Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[quote=GTripp0012;273354]Good as it is, it could be bettered.

I think bringing Dockery back is the most logical way to go, but Steinbach's a better guard, and in many cases Dockery's inability to pull effectively has indicated that maybe he isn't built for our running style.

What I don't want to see happen is for us to give Steinbach a deal like we gave Archuleta or Carter this offseason. Don't inflate the signing bonus. If you are going to overpay, you might as well keep Dockery and not overpay. We have a month with Dock staying in house to get a reasonable deal done, if it can't get done in that time, better start looking to replace him.[/quote]

Sure it could be, but I don't want that at the cost of maintaining our already established precedent of overpaying as you mentioned. If Dock leaves and we bring in someone at a decent contract, then fine. I just don't see how that's going to happen. It is going to take four to five years of fiscal responsibility to right this ship as far as people coming here to get paid go.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

Steinbach will come at a higher price than Dockery.

I'd rather see us keep Dock mainly for the issue of continuity... plus he had a pretty damn good season last year.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

I personally would rather keep Doc, but not at an outrageous price. It makes sense from a continuity standpoint that we need him to stay.

A case can be made to let him walk and plug in the next guy. The Patriots live by it. We are not necessarliy the Pat's, but is that the direction we want to go?

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[quote=Hog1;273395]
A case can be made to let him walk and plug in the next guy. The Patriots live by it. We are not necessarliy the Pat's, but is that the direction we want to go?[/quote]


that only works if you have a good GM or scouting department.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;273350]But here's a scenerio, Offiss. Suppose you let D.Dock go. Okay, fine. Then you replace him with, first of all, who? And then at what price?

Let's say you get a guy comparable to Dockery in size, age, and perhaps ability. How do you determine this guys worth? Even if you bring in this guy at a cheaper price, is he really going to be that much cheaper? And was that dollar amount, maybe $1 or $2 million worth disrupting a line that is on the cusp of being dominate?[/QUOTE]

Here's the real problem which exists not only on this board but throughout the Skins organization, why is the first response to personel have to be who do we sign, or who is a free agent, or who do we trade for??????? There is a little something called the draft, some teams actually use it to build championship teams. Reason? If you have a clue on how to evaluate talent then you can find pro-bowl caliber players, or at least players who can fill a role on a championship team at very reasonable cap friendly price. Now if you can't evaluate talent then I would still suggest useing the draft because the players that you draft and sign [unless it's a top 5 pick] will not throw your salary cap out of whack, unlike free agents who demand top dollar. Yes I am sure there is absolutly no one in the draft capable of at least playing as well as Dock let alone better, not that we could find them, so we will just continue to overpay for average talent.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

to be honest is resigning doc the highest priority the skins have? to me they have overlooked the biggest hole in the organization...no gm.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[quote=That Guy;273471]that only works if you have a good GM or scouting department.[/quote]

I would agree. Hence, a case "can" be made

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[QUOTE=offiss;273492]Here's the real problem which exists not only on this board but throughout the Skins organization, why is the first response to personel have to be who do we sign, or who is a free agent, or who do we trade for??????? There is a little something called the draft, some teams actually use it to build championship teams. Reason? If you have a clue on how to evaluate talent then you can find pro-bowl caliber players, or at least players who can fill a role on a championship team at very reasonable cap friendly price. Now if you can't evaluate talent then I would still suggest useing the draft because the players that you draft and sign [unless it's a top 5 pick] will not throw your salary cap out of whack, unlike free agents who demand top dollar. Yes I am sure there is absolutly no one in the draft capable of at least playing as well as Dock let alone better, not that we could find them, so we will just continue to overpay for average talent.[/QUOTE]


And Dockery actually WAS someone who we used through this draft thing you talk about, really I am so forgien to the concept of drafting our own players too. But so why would we want to get rid of one of hte few people we actually DID draft and is one of our own. Wasent that the big problem with Smoot/Perice/Clark...ect? Plus we dont have anyone that we've actually drafted latley that could fill in. I dont know about you, but I dont know how many teams start rookies on the offensive line who werent taken in the first round, and if we have to waste our 6th pick on a freaking offensive linemen, it will speak even more to the total incompetence of this front office.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

does anyone really know what he wants?

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[quote=Gmanc711;273507]And Dockery actually WAS someone who we used through this draft thing you talk about, really I am so forgien to the concept of drafting our own players too. But so why would we want to get rid of one of hte few people we actually DID draft and is one of our own. Wasent that the big problem with Smoot/Perice/Clark...ect? Plus we dont have anyone that we've actually drafted latley that could fill in. I dont know about you, but I dont know how many teams start rookies on the offensive line who werent taken in the first round, and if we have to waste our 6th pick on a freaking offensive linemen, it will speak even more to the total incompetence of this front office.[/quote]

That's it exactly.

Dockery is a guy [B]we drafted[/B] and if this front office is serious about this core Redskin stuff then taking care of one of our own for once would be a nice step in that direction. I'd rather overpay for our own talent than someone else's.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

Here's the problem with Dockery. Yes he played great last year and was blowing people up all over the field, but why did he wait until this year to do it? Because his contract was up. He should have been playing like that from the opening bell. Instead he took it easy the first few years which is what he is most likely to do again if he is rewarded with a huge contract.

We should make an offer based on his entire career which would put him somewhere in the middle and if some other team wants to pay more which they most certainly will and he wants to go someplace where he will have to pass protect 35 times or more a game then he can leave. If he wants to stay here he will make less but he gets to mash people 40 times a game and pass protect maybe 20. The choice is his more than it is the Redskins. That's how I would play it.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

Dockery's greatest asset right now really is that the rest of the line and the coaches and the QB, etc are familiar with him. That's not to say you can't plug someone in there though, depending on the talent and experience of that player.

