Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[QUOTE=mason4415;250467]had to be 1) springs, 2) prileau (since he's kind of watching from afar), 3) jimoh, 4) rogers, 5) washington...

the player is definitely someone that has been with the team for at least the past 2 or 3 years.

i think this article was dead-on. the coaching (especially on defense) has been absolutely horrendous this year. that 3rd down play against joey galloway was the worst play call i have EVER seen. WHY??? are we blitzing 9 guys and making it known. Not only that, we had taylor blitzing on the snap, down on the line, and then some kind of delayed blitz by the linebackers. awful! what's the need? just play straight up and let the defensive line try and get some pressure. hell... just play straight up. a young guy like gradkowski will make a mistake and throw it to the wrong team. i absolutely loved reading the article because it's not the players. we have more than good enough players on BOTH sides of the ball to be a playoff team. IT IS THE COACHES! a good coach will adjust to the players that they have and put them in places they can succeed. This is just ridiculous. gregg williams is a piece of sh*t as a coach.[/QUOTE]

I thought maybe Prieolaeu too, except he was with GW in Buffalo so he wouldn't talk about that situation as if he were an outsider.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

The more I think about this the more it pisses me off. This was a bitch move by a player with no balls whatsoever. I have no respect for anyone who chooses to call people out when they themselves won't man up and show their own face. This player has an agenda and he proved that when he decided to get personal about the coaches. I'm a firm believer in not airing dirty laundry in public, because it serves no real purpose other than to shift blame from one to another. Of course we have problems, but you don't add fuel to the fire. Coach Gibbs was already taking steps to rectify the situation, but this player felt it was his duty to let everyone know the team's business without any regard for the effect it may have in the long term. This player has officially taken a massive dump on Coach Gibbs, the players and coaches who still give a sh*t and the fanbase as a whole.

I was looking forward to the rest of this season just for the fact that Campbell has breathed new life into it. It was going to be enjoyable just to watch him and hope for a better season next year. But now all I will get to do is worry about all the drama and suck on the bitter taste in my mouth.

Oh and thanks asshole for giving Coach Gibbs such a wonderful birthday present.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

I could have been Wright, he is in a one year contract. He is another player that I cant believe has been so bad. He started on a Jags team that went to the AFC Championship game.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[quote=chris36;250503]I could have been Wright, he is in his one year contract. He is another player that I cant believe has been so bad. He started on a Jags team that went to the AFC Championship game.[/quote]

But why would he come out like that, and bash this team if he hasnt been on it that long to see it's evolution?

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

Youre right, but Springs as far as I can see is nowhere near the end of his contract

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[quote=hooskins;250507]But why would he come out like that, and bash this team if he hasnt been on it that long to see it's evolution?[/quote]


Players do talk to eachother about things.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

Looking at the article and if you use the we and they terminology to narrow it down. When the Rat talks about the seperate meetings he says the corners are making calls on the field and the safeties were lost. He goes to say when the corners made the calls we were like we did not cover that. So if the corners covered it in their meeting it means the safeties did not cover it and know the calls.

I don't see Shawn Springs dropping the F bomb like this person did either.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;250490]Why should he be kicked out if he is speaking the truth? Either way it seems like he doesnt care if he is not on the team anymore, so this really doesnt matter.[/QUOTE]

Airing a team's dirty laundry is inexcusable; it only causes increased tension and spoils what little bit of chemistry this team still had left. What possible good could it bring? NONE.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;250512]Airing a team's dirty laundry is inexcusable; it only causes increased tension and spoils what little bit of chemistry this team still had left. What possible good could it bring? NONE.[/quote]

But most of us here on this site were really pissed off at the players and not the coaches at all. Of course this is just one person, and the story may well be blow out of proportion, but still I think we can all agree that this article has allowed many Skins fans to see that the coaching staff may also be held accountable for the failures this year, not just the players.

I mean, they make good points about AA and Carter. With the Rams, AA blew coverages, but not like this. The Bears arent stupid, they wanted him for a reason. And the players we cut in the secondary are now seemingly crucial to our teams D. I dont feel this article is 100% accurate, but it does have some elements of truth.

All I am saying, is most of us would think this article is just from a hater at ESPN, if it didnt have quotes in it. Since someone spoke up, the article has instant credibility.

I know some fans rather just be blind and let Gibbs do whatever behind the scenes to make us win, but when our team is failing I want to know all the reasons. Bc if you dont know what is really going on, then we all have scapegoats, like Brunell, Saunders, AA, Carter, when it is actually a combination of factors.

I dont put all blame on GW, but now I am more open to seeing the other side of things. That maybe it is not just the defensive players, but the coach also has responsibility.

