Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[quote=GiantsSuck703;289410]Do you think you can turn it around with one rookie?[/quote]

UN YEAH, didnt Moss do that in Minnesota........duh?,
Vince Young for Titans
Reggie Bush for Saints

i could be wrong, but i doubt it?

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[quote=100% PURE WHOOP ASS;289411]thats cause Denver is good at spotting RB talent, I cant believe all the people in here debating if CJ is going to be good, this is a cant miss, and i be damn if the Buc's will let us get a player that could torch there ass this year in a reg. season game,.........PLEASE LETS NOT BE FOOLISH HERE! CJ is pro ready, and he will open up so many opportunities for JC and the Al Saunders Offense, remember before the Colts won the SuperBowl they were a great offensive, before the Defensive became solid, but they were always in the run for the playoffs, if we dont get him.........this will be a sad day in Draft history!!!![/quote]

anquan boldin put up 1500 yards on his nearly vet min contract as a rookie, yet he couldn't get the cards into the playoffs. CJ is amazing, but you need a team, and the DL is still (as of now) a steaming turd pile.

reggie bush helped NO, but colston and brees made a bigger difference.. but you see, that's not one player, it's 3 (all studs) plus getting deuce back and playing a lot better defense that got them to the post season.

If CJ falls, it we sign ian scott, or if a post june 1 starting DE fall out of the sky, we might have options. right now we just need to wait and see what trades and players are available at pick #6 on draft day.

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[url=http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm]ProFootballTalk.com -- The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet[/url]

If the Raiders trade Randy Moss to the Packers for Aaron Rodgers, then I would expect the Raiders to draft Calvin Johnson with the first pick.
[LEFT][B][FONT=Georgia][SIZE=3]
[/SIZE][/FONT][/B][B]"[/B][FONT=Georgia][SIZE=3]We're heard from too many people that Rodgers was included in trade talks. Mike Felger of the [I]Boston Herald [/I]reported on Thursday that a deal involving the two players was imminent." ......
[/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT]
[LEFT][FONT=Georgia][SIZE=3]"As we've been told, quarterback Brett Favre is pushing hard for the Packers to get Moss. "

[/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT]

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

nice to know favre doesn't care much for rodgers, being so eager to write him a ticket out of town.

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[quote=GiantsSuck703;289410]Do you think you can turn it around with one rookie?[/quote]


Is that what I said....No! That was not the response! BAD ASSUMPTION?
By the way what would CJ be one rookie, unproven at this level.
We are building a defense, which is exactly what we need to be doing.
Which translates to more draft picks. NOT LESS

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[quote]Do you think you can turn around a 31st ranked D with FLETCH? Or even Fletch/ Smoot? Come on, that's just crazy[/quote]

When you can explain to me what we lost on our defense to make it drop that low, I'll explain how we can rebound with those two players.

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

Who is to say that to trade up we wouldn't give whoever this years first, next years first and third? I think it is a bad idea. We have to many needs for young talrnt.

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[quote=100% PURE WHOOP ASS;289413]UN YEAH, didnt Moss do that in Minnesota........duh?,
Vince Young for Titans
Reggie Bush for Saints

i could be wrong, but i doubt it?[/quote]

Actually, Randall Cunningham,Chris Carter and Robert Smith and there beastly offensive line had alot to do with that.

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[quote=Daseal;289437]When you can explain to me what we lost on our defense to make it drop that low, I'll explain how we can rebound with those two players.[/quote]To the best of my knowledge, our defensive regression was due to a line wide complete regression, Sean Taylor playing undisiplined the entire year, and a group of LBs that forgot how to cover between 2005 and 2006. So the solution would be to upgrade the cover skills of the LBs (done w/Fletcher plus Marshall's move), teach Sean Taylor how to play with discipline and not bite hard on backfield action (might be easy, could be impossible), and upgrade at least 3 defensive line spots with 1st round caliber talent (this will take a few years).

We will improve from our 32 defensive ranking next year, but we will still be pretty bad.

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[quote=That Guy;289414]anquan boldin put up 1500 yards on his nearly vet min contract as a rookie, yet he couldn't get the cards into the playoffs. CJ is amazing, but you need a team, and the DL is still (as of now) a steaming turd pile.

reggie bush helped NO, but colston and brees made a bigger difference.. but you see, that's not one player, it's 3 (all studs) plus getting deuce back and playing a lot better defense that got them to the post season.

