Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=Hog1;284802]Sooooooooo, who's at fault? We live in a country that has a health care crises. I pay $987 p/mo for my family for ...................ok coverage. A REAL KILLER.
Millions of American's go without. They become a burden for the system because they don't pay for the services they recieve. The hospitals close as a result of constant red lining? I assume the doc's have to become more creative to realize the same profits as were seen a few years ago (see more patients, with decrease in quality of care per each).

And yes Matty, the only one I can see actually benefiting in all this is the Big Bad Insurance companies. They just pass along the bad news to the insured, in ever-increasing premiums?

REALISTIC solution is?????????

Yes, Interesting thread[/quote]

Schneed is right, blame the system, not the players involved.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=FRPLG;284805]The problem we have in this country when it comes to healthcare is a desire to have the benfits of a market efficient system, but only if doesn't cost too much or deny care.

In an efficient market products and services are paid for by customers at a price they are willing to pay. If soemthing becomes too expensive then eventually some other guy or girl comes along and offers the same service for less. Thus balancing out the market.

The healthcare system doesn't work well in this way since there are so many barriers to entry and nobody wants to see other suffer because of market economics.

The problem is that as soon as we make it less market effiicient that motivation for smart people and innovative companies to get involved, the ones who would provide the best care and medicine, becomes too low.

It is a hard question.

I am wondering if maybe as a society we need to adjust our views and desires for the healthcare system since there in't a system that will meet all of our needs. There just isn't.[/quote]

Good point on the market efficiency. If you're talking about cars or widgets or whatever, there comes a price point where the customer says you know what, that's way too high, I ain't payin it.

Trouble is nobody is going to do that with healthcare. If your father or mother or daughter or son needed surgery in a life or death situation, there's no price too high. You'd never reach a point where you'd say you know what, it's just not worth it, just euthanize my father.

That's where the adjustment in attitude is needed. People have to accept that healthcare is EXTREMELY expensive. We can argue how it should be paid for. Perhaps the government should run hospitals, but they'd have to jack taxes way up to pay for it. No matter how you cut it, that technology is damn expensive.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;284813]Good point on the market efficiency. If you're talking about cars or widgets or whatever, there comes a price point where the customer says you know what, that's way too high, I ain't payin it.

Trouble is nobody is going to do that with healthcare. If your father or mother or daughter or son needed surgery in a life or death situation, there's no price too high. You'd never reach a point where you'd say you know what, it's just not worth it, just euthanize my father.

That's where the adjustment in attitude is needed. People have to accept that healthcare is EXTREMELY expensive. We can argue how it should be paid for. Perhaps the government should run hospitals, but they'd have to jack taxes way up to pay for it. No matter how you cut it, that technology is damn expensive.[/QUOTE]
Yup.

That's what I mean by changing our views. Do we as a society want the best healthcare for everyone or are we going to accept that that probably isn't a realistic idea?

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=Hog1;284802]Sooooooooo, who's at fault? We live in a country that has a health care crises. I pay $987 p/mo for my family for ...................ok coverage. A REAL KILLER.
Millions of American's go without. They become a burden for the system because they don't pay for the services they recieve. The hospitals close as a result of constant red lining? I assume the doc's have to become more creative to realize the same profits as were seen a few years ago (see more patients, with decrease in quality of care per each).

And yes Matty, the only one I can see actually benefiting in all this is the Big Bad Insurance companies. They just pass along the bad news to the insured, in ever-increasing premiums?

REALISTIC solution is?????????

Yes, Interesting thread[/quote]
That seems real high too me. I'm self emp. and for my family of 4 it runs right around 525.00 through Anthen. Thats even with a daughter who rang up around 75,000 to 100,000 gand in med bills 2 years ago. She is just fine now but I thought my ins. was going to jump up in price it did some and we switched to our current carrier. Maybe its time you shop your coverage.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

Actually, I'm not blaming anyone. I simply pointed out that the insurance companies (at least initially) don't appear to be hurting from any of this. Do they not pass along their costs, and or losses to the insured?

