Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

[quote=Beemnseven;285612]OK, here's what I'm unclear on: How good is Dre Bly? Being with the Lions doesn't give him many highlight reels.

If Champ, Chris McAllister, and Nate Clements are all top-tier corners, where does Bly fit in? Can he be included in the top? Or is he like second or third?[/quote]


champ bailey- elite corner
nate clements- top-tier corner
chris mcalister- solid corner
dre bly- top tier solid corner great hands, great coverage ability, and a great ballhawk

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

Yeah, I'd put Bly up there with Shawn Springs (very good corner, but not elite). By all accounts, Bly's best attribute is his ability to thrive in man coverage (which GW uses a lot of). Moreover, I know that Bly is a ballhawk, which is something we lacked last season.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

i dont know who put the d in rogers but that was a donkey spelling. haha. anyways, carlos rogers is a joke at corner...it doesnt take corners time to learn how to play man to man. everyone says he hasnt had bad seasons, are you kidding me! this guy was the 9th pick in the freaking draft...1st corner taken that year...just give him some time to develope? is he stupid and not get that on 3rd and 2 that you cant play 10 yards off the man, its like giving the guy a first down. this comparison with dockery is a mockery folks...doc was third rounder not the 9th pick in the draft. rogers has gotten beat consistently deep throughout his two year career. with greg williams playing a lot of man coverage, he just doesnt fit in here. he really doesnt and you can hate on me all you want but good corners play right away and prove themselves right away too.......aka fred smoot, shawn springs, darrell green, champ bailey.....so on and so on...hell smoot started as a rookie and he was a second round pick. your arguments about how he will develope need to be compared to someone who was a top 10 pick and a corner and ill bet you wont find many like him......

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

[quote=Beemnseven;285612]OK, here's what I'm unclear on: How good is Dre Bly? Being with the Lions doesn't give him many highlight reels.

If Champ, Chris McAllister, and Nate Clements are all top-tier corners, where does Bly fit in? Can he be included in the top? Or is he like second or third?[/quote]

Scouts Inc. has Bly listed #14 of all the corners. To put that in perspective:

Champ is #1, Clements and McAlister tied for #2.

Springs is also tied for #14.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

by the way i am calling myself out that rogers wasnt the first corner taken.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

Well you have to consider what Denver gave up to acquire Bly, and he has not played a down for them. Denver surrendered a starting RB, a starting RT and a 5th round pick.

They are going to want some compensation for what they have surrendered.

They need a RB and a starting CB. And unless they see a way that they can get those two things, then I dont see a deal getting done.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

[quote=holcknowsbest;285638]i dont know who put the d in rogers but that was a donkey spelling. haha. anyways, carlos rogers is a joke at corner...it doesnt take corners time to learn how to play man to man. everyone says he hasnt had bad seasons, are you kidding me! this guy was the 9th pick in the freaking draft...1st corner taken that year...just give him some time to develope? is he stupid and not get that on 3rd and 2 that you cant play 10 yards off the man, its like giving the guy a first down. this comparison with dockery is a mockery folks...doc was third rounder not the 9th pick in the draft. rogers has gotten beat consistently deep throughout his two year career. with greg williams playing a lot of man coverage, he just doesnt fit in here. he really doesnt and you can hate on me all you want but good corners play right away and prove themselves right away too.......aka fred smoot, shawn springs, darrell green, champ bailey.....so on and so on...hell smoot started as a rookie and he was a second round pick. your arguments about how he will develope need to be compared to someone who was a top 10 pick and a corner and ill bet you wont find many like him......[/quote]

Rogers had a decent rookie year, came on at the end pretty well. He had a tough year in 06, I too always wondered who was responsible for the 10 yd. cushion, him or GW/coaches? The whole secondary sucked w/the exception of a few games. From the Friend article we know there were problems w/communication between coaches, safety & corners. I still think Rogers has the ability to be a top 15 corner at least. I wonder about his attitude at times, but like I said, there were big problems w/the secondary last year. Let's see how he does w/some competition for his starting job, I think he'll step up.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

charles woodson, duane starks, champ bailey, chris mcalister, dealtha oneal, nate clements, shawn springs, brian westbrook, tommy mckignt, quinten jammer, terrence newman, deangelo hall, duante robinson, pacman jones, antrell rolle, tye hill.........these guys all went in the top 10 or were the first corner taken that year. 11 of 17 of these guys are stud corners. tye hill could be thrown in there and duane starks had some damn good years with the ravens. so lets say 13 of 17, all of which started as rookies, all of which proved thier worth in a short amount of time. ill put carlos rogers in with westbrook, tommy mcknight category.....so keep backing up this guy saying he needs more time when history shows he doesnt. hes a bust just like the other guys i mentioned were......see it and dont deny it, hes a bust!!!!!!