If CJ falls, it we sign ian scott, or if a post june 1 starting DE fall out of the sky, we might have options. right now we just need to wait and see what trades and players are available at pick #6 on draft day.[/quote]


Yeah, but that is the Cardinals though

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[quote=100% PURE WHOOP ASS;289413]UN YEAH, didnt Moss do that in Minnesota........duh?,
Vince Young for Titans
Reggie Bush for Saints

i could be wrong, but i doubt it?[/quote]


Drew Brees buddy, Reggie Bush had a little to do with there turn around this year, Deuce Mcallister is a much better pure RB than Reggie Bush and had much more to do with the turn around.

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[quote=Daseal;289437]When you can explain to me what we lost on our defense to make it drop that low, I'll explain how we can rebound with those two players.[/quote]\

First of all I agree Fletch/ Smoot will help as stated. Need More than that.
The rest is pretty easy, were where you last year?
I'll start with CB, non existent, then move right to the linebackers....excluding Marcus, then even further to the front D line, DE/DT. Did I leave anything out?? I guess I could have just simply put the entire Defense?

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan_nn;289397]Just because "another" reporter like Michael Smith says the SKINS are the BEST fit.....it must be so?

These are just reporters like the ones at PFT, etc., just an opinion.
I'd like to see us get a great potential WR, but I think our NEEDS are very different. I quess we'll know more next month......after about 5 thousand different reporters give us 5 thousand different reports of who we will be drafting.[/QUOTE]I was just kidding, these reporters are just jumping from possibility to possibility just like we are.

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;289446]\

Thats pretty easy, were where you last year?
I'll start with CB, non existent, then move right to the linebackers....excluding Marcus, then even further to the front D line. Pretty much sums it up, don't think I missed to much for you.[/quote]Marcus sucked last year too.

We really need him to rebound more than anyone else.

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

CJ is great, no question about that. And he'll probably have a great NFL career but I definitely don't want him here. I'd rather build on what we have. Think of the potentially damaging situations if he does sign:

-I imagine Moss would still be the #1 receiver but then someone, either El or Lloyd, will get bumped down most likely. If it's El you're saying that yes, you paid all that money for a punt returner basically. If it's Lloyd you're basically saying you traded away two picks and paid all that money for a young WR who you're just going to toss aside. Let the two of them develop and grow together with Jason Campbell. It takes a big person to admit his mistakes but it takes as big a person to stand by his decisions and suffer the consequences. The Redskins need to stand by their decisions on El and Lloyd at least for one more year.

-You've just given Betts a new contract with an implied promise of a more significant role in the offense, not to mention a healthy Portis is coming back in 2007. And now you're going to add CJ to the mix on offense. Someone is going to be very unhappy.

-That someone could be Chris Cooley.

If he falls to 6, fine draft him but I don't want to see him in a Redskins uniform

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

Totally agree SS. CJ might be a badass, but getting him would mean another hole on D and bumping ARE or Lloyd to the 4th WR. Between Samuels, Thomas, Moss, Portis, Betts, Cooley, ARE, and Lloyd, we have enough talent on offense to produce a solid unit. Defense, on the other hand, lacks depth, youth, and even serviceable starters at some positions.

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;289453]Marcus sucked last year too.

We really need him to rebound more than anyone else.[/QUOTE]

It wasent that one person did or didnt suck last year...we sucked as a unit. Some people couldnt make the type of plays they did the year before, because they werent getting protection on the defensive side of the football to make those plays. The Defensive line wasent getting pass rush or eating up blocks, so the line backers couldnt go free. The lack of pass rush gave quarterbacks too much time, the lack of effective blitzing by the linebackers gave the secondary too much time. The secondary getting toasted two seconds in didnt give the line enough time to get to the quarterback, it was all a conjointed effort.

I'm a big beliver that games are won and lost on the line of scrimmage and I'd desperately like to see us upgrade at defensive end before we do anything else, especially draft any WR.

I'm not even fully convinced having Calvin Johnson on our team immediatley makes us any better. Who was the last WR to make a serious (and I mean in terms of helping his team win football games) impact his rookie year. Randy Moss is the only one I can think of. JC had a hell of a year last year and didnt even have rythm or timing down with his guys. Just let things develop. Trade down, get some extra picks and lets build a little bit.

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

I think you have a reasonable viewpoint. Maybe I should be patient.

However, if we got CJ, I think we could manage the fallout. With Randle El, he would be what he was in Pittsburgh - the versatile number three receiver/punt returner/team leader/passing threat. Randle El has been a great investment.

Betts is going to get a lot of carries. He is realistic that different players may get signed at other positions I am sure.

Cooley is also a realist and I think he would only be helped by CJ's signing. You can't cover Santana, Randle El, CJ and Cooley at the same time or any three of them for that matter.

As much as I think Brandon Lloyd has potential, I wonder if he would be happier on another team.