The "technology" may be expensive, but it's far more complex than that. The Doc's to want to continue to nail down the large incomes that they spent 500k in med school to get. With the cost of their insurances being ridiculously high, they have to create more income. They see more patients with less quality for the patient. They're scared to death of getting sued, so to cover their own ass, they prescribe needless treatments (like the catch all, CAT scan) to accomplish that end, and prove they have left nothing to chance. Unfortunately, our court system has handed down ABSURD judgements in all things health related to help feed the monster, and make it attractive to continue to bring these types of lawsuits

Yes, it is a complex problem

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=firstdown;284822]That seems real high too me. I'm self emp. and for my family of 4 it runs right around 525.00 through Anthen. Thats even with a daughter who rang up around 75,000 to 100,000 gand in med bills 2 years ago. She is just fine now but I thought my ins. was going to jump up in price it did some and we switched to our current carrier. Maybe its time you shop your coverage.[/quote]

I agree, who are you with?

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

Let's not all forget that insurance companies are a business. Tbey exist to make money so of course costs get passed on to customers. Otherwise they wouldn't make money and wouldn't operate anymore. Then how would anyone afford healthcare when there are no insurance companies?

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=Hog1;284826]Actually, I'm not blaming anyone. I simply pointed out that the insurance companies (at least initially) don't appear to be hurting from any of this. Do they not pass along their costs, and or losses to the insured?[/quote]

A lot of the costs they have to pass on is due to insurance fraud which is a bigger problem that most people realize.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=FRPLG;284833]Let's not all forget that insurance companies are a business. Tbey exist to make money so of course costs get passed on to customers. Otherwise they wouldn't make money and wouldn't operate anymore. Then how would anyone afford healthcare when there are no insurance companies?[/quote]
Soooo, actually the insurance companies are.................the GOOD guys?

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=Mattyk72;284835]A lot of the costs they have to pass on is due to insurance fraud which is a bigger problem that most people realize.[/quote]

It IS a complex issue.
It is one of the MOST F..... up things in this country today. If it can be fixed, there is fault somewhere and needs to be addressed. As it is, it is a mess. Millions of Americans do without. If it can't be fixed, let's start over. Now, back to my original premise..............

REALISTIC solution is??????????

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[QUOTE=Hog1;284842]Soooo, actually the insurance companies are.................the GOOD guys?[/QUOTE]

Why do there have to be good guys and bad guys? You think there are groups of people sitting around thinking "Hey lets stick it to our customers again!". No they are making money which is their job. Good or bad it is the way it is. Remember: money drives the whole issue both positively and negatively.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[QUOTE=Hog1;284843]It IS a complex issue.
It is one of the MOST F..... up things in this country today. If it can be fixed, there is fault somewhere and needs to be addressed. As it is, it is a mess. Millions of Americans do without. If it can't be fixed, let's start over. Now, back to my original premise..............

REALISTIC solution is??????????[/QUOTE]

I honestly don't think there is a realistic solution that can satisfy all the needs and wants of society. An adjustment of expectations is what is needed as well as changes to mee the more realistic wants.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=FRPLG;284845]Why do there have to be good guys and bad guys? You think there are groups of people sitting around thinking "Hey lets stick it to our customers again!". No they are making money which is their job. Good or bad it is the way it is. Remember: money drives the whole issue both positively and negatively.[/quote]

Honestly, I believe that with this kind of $$$ involved, and the types of profits being realized by the insurance companies, to surmise there are no bad guys reaping gigantic gains is rather naive. With money "driving the whole issue" you can.............."bank" on there being bad guys

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=FRPLG;284846]I honestly don't think there is a realistic solution that can satisfy all the needs and wants of society. An adjustment of expectations is what is needed as well as changes to mee the more realistic wants.[/quote]

Adjusment of expectations=somebody's gettin' screwed

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[QUOTE=Hog1;284848]Honestly, I believe that with this kind of $$$ involved, and the types of profits being realized by the insurance companies, to surmise there are no bad guys reaping gigantic gains is rather naive. With money "driving the whole issue" you can.............."bank" on there being bad guys[/QUOTE]

No I don't think it naive. Notice I didn't there are bad guys but rather there aren't groups of these guys meeting on Friday night to play poker and figure out other devious ways to make money. There are bad guys everywhere in all walks of life. I think I just didn't make it clear that as far as insurance companies go they aren't really the bad guys in and of themselves. They exist to make money. Nothing else. Their service is designed to make them money. Making money isn't some nice little offshoot of it.

I come from the mindset that companies are in business to operate efficiently and make money. I think this because it is the ultimate motivation for them to do a good job(not that they do but at least the environment is created so that they can). When they have the motivation taken away them they don't even have the chance to do a good job because why would they?