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

freddy i hate you, but god damn it i respect you man. hahha i hope he does man but i hate the wait and see.....thats been our attitude since 1993 and it hasnt worked out for us, but i really hope it does. but rogers is no way what 13 of those 17 were or are....

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

[quote=Beemnseven;285612]OK, here's what I'm unclear on: How good is Dre Bly? Being with the Lions doesn't give him many highlight reels.

If Champ, Chris McAllister, and Nate Clements are all top-tier corners, where does Bly fit in? Can he be included in the top? Or is he like second or third?[/quote]

below them. about where springs is. less injuries, better hands, worse tackling.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

Springs hasn't been the same since T.O. burned him on the fade route for a td in Seattle. Remember, that was the "sharpie" play.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

Please enough of the Rogers Bashing already...doesn't anyone remember how Baily was constantly and i meen conastanly beaten on 8 yard hooks also remember in Bailys developmental years he had the likes of Sanders and Green helping him out Rigers had for the most part of the year Kenny Wright and Mike Rumph.

The 10 yard cussion is a scheme thing it makes the play happen more infront of the CB meaning he is less likey to get beaten deap and they can respond and move down hill to a play as the play as unfolds meaning you CB's are more veritle defenders .

You will tend to find people play more press coverage in zone schemes where the CB is not left on an island and has safety help on most plays .

Also I doubt with few exceptions any of the 11 of 17 top 10 CBs mentioned in a previous post and put them in the same defence Rogers was in and in thier second year they would have strugled.

Anyway onto the trade and does anyone think it is odd that the only person pushing this is JLC. He has been pushing this since at least sunday an now a lot of the other outlets are picking up on his story days later . He was going for the scoop that the Skins were in trade talks with the Lions and Denver and would be part of a three way trade ala Duckett after picks. Now given that did not pan out he is pedling this other rumor.

Now something may come of this and I for one hope it doesn't . Bly may be great but not signifcantly better than Smoot Springs and Rogers so if you trade for him you instantly create a log jam at CB and would have to either trade or cut Springs . If you trade Betts then you weaken the team in one place RB to stay put at another. Plus you loose out on your chance to control your own destiny come draft day and miss an impact play at possition of need on the DL. I still think trading down is a good way to go but 21 is way tooo far.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

Rogers isn't a phenom at CB but he's definitely better than PacMan (picked same time and a lot of people wanted PacMan instead). Rogers doesn't get picks but he does man cover well if he doesn't have to cover for 20 seconds while the D Line plays paddycake. He bites on the double move too much.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

i can promise you that 10 yrds off the ball is not a scheme thing.....there is no way a coach would call that unless he wanted to lose and give up the first down. 13 of those 17 produced much earlier....and champ didnt get beat deep as consistently....comparing champ and carlos is waerthless, although they were drafted at number 8 and 9 respectedly in the draft...yet another reason carlos isnt the player he should be or thought to be.....done arguing this point.....just admit it, i like him too but not letting him off the hook.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

My problem with Rogers is that he plays that far off and still manages to get beat deep. I wish he would just play tight and jam guys, he's a physical tackler, he should be able to jam guys. I think he's better than he's played. I wouldn't mind him giving up 8 yard completions if it means he doesn't get beat deep.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

[QUOTE=jdlea;285729]My problem with Rogers is that he plays that far off and still manages to get beat deep. I wish he would just play tight and jam guys, he's a physical tackler, he should be able to jam guys. I think he's better than he's played. I wouldn't mind him giving up 8 yard completions if it means he doesn't get beat deep.[/QUOTE]

Yeah well there is that... :benched:

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

[quote=12thMan;285354]Who is TAFKAS??[/quote]


a long time ago he was that guy, just casually interested in the Redskins. you know the guy, who at some party 3 days after the press conference, gets told by the blondest chick that Joe Gibbs is coaching again. he used to be that guy. :) After he became a 'skinsophile, he transformed himself into a SUPERMODERATOR.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

[quote=Monksdown;285778] he used to be that guy. :) [/quote]

liar!

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

[quote=rypper11;285726]Rogers isn't a phenom at CB but he's definitely better than PacMan (picked same time and a lot of people wanted PacMan instead). Rogers doesn't get picks but he does man cover well if he doesn't have to cover for 20 seconds while the D Line plays paddycake. He bites on the double move too much.[/quote]
dude, are we watching the same thing? i definitely do not want pacman here. but, jones is 3 tmes the player rogers is.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

[quote=dmek25;285834]dude, are we watching the same thing? i definitely do not want pacman here. but, jones is 3 tmes the player rogers is.[/quote]

yeah, jones off field stuff is the kind that gets you out of the league, but on field, he can really play, and he's a good return guy too.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

Give Rogers one or two more years to prove himself and to grow up and get a little pass rush help, then we can be criticalon him for his short comings.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

Or he could be the next Duane Starks.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

In his first comment about the speculation that Dré Bly wants out of Denver, agent Kennard McGuire made a statement in an attempt to douse the rumor. "I have had nothing but positive dialogue with (Broncos coach) Mike Shanahan and (general manager) Ted Sundquist about Dré," McGuire said. "Dré understands that it is a compliment to be wanted. Neither Dré nor myself has said publicly that he is disenchanted. I understand why certain teams only allow the head coach to speak publicly. If Dré is so miserable or unhappy, it hasn't been publicly said by Dre or myself."