[quote=SmootSmack;289619]CJ is great, no question about that. And he'll probably have a great NFL career but I definitely don't want him here. I'd rather build on what we have. Think of the potentially damaging situations if he does sign:

-I imagine Moss would still be the #1 receiver but then someone, either El or Lloyd, will get bumped down most likely. If it's El you're saying that yes, you paid all that money for a punt returner basically. If it's Lloyd you're basically saying you traded away two picks and paid all that money for a young WR who you're just going to toss aside. Let the two of them develop and grow together with Jason Campbell. It takes a big person to admit his mistakes but it takes as big a person to stand by his decisions and suffer the consequences. The Redskins need to stand by their decisions on El and Lloyd at least for one more year.

-You've just given Betts a new contract with an implied promise of a more significant role in the offense, not to mention a healthy Portis is coming back in 2007. And now you're going to add CJ to the mix on offense. Someone is going to be very unhappy.

-That someone could be Chris Cooley.

If he falls to 6, fine draft him but I don't want to see him in a Redskins uniform[/quote]

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[QUOTE=Oakland Red;289635]I think you have a reasonable viewpoint. Maybe I should be patient.

However, if we got CJ, I think we could manage the fallout. With Randle El, he would be what he was in Pittsburgh - the versatile number three receiver/punt returner/team leader/passing threat. Randle El has been a great investment.

Betts is going to get a lot of carries. He is realistic that different players may get signed at other positions I am sure.

Cooley is also a realist and I think he would only be helped by CJ's signing. You can't cover Santana, Randle El, CJ and Cooley at the same time or any three of them for that matter.

As much as I think Brandon Lloyd has potential, I wonder if he would be happier on another team.[/QUOTE]

What about the needs on defense? Our defense is so old, lacking in depth, and riddled with holes or question marks. Right now there is not a single stud on defense without some question marks besides his name. Our offense is so loaded with weapons that getting another one is simply overkill.

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;289639]What about the needs on defense? Our defense is so old, lacking in depth, and riddled with holes or question marks. Right now there is not a single stud on defense without some question marks besides his name. Our offense is so loaded with weapons that getting another one is simply overkill.[/quote]

You could be right that it would be excessive. I think the thing with CJ is that he is theoretically not just another player, but that rare person of historic ability.

I don't think that our defense is so bad off as you think. Even our defensive line has good players. I think we could use more depth on the line. We have got our new defensive qb in Fletcher. Taylor will be much improved with a settled and deeper secondary around him. I think that we have good players there. I think things will get clarified around the coaching, the system, we will hopefully have better health, and the new players we are adding (Smoot and Fletcher) will add a lot, and the younger players like Golston will have another year of experience. Carter will be much more comfortable. We will bounce back big in my opinion on defense.

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[quote=Oakland Red;289640]You could be right that it would be excessive. I think the thing with CJ is that he is theoretically not just another player, but that rare person of historic ability.

I don't think that our defense is so bad off as you think. Even our defensive line has good players. I think we could use more depth on the line. We have got our new defensive qb in Fletcher. Taylor will be much improved with a settled and deeper secondary around him. I think that we have good players there. I think things will get clarified around the coaching, the system, we will hopefully have better health, and the new players we are adding (Smoot and Fletcher) will add a lot, and the younger players like Golston will have another year of experience. Carter will be much more comfortable. We will bounce back big in my opinion on defense.[/quote]I think drafting a guy based on an assumption that he will be a historic success is ALWAYS a bad move.

If historic success is the standard we set, we will almost certainly be significantly dissapointed no matter who the player is.

Historic greatness is completely unpredictable. It's a level that Peyton Manning has reached, but there are 1600+ NFL players who aren't historically great. 1/1600 is not good odds even with a talent like Calvin Johnson.

Calvin Johnson will put together a solid career, but he might not be great or even pro bowl caliber. He's still got stuff to prove. He's not going to be at the the level of elite NFL WR upon draft day.

Another good NFL WR is nothing special. CJ has a lot to prove before I label him a special talent.

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[quote=Gmanc711;289626]
I'm not even fully convinced having Calvin Johnson on our team immediatley makes us any better. Who was the last WR to make a serious (and I mean in terms of helping his team win football games) impact his rookie year. Randy Moss is the only one I can think of. [/quote]


colston, fitzgerald, boldin, clayton (tampa bay, his 2nd season sucked though). that's without thinking too hard.

as for bumping lloyd or el to 4th WR, lloyd IS a 4th WR, so that's REALLY not a big deal.

again, i think trading up is stupid, but i saw a few comments that deserved a response.