I don't begrudge any company from making money. As it is, to me, there's no economic system that will satify the wants and needs of everyone without flaws. I think that is the main reason that there isn't a healthcare system in the world that works 100%

As bad as our system seems to work all the state run healthcare systems around world have problems that, while different from ours, are in most cases just as serious.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[QUOTE=Hog1;284850]Adjusment of expectations=somebody's gettin' screwed[/QUOTE]

Adjusment of expectations = knowing that not everyone can have the same stuff in life. Including the same healthcare. That's sucks and yes I guess someone gets 'screwed'. But getting 'screwed' infers that everyone is entitled to the same thing. Is everyone entitled to the same healthcare?

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=FRPLG;284857]Adjusment of expectations = knowing that not everyone can have the same stuff in life. Including the same healthcare. That's sucks and yes I guess someone gets 'screwed'. But getting 'screwed' infers that everyone is entitled to the same thing. Is everyone entitled to the same healthcare?[/quote]

I think everyone should be able to get health care. The SAME health care is a different matter. You want to pay more for better, so be it. Naturally, It gets far more complex, when you factor in welfare issues, illegal immigrants, etc. Everyone gets healthcare in parts of Europe. I have no personal experience with that. The people I know that do, say it takes forever to get an appt, but everyone gets seen, and it's................maybe ok, not great.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=Hog1;284843]It IS a complex issue.
It is one of the MOST F..... up things in this country today. If it can be fixed, there is fault somewhere and needs to be addressed. As it is, it is a mess. Millions of Americans do without. If it can't be fixed, let's start over. Now, back to my original premise..............

REALISTIC solution is??????????[/quote]

Realistic solution? Who knows, I'm not sure that there really is a realistic solution that will cure all the woes of the system. It's too far gone, it would need a complete reform which in all likelihood isn't realistic.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;284855]No I don't think it naive. Notice I didn't there are bad guys but rather there aren't groups of these guys meeting on Friday night to play poker and figure out other devious ways to make money. There are bad guys everywhere in all walks of life. I think I just didn't make it clear that as far as insurance companies go they aren't really the bad guys in and of themselves. They exist to make money. Nothing else. Their service is designed to make them money. Making money isn't some nice little offshoot of it.

I come from the mindset that companies are in business to operate efficiently and make money. I think this because it is the ultimate motivation for them to do a good job(not that they do but at least the environment is created so that they can). When they have the motivation taken away them they don't even have the chance to do a good job because why would they?

I don't begrudge any company from making money. As it is, to me, there's no economic system that will satify the wants and needs of everyone without flaws. I think that is the main reason that there isn't a healthcare system in the world that works 100%

As bad as our system seems to work all the state run healthcare systems around world have problems that, while different from ours, are in most cases just as serious.[/QUOTE]

I work in the insurance regulation business and, I gotta tell ya, your right - I don't think the insurance co.'s sit around in rooms say "ah ha - we can screw those consumers (our customers) this way and that. But, I would say that insurance co.'s are VERY aware that the best business plan is to take in as much money as possible and pay out as little as possible and have considerably more resources than consumers to ensure that they can take advantage of "the system".

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=Hog1;284827]I agree, who are you with?[/quote]
I'm with Anthem but what you need is a person who only writes health ins. and let them shop prices for you. The lady I use will contact us about 1 month or so before renewal and lets us know of any changes and we can decide which policy & coverages are best for us.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;284925]I work in the insurance regulation business and, I gotta tell ya, your right - I don't think the insurance co.'s sit around in rooms say "ah ha - we can screw those consumers (our customers) this way and that. But, I would say that insurance co.'s are VERY aware that the best business plan is to take in as much money as possible and pay out as little as possible and have considerably more resources than consumers to ensure that they can take advantage of "the system".[/quote]

Personally I don't see it that way. I've been in the insurance industry for 5+ years now and as I see things, insurance companies pay when they are obligated to do so and a claim is deemed compensable. Yes they are careful and diligent when examining and adjusting claims to ensure they are paying what is due within the policy terms and limits, but that's just good business and it's not some sort of exclusive practice limited to insurance companies.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

I think you both are right and an insured should not complain when their Co. is making money that means that they can keep rates level and some may even take a rate decrease to drive more business toward them.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;284930]Personally I don't see it that way. I've been in the insurance industry for 5+ years now and as I see things, insurance companies pay when they are obligated to do so and a claim is deemed compensable. Yes they are careful and diligent when examining and adjusting claims to ensure they are paying what is due within the policy terms and limits, but that's just good business and it's not some sort of exclusive practice limited to insurance companies.[/QUOTE]

I actually agree that at the claims level, on an individual basis, yes this is pretty much true. Providing prompt service is part of being a profitable business.

