Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[quote=SmootSmack;290804]So just to be clear, you think the talent is suspect or the means to acquire said talent?[/quote]

Both.

Which makes it very hard to only blame VC. Obviously, as far as the draft goes, we haven't given him much ammunition. Still, not an exemplary record by any stretch on college scouting and picking the right players in the draft. Also, I imagine that if I'm in his position I put my foot down when you are telling me about a lot of these deals involving draft picks. A stronger individual would have basically said, "if you surrender those picks for those guys, I walk."

His ability to properly scout FA players has been suspect. I am not in the JG, "Well look at Springs, Griffin and Washington I don't know where we'd be without them", camp. I think there have been many more misses than hits on that front. Although I don't believe he is the only problem, I don't think VC is part of the solution to this mess. I think getting rid of him would be addition by subtraction.

Moreover, I think we can all agree that the overall strategy of the team in terms of player aquisition needs an overhall. The good news is that there are signs of those changes this offseason. The bad news is that we are still paying for mistakes we made in the past, and we still have the same people deciding who's good and who's not.

And I don't want to be perceived as thinking that VC is the end-all-be-all and that once he is replaced by someone better and wiser we will suddenly have nothing to worry about. The issue is not only scouting but obvoiusly also has to do with what we do with said info. If I am not mistaken, Vinny's job is more to compile the reports on these guys with the help of his scouts and then let The Danny and JG do the rest, which obviously does't recommend those two highly in that regard either. Sadly, it appears that Snyder and JG are making faulty desions on top of faulty information.

My question would be this: if you are starting a new NFL franchise tomorrow and Vinny is available, do you take him?

Since the answer to that question is most likely "no", why is he still here?

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

I brought this up a few months ago but I really think we need to take a closer look at the actual scouts. Here's why. It's the scouts that are going to all the college and pro games, doing the research on these guys and compiling the information for the upper management to make their decisions; a lot of it based on the data the scouts have provided. It's like jobs a lot of us have. I mean my bosses make company decisions based on the information I and my peers provide them. When my boss, for example, goes to NASCAR to negotiate a new tv contract he goes there with the ammo I've provided him.

Now that's not to say that he, or in this case Vinny blind use the information the scouts provide. That's clearly not the case. But I think it has a bigger say in the decision making process than we may believe.

I'm not one to pimp other fan sites but this is the best thing they have ever posted

[url=http://extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95692]EXTREMESKINS.com - Final transcript of the Vinny Cerrato Chat.[/url]

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

I've never understood the structure of the scouting department and what their actual duties are. In other words, how many scouts are there total?

-- Is one scout sent out at a time to look at one game and evaluate everybody who plays in that game on both teams?

-- Do they assign scouts to various positions -- like a group of scouts looks at all the offensive linemen, another group looks at linebackers and so on.

-- Is there anything like assigning scouts to a particular region around the country? For instance, a scouting department is assigned to the southwest, the northeast, midwest, that sort of thing. Or maybe they could be devoted to college divisions and conferences like Mountain West, Pac-10, Conference USA?

With all the money Danny Warbucks has, you'd think he could flood the country with scouts -- get the best scouts money can buy. There's no salary cap with those guys, we know that.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;290832]I've never understood the structure of the scouting department and what their actual duties are. In other words, how many scouts are there total?

-- Is one scout sent out at a time to look at one game and evaluate everybody who plays in that game on both teams?

-- Do they assign scouts to various positions -- like a group of scouts looks at all the offensive linemen, another group looks at linebackers and so on.

-- Is there anything like assigning scouts to a particular region around the country? For instance, a scouting department is assigned to the southwest, the northeast, midwest, that sort of thing. Or maybe they could be devoted to college divisions and conferences like Mountain West, Pac-10, Conference USA?


With all the money Danny Warbucks has, you'd think he could flood the country with scouts -- get the best scouts money can buy. There's no salary cap with those guys, we know that.[/QUOTE]

If I remember correctly on the pro level Louis Riddick oversees the scouts. And each scout is assigned a certain number of teams whose rosters he evaluates. The college side of the scouting team is headed by Scott Campbell. This group is regionalized. So, for example, one person might scout the west coast, someone else the southeast, etc. In total I think there's something like 20 scouts.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

See, it just seems like 20 scouts in total (pro and college) wouldn't be enough. I've always thought there would be hundreds of scouts for each team -- that way, you could get a much more detailed, individualized look at players who could cover a much wider range.

