Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[quote=dmek25;272279]i think what matty is trying to say, to use an example, is like when the swift boat repulicans denounced john keryys wartime experience. for the most part, no one in the party said a word, they just stood by silently, and took it. here was a decorated war veteran, getting dragged thru the mud, and the democrats let it happen[/quote]Bad example as they where a group of guys who where on the same boat as John Kerry who had a different view of what went on. They got bashed for trying to give their side of a story which John Kerry brought into the political race. Why do they not have a right to tell their side of the story if they were being used in a political campain?

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[quote=dmek25;272277]this is a fabricated story, along with the weapons of mass destruction, that the republicans wanted the public to believe in, so that w could invade iraq. and finish something his daddy couldnt[/quote]
So you can't find any statement where Bush linked the two thats the fabricayed story from the left. Bill Clinton, all other major nations, most of congress, UN, also said there where WMD's.

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[quote=firstdown;272280]Bad example as they where a group of guys who where on the same boat as John Kerry who had a different view of what went on. They got bashed for trying to give their side of a story which John Kerry brought into the political race. Why do they not have a right to tell their side of the story if they were being used in a political campaign?[/quote]
that ad campaign was entirely funded by the GOP. so i think this is an good example. Matty, care to give your thoughts?

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

also, we elected president that did everything BUT do his time in the armed forces. and do everything he could NOT to go to Vietnam. pretty much just like the rest of the republicans in office

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[quote=dmek25;272283]that ad campaign was entirely funded by the GOP. so i think this is an good example. Matty, care to give your thoughts?[/quote]
No your wrong it was not as you said, this was a quick thing which you can tell from reading that they where accused of this but the GOP did not fund their campain.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_Boat_Veterans_for_Truth"]Swift Vets and POWs for Truth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[quote=dmek25;272284]also, we elected president that did everything BUT do his time in the armed forces. and do everything he could NOT to go to Vietnam. pretty much just like the rest of the republicans in office[/quote]
Why was that not an issue when Bill Clinton went over seas for school and did not join any branch of any service?

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

all that link tells me is that everyone involved with the swift boats gang was neither, a. not around when Kerry earned his medals. or, b. never toured or served directly with Kerry. all and all, a bunch of fabrication. the ads were funded by a friend of bushes from Texas, whom bush was involved with in the business world. a hard core republican. the G.O.P proper didn't fund the ads, but might as well. also, the businessman involved( I'm sorry, i forget his name) was also given a job in the bush cabinet

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[quote=firstdown;272286]Why was that not an issue when Bill Clinton went over seas for school and did not join any branch of any service?[/quote]
i think anything involving Clinton, including his haircuts, was an issue with Clinton. I'm not sure why the republicans have such hatred towards this man and his family? and it started way before Lewinsky and that mess

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

Honestly unless there is a respectible Republican candidate I am voting straight Democrat. I am sick of the neo-conservative movement the Republican party is grasping onto. They are just trying to stir their base which is a tiny part of the US population and they are polarizing the rest of American along the way. I don't like Hilary, but she is the lesser of two evils.

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[quote=dmek25;272289]all that link tells me is that everyone involved with the swift boats gang was neither, a. not around when Kerry earned his medals. or, b. never toured or served directly with Kerry. all and all, a bunch of fabrication. the ads were funded by a friend of bushes from Texas, whom bush was involved with in the business world. a hard core republican. the G.O.P proper didn't fund the ads, but might as well. also, the businessman involved( I'm sorry, i forget his name) was also given a job in the bush cabinet[/quote]
Its been fun but after this I'm done. You said funded by the GOP that is wrong. Yes, people who support the President would support them because I don't think Kerry supporters are going to donate to them. Just like Bush supporters don't donate to groups going after Bush that just would not make sense. They went after him just as much so not for what he did but what he said when he returned. Accusing our servicemen of all kinds of crimes and that was most of their beef with him. I'm done. So I heard that Parcells might retire you think there is any truth to that?

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;272291]...They are just trying to stir their base which is a tiny part of the US population...[/QUOTE]

The Dems ignoring this 'tiny' part of the US population for the better part of a decade is one reason why they can't win the presidency.

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[quote=cpayne5;272294]The Dems ignoring this 'tiny' part of the US population for the better part of a decade is one reason why they can't win the presidency.[/quote]

True, but unfortunately if the Dem base came out just a little bit stronger in the polls then they would dominate every election. The main problem is the minority and youth vote never comes out strong. Hopefully this election more voters will see the path our country is tumbling down and they will vote for change.