I am worried about what this will do to the defense. When someone comes out and says this about the team and the coaches, it will have negative effects. But at the same time, we are all humans, and we have emotions. When someone's frustration has reached a point that they would come out and say this about their coach to ESPN Mag, means something serious is going on behind the scenes.

From this article I learn that atleast one player on the defense has a pulse and is not cocky about the team. I also learn that there may be more blame towards GW than the average fan thinks.

If this guy is saying all this, I am sure talk is going on amougst Redskins players about this all year. Now maybe the fanbase can hold coaches like GW accountable, rather than blindly following their every move like most of us did this previous offseason.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

Couple of things: GW's denfense has slipped little by little since 2004. Two people that should have never, ever left Washington was Antonio Pierce and Ryan Clark. All the rest you can have...maybe Walt Harris was a keeper, but oh well.

Secondly, I don't think the fact that this article has come out in the public will affect the Redskins any more adversly than it already has. I don't think these type of things affect the locker room like we think they do. I don't get the impression that this player is a locker room cancer, but on the contrary, he's simply sharing a common sentiment that has already exsited for most of the season. The reality is these guys talk to each other all the time, on the cell phone, text message, they go shopping and eating together, they party together...hell, they even shower together! So no one is going to be blown away by this article, I think. What was shared isn't new at Redskin Park or to any of the Redskins...it's just new to us.

I think Gibbs has their attention right now, but the real question is, is it too little, too late?

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[quote=chris36;250503]I could have been Wright, he is in a one year contract. He is another player that I cant believe has been so bad. He started on a Jags team that went to the AFC Championship game.[/quote]

He was only on the Jags for one season

[url=http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133457]NFL.com - Kenny Wright[/url]

Last I checked they didn't go to the AFC Championship last year

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

it was arrington i bet

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[quote=dall-assblows;250525]it was arrington i bet[/quote]


No way, dude. He said, notable Redskin. Uh..LaVar is Giant...and not too notable.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[quote=12thMan;250526]No way, dude. He said, notable Redskin. Uh..LaVar is Giant...and not too notable.[/quote]

that doesn't mean they are telling the truth. do you believe everything you hear or read?

plus if it was arrington and theyy said it was a redskin, wouldn't that further hide the fact that it was arrington?

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[quote=dall-assblows;250529]that doesn't mean they are telling the truth. do you believe everything you hear or read?

plus if it was arrington and theyy said it was a redskin, wouldn't that further hide the fact that it was arrington?[/quote]

Seriously, what credibilty would this article have if it was Arrington? It's well known that he parted on bad terms. So as far as Arringington having a beef with Williams is really a moot point, and that would be seriously weak journalism. As a matter of fact, how would Arrington know that the coaches aren't meeting?

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[quote=12thMan;250532]Seriously, 1-[B]what credibilty would this article have if it was Arrington?[/B] It's well known that he parted on bad terms. So as far as Arringington having a beef with Williams is really a moot point, and that would be seriously weak journalism. As a matter of fact, 2-[B]how would Arrington know that the coaches aren't meeting[/B]?[/quote]


1-i dont know, let me think. hello! he was a redskin in this defense for years.

2-how would any player know that if arrington doesn't?

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

Guys Arrington talks about the Skins ON the record all the time! Why would he use an anonymous source to talk about his old team, all the while pretending to know intimately what is going on this year? That's just dumb.

But Hooskins makes a point that I think is important. We have all crapped on Arch, but there you have a guy who Lovie Smith drafted and developed, and then heavily recruited to join the best defense in the league. Can he really be that bad? I saw a quote from Tony Larussa about Bellicheck and he said he was the best at putting players in positions to succeed, and ergo the best, and that's really it. The personnel has to come before the system and with GW it obviously doesn't.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

Good article. Bad message.

It also could have been Wright or Jimoh...

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[quote=chris36;250503]I could have been Wright, he is in a one year contract. He is another player that I cant believe has been so bad. He started on a Jags team that went to the AFC Championship game.[/quote]
Wright?...I almost forgot he was on our team...but I doubt if it were him, the player seem to be speaking of events that have taken place since he was here, and Wright doesn't even have a year under his belt. Nor is he familiar with the the way our player in the past were handled such as Clark, Arrington, and Pierce. I'm certain it's Springs.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[quote=Skins_4_Lyfe;250543]Wright?...I almost forgot he was on our team...but I doubt if it were him, the player seem to be speaking of events that have taken place since he was here, and Wright doesn't even have a year under his belt. Nor is he familiar with the the way our player in the past were handled such as Clark, Arrington, and Pierce. I'm certain it's Springs.[/quote]

Yeah that is what I think too, but this does not go with the Triple X radio report that the player who leaked this wanted out soon, when his contract ended. But Springs contract isnt ending till 09...