Then again, the bigger an operation is, the more disorganized it can become.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;290836]See, it just seems like 20 scouts in total (pro and college) wouldn't be enough. I've always thought there would be hundreds of scouts for each team -- that way, you could get a much more detailed, individualized look at players who could cover a much wider range.

Then again, the bigger an operation is, the more disorganized it can become.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I think 20 or so is pretty standard for all teams. But I honestly don't know off the top of my head.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[quote=SmootSmack;290817]I brought this up a few months ago but I really think we need to take a closer look at the actual scouts. Here's why. It's the scouts that are going to all the college and pro games, doing the research on these guys and compiling the information for the upper management to make their decisions; a lot of it based on the data the scouts have provided. It's like jobs a lot of us have. I mean my bosses make company decisions based on the information I and my peers provide them. When my boss, for example, goes to NASCAR to negotiate a new tv contract he goes there with the ammo I've provided him.

Now that's not to say that he, or in this case Vinny blind use the information the scouts provide. That's clearly not the case. But I think it has a bigger say in the decision making process than we may believe.

I'm not one to pimp other fan sites but this is the best thing they have ever posted

[URL="http://extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95692"]EXTREMESKINS.com - Final transcript of the Vinny Cerrato Chat.[/URL][/quote]

Thanks for the link, that was indeed very informative. Obviously they are not half-assing the evaluation process. The system as a whole seems sound. Actually, I quite like the set-up, it seems hands on and fair for everyone involved. The results have obviously been lacking so there's clearly room for improvement.

Also, it looks like Vinny's job is mainly as an organizer and administrator between the scouts and the coaches. From looking at that and considering what is wrong with the team, on the surface some of the changes that should probably be made seem pretty simple.

1: We need a similar organizational method of determining the value of draft picks. We give them away, and it hurts us. Who is responsible for this and are they going to change it like I assume they are?

2: How do we establish the players "value" commiserate with his ranking? A guy might be the top rated free agent, and better than anyone we have, but there seems to be a breakdown in how much to pay those guys. Also, the fact that we are maxed out at the cap every year seems to make it impossible to cut players like AA and B Lloyd who are busts, or re-sign players like Smoot or Pierce who everyone likes. We would really have an advantage over people if we had the "cash" advantage Vinny notes, and we were well under the cap. We could absorb the cap hit of cutting players, and outbid other teams by simply "outcashing" them. We could essentially duplicate market value offers just throw in more guaranteed cash. We seem to go above market value AND outcash which helps put us in the cap bind.

I don't know if we can do this while signing expensive players every year. To me it seems like an effective method would be to do something similar to farming techniques when they let the land lie fallow every few years. Sign players you see as upgrades for two years, and then every third year you cut dead weight and sign next to no one. Or simply be more patient. Maybe you can get a better upgrade if you wait a year. In any case, the "upgrades" we make seem to not match up in terms of how much we pay the replacement against the guy he is replacing. It looks like no drastic moves will be made capwise while Gibbs is here. Let's face it, we are in "win now" mode. But if I'm Snyder, the first thing I address when Gibbs leaves is the cap. His best move might be to fire himself as chief negotiator or have more strict guidelines in place so he can't overspend needlessly.

If the cap problems we have were taken care of and a better system of putting a "value" on players was established, we would be in position to pick players based on their value and Redskins ranking combined. Which leads me to the Redskins ranking.

You have to take a long, hard look at VC and the pro and college scouts. Are we coming up with bad scouting reports? They say they are talking to everyone and their momma about these guys, watching all the tapes, etc. Why is the team seemingly lacking in depth and talent? Why do we pick so many players who bust? Don't get me wrong, we've got some horses but some of the age, lack of depth and holes that we can't fill because we have no draft picks and cap space are striking. It would seem that our team has a good deal of character and heart, but lacks talent. In our system it seems a bit hard to place blame because everyone is involved. Perhaps you should have a GM type "overseer" on these scouts who carries extra weight in the evaluation process both with the scouts and the players they are scouting. I imagine that VC is that guy. If so you would have to consider replacing him or keeping him on at an organizational capacity if you really think he has that much to offer. Either he is making bad judgements, or the scouts are. In either case, heads must roll if they can't fix it, starting with him. However, Vinny is obviously not to blame in large part for the overspending and the draft pick fiasco, but at the same time, I wonder if a stronger personality could have made a stand in some of these egregious cases and gotten better results.