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

hey firstdown, check your pm

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;272277]this is a fabricated story, along with the weapons of mass destruction, that the republicans wanted the public to believe in, so that w could invade iraq. and finish something his daddy couldnt[/QUOTE]

Are you saying that the WMDs was made up? I think it is generally accepted that EVERYONE, including the Brits, Germans and hell even the French were SURE they had weapons. I am not saying the other stuff wasn't stretched but I am tired of hearing about the BS WMD lie. No one lied. They were just wrong.

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;272279]i think what matty is trying to say, to use an example, is like when the swift boat repulicans denounced john keryys wartime experience. for the most part, no one in the party said a word, they just stood by silently, and took it. here was a decorated war veteran, getting dragged thru the mud, and the democrats let it happen[/QUOTE]

I would argue that for every swift boat load of crap(which it was) there is a WMD lie load of crap.. Neither side gets to claim the high road.

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;272328]Are you saying that the WMDs was made up? I think it is generally accepted that EVERYONE, including the Brits, Germans and hell even the French were SURE they had weapons. I am not saying the other stuff wasn't stretched but I am tired of hearing about the BS WMD lie. No one lied. They were just wrong.[/QUOTE]


OMG, I am speechless. We have clear evidence and the whole yellow cake thing escapes your mind? The fact that the CIA had some reservations about the claim doesn't bother you? That's not wrong, that's world mass deception.

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[quote=FRPLG;272328]Are you saying that the WMDs was made up? I think it is generally accepted that EVERYONE, including the Brits, Germans and hell even the French were SURE they had weapons. I am not saying the other stuff wasn't stretched but I am tired of hearing about the BS WMD lie. No one lied. They were just wrong.[/quote]
i disagree with this, but.. it would have been a whole lot easier to swallow if bush and the boys would have come out and said this. look folks, we were wrong. never a peep, still declaring they(wmd) are in iraq, somewhere

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[quote=saden1;272333]OMG, I am speechless. We have clear evidence and the whole yellow cake thing escapes your mind? The fact that the CIA had some reservations about the claim doesn't bother you? That's not wrong, that's world mass deception.[/quote]
the thing that bothers me about this is, the CIA and the FBI existed for years and years, but never worked together? someone way back when should have handled this. they should be sharing info, and working hand and hand, to better our security

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[QUOTE=saden1;272333]OMG, I am speechless. We have clear evidence and the whole yellow cake thing escapes your mind? The fact that the CIA had some reservations about the claim doesn't bother you? That's not wrong, that's world mass deception.[/QUOTE]

The CIA had qualms about the African Uranium claims not WMDs in general. It was accepted worldwide that they had WMDs. That is the truth. You are the one forgetting. The only person saying they didn't was Hans Blix who everyone thought was a nut. Apparently we should have listened.

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;272338]the thing that bothers me about this is, the CIA and the FBI existed for years and years, but never worked together? someone way back when should have handled this. they should be sharing info, and working hand and hand, to better our security[/QUOTE]

Wow. Didn't think I'd agree with you on anything in this thread. :D

But yeah, the CIA, FBI, & NSA (among others) should have been working hand in hand all these years to protect us. Unfortunately past presidents didn't see it that way.

I don't agree with everything Louis Freeh did as Director of the FBI, but he was on the right track when he went to Clinton in the mid to late 90s to try and break down the wall of separation between the FBI and CIA. Clinton wouldn't have any of it, unfortunately. I like to think that if he knew then what he knows now he would have listened to Director Freeh.

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[quote=cpayne5;272342]Wow. Didn't think I'd agree with you on anything in this thread. :D

But yeah, the CIA, FBI, & NSA (among others) should have been working hand in hand all these years to protect us. Unfortunately past presidents didn't see it that way.