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;289654]colston, fitzgerald, boldin, clayton (tampa bay, his 2nd season sucked though). that's without thinking too hard.

as for bumping lloyd or el to 4th WR, lloyd IS a 4th WR, so that's REALLY not a big deal.

again, i think trading up is stupid, but i saw a few comments that deserved a response.[/QUOTE]

Maybe I am wording this wrong. Larry Fitzgerald you have me on...but I mean the last Can't Miss, Must Have, Best WR ever to come in and make an impact like Moss did his first year. Boldin was a 2nd rounder, Colston was a 6th or 7th, Clatyon was high but didnt have nearly the coverage that Johnson is having. My whole point really is that these "can't miss, must have, best player ever" type draft players, ussually dont end up being the best players to come out of the draft, and I think that is why we should trade down and get more picks. I think we draft VERY well when we actually have picks, especially in the later rounds (3rd and later) the past few years.

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;289619]CJ is great, no question about that. And he'll probably have a great NFL career but I definitely don't want him here. I'd rather build on what we have. Think of the potentially damaging situations if he does sign:

-I imagine Moss would still be the #1 receiver but then someone, either El or Lloyd, will get bumped down most likely. If it's El you're saying that yes, you paid all that money for a punt returner basically. If it's Lloyd you're basically saying you traded away two picks and paid all that money for a young WR who you're just going to toss aside. Let the two of them develop and grow together with Jason Campbell. It takes a big person to admit his mistakes but it takes as big a person to stand by his decisions and suffer the consequences. The Redskins need to stand by their decisions on El and Lloyd at least for one more year.

-You've just given Betts a new contract with an implied promise of a more significant role in the offense, not to mention a healthy Portis is coming back in 2007. And now you're going to add CJ to the mix on offense. Someone is going to be very unhappy.

-That someone could be Chris Cooley.

If he falls to 6, fine draft him but I don't want to see him in a Redskins uniform[/quote]

We should toss LLoyd side. The guy pouted like a little bitch the day he got here. Basically showed up his coach on the practice field in last years mimi camps, treats people like crap, goes around and acts like his shit doesn't stink. Plus he was not productive on the field. Towards the end of the year he was the #3 WR. When has Lloyd ever been productive? All he has ever shown in his whole career is that he's a pouting loser who makes some nice one handed catches. How about move the chains and show some consistency? So yes, he should be tossed aside. He was a mistake just like AA. I would try and trade this asshole just like we did AA and turn the page.

ARE has never been anything but a #3 wr his whole year. He's never shown that he can catch 60-70 balls. Maybe he just needs the chance but so far I haven't seen it. He is a nice player, has a great attitude and is a team guy. But we do need an upgrade at the WR position.

To me, you NEVER EVER EVER draft for need. Especially when your 5-11. A truely and potentially great player like CJ is within your reach and if someone asked for a 3rd or 4th rounder in next year's draft to move up you do it. Look how Reggie Bush impacted NO's offense. Hell he impacted the whole team. Sorry but Mario Williams is not the player that Reggie Bush is. NO could have used help on defense. Especially at CB. But they drafted the best player. Simple as that.

So to me other than QB & RB all positions need to be upgraded. Remember we were 5-11 not 11-5.

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[quote=RMSkins;289052][URL="http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm"]ProFootballTalk.com -- The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet[/URL]

This is absurd, if we actually do this I am going to be very upset, and this organization deserves to have a losing season next year if this happens, but PFT is very unreliable so take this with a grain of salt.[/quote]

I would rather have Johnson than Russell. That being said, I hope this is just a rumor.

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

all this is irrevelant because this guy is like this years Reggie Bush a "No Brainer". He will be the 1st overall pick after the Raiders trade Moss to the Packers in my opinon... so chances of getting him here slim to nill

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;289718]I would rather have Johnson than Russell. That being said, I hope this is just a rumor.[/quote]

No worries Grim. Neither one of these guys are gonna land in DC.
These rumors have become STUPID!

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

These rumors are just plain dumb, and they're usually just the opinion of a random sports writer with no really insight into the situation.
I pointed out in another thread that the latest MSNBC.com Mock Draft says we are going to draft Peterson and then trade Portis for more picks. The person who wrote that has no idea what will really happen so he just randomly decided that we wouldn't draft so much for need as for 'improvement' in an area where we are already pretty secure.
I guess the only good thing that comes from these stupid opinions is that they give us a bunch of crap to talk about until the draft finally happens in a month.

Re: RUMOR: Skins looking to trade up for C.J.
 

all these so called "experts" always try to come up with a scoop, so they can say they were the one to break the story. try something new, report the facts please