Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[quote=stu_nna;287092]you must have me seriously mistaken. I've listen and read everyone's response to my view on Clinton. I've also considered could his numbers be replaced with another player. He is not a bad back, but we have a history of releasing or trading players who speak out against the machine to much. That doesn't make me insane, stupid or any other name that people can think of for lack of a better way to express themselves.
The circumstances when he says he goes to one coach for the running plays, and another for the passing plays, and airs out dirty laundry out to the public is what gets me. Not his toughness, or his numbers and production. These things have to balance out. 2+2=4, i agree, so i haven't fallen into these numbers arguements.
If 50% of the backs in this leauge can get 1000-1300 yards in a season then the bar has been raised. So have my expectations...[/quote]

Seems like you think he talks too much! Its all about his performance on the field. Not a bad back? He's a great back! Just needs to stay healthy or we're not going to be as explosive. CP is the single season rushing leader for the Washinton Redskins, all time......

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[quote=SmootSmack;287095]Then what is the argument?[/quote]
whether his offield antics, warranted keeping him around, but i gaffed with the production comment earlier....sigh

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[QUOTE=stu_nna;287099]whether his offield antics, warranted keeping him around, but i gaffed with the production comment earlier....sigh[/QUOTE]

I mean this isn't PacMan Jones we're talking about.

Tell you what listen to this interview and you'll see how yes he does express frustrations but he does defend Gibbs. And keep in mind that Gibbs is making some changes to offseason training based on what CP and others have expressed.

[url=http://www.sportstalk980.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=JohnThompson.xml]SportsTalk 980 - Washington, DC[/url]

(scroll down to the CP interview on 1-02-07)

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[QUOTE=stu_nna;287063]I had just started to argue against what he did two years ago, but alas ive changed my mind. Rather than tell me what he's done, address the points that i made. He played well in our run to the playoffs. I consent that, this is his fourth year with us and i want to see less tv and radio drama and more leadership on the field. If infighting is his thing then he'd be better served elsewhere[/QUOTE]

Well, the post that I quoted you on said you wanted more production from him.

As for his off field antics, I find them amusing. His arguments with Brandon Lloyd are apparently a microcosm of the entire locker room. From what I've read Lloyd alienated everyone down to equipment managers. As for bitching about coaching...he's gone both ways and I don't really think he says anything all that inflammatory. "I want the ball more" doesn't exactly get me too riled up...I'm sorry. As for the preseason incident, I don't want him playing in the preseason. LT doesn't, he doesn't need to. There aren't a whole lot of players who do, he got hurt cause he's a competitor who was playing hard regardless of whether it was an exhibition game or not.

Finally, you say Clinton's injuries and fumbles were a problem for you...what the hell would you call Ladell Betts. Last season was the second time in his career he's played 16 games and the first he ever saw a large amout of carries. It was also a contract year...a lot of guys step up then. He also had some HUGE fumbles last season and didn't even reach the # of TD's Clinton threw up in a lot less time. So, if you're arguing for Ladell Betts, I have to disagree with you. I also don't think you make much of a point against Portis.

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[QUOTE=stu_nna;287092]you must have me seriously mistaken. I've listen and read everyone's response to my view on Clinton. I've also considered could his numbers be replaced with another player. He is not a bad back, but we have a history of releasing or trading players who speak out against the machine to much. That doesn't make me insane, stupid or any other name that people can think of for lack of a better way to express themselves.
The circumstances when he says he goes to one coach for the running plays, and another for the passing plays, and airs out dirty laundry out to the public is what gets me. Not his toughness, or his numbers and production. These things have to balance out. 2+2=4, i agree, so i haven't fallen into these numbers arguements.
If 50% of the backs in this leauge can get 1000-1300 yards in a season then the bar has been raised. So have my expectations...[/QUOTE]

1) Let me clarify, the "stupid" and "inane" remarks were commentary on the logic and substance of the respective posts. They were [I]not[/I] an attempt to pass judgement on your intelligence or lack thereof.

2) Please tell me which players we have released or traded for "speak[ing] out against the machine too much"?

3) You have high expectations of a RB - well, other than last year, CP has consistently made or exceeded the standards you cite for an elite back (I would suggest that 50% of the backs do NOT exceed 1200 yards/year. Maybe 50% exceed 1000 yards, but 1200 is not nearly that common).