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

Who says it's a defensive player that is the source? The guys who have been the most vocal and opinionated to the media thus far have been offensive players (Jansen and Portis). Brunell just lost his job, maybe he wants to let the world know that the it ain't all his fault. I haven't checked any of theses contracts yet to see which one's is over soon...but I'll do so...right...NOW!

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

Nope, the only one who's contract ends soon is Betts....hmmm.

To be continued...

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;250549]Who says it's a defensive player that is the source? The guys who have been the most vocal and opinionated to the media thus far have been offensive players (Jansen and Portis). Brunell just lost his job, maybe he wants to let the world know that the it ain't all his fault. I haven't checked any of theses contracts yet to see which one's is over soon...but I'll do so...right...NOW![/quote]

Couldn't be Brunell...not after that wonderful Thank you, Mark Brunell thread that was started! Naw, couldn't have been him.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;250550]Nope, the only one who's contract ends soon is Betts....hmmm.

To be continued...[/quote]

lol, I highly doubt it is someone on the offense, bc this player knows way too much about the defensive schemes, the meetings, etc.

Also see this quote, there is no way this play would know this without being a DB or safety.

[I]Scapegoat No. 3: Rogers. He's the cornerback that was left on an island on the go-ahead touchdown Sunday against Tampa Bay's Joey Galloway. Williams blitzed and missed, costing the team the score. Afterward, Williams took public blame for the call, a rarity, but a Redskins player said, "No, he didn't. In meetings, Carlos still heard about it."[/I]

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[quote=hooskins;250552]lol, I highly doubt it is someone on the offense, bc this player knows way too much about the defensive schemes, the meetings, etc.

Also see this quote, there is no way this play would know this without being a DB or safety.

[I]Scapegoat No. 3: Rogers. He's the cornerback that was left on an island on the go-ahead touchdown Sunday against Tampa Bay's Joey Galloway. Williams blitzed and missed, costing the team the score. Afterward, Williams took public blame for the call, a rarity, but a Redskins player said, "No, he didn't. In meetings, Carlos still heard about it."[/I][/quote]

Right. Players talk amongst themselves, though. Any Defensive and Offensive player can get together for Madden 2007 Marathon and start talking all night about all the bullshit on both sides of the ball. What one guy hears can easily be relayed to another through the grapevine. Not to mention if it were an offensive player he doesn't have [B][I]as much[/I][/B] to worry about if it gets out that he was the one talking.

I'm fairly convinced it is a defensive player but it won't shock me to find that these are the whispers of a disgruntled offensive player.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;250553]Right. Players talk amongst themselves, though. Any Defensive and Offensive player can get together for Madden 2007 Marathon and start talking all night about all the bullshit on both sides of the ball. What one guy hears can easily be relayed to another through the grapevine. Not to mention if it were an offensive player he doesn't have [B][I]as much[/I][/B] to worry about if it gets out that he was the one talking.

I'm fairly convinced it is a defensive player but it won't shock me to find that these are the whispers of a disgruntled offensive player.[/quote]

Fair enough, I just feel that the chances of someone calling out the other side of the ball, which they dont even represent would almost be arrogent. I dont think that would happen, but I guess it is a slight possibility.


Some people mentioned it could be people like Wright, but those guys are a bunch of Scrubs IMO, and they have no credibility whatsoever. I think they know this, and would not call out the team from their position.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

The best assumption so far is that we may never find out who it was. Really all that matters is what's to become of it if anything? It's time to take a look at the basic preimse of marginal cost versus marginal benefit. Is keeping Williams better for the organization due to how much we have invested in his contract or should he be dismissed in order to bring in a defensive coordinator that can command the respect of his team as well as staff?

Five bucks says Pastabelly is somewhere deep within his hovel rubbing freshly printed copies of this article all over his spaghetti sauce stained torso.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;250556]The best assumption so far is that we may never find out who it was. Really all that matters is what's to become of it if anything? It's time to take a look at the basic preimse of marginal cost versus marginal benefit. Is keeping Williams better for the organization due to how much we have invested in his contract or should he be dismissed in order to bring in a defensive coordinator that can command the respect of his team as well as staff?

Five bucks says Pastabelly is somewhere deep within his hovel rubbing freshly printed copies of this article all over his spaghetti sauce stained torso.[/quote]
1)You dont think we will eventually figure out who it is, or atleast narrow it down a bit more? I personally feel we will, because I am sure a bunch of people know exactly who leaked. And that will leak to the public eventually, IMO.

2)Well the money wouldnt hurt anyone but Danny Boy, bc coaches salary does not impact the cap. So why not cut him if it is really needed? I am not really sure if it is needed at this point, but cutting him is [I]just[/I] a cool million for danny boy.