Sorry this post is so damn long, but to wrap up...

I think if we take better care of our picks and spend a little more wisely, all we would have to do is make the right Redskins reports and get our guys. If that system is in place and the Vinny and the scouts don't succeed: Fire the living shit out of them!

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

I don't know why Vinny gets any criticism, he is a puppet. If the front office attitude is different this year, that means The Danny's attitude is different this year.

Hell, I can't complain about one move this offseason.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

the article with cerrato should be read by all skins fans. seems like he was being very truthful, and showed some good insight

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[quote=offiss;290734]Thats fair, but it could be a whole lot better for a lot less money that is for sure.[/quote]

True but I'd lay that at Snyder's feet, not Gibbs.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;290868]True but I'd lay that at Snyder's feet, not Gibbs.[/QUOTE]

Well it's easy to blame Snyder, but if you remember when Gibbs was hired he and Snyder were interviewed and the statement was made that all decisions were Gibbs responsibility, Gibbs has final say on all moves in every aspect of this team, all Snyder does is fit the bill for Gibbs. This is not a dictatorship like Steinbrenner, Snyder is probably the only one in the organization who is succeeding at his job and that's paying people. The only failure he may be responsible for is allowing Gibbs to maintain total control, but not even I will fault him for that, regardless of how bad Gibbs has been he's earned the right to fail, and although when it comes to personel he's lost, I understand the loyalty there, as well as with all the fans, but the fact still remains when it comes to personel he just doesn't get it.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;290812]Here's a question Sheriff: What do [I]you[/I] think Vinny's responsibilities are?[/QUOTE]

I really don't know precisely what his duties are and that is the whole point. People who have no clue who is to blame for our problems blame Vinny because he is convenient scapegoat. If people need someone to blame, I guess Vinny is a convenient and easy target.

The two biggest critcisms of the Redskins FO that I hear are "We overpay players" and "We don't value the draft and we trade too many picks away." Problem is, salary structures and trading draft picks are definately not in Vinny's area of responsibility.

Vinny could be to blame for a lot. But until someone explains to me how Vinny has made X, Y, and Z bad decisions and can verify that such decisions were actualy his (as opposed to wildly speculating), I will have no clue how people can honestly lay blame for our woes at Vinny's feet.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[quote=offiss;290889]Well it's easy to blame Snyder, but if you remember when Gibbs was hired he and Snyder were interviewed and the statement was made that all decisions were Gibbs responsibility, Gibbs has final say on all moves in every aspect of this team, all Snyder does is fit the bill for Gibbs. This is not a dictatorship like Steinbrenner, Snyder is probably the only one in the organization who is succeeding at his job and that's paying people. The only failure he may be responsible for is allowing Gibbs to maintain total control, but not even I will fault him for that, regardless of how bad Gibbs has been he's earned the right to fail, and although when it comes to personel he's lost, I understand the loyalty there, as well as with all the fans, but the fact still remains when it comes to personel he just doesn't get it.[/quote]

Gibbs doesn't write the checks or structure the contracts.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;290942]Gibbs doesn't write the checks or structure the contracts.[/QUOTE]

That's my point all Snyder does is what he has to to bring in the players Gibbs want's, and the fact that he over pay's a lot of these players shows his commitment to Gibbs and what he want's. He could easily say the guy want's to much money to come here but he doesn't, he shells out what he has to to see that Gibbs get's everything he believes he needs to win. I believe that to be the case, when it comes to money Snyder is no dummy, I am sure he knows he's shelling out more than he should in a lot of instances, but he believes in Gibbs and honors his commitment from the onset with him, unfortunatly Gibbs hasen't been able to utilize his financial support, and I believe part of that reason is Gibbs has been in a hurry to win since he's arrived and tried to shortcut the process of rebuilding with free agency, but that is just part of Gibbs flaws as a GM.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[quote=offiss;290971]That's my point all Snyder does is what he has to to bring in the players Gibbs want's, and the fact that he over pay's a lot of these players shows his commitment to Gibbs and what he want's. He could easily say the guy want's to much money to come here but he doesn't, he shells out what he has to to see that Gibbs get's everything he believes he needs to win. I believe that to be the case, when it comes to money Snyder is no dummy, I am sure he knows he's shelling out more than he should in a lot of instances, but he believes in Gibbs and honors his commitment from the onset with him, unfortunatly Gibbs hasen't been able to utilize his financial support, and I believe part of that reason is Gibbs has been in a hurry to win since he's arrived and tried to shortcut the process of rebuilding with free agency, but that is just part of Gibbs flaws as a GM.[/quote]I don't think you are going to get too many arguments about Gibbs the GM being not so hot to this point, but surely you've realized that he's learning from past mistakes.