[url=http://www.benmaller.com/nfl_rumors_notes#135774]FOXSports.com - Ben Maller[/url]

So what is the truth here? Does Bly want out of Denver or not? Or is his agent just trying to make things look as if everything is just fine so that the Redskins wont have much leverage power for a trade?

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

[quote=Redskins8588;286198]In his first comment about the speculation that Dré Bly wants out of Denver, agent Kennard McGuire made a statement in an attempt to douse the rumor. "I have had nothing but positive dialogue with (Broncos coach) Mike Shanahan and (general manager) Ted Sundquist about Dré," McGuire said. "Dré understands that it is a compliment to be wanted. Neither Dré nor myself has said publicly that he is disenchanted. I understand why certain teams only allow the head coach to speak publicly. If Dré is so miserable or unhappy, it hasn't been publicly said by Dre or myself."

[URL="http://www.benmaller.com/nfl_rumors_notes#135774"]FOXSports.com - Ben Maller[/URL]

So what is the truth here? Does Bly want out of Denver or not? Or is his agent just trying to make things look as if everything is just fine so that the Redskins wont have much leverage power for a trade?[/quote]

i don't think you can ever trust the word of an agent about anything related to their clients. Stating you're not happy with anything is generally considered to hurt marketability and value, so i think he's just covering his bases and profit margins.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

[quote=dmek25;285834]dude, are we watching the same thing? i definitely do not want pacman here. but, jones is 3 tmes the player rogers is.[/quote]


yeah pacman is way better than rogers right now but give rogers one more year if he doesnt break through than we have another problem to fix cause it is shocking how rogers is 10 yards off and still manages to get beat deep that is just wierd to me it questions his speed but he reportedly ran a 4.35 at his combine so why does he get beat deep his game speed isnt fast enough and he doesnt react enough

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;286228]yeah pacman is way better than rogers right now but give rogers one more year if he doesnt break through than we have another problem to fix cause it is shocking how rogers is 10 yards off and still manages to get beat deep that is just wierd to me it questions his speed but he reportedly ran a 4.35 at his combine so why does he get beat deep his game speed isnt fast enough and he doesnt react enough[/quote]

rodger's combine speed was 4.44. his 3cone was pretty good.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

[quote=That Guy;286264]rodger's combine speed was 4.44. his 3cone was pretty good.[/quote]

that is still not slow so y does he get beat deep

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

Really, beyond the Minnesota game, when did he get burnt deep? When you look at GW's system, you might want to put some blame on Sean Taylor or Vernon Fox.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;286385]Really, beyond the Minnesota game, when did he get burnt deep? When you look at GW's system, you might want to put some blame on Sean Taylor or Vernon Fox.[/quote]


carlos got beat in several games dallas twice owens just dropped the ball and ST has better cover skills than rogers

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

The zone they run, actually it's Taylor's fault. They rarely let Carlos or any corner for that matter run man-to-man throughout the entire season. Blame can be put on the entire secondary. When they DID run man-to-man, more often than not, Carlos totally shut down the other team's number one receiver.

And on a random note, we signed THIS guy:
[IMG]http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/34/342637m.jpg[/IMG]

He looks like someone Chris Hanson knows.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;286388]The zone they run, actually it's Taylor's fault. They rarely let Carlos or any corner for that matter run man-to-man throughout the entire season. Blame can be put on the entire secondary. When they DID run man-to-man, more often than not, Carlos totally shut down the other team's number one receiver.

And on a random note, we signed THIS guy:
[IMG]http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/34/342637m.jpg[/IMG]

He looks like someone Chris Hanson knows.[/quote]


This is tacklyguy4you and he's been having a chat with one of our decoys. Not too long into the chat he let's us know just what he's here about...

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;286388] When they DID run man-to-man, more often than not, Carlos totally shut down the other team's number one receiver.
[/quote]

that's REALLY stretching it.

part of his deep issues are because he tries to look at a receivers eyes to cue his jump instead of actually looking for the ball... that also leads to more PI calls as well.

Re: 3/6/07 WP's JLC Rumors: Denver-Washington Trade, Bly, Okoye
 

I think that was more of a rarity than the rule, however, it was distressing to read that's how asshole Jackson is now teaching them rather than to react like the other coach did.