With that said, however, insurance companies pay huge amounts to lobbyists who target laws beneficial to consumers that may end up costing the companies more. Likewise, when there is an ambiguity in the law, count on the company not to do what's "right" but what is cost effect from a policy (not insurance policy but policy as general practice) standpoint. The concern being that consumers do not necessarily have the economic clout to challenge the underlying legislative/policy issues and may not even have the basic knowledge that alternative applications/issues exist.

Don't get me wrong. I am not slamming companies (though there are some that truly deserved to be slammed - just like there are some consumers who game the system). Instead, I am simply pointing out that consumers and insurance companies have opposite profit motives (consumers want more for less and companies want to provide less for more) and that insurers are better equipped to marshall their considerable resources in order to protect and promote their profit motive.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;284944]I actually agree that at the claims level, on an individual basis, yes this is pretty much true. Providing prompt service is part of being a profitable business.

With that said, however, insurance companies pay huge amounts to lobbyists who target laws beneficial to consumers that may end up costing the companies more. Likewise, when there is an ambiguity in the law, count on the company not to do what's "right" but what is cost effect from a policy (not insurance policy but policy as general practice) standpoint. The concern being that consumers do not necessarily have the economic clout to challenge the underlying legislative/policy issues and may not even have the basic knowledge that alternative applications/issues exist.

Don't get me wrong. I am not slamming companies (though there are some that truly deserved to be slammed - just like there are some consumers who game the system). Instead, I am simply pointing out that consumers and insurance companies have opposite profit motives (consumers want more for less and companies want to provide less for more) and that insurers are better equipped to marshall their considerable resources in order to protect and promote their profit motive.[/quote]

I agree, thanks for the clarification. I was just too focused on your comment about them taking advantage of the system, but what you're saying here I agree with.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=FRPLG;284855]No I don't think it naive. Notice I didn't there are bad guys but rather there aren't groups of these guys meeting on Friday night to play poker and figure out other devious ways to make money. There are bad guys everywhere in all walks of life. I think I just didn't make it clear that as far as insurance companies go they aren't really the bad guys in and of themselves. They exist to make money. Nothing else. Their service is designed to make them money. Making money isn't some nice little offshoot of it.

I come from the mindset that companies are in business to operate efficiently and make money. I think this because it is the ultimate motivation for them to do a good job(not that they do but at least the environment is created so that they can). When they have the motivation taken away them they don't even have the chance to do a good job because why would they?

I don't begrudge any company from making money. As it is, to me, there's no economic system that will satify the wants and needs of everyone without flaws. I think that is the main reason that there isn't a healthcare system in the world that works 100%

As bad as our system seems to work all the state run healthcare systems around world have problems that, while different from ours, are in most cases just as serious.[/quote]

I just had lunch with my commercial insurance guy (who has done very well with it). He corrected me as I accused him, and the spawn like him of racketeering, profiteering, and wearing an earring. His contention is that the insurance co's are getting what they need to stay in the game.
Live to fight another day Matty.
Closer to the heart, he tells (which I know is true, as I am dealing with it) the insurance co's are pulling out of Florida because of the loss's and liability related to wind/flood damage. He is accustomed to ins co's beating down his door courting him to offer their product. Taking him on trips, long golf weekends, Dolphin tickets, etc. He says, that is GONE. Never hears from anyone like that. His opinion is the atty's are reaping the fruit of the land. Far be it from me to me to protect the atty's.
THEY are the BAD guy's