I firmly believe that anyone can improve their decision-making skills regarding personel. Gibbs will learn faster than most GMs because he is not afraid to admit his mistakes.

If he stays at it, he will become one of the league's top GMs, but I get the feeling that he's going to step down after 2008.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;290998]I don't think you are going to get too many arguments about Gibbs the GM being not so hot to this point, but surely you've realized that he's learning from past mistakes.

I firmly believe that anyone can improve their decision-making skills regarding personel. Gibbs will learn faster than most GMs because he is not afraid to admit his mistakes.

If he stays at it, he will become one of the league's top GMs, but I get the feeling that he's going to step down after 2008.[/QUOTE]

Does he really learn from past mistakes?

Brunell was a big one and he's still on the team, I believe Gibbs has a very hard time swallowing his pride regardless of what he might say. He's an accomplished coach, not GM, which is what he really want's to be, it is a tough pill to swallow especially if your costing your employer 10's of millions of dollars, and that is exactly what's going on right now, Gibbs is spending mega bucks with Snyder fitting the bill. I have seen him do the same thing over and over again since the day he's arrived, overpay for mediocre talent, the fact that we haven't run amuck this year is we are not only capped out, but scared of another big name blunder, we don't know which way to turn when it comes to personel, and I see us some how, some way, screwing up this draft even with only 1 pick, stupid is as stupid does!

Kind of funny in a year when we have 1 legitamate pick we back off of free agency. I think people have the notion that drafting a D-lineman is going to cure all our ill's? Ain't happening! We have far to many holes, and no picks to fill them.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

the skins have one pick because of past dealings. they haven't traded future picks( so far) and have kept free agent signings to low key guys. it looks like someone is learning as you go. offiss, i don't know why you cant let this Marc Brunell thing go. i agree, it was a screw up. but thats old news. Brunell , to me, is an adequate back up. and doesn't make a ton of money. but as much as Gibbs was wrong about Brunell, you were about Ramsey. so lets get over it

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;290890]I really don't know precisely what his duties are and that is the whole point. People who have no clue who is to blame for our problems blame Vinny because he is convenient scapegoat. If people need someone to blame, I guess Vinny is a convenient and easy target.

The two biggest critcisms of the Redskins FO that I hear are "We overpay players" and "We don't value the draft and we trade too many picks away." Problem is, salary structures and trading draft picks are definately not in Vinny's area of responsibility.

Vinny could be to blame for a lot. But until someone explains to me how Vinny has made X, Y, and Z bad decisions and can verify that such decisions were actualy his (as opposed to wildly speculating), I will have no clue how people can honestly lay blame for our woes at Vinny's feet.[/QUOTE]

I see. So you don't know what his actual responsibilities are, yet you're certain he doesn't deserve any of the blame for the state of this franchise. And I'll bet you're not ready to lay the blame with Joe Gibbs, because, well ... that's just wrong. And all Dan Snyder does is sign the checks.

So there you go. Zero accountability. Everybody gets a pass. How convenient! Wish my job operated that way. Give a crap performance, put a crappy product on the field, and the responsible party is a mystery! A phantom if you will. And since the origin of that crappy product cannot be traced, we get the same old, same old.

It's a good thing other teams don't operate that way. The NFL would be in a sorry state if that were the case.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=offiss;291000]I think people have the notion that drafting a D-lineman is going to cure all our ill's? Ain't happening! We have far to many holes, and no picks to fill them.[/QUOTE]

I think most people understand that our defense is woefully inadequate to the point that it couldn't possibly be fixed in one offseason. I've heard that over and over.

But you have to start somewhere. It's a cliche, but football is a game that's won in the trenches. "It all starts up front," they say. They are right. Our defensive line is old and decrepit. The two starting defensive tackles cannot get penetration, they get pushed around, and they can't stay healthy. We saw that all last year. Yet somehow they're going to turn over a new leaf and get us back on track. I think that's being naive.