3)And lol @ the Pastabelly thing.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

I thought they said the rat played in the secondary. If not it could be Wynn, his contract is not up, but surely he wont be here next year for the four million they have to pay him to stay.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[quote=chris36;250568]I thought they said the rat played in the secondary. If not it could be Wynn, his contract is not up, but surely he wont be here next year for the four million they have to pay him to stay.[/quote]

Unlikely. Wynn is a straight company guy. I still say Andre Carter. Maybe Mike Rumph. The Brunell theory is way out there. Brunell despises the press so much he won't talk to them about himself. He would never take the time to discuss Greg Williams. You could see the disgust and impatience he feels for them in his press briefings (which if he had his way would have been a lot briefer which is to say not at all).

I have a question. Does anyone know if a sports agent out of Los Angeles named Steven Feldman represents any of the Redskins. Does anyone know where I can find out?

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

would be nice to get dwight freeny

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[quote=Redskin;250573]would be nice to get dwight freeny[/quote]

Freeney is the last thing that we need.

One, he is having a terrible year.
Two, and most importantly he is built for a dome, not the NFC East.

We don't need another undersized D-lineman. Sign two solid d-linemen instead of the big splash.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[quote=Oakland Red;250343]This article has the ring of truth. It is sterling journalism if you ask me. The morale is most likely beyond repair. This is not to say that Williams isn't capable of being a good coach. It is to say that his arrogance has been his downfall, and if we want to move forward as a team, Williams has to go.[/quote]I said a week ago that we either have to give this unit another shot with only very minor tweaking, or we have to tear it down and start from scratch.

And if the morale of the defense is at the state this article makes it out to be, I think that we need to tear this thing down and start from scratch. After all, the level of production we are getting from them could be gotten from a team full of practice squad guys, so what is there to lose.

It's quite fortunate that we will have the offense to carry us over the next few seasons as the D tries to regain respectability. If we have to tear it down, it could take awhile to rebuild.

Great find on the article, MHeisig.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;250577]Freeney is the last thing that we need.

One, he is having a terrible year.
Two, and most importantly he is built for a dome, not the NFC East.

We don't need another undersized D-lineman. Sign two solid d-linemen instead of the big splash.[/quote]
grim, your post are usually anti whatever i am thinking, but this post is right on the money. first, freeney has about 2 sacks fo the entire season. we already have enough defensive linemen that cant get to the quarterback. and his size alone should scare any team that plays on grass. freeney is built for speed, which = turf. and 2, we have enough guys getting pushed around in the run game. just say no to freeney

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

arrogance breeds ignorance and if thats the case maybe its time for GW to go.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

news stations are starting to report on this. they said that the 'speech' by joe gibbs on monday may have been to clear this up. also they said that snyder and front office knows all about it and are ready to make changes as needed.

the thng that pisses me off more than anything is the fact that they screwed up sean taylor.

GW thas got to go asap

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[QUOTE]Who are we talking about here? Smoot and Pierce left for more money, nothing to do with GW. [B]Lavar is the only one[/B] I can think of that didn't get along. Don't say Clark and Harris, they were castoffs, they didn't ask to leave. While this story is interesting we can't assume it's true or that it is Springs. So am I missing somebody?[/QUOTE]

Yes, they left for more money, but both were quoted at the time that they would have stayed with us, if the money was equal. The other offers were only about 1 to 2 million more per season, and we could have kept them. GW has too much say on personnel matters. We need a competent GM and we need Gibbs to take back control. This article makes me sick. It also explains the problems that AA, Carter, and the secondary as a whole have had this season. There has to be a reason that the defense dropped so far this year, and it's not just injuries. The problems with the coaches and players in the secondary are inexcusable and should have been rectified, like everything else this season, early on. Too many chiefs is absolutely right!

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

You have to believe that it's on the coaches when a defense drops all the way down to last in the league when they have most of the same players. The Patriots have had to endure worse problems than what we have and succeeded.

This article helps to explain, but the root of the problem has to be kind of obvious.

With that said, Greg Williams has always fielded a strong defense, and you can bet that this year will be an anomoly. As for the rest of this year, expect him to put his players in positions to test them as he evaluates his guys for next year. Plan on him being back.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

[quote]grim, your post are usually anti whatever i am thinking, but this post is right on the money. first, freeney has about 2 sacks fo the entire season. we already have enough defensive linemen that cant get to the quarterback. and his size alone should scare any team that plays on grass. freeney is built for speed, which = turf. and 2, we have enough guys getting pushed around in the run game. just say no to freeney[/quote]

While I agree we don't need Freeney. Let's not underestimate what a DE that commands double/tripple teams ALL YEAR can do for the rest of the defense.

Re: Must-Read Article on GW and the Defense
 

This is the way defense should be played. Good front four pressure and everybody starts to look better. To bad it could not have come two weeks ago. Good job GW and defense.