3) I just don't understand your point - CP's past production for us is not relevant, yet his past actions off the field are? Past actions that many see as taking a lead and being a voice for the players.

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

Excellent points from all. I look forward to next years rushing performance, on this one though im staying on the opposite side of the fence. anitcs > performance

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[quote=JDALY27;287082]We all have to agree that Betts running style is more Joe Gibbs than Portis. [/quote]

Why do so many people think this is the case when Gibbs doesn't even believe it? Gibbs takes over and gives up the farm to get Portis, and Betts (the tailback that "fits the system better") gets an 11 million dollar extension... And Portis will still be the unquestioned starter next season, in spite of the decent stretch of games Betts had at the end of last season, so where's the logic that Betts' style is more "Joe Gibbs"?

What exactly is Betts running style anyway? A lot of people (even analysts) like to call him a strong downhill runner, but how many strong downhill runners get tackled with one hand on their shirt tail from behind by a cornerback? The one thing that Betts has over Portis is vision and patience, which is good because he's almost completely ineffective if there isn't a gaping hole for him to run through. Betts is basically a fundementally sound tailback that hits the holes he's supposed to hit, as long as they're there. He's a fine change of pace back, and he filled in admirably for Portis last year, but he is nowhere near as talented as CP.

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw;287125]Why do so many people think this is the case when Gibbs doesn't even believe it? Gibbs takes over and gives up the farm to get Portis, and Betts (the tailback that "fits the system better") gets an 11 million dollar extension... And Portis will still be the unquestioned starter next season, in spite of the decent stretch of games Betts had at the end of last season, so where's the logic that Betts' style is more "Joe Gibbs"?

What exactly is Betts running style anyway? A lot of people (even analysts) like to call him a strong downhill runner, but how many strong downhill runners get tackled with one hand on their shirt tail from behind by a cornerback? The one thing that Betts has over Portis is vision and patience, which is good because he's almost completely ineffective if there isn't a gaping hole for him to run through. Betts is basically a fundementally sound tailback that hits the holes he's supposed to hit, as long as they're there. He's a fine change of pace back, and he filled in admirably for Portis last year, but he is nowhere near as talented as CP.[/QUOTE]


I think

a.) People tend to confuse Betts with Bettis (names sound similar but not necessarily the game)

b.) More patient than Portis is another way of saying slower than Portis

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[quote=Southpaw;287125]Why do so many people think this is the case when Gibbs doesn't even believe it? Gibbs takes over and gives up the farm to get Portis, and Betts (the tailback that "fits the system better") gets an 11 million dollar extension... And Portis will still be the unquestioned starter next season, in spite of the decent stretch of games Betts had at the end of last season, so where's the logic that Betts' style is more "Joe Gibbs"?

What exactly is Betts running style anyway? A lot of people (even analysts) like to call him a strong downhill runner, but how many strong downhill runners get tackled with one hand on their shirt tail from behind by a cornerback? The one thing that Betts has over Portis is vision and patience, which is good because he's almost completely ineffective if there isn't a gaping hole for him to run through. Betts is basically a fundementally sound tailback that hits the holes he's supposed to hit, as long as they're there. He's a fine change of pace back, and he filled in admirably for Portis last year, but he is nowhere near as talented as CP.[/quote]

If Portis gets off to a slow start he's riding the pine in 07'. Betts is not as talented but works harder and cares more! He knows that football players are not celebreties, does CP know that?

Betts is a better pass catcher out of the back-field and he returns kickoffs if you need him to, one for a touchdown last year.

Portis is explosive with his blocks and speed, just hope he holds up physically with the surgeries.

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[quote=JDALY27;287131]If Portis gets off to a slow start he's riding the pine in 07'. Betts is not as talented but works harder and cares more! He knows that football players are not celebreties, does CP know that?[/quote]

How do you know Betts works harder? And I find it hard to believe that Betts "cares more" when he fumbles in the red zone, and basically chuckles about it on the bench, while the defense tries to clean up the mess he just made.

And I don't even understand the celebrities comment. So one of the knocks on Portis is that he has a personality?

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[quote=Southpaw;287139]How do you know Betts works harder? And I find it hard to believe that Betts "cares more" when he fumbles in the red zone, and basically chuckles about it on the bench, while the defense tries to clean up the mess he just made.