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

I've never denied that insurance companies are in the game to make money, of course they are. They're a business and that is the name of the game. But are they any worse than anybody else? It's my belief that they're not.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=Hog1;284968]I just had lunch with my commercial insurance guy (who has done very well with it). He corrected me as I accused him, and the spawn like him of racketeering, profiteering, and wearing an earring. His contention is that the insurance co's are getting what they need to stay in the game.
Live to fight another day Matty.
Closer to the heart, he tells (which I know is true, as I am dealing with it) the insurance co's are pulling out of Florida because of the loss's and liability related to wind/flood damage. He is accustomed to ins co's beating down his door courting him to offer their product. Taking him on trips, long golf weekends, Dolphin tickets, etc. He says, that is GONE. Never hears from anyone like that. His opinion is the atty's are reaping the fruit of the land. Far be it from me to me to protect the atty's.
THEY are the BAD guy's[/quote]
I've been in the business for over 20 yrs. and I have never had an ins. co. courting me to sell their products. I did have one take me to lunch but these trips and football tickets you talk of I have never seen this. I have seen the agencies courting the ins. co. to let them sell their products. The problem in Fl. is not the atty's its the premium v/s the risk that ins. co. are getting away from. A large Ins. Co. has to write at a good profitt for 15 to 20 years just to break even from one hurricane. They cannot charge enough premium to make up for the risk in FL and on top of that they are expecting an increase in hurricans in the years to come.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

And I never suggested that they should not make money. I own my own business, and have for many years. I am quite familiar with the concept of making money. There are large groups of people getting fat on the backs of the American public in the insurance business. To think otherwise is....silly. Basically, the people that cannot afford to, are footing the bill. In many ways, your held hostage. Have to have it, but cannot afford to. I do not agree with that concept. Who's diriving the problem? There is plenty of blame to go around.
I look at it similar to the Federal Government. Like a juggernaut, one that continues to spiral out of control. Giving lip service to the public in place of services, you would expect.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;284989]I've never denied that insurance companies are in the game to make money, of course they are. They're a business and that is the name of the game. But are they any worse than anybody else? It's my belief that they're not.[/QUOTE]

And I'd totally agree.

In a captalistic economy the name of the game is profit. It is the only true driving force behind business.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=firstdown;285011]I've been in the business for over 20 yrs. and I have never had an ins. co. courting me to sell their products. I did have one take me to lunch but these trips and football tickets you talk of I have never seen this. I have seen the agencies courting the ins. co. to let them sell their products. The problem in Fl. is not the atty's its the premium v/s the risk that ins. co. are getting away from. A large Ins. Co. has to write at a good profitt for 15 to 20 years just to break even from one hurricane. They cannot charge enough premium to make up for the risk in FL and on top of that they are expecting an increase in hurricans in the years to come.[/quote]

The remaining companies are making a good run at it. State farm jacked my homeowners by 300%. I'm told that is a good deal in this market. A good deal has a different meaning in my mind. As Matty pointed out, some of this may be driven by fraudulent claims. I understand that............but I am innocent. Why am I paying for it? My original point is this, the health ins system is a BAD system. It works for those collecting the loot. Who's at fault? I don't know

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;285020]And I'd totally agree.

In a captalistic economy the name of the game is profit. It is the only true driving force behind business.[/QUOTE]

The problem in the insurance business is that standard market forces aren't always at work. The supply/demand market process assumes buyer and seller of equal resources and/or knowledge. In insurance, the sellers have huge advantages in both resources and knowledge. Even with multiple insurance companies, there are monopolistic forces at work. Given the competition between local and national companies, insurers can (and do) act in very anti-capitalistic ways (e.g. take losses in one market or policy type so that they can make it a cheaper product to undercut competition).

Insurance regulation is one of the oldest regulatory functions of government. There is a reason for that.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=Hog1;285025]The remaining companies are making a good run at it. State farm jacked my homeowners by 300%. I'm told that is a good deal in this market. A good deal has a different meaning in my mind. As Matty pointed out, some of this may be driven by fraudulent claims. I understand that............but I am innocent. Why am I paying for it? My original point is this, the health ins system is a BAD system. It works for those collecting the loot. Who's at fault? I don't know[/quote]
I'd say in FL. fraudulent claims is a small part of the problem its the exposure that is the problem. With what your paying now for Homeowners Ins. the Co. are still and will be in a negative in that area for years and years to come and thats only if FL can go without any more hurricans. Its not that your guilty or innocent you are just paying for the exposure that FL faces. If you owned an insurance co. how much would you charge for a $200,000 dollar home? If its a total loss the Ins Co. could stand to lose Dwelling Cov $200,000, contents 140,000, additional living expenses 12months maybe 4,650 per month X12= 55,800 for a total of $395,800. That does not enclude the cost to house employess etc.. to handle the claims.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=Schneed10;284813]Trouble is nobody is going to do that with healthcare. If your father or mother or daughter or son needed surgery in a life or death situation, there's no price too high. You'd never reach a point where you'd say you know what, it's just not worth it, just euthanize my father.[/quote]


that does happen in england in some cases.

i mean, yeah it's cruel, but if someone requires $200k-$1mill a day in care with a 5% of ever recovering (brain damage, full body paralysis, etc)...