No one says that all our problems will be solved with one draft pick no matter where the position is. Until just last season, this defensive line has been neglected in draft after draft. Not since 1997 has a high draft pick been used on the defensive front four. That's far too long.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[quote=Mattyk72;290670]If you know anything about the man you wouldn't be questioning that at all.[/quote]


All coaches say the right things that the media or fans want to hear, just like athletes. Fact is, Gibbs can lie, or bend the truth just like anyone else. I think he has proven that the last few years. If anyone thinks the guy is HONEST ABE your kidding yourself. Players who were CORE guys, will be with the team for years to come, blah blah blah, all seem to have disapeared. he is as guilty as anyone in this league blowing smoke up peoples asses as anyone.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic;291009]All coaches say the right things that the media or fans want to hear, just like athletes. Fact is, Gibbs can lie, or bend the truth just like anyone else. I think he has proven that the last few years. If anyone thinks the guy is HONEST ABE your kidding yourself. Players who were CORE guys, will be with the team for years to come, blah blah blah, all seem to have disapeared. he is as guilty as anyone in this league blowing smoke up peoples asses as anyone.[/QUOTE]

This is still a bussiness. Gibbs makes a big effort to try and keep core guys on the team. However two things can get in the way: (1) the Salary cap/budget and (2) the value of what a player thinks he is worth in comparison to what the team feels the player is worth. The Redksins are not going to sign a core player regardless of salary.
The guard that just signd with the Bills is a perfect example. That is another Archuleta type contract, the Redskins were smart not to match.. The Bills will end up cutting him in a few years once they realize his true value, just like what happened to Smoot in Minnesota.
Smoot was not worth that Minnesota contract. Archuleta was not worth his redskins contract. It s about being smart with the Salary cap and not having to renegotiate and back loading contracts because we are right up to the Salary cap.
Regardless if the player is a church going great Redskin. Bottom line is this is a bussiness. The NFL should get rid of the salary cap. It hurts the league, the fans and the team when a team can not afford to re-sign a core player because of the cap.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

I'm not sure getting rid of the salary cap all together is a good idea. I'm not saying I have a better solution, but getting rid of the cap would bury teams like bills, packers, saints, and cards. Players have gotten too expensive to get rid of the cap now.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[quote=#56fanatic;291009]All coaches say the right things that the media or fans want to hear, just like athletes. Fact is, Gibbs can lie, or bend the truth just like anyone else. I think he has proven that the last few years. If anyone thinks the guy is HONEST ABE your kidding yourself. Players who were CORE guys, will be with the team for years to come, blah blah blah, all seem to have disapeared. he is as guilty as anyone in this league blowing smoke up peoples asses as anyone.[/quote]

That's not what the original discussion was about. The original discussion had to do with whether or not Gibbs is genuine when he sticks his neck out and is the first one to always take the blame when things are going wrong.

Of course he bends the truth or says what people want to hear regarding certain things like personnel decisions, but I have no doubt that when he says "blame me", he is 110% genuine and losing hurts him to the core.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;291004]I see. So you don't know what his actual responsibilities are, yet you're certain he doesn't deserve any of the blame for the state of this franchise. And I'll bet you're not ready to lay the blame with Joe Gibbs, because, well ... that's just wrong. And all Dan Snyder does is sign the checks.[/QUOTE]

No, I've repeatedly said that Vinny has probably made some good decisions and some bad ones. I just find it interesting that people who have no clue what the inner workings of the front office are somehow have the miraculous ability to blame Vinny for everything that goes wrong.

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;291004]So there you go. Zero accountability. Everybody gets a pass. How convenient![/QUOTE]

I don't know who is accountable for what, so I don't know how to lay blame at any particular individual's feet. I suppose if you want to randomly pick out a guy to be a scapegoat and target of all pent-up frustration with the team, Vinny is as good of a guy to blame as anyone.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

vinny c isnt the problem its that owner of ours who is like a kid in a candy store.buy something he doesnt need.AA is a good example.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

theres one thing that the snyde hasnt done and am a bit suprised about,and that is we dont have that little bitch T.O.for that i thank the SNYDE for.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;291002]the skins have one pick because of past dealings. they haven't traded future picks( so far) and have kept free agent signings to low key guys. it looks like someone is learning as you go. offiss, i don't know why you cant let this Marc Brunell thing go. i agree, it was a screw up. but thats old news. Brunell , to me, is an adequate back up. and doesn't make a ton of money. but as much as Gibbs was wrong about Brunell, you were about Ramsey. so lets get over it[/QUOTE]