And I don't even understand the celebrities comment. So one of the knocks on Portis is that he has a personality?[/quote]

Eagles game last year in Philly. Portis goes down with injury. MB finally gets pulled. Season looks lost and hopeless at best.

The offensive line and Betts totally stepped up and "played thier guts out" for a cause. Jason Campbell made strides and hope Portis is part of that this new year.

I just think he's a little too caught up in the Miami night life for my liking. Just my opinion, nothing more.

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[quote=JDALY27;287131]If Portis gets off to a slow start he's riding the pine in 07'. Betts is not as talented but works harder and cares more! He knows that football players are not celebreties, does CP know that?

Betts is a better pass catcher out of the back-field and he returns kickoffs if you need him to, one for a touchdown last year.

Portis is explosive with his blocks and speed, just hope he holds up physically with the surgeries.[/quote]


A star football payer and a celeb are one in the same. So that arguement is pretty stupid. CP has a great personality and has been great in the locker room. Betts is a good change of pace who will help keep CP rested. He's also a pretty good insurance policy if he can get rid of the fumblitis and stop injuring our O-linemen.

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

One asset the Portis brings is leadership. You need a few talkers on the team, especially when your QB is as meek as Campbell.

[I][B]Portis plays every game like it is his last[/B][/I]. Furthermore, he seems to do it compulsiveley and without judgement. That's how he got hurt last year. Other players know that better then we do and it takes the whole team up a notch. The Portis of 2006 was operating at about 2/3 capacity. I expect him to explode in 2007. I don't do F.F., but those of you who do should start figuring out how to get Portis right now. If they didn't have Betts to rest him he would get 2000+ yards.

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[quote=DGreene28;287155]A star football payer and a celeb are one in the same. So that arguement is pretty stupid.

um.......ok.

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[quote=stu_nna;287041]tough back? Please, we got ripped off by getting him, he gets paid like a top back but never produces like one. He speaks out against the team's coaching, decision making, His biggest upside is his football savy, and that's not really sayin much. This year he needs to put up some decent football numbers, and minimize the complaints, or get out of town. Maybe find a job with the NFL network or something.[/quote]


You're kidding with this post right?

1) He produced 2 seasons as a "Top back"
2) He is one of the few leaders on this team - He'll ask for the ball when the entire offense wants to run the ball more and keep things loose in locker room
3) He is one of the most talented RB's in the NFL and is just about to hit his prime

What would you deem "decent football numbers" ?

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[QUOTE=DGreene28;287171]You're kidding with this post right?

1) He produced 2 seasons as a "Top back"
2) He is one of the few leaders on this team - He'll ask for the ball when the entire offense wants to run the ball more and keep things loose in locker room
3) He is one of the most talented RB's in the NFL and is just about to hit his prime

What would you deem "decent football numbers" ?[/QUOTE]

And he's 10 times the blocker Betts is...that would lead me to believe Clinton tends to put in a little bit of work...

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[quote=JDALY27;287162][quote=DGreene28;287155]A star football payer and a celeb are one in the same. So that arguement is pretty stupid.

um.......ok.[/quote]

[B]ce·leb·ri·ty[/B]
[I][COLOR=#558811]–noun, plural [/COLOR][/I]1.a famous or well-known person. 2.fame; renown.

Peyton Manning = Celebrity
Terrell Owens = Celebrity
Clinton Portis = Celebrity

Conclusion -If you get paid money to do hungry man commercials and have fans who don't watch football then you are a celebrity

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[quote=DGreene28;287179][quote=JDALY27;287162]

[B]ce·leb·ri·ty[/B]
[I][COLOR=#558811]–noun, plural [/COLOR][/I]1.a famous or well-known person. 2.fame; renown.

Peyton Manning = Celebrity
Terrell Owens = Celebrity
Clinton Portis = Celebrity

Conclusion -If you get paid money to do hungry man commercials and have fans who don't watch football then you are a celebrity[/quote]

Do you know Peyton Manning got paid 200k to show up at a birthday party?? LOL!! What a doosh bag.

TO, did you know he actually dropped more balls than he caught while forcing a hall of fame coach into retirment. (I hate the Cowboys so I'm happy about that one).

I'd rather not compare CP to either one of those men.

But if you have to.......um.........ok.