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

It should be an option available here as well. Many people are forced to "live" lives where actual life has ended years ago.
Calling Dr. Kevorkian

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;285048]The problem in the insurance business is that standard market forces aren't always at work. The supply/demand market process assumes buyer and seller of equal resources and/or knowledge. In insurance, the sellers have huge advantages in both resources and knowledge. Even with multiple insurance companies, there are monopolistic forces at work. Given the competition between local and national companies, insurers can (and do) act in very anti-capitalistic ways (e.g. take losses in one market or policy type so that they can make it a cheaper product to undercut competition).

Insurance regulation is one of the oldest regulatory functions of government. There is a reason for that.[/quote]I see insurance Co. thats moving into an area that will cut their prices to pick up market share knowing that at some point that they will have to increase prices. I have seen them cut prices to pick up some of the market knowing that they will make money on other lines sold to te customer. They will also write policies in a strong market knowing that the customers may have a loss ratio higher than the premiums receivied but the INs. Co. will make money off the investment of the premiums. I have never seen them just take a loss to take market share from another co. but I guess it may happen. I just dont see why a company would want to grow off unprofitable business just to grow unless they are new to the area then that does happen.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[QUOTE=Hog1;285025]The remaining companies are making a good run at it. State farm jacked my homeowners by 300%. I'm told that is a good deal in this market. A good deal has a different meaning in my mind. As Matty pointed out, some of this may be driven by fraudulent claims.[B] I understand that............but I am innocent. Why am I paying for it?[/B] My original point is this, the health ins system is a BAD system. It works for those collecting the loot. Who's at fault? I don't know[/QUOTE]

<sigh> We get this one all the time. "Why are my rates going up, I've never made a claim."

Insurance 101 - You are part of a pool of insureds - that is the ONLY way anyone can afford to be insured, by pooling risk. Maybe you haven't made any claims, but people in your risk pool did and, in order to afford covering everyone in the risk pool, premiums have to increase to reflect the increased risk presented by the pool of insured.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;285370]<sigh> We get this one all the time. "Why are my rates going up, I've never made a claim."

Insurance 101 - You are part of a pool of insureds - that is the ONLY way anyone can afford to be insured, by pooling risk. Maybe you haven't made any claims, but people in your risk pool did and, in order to afford covering everyone in the risk pool, premiums have to increase to reflect the increased risk presented by the pool of insured.[/quote]

I prefer the "We raised your rate because we hate you" explanation.

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

A little off topic here but the best advice I think anyone can give regarding insurance is to [B]read your policy[/B]. Know [I]exactly[/I] what you're buying, ask a million questions up front if you have to. I've seen so many instances of people simply not understanding their policy and their coverage limits and they want to blame the insurance company for their own ignorance. So again, read your policy!

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

The insurance model is a simplistic model, and one easily understood. Basic Economic laws of supply, demand, and profitability fall in that category as well. To suggest that because something is legal, that it is also acceptable is incorrect.
Millions of Floridians have paid YEARS of premiums without making a claim (even though many could have). They have been rewarded with cancellation notices in the millions in this state, with NO good alternative (if any alternative) in sight. The norm seems to be a 500% increase in homeowners policies for those fortunate enough to retain one. What the insurance companies have done is........legal. That does not make it right. The action is easily understandable. The action is not easily palateable.
However, that was never my point.

My only real point is in the Health Ins market. That point is, that it is rife with ambiguity, and predatory sales techniques. Between the insurance companies, the physicians, the hospitals, etc, the truth of a matter can no longer be determined. Ask a question to all concerned, get numerous different answers. Conclusion....................it's a mess

Re: An Inconvenient Truth
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;285371]I prefer the "We raised your rate because we hate you" explanation.[/QUOTE]

Well, that is the REAL reason rates go up. The fine print on those notification letters actual says "Muhahahaaaa" but you need a magnifying glass to read it.