I was just making a point about how Gibbs can't let go when he fails, he tries to drive a square peg through a round hole, it seems your the one that has to continually try to throw Ramsey into the mix everytime I bash Brunell to somehow lesson the blow of responsibility for Gibbs who should have been far more informed than myself on the actual talent level of Brunell, yet he wasen't. If Gibbs had his way Theisman or Riggins wouldn't have been around when he took over back in 81'. In the end I will be more right about Ramsey than Gibbs ever was about Brunell, you see Ramsey will have opportunities, Brunell? Well so long as Gibbs is coach he will have opportunity, to bad he wont do anything with it. Even if I am equally wrong about Ramsey in the end Gibbs still loses because Ramsey wasen't signed to mega million dollar contract. Just because Gibbs say's Ramsey can't play means absolutly nothing to me, after all he also felt Joey T. couldn't play, as well as thinking Brunell could, let's just say his judgement has been a little off.

I probably should have used some of the other free agent blunders to make you happy and left the 43 million dollar one out.


[QUOTE]the skins have one pick because of past dealings. they haven't traded future picks( so far) and have kept free agent signings to low key guys. it looks like someone is learning as you go [/QUOTE]


This is your case? Because we have nothing left to deal, and no money to pay anyone if we did, because of how Gibbs has run the personel dept. has nothing to do with it? And the draft is a month a way, we still have time to screw up. I do expect London Fletcher to set the world on fire though at 32 years old, it's a great move considering there are no MLB's in college football that are available in this years draft. If Gibbs truely changed his way's Fletcher wouldn't be here, but like a moth to a flame he couldn't resist, and as usual next year we will be dabating who we should get to replace Fletcher, and on it goes.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic;291009]All coaches say the right things that the media or fans want to hear, just like athletes. Fact is, Gibbs can lie, or bend the truth just like anyone else. I think he has proven that the last few years. If anyone thinks the guy is HONEST ABE your kidding yourself. Players who were CORE guys, will be with the team for years to come, blah blah blah, all seem to have disapeared. he is as guilty as anyone in this league blowing smoke up peoples asses as anyone.[/QUOTE]

You said it. Nice post and dead on.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[quote=offiss;291000]Does he really learn from past mistakes?

Brunell was a big one and he's still on the team, I believe Gibbs has a very hard time swallowing his pride regardless of what he might say. He's an accomplished coach, not GM, which is what he really want's to be, it is a tough pill to swallow especially if your costing your employer 10's of millions of dollars, and that is exactly what's going on right now, Gibbs is spending mega bucks with Snyder fitting the bill. I have seen him do the same thing over and over again since the day he's arrived, overpay for mediocre talent, the fact that we haven't run amuck this year is we are not only capped out, but scared of another big name blunder, we don't know which way to turn when it comes to personel, and I see us some how, some way, screwing up this draft even with only 1 pick, stupid is as stupid does![/quote]Cutting Brunell before this point would have been a mistake. Until Campbell does what we all expect him to do next year, puts together a good year, Brunell is still the best QB we've had since we brought him here.

I agree with you that giving a 3rd rounder for the guy was probably an instance where we jumped the gun a bit, but you have to cut it with the "Gibbs won't let go" sh-t. Gibbs won't let go, because if he did let go, we'd be letting go of our best proven QB, still a very solid backup in this league. If Brunell does his job this year, and plays well as a backup, then I would argue that the trade for him would be a success. If he can give us three years of efficient play (in four years here), even if one is as a backup, you'd have a tough time convincing me or any other reasonable fan that the trade was a mistake.

Gibbs along with Snyder (with the backing of everyone in the organization) did what any good GM would have done--they spent big bucks following a successful season. They tried to bring in talent to get over the hump and win the superbowl. You know what? They spent foolishly. They got no siginificant upgrades while locking up 40 million in guarenteed money. But that was the type of mistake I would expect them to learn from.

Can you honestly say they haven't learned? They certainly approached this offseason very conservatively. Are you telling me that this conservativeness is purely coincidental?

If you honestly think there is no hope for the organization, why do you stick with the team? I mean, changing allegiences based on who's "hot" is cowardly, but if you truely believe that this team will never be good again (a ridiculous notion), why still follow them?

