very closed minded, reactionary view of a poorly played game.

Although there is no comparision between Brunell and Palmer or McNabb, you are missing my point. What would you say to an Eagle fan who said that he would renounce his fanship if they didnt bench McNabb for such a horrible performance. I would probably start laughing at them. Which is what I would do now if the situation wasn't so dire here.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

one deep ball in a game doenst show me brunell has the ability to make plays. maybe with JC we would focus more on the running game to help him out. i am not blaming any of the loses soley on brunell but we need to find out what this kid has.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=GTripp0012;229032]Name me one quarterback in the league that has better stats, but worse weapons than Brunell does. Get over this perception that OUR guys are better than anyone elses because they are OUR guys. Randle El is a pretty average player and Lloyd isn't quite that good. They fit OUR system, which is a YAC based system. Moss does an excellent job after the catch, but dont crap on Brunell for consistently getting the ball to him in space.

If I remember correctly, Brunell hit Lloyd today for a 51 yard completion. So there goes that no deep ball arguement.

Season is done, eh? I didn't know it was January already. The reason you stay with Brunell is because he gives you the best chance to win. I know that. Joe Gibbs knows that. Al Saunders knows that. You play Campbell only when winning now takes a back seat to winning in the future. I don't think that point has been reached, and I hope no one else does. That would be a very closed minded, reactionary view of a poorly played game.

Although there is no comparision between Brunell and Palmer or McNabb, you are missing my point. What would you say to an Eagle fan who said that he would renounce his fanship if they didnt bench McNabb for such a horrible performance. I would probably start laughing at them. Which is what I would do now if the situation wasn't so dire here.[/quote]

You're arguement about the lloyd pass has no merit. That was a hail mary pass if I have ever seen one.

I disagree that this season is not over. I am not being 'reactionary' I am simply looking at the facts. We are 2-4 due to poor play across the board with no quick fixes in sight. Furthermore we are facing a brutal schedule during the remaining 10 games. Sticking with Brunell because hes your "best" option to win is shortsighted. First I disagree that he's our best option to win now...he's is a significant part of our offensive problems IMHO. Second, what makes you believe Brunell is going to be able to win 8 of the next 10, which is what it will take for us to have a shot at the Wildcard?

Last, I have no idea what you are talking about with your renouncing fanship reference...I am a diehard fan...have been for 25 years since I was old enough to understand what I was watching. I'm not jumping ship...I will be here for the long haul, and I want whats best for the team. It is arrogant to believe your position makes you somehow more of a fan.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

Good points Mc2guy

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

I say let Campbell go in maybe after our sixth loss. Brunell is still our best bet to win games, which we would have won this one if the defense hadn't allowed Henry to run after first contact time and again. The Titans D definitely played better than expected. Their run D numbers are a little misleading since their opponents got early leads and, with Collins throwing INT's, were able to run the clock out. Brunell's last 3 and out series would have been so much different if the Titans safety hadn't layed out for the blocked pass. That was a great defensive play. Moss may have been able to turn it down the field for a score if not for that.

Holdman still sucks. I'm not even going to comment about the secondary. It's like having a birth defect: we just have to compensate for the impairment.

Bottom line: The coaches need to do some hard-nosed evaluations and recognize the problems.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;229032]Name me one quarterback in the league that has better stats, but worse weapons than Brunell does. Get over this perception that OUR guys are better than anyone elses because they are OUR guys. [/QUOTE]

I strongly disagree with the idea that Brunell does not have a lot of weapons. First of all, I tend to think he's playing behind an above-average (not great, but not average) offensive line. Second, there are a ton of QBs who would love to have Portis in the backfield, Moss and Cooley as the #1 and #2 receivers, and ARE and Lloyd as the #3 and #4 receivers.

I also disagree with your reference to Brunell's stats as a great indication of how good he is. Brunell's stats as also inflated because, as you note, this is a YAC-based offense; Brunell throws a 5 yard hitch route, Moss runs 50 yards, and Brunell gets credit for a 55 yard pass play. How does Brunell get credit for WRs' RAC and Portis throwing great blocks to get Moss free?