On a somewhat related note, what does anyone here know about George Foster, the Broncos OT? I heard he might be on the market this offseason

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;273532] On a somewhat related note, what does anyone here know about George Foster, the Broncos OT? I heard he might be on the market this offseason[/QUOTE]

The only thing I know about him is that he, like the other D-linemen in Denver, is well-known for his chop blocks. In fact, I think he ended some Bengal's season in 2005 with a chop block.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[quote=70Chip;273530]Here's the problem with Dockery. Yes he played great last year and was blowing people up all over the field, but why did he wait until this year to do it? Because his contract was up. He should have been playing like that from the opening bell. Instead he took it easy the first few years which is what he is most likely to do again if he is rewarded with a huge contract.[/quote]

I really disagree.

He's gotten his weight down and improved his technique and he finally blossomed. I really don't think he was just waiting for his contract year to play well.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;273563]I really disagree.

He's gotten his weight down and improved his technique and he finally blossomed. I really don't think he was just waiting for his contract year to play well.[/QUOTE]

I agree...when you watch the video of him in the years past, it wasn't that he was lazy or anything, he just was out of position or getting rushed at the line and couldn't handle it (ie: technique), he came a long way this year. Keep in mind that he was VERY green behind the ear when we drafted him, and even though he was taken high by us, several scouts said he was a work in progress and would take a couple years to blossom. They were right.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

Yeah, he's progressing as a player. It's not rare for rookies and young players to be overwhelmed and have the switch just flip for them. Contract years are ALWAYS a great motivator, but I doubt he dogged it to get a pay day, that's ridiculous.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[quote=TAFKAS;273532]On a somewhat related note, what does anyone here know about George Foster, the Broncos OT? I heard he might be on the market this offseason[/quote]First rounder in ...02 i think. Borderline bust.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[quote=offiss;273492]Here's the real problem which exists not only on this board but throughout the Skins organization, why is the first response to personel have to be who do we sign, or who is a free agent, or who do we trade for??????? There is a little something called the draft, some teams actually use it to build championship teams. Reason? If you have a clue on how to evaluate talent then you can find pro-bowl caliber players, or at least players who can fill a role on a championship team at very reasonable cap friendly price. Now if you can't evaluate talent then I would still suggest useing the draft because the players that you draft and sign [unless it's a top 5 pick] will not throw your salary cap out of whack, unlike free agents who demand top dollar. Yes I am sure there is absolutly no one in the draft capable of at least playing as well as Dock let alone better, not that we could find them, so we will just continue to overpay for average talent.[/quote]

Well, I'll be the first to admit I'm not a talent evaluator, and quite frankly I make no apologies for that. But I do know football.

As far as the Redskins not knowing anything about the draft, I'll have to somewhat disagree there too. We ended the season with 12 starters that were drafted or began their career as a Washington Redskin. That's better than the majority of the teams in the NFL. I would guess not more than two thirds of the teams in the league had that number of guys end the season who began their career with said team.

So the point about letting Dockery walk becasue he's average talent and we can somehow do better in the draft is a moot point. Especially since Dockery is homegrown.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

At it's crux, continuity should probably not be much of an issue with this Dockery situation. To keep this franchise out of the gutter, the buck has to stop here. We simply have used up all of our leisure room with the cap and with our draft picks. In many respects, it was a good effort, but the attempts to quick build a winner have failed. We are in cap hell for the 2008 and 2009 seasons. We have a chance to stop it at that. This means we can't give Dockery more than hes worth, we can't give him a seven year backloaded deal, and its HIS decision whether he wants to be a Redskin or not.

We don't need Derrick Dockery to survive, and Derrick certainly doesn't need us. But we can give him a reasonable deal to keep him here. We have to have the leverage. Theres going to be a superior guard in free agency and a guy whos a backup for us right now (Pucillo) who is capable of starting in a pinch. Derrick knows we are tight on cap space and want him back, so he can either accomidate us or hit the road.

His comments make me think he wants to be here. So his agent either makes that happen or both parties move on. No hard feelings on either side if it comes to a split.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;273644]At it's crux, continuity should probably not be much of an issue with this Dockery situation. To keep this franchise out of the gutter, the buck has to stop here. We simply have used up all of our leisure room with the cap and with our draft picks. In many respects, it was a good effort, but the attempts to quick build a winner have failed. We are in cap hell for the 2008 and 2009 seasons. We have a chance to stop it at that. This means we can't give Dockery more than hes worth, we can't give him a seven year backloaded deal, and its HIS decision whether he wants to be a Redskin or not.

We don't need Derrick Dockery to survive, and Derrick certainly doesn't need us. But we can give him a reasonable deal to keep him here. We have to have the leverage. Theres going to be a superior guard in free agency and a guy whos a backup for us right now (Pucillo) who is capable of starting in a pinch. Derrick knows we are tight on cap space and want him back, so he can either accomidate us and hit the road.

His comments make me think he wants to be here. So his agent either makes that happen or both parties move on. No hard feelings on either side if it comes to a split.[/QUOTE]


Great post. I fully agree with this. I like Dockery but he is not worth a big salary/contract. We have greater needs to be paying an average to above average player superstar money.
The Redskins really need to do a better job in the late rounds of the draft. We shoot blanks after the 2nd or third round.