[QUOTE]Kind of funny in a year when we have 1 legitamate pick we back off of free agency. I think people have the notion that drafting a D-lineman is going to cure all our ill's? Ain't happening! We have far to many holes, and no picks to fill them.[/QUOTE]I think some people do think we are one pick away from fixing the defensive line. On top of the fact that one pick won't make up for another 3 crappy players, we also as fans have to realize that we can't expect a rookie to be a savior as a rookie. He's going to have to take a year or so to learn on the job before he reaches a semblance of his potential. So in this way, I am in total agreement with you that our defense will still play poorly next year. But let me give you two reasons why EVERY Redskin fan should expect us to win more than we lose next year:

1) Offensive potential
2) Law of averages

Even with the defense struggling, the Law of averages believes that we will NOT have the 32nd ranked pass D again next year. Our production will improve simply because we can't have as much go wrong as last year.

Our offense should keep us in games. Because we will be in games, we will have a chance to beat every team on our schedule. We will take our share of losses, and unless Phili's defense blows, we probably won't catch them in the division, but in a 16 game season, strange things can happen.

I expect a 9-7 next year. I would consider anything more than that lucky, and anything less unlucky.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[quote=Defensewins;291013]This is still a bussiness. Gibbs makes a big effort to try and keep core guys on the team. However two things can get in the way: (1) the Salary cap/budget and (2) the value of what a player thinks he is worth in comparison to what the team feels the player is worth. The Redksins are not going to sign a core player regardless of salary.
The guard that just signd with the Bills is a perfect example. That is another Archuleta type contract, the Redskins were smart not to match.. The Bills will end up cutting him in a few years once they realize his true value, just like what happened to Smoot in Minnesota.
Smoot was not worth that Minnesota contract. Archuleta was not worth his redskins contract. It s about being smart with the Salary cap and not having to renegotiate and back loading contracts because we are right up to the Salary cap.
Regardless if the player is a church going great Redskin. Bottom line is this is a bussiness. The NFL should get rid of the salary cap. It hurts the league, the fans and the team when a team can not afford to re-sign a core player because of the cap.[/quote]


are we talking about the same team? the skins smart with cap contracts, not overpaying people? we have done that for 8 years. Just because we show restraint in one FA signing period doesn't knock the trend. Personally, I would rather over pay for one of our own, than to over pay for someone outside the team. Dockery being a perfect example. No he wasn't worth 49 million, but was Arch worth his contract, Randel el, Lloyd, CArter? None of them are worth that money. But for somereason we will overpay those guys and show Dock the door. They knew dock was FA a year, two years ago. The only bright spot of our team last year was the OLINE, the only true dominant aspect of this team. It should have never come down to him even being a FA. That is cap mismanagement. yes they do wonders with moving money around here and there to create space, backload contracts whatever, but you dont let a guy that young, that stong, and that good become a FA.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[quote=Mattyk72;291016]That's not what the original discussion was about. The original discussion had to do with whether or not Gibbs is genuine when he sticks his neck out and is the first one to always take the blame when things are going wrong.

Of course he bends the truth or says what people want to hear regarding certain things like personnel decisions, but I have no doubt that when he says "blame me", he is 110% genuine and losing hurts him to the core.[/quote]


I dont think anyone would dispute losing hurts him. And taking the blame, thats what a head coach is suppose to do. I dont believe I have ever heard a head coach say the OLINE coach, D-cord, owner are responsible for ANOTHER losing record.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic;291232]are we talking about the same team? the skins smart with cap contracts, not overpaying people? we have done that for 8 years. Just because we show restraint in one FA signing period doesn't knock the trend. Personally, I would rather over pay for one of our own, than to over pay for someone outside the team. Dockery being a perfect example. No he wasn't worth 49 million, but was Arch worth his contract, Randel el, Lloyd, CArter? None of them are worth that money. But for somereason we will overpay those guys and show Dock the door. They knew dock was FA a year, two years ago. The only bright spot of our team last year was the OLINE, the only true dominant aspect of this team. It should have never come down to him even being a FA. That is cap mismanagement. yes they do wonders with moving money around here and there to create space, backload contracts whatever, but you dont let a guy that young, that stong, and that good become a FA.[/QUOTE]


I agree with everything but Dock, I hope that the leopard really has changed it spots and starting with Dock, mark my words we will be better without him.