I don't agree with everything Louis Freeh did as Director of the FBI, but he was on the right track when he went to Clinton in the mid to late 90s to try and break down the wall of separation between the FBI and CIA. Clinton wouldn't have any of it, unfortunately. I like to think that if he knew then what he knows now he would have listened to Director Freeh.[/quote]
do you have any idea on why, no one wanted these govt organizations working hand in hand? it seems like that would make alot of sense

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;272356]do you have any idea on why, no one wanted these govt organizations working hand in hand? it seems like that would make alot of sense[/QUOTE]

I have stopped trying to figure out what these people do. I think the institutional rivalries are just so deep seeded and the political atmosphere in DC is so rancorous and divided that politicians don't even try to do what is right any more. They just do what is easiest. And I guess it was easiest to not do anything. I don't blame Clinton. If he couldn't navigate the political waters to make something liek that happen then no one could. I am pretty disenfrachised about our government in almost every respect.

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

BOTH parties have become more about their parties interests, and forgetting about what the PEOPLE want. and if the opposite party has an idea, it is the worst idea ever, regardless of how good it is.

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

Did you know....9 years ago today is when the Monica Lewinsky story first broke? Crazy that it's been that long ago.

Also, breaking news...Steven Spielberg, Will Smith, Tom Hanks, and Julia Roberts have all said they're throwing their support behind Obama and not Hillary. Considering the success of the candidate they threw their support behind in 2004 I'd say Hill is now a lock

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[quote=dmek25;272338]the thing that bothers me about this is, the CIA and the FBI existed for years and years, but never worked together? someone way back when should have handled this. they should be sharing info, and working hand and hand, to better our security[/quote]
Not sure of the ladies name but in the Clinton administration she made it illegal (not sure if thats the right term) to make sharing info a no no. The reason I remember this is because their was a fuss about her sitting as a member on the 9/11 commission because she would be investigating stuff she did.

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;272360]BOTH parties have become more about their parties interests, and forgetting about what the PEOPLE want. and if the opposite party has an idea, it is the worst idea ever, regardless of how good it is.[/QUOTE]

We can definitely agree on this. What a mess.

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[quote=dmek25;272360]BOTH parties have become more about their parties interests, and forgetting about what the PEOPLE want. and if the opposite party has an idea, it is the worst idea ever, regardless of how good it is.[/quote]
I'll agree with you on this.

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;272122]Please post any statement where Bush has said there was a conection between Bin Ladan and Iraq.[/QUOTE][url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50679-2004Jun17.html]Bush Defends Assertions of Iraq-Al Qaeda Relationship (washingtonpost.com)[/url]
This is from June of 2004
[QUOTE]"The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al Qaeda: because there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda," Bush said after a Cabinet meeting.[/QUOTE]

he makes a good point. My mom used to use the same "because I said so" arguement with me when i was a kid and it always worked.

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;272395][URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50679-2004Jun17.html"]Bush Defends Assertions of Iraq-Al Qaeda Relationship (washingtonpost.com)[/URL]
This is from June of 2004


he makes a good point. My mom used to use the same "because I said so" arguement with me when i was a kid and it always worked.[/quote]

Pure brilliance as usual.

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

hey grillz, thanks for the help. i knew i wasnt making it up. im really not that smart:)

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;272405]hey grillz, thanks for the help. i knew i wasnt making it up. im really not that smart:)[/QUOTE]
No problem. If you type in Bush + Iraq + al Qaeda into Google you'll get a ton of results.

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;272395][URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50679-2004Jun17.html"]Bush Defends Assertions of Iraq-Al Qaeda Relationship (washingtonpost.com)[/URL]
This is from June of 2004


he makes a good point. My mom used to use the same "because I said so" arguement with me when i was a kid and it always worked.[/quote]
What I was saying that they never said that they worked together to attack America or 9/11 but there is alot of evidence that they did infact have ties. Here is a link and strol down to the Incovenient Facts portion and see what was left out of the post article. The Post even said that they had ties and contacts but there was no evidence they worked together to attack America.

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

in that case, you can say al qaeda has ties to practically everyone. and i was under the understanding that Iraq was directly involved in 9-11. at least thats what the president wanted everyone to believe

Re: Hilary Clinton to run for President
 

[quote=dmek25;272711]in that case, you can say al qaeda has ties to practically everyone. and i was under the understanding that Iraq was directly involved in 9-11. at least thats what the president wanted everyone to believe[/quote]
Even your own source said that Bush has never made the tie that Iraq had any conections to 9/11. You need to go back and read it. Yes you could say he had ties with pratically everyone but its the training camps in Iraq and the type of ties they had. I will also say it is scetchy if Iraq just turned a blind eye to what was going on or did they actually help Al Qaeda which is what is unknown.