I don't understand the whole love-hate Brunell thing; either people adore the guy or the hate him. I tend to think that he's not as good as many think and not as bad as many others think.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;229032]Name me one quarterback in the league that has better stats, but worse weapons than Brunell does. Get over this perception that OUR guys are better than anyone elses because they are OUR guys. Randle El is a pretty average player and Lloyd isn't quite that good. They fit OUR system, which is a YAC based system. Moss does an excellent job after the catch, but dont crap on Brunell for consistently getting the ball to him in space.

If I remember correctly, Brunell hit Lloyd today for a 51 yard completion. So there goes that no deep ball arguement.

Season is done, eh? I didn't know it was January already. The reason you stay with Brunell is because he gives you the best chance to win. I know that. Joe Gibbs knows that. Al Saunders knows that. You play Campbell only when winning now takes a back seat to winning in the future. I don't think that point has been reached, and I hope no one else does. That would be a very closed minded, reactionary view of a poorly played game.

Although there is no comparision between Brunell and Palmer or McNabb, you are missing my point. What would you say to an Eagle fan who said that he would renounce his fanship if they didnt bench McNabb for such a horrible performance. I would probably start laughing at them. Which is what I would do now if the situation wasn't so dire here.[/QUOTE]

Which stat would you like?
David Carr, Donovan McNabb, Rex Grossman, and Phillip Rivers all have higher QB Ratings than Mark Brunell and all of them have worse weapons. The others with higher ratings? Bulger, the Mannings, and Brees.

How about TD's? Pretty similar list with more guys ahead: McNabb, Grossman, Brady, Leftwich, Favre, Carr, Alex Smith, Chad Pennington, Charlie Frye, Jon Kitna and even Damon Huard. Those are just the ones who I think have worse weapons.

He's even thrown as many pick as the "grossly overrated" (according to this board) Michael Vick. I don't wanna hear about the greatness of a guy who only throws deep when it looks the game has been lost.

I do agree that more of the blame should go to the defense, but you're not gonna convince me that making 1 play as the QB in the NFL is enough to win a football game.

Oh yeah, he's 12th in the league in yards and that's mostly cause of the wr's running after catch.

Also, these may not still be accurate because this was before these games have been added to the stats, but his rating will come down, he'll have 1 more TD and 1 more pick, so it won't really be much different otherwise.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;229051]I strongly disagree with the idea that Brunell does not have a lot of targets. First of all, I tend to think he's playing behind an above-average (not great, but not average) offensive line. Second, there are a ton of QBs who would love to have Portis in the backfield, Moss and Cooley as the #1 and #2 receivers, and ARE and Lloyd as the #3 and #4 receivers.

I also disagree with your reference to Brunell's stats as a great indication of how good he is. Brunell's stats as also inflated because, as you note, this is a YAC-based offense; Brunell throws a 5 yard hitch route, Moss runs 50 yards, and Brunell gets credit for a 55 yard pass play. Brunell is an average QB; he takes plays that are available to him and cannot make plays himself. Brunell is just one among many other problems, but you have to at least recognize that he is A problem.

I don't understand the whole love-hate Brunell thing; either people adore the guy or the hate him. I tend to think that he's not as good as many think and not as bad as many others think.[/quote]

Yeah he is average, only real positive is he is a vet, so he wont make that many costly turnovers in the middle of a game. I don't want Brunell in bc I am thinking about what is best for the team in the Long Run.

And guys guess what? What if Campbell turns out to be not that good?? Then wtf do we do? That is why he need atleast 6-7 games this year to get him up to NFL pace, otherwise we need to start looking for a QB again.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;229032]Name me one quarterback in the league that has better stats, but worse weapons than Brunell does.

The reason you stay with Brunell is because he gives you the best chance to win. I know that. Joe Gibbs knows that. Al Saunders knows that.[/QUOTE]

Just one quarterback? That would be McNabb. 107 QB rating, 11 TDs, 1 pick with over 1600 yards passing. That's with no running game, Donte Stallworth who's been out for the past two games, somebody named Reggie Brown, and Brian Westbrook who's also been banged up this year.

As for Brunell giving us the best chance to win ... well, reasonable people can disagree. But we don't know what Al Saunders thinks. He has absolutely zero input on who gets to the field and takes snaps.