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[QUOTE=JDALY27;287184]But if you have to.......um.........ok.[/QUOTE]

Wow...all of your responses of "um...okay" are so insightful, thank you for adding so much to the board.

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[quote=jdlea;287187]Wow...all of your responses of "um...okay" are so insightful, thank you for adding so much to the board.[/quote]

Most people who know me say I'm insightful. You're not the first. Thanks!

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[QUOTE=JDALY27;287190]Most people who know me say I'm insightful. You're not the first. Thanks![/QUOTE]

I'm not trying to say you're not, outside of those 2 posts, I would just rather see you make an attempt to prove your point or disprove the other person's.

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

Are you guys seriously saying that Portis (who owns the franchise record for yds in one season) is overpaid and doesn't produce? Are you talking about the same RB who put the team on his back (at least the offense) and led us on the 6 game winning streak in 05? The same one who injured himself in a PRESEASON game tackling a defender that was about to run a INT back for a TD?

This is ridiculous. This thread should've died 2 years ago.

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[quote=jdlea;287192]I'm not trying to say you're not, outside of those 2 posts, I would just rather see you make an attempt to prove your point or disprove the other person's.[/quote]


Good point.

When DGREEN went with "stupid" I gave him stupid.

No need for that here.

Lets just agree to disagree next time DGREEN!!

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

I can't speak for every personel guy in the league but I seriously doubt there is even one, ONE, that believes Ladell Betts is even remotely in the same league as Clinton Portis. Clinton Portis is an elite back. His numbers for his career are staggering in terms of yards while Ladell's are simply mediocre. Now I believe Ladell to be better than mediocre. His talent level exceeds that but health has betrayed him. To me even if Ladell was healthy all those years he isn't anywhere near as good as Portis.

Portis simply put has more talent as a back. He is faster, more elusive, a tougher runner(yes he is), quicker. You can say Ladell is a better receiver but all I know is that they never seem to throw Portis the ball much. I am guessing that is because he gets shadowed a lot more than Betts does therefore he is not as open. Why does he get shadowed more? Well I'd say most defensive coordinators stay awake at night trying to figure out how to keep the ball out of the hands of a guy like Portis with some open room in front of him. I know for a fact that Ladell on a swing scares me a whole hell of a lot less than does Portis.

Portis was injured last year so I am guessing people have simply forgotten how good he actually is. There are no comparisons in my opinion..

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

Let's just apply one ounce of sense to all of this. Everyone know who Joe Gibbs is? Good.

Joe Gibbs has Clinton Portis and Ladell Betts on his roster and Joe Gibbs doesn't care who hangs out in Miami or who does sideline reporting. All Joe Gibbs cares about is winning and Clinton Portis is the feature back of the Washington Redskins.

I know the offseason is boring right now and we need something to talk about but the bottom line is that Portis is the better back and barring injury he will start week one.

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

is someone actually arguing that betts is better than portis? man, it must be the offseason.

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;287206]
I know the offseason is boring right now and we need something to talk about but the bottom line is that Portis is the better back and barring injury he will start week one.[/QUOTE]

Not to mention but Portis hasn't cost us games by putting the ball on the ground either...

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[quote=Redskins8588;287341]Not to mention but Portis hasn't cost us games by putting the ball on the ground either...[/quote]

Look at the stats. Betts fumbles more than Portis.

Portis is "the guy", bottom line. This Betts vs. Portis argument is a moot point.

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;287342]Look at the stats. Betts fumbles more than Portis.

Portis is "the guy", bottom line. This Betts vs. Portis argument is a moot point.[/QUOTE]

Right, I agree with you I was just saying that Portis doesn't fumble the ball nearly as much as Betts does. I believe that if Portis didn't get hurt last year the Redskins would have ben atleast 8-8...

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[B][U][COLOR="Red"]LET THIS THREAD DIEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!![/COLOR][/U][/B]

We are not and SHOULD not trade Portis! :)

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

is there anyone around here that thinks that betts should be the starter? or is this another thread that appears every off season?

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

ramsey should be our starting running back. you heard it here first.

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

I think Larance Phillps would be a good fit at RB. Portis and Betts are over rated.

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

[quote=That Guy;287509]ramsey should be our starting running back. you heard it here first.[/quote]

No, Joe Theismann!

Re: Mort on the Portis trade rumors
 

While were at it Sammy Baugh might have a yard or two left in him.