Brunell is not solely to blame. But I do believe that when the team is struggling, you makes changes where you can. Right now, there's nothing you can do with the defense. They are what they are. Brunell is not managing the game, he's been ineffective, [B][U]and that did not start this season[/U][/B]. Check out his stats after the injury he took to the knee in the second Giants game last season.

Since this defense will likely stay bad throughout the year, so the offense must begin to start clicking. You have to play Campbell sooner or later.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

If Campbell turns out to be 'not-that-good' then we're royally screwed. Just one thing: He's great, not just good.

Get Campbell in NOW to save this season.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[QUOTE=RedskinRat;229056]If Campbell turns out to be 'not-that-good' then we're royally screwed. Just one thing: He's great, not just good.

Get Campbell in NOW to save this season.[/QUOTE]

RR,

I like your optimism and I pray that you are right. But what makes you so confident about JC? He might be great in the future, but I haven't seen anything to make me think he'd be better than Brunell, let alone great.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;229054]Yeah he is average, only real positive is he is a vet, so he wont make that many costly turnovers in the middle of a game. I don't want Brunell in bc I am thinking about what is best for the team in the Long Run.

[B]And guys guess what? What if Campbell turns out to be not that good?? Then wtf do we do? That is why he need atleast 6-7 games this year to get him up to NFL pace, otherwise we need to start looking for a QB again[/B].[/QUOTE]

Brilliant point. Unfortunately, Gibbs will take as long as he can to figure that out. I still say there's a bit of pride on the line for Gibbs who's bound and determined to prove he was right about Brunell. He was right for the better part of the 2005 season. But his favorite beverage is tipped on its end ... and there's nothing left but drips.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

You don't know what Campbell's gonna be, but you do know what Brunell is and, more importantly, what he isn't. This team isn't winning with him in. They're 2 and 4, I don't buy that Campbell couldn't have beaten the Texans, so they might be 1 game worse, but what would be the difference? If you don't think this season is over, then (like I said in another thread) you have my permission to throw this in my face when they make the playoffs. When that happens I'll say "You were right and I was wrong." Until that happens, I'm gonna go with my knowledge of football and realize that they have very little shot at making the playoffs.

For everyone who believes the season isn't over, please tell me which 8 games they're going to win:

Colts
Cowboys
Eagles
Bucs
Panthers
Falcons
Eagles
Saints
Rams
Giants

Just tell which 8 they'll win. And I really don't wanna hear about winning 5 straight last season cause they played defense then.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

It will take at least a broken leg before Gibbs will yank markie mark. But he sure showed a quick hook last year with old patrick.....

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[quote=jdlea;229069]You don't know what Campbell's gonna be, but you do know what Brunell is and, more importantly, what he isn't. This team isn't winning with him in. They're 2 and 4, I don't buy that Campbell couldn't have beaten the Texans, so they might be 1 game worse, but what would be the difference? If you don't think this season is over, then (like I said in another thread) you have my permission to throw this in my face when they make the playoffs. When that happens I'll say "You were right and I was wrong." Until that happens, I'm gonna go with my knowledge of football and realize that they have very little shot at making the playoffs.

For everyone who believes the season isn't over, please tell me which 8 games they're going to win:

Colts
Cowboys
Eagles
Bucs
Panthers
Falcons
Eagles
Saints
Rams
Giants

Just tell which 8 they'll win. And I really don't wanna hear about winning 5 straight last season cause they played defense then.[/quote]

We'll said, couldn't agree more.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[QUOTE=railcon56;229078]It will take at least a broken leg before Gibbs will yank markie mark. But he sure showed a quick hook last year with old patrick.....[/QUOTE]

And how is ol' Patrick doing this year? [/sarcasm]

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

[QUOTE=railcon56;229078]It will take at least a broken leg before Gibbs will yank markie mark. But he sure showed a quick hook last year with old patrick.....[/QUOTE]


Yep. I heard a local beat writer for the Skins once say that the only other quarterback Gibbs showed less patience for was Stan Humphries.

Re: Can We Bench Brunell Now
 

Not the Ramsey-Brunell thing again.....