Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;296113]IMHO it is some of the players (e.g., Pacman) who are out of touch with reality. There was an ESPN article a year or two ago about how rookie seminar sessions about being tolerant of other ethnic groups, homosexuals, etc. were considered a joke. You can't honestly believe that a rookie seminar is going to make a guy like Pacman think, "Gee, no one ever told me this crime stuff is bad and I should stop hanging out with felons. By golly, I'll change my ways now." Sorry for the sarcasm, but I[I] just can't see how the Commissioner is to blame for Pacman and other players being idiots[/I]. These are grown men and should be treated as though they know the difference between right and wrong.[/quote]

Agree! You mean it's not everybody else's fault? Hard to believe.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;296023]I'll agree that marijuana laws are kinda dumb[I] to me[/I], but the fact is that they represent community standards. They can be repealed as soon as enough people apply pressure to their state legislatures to do so. Moreover, the penalties for possession of marijuana are really light and typically involve paying a relatively small fine. Almost no one does "time" for simple possession.[/QUOTE]

So whatever fits the criteria of "community standards" automatically makes common sense? Laws that don't make any sense are only sensical once the appropriate legislation is passed that repeal them?

"Community standards" at one time said people of color couldn't drink from the same water fountain. In some jurisdictions, 'community standards' say that you can't operate a business on Sunday.

I think upon further reflection, you might agree that community standards don't always equal common sense.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

By the way. Let's don't forget da bears! TANK your next in line!
Soon, as your get out of jail card arrives, the COMMISH wants to see ya! BYE

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;296120]I think upon further reflection, you might agree that community standards don't always equal common sense.[/QUOTE]

Not always, but the vast majority of the time. I didn't intend to say that the legal system is perfect, just that it is unfairly labeled as broken.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;296105]You honestly think that the rookie seminar is the magic bullet here? How naive.[/QUOTE]
My point is that with all of the off the field incidents that have happened throughout the years, the NFL should have had a strict policy from the jump, before anyone is allowed to
violate the rule and the automatic 1 year suspension should be in place if they are found guilty of a felon. The reason I say found guilty and not if they are arrested, is because most of these guys are being tried in the media instead of a court room. How can anyone be suspended for a year on accusations of being involved in a crime? The focus should be on preventative or deterent policies that are preached and enforced from the mountain top to the valley low.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

Forget about the other 9 incidents, Pacman's uncontroverted and substantiated actions at the night club in Vegas are enough to warrant a 1-year ban.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

We live in a country that has adopted an "at will employment rule," meaning employers can fire their employees for just about anything. In other words, employers can fire employees "at will." The CBA, an agreement the NFLPA signed, stipulates that the Commissioner has the authority he is currently exercising. So, to require a criminal conviction prior to the imposition of any suspension would be creating a [U]new[/U] rule.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;296141]We live in a country that has adopted an "at will employment rule," meaning employers can fire their employees for just about anything. In other words, employers can fire employees "at will." The CBA, an agreement the NFLPA signed, stipulates that the Commissioner has the authority he is currently exercising. So, to require a criminal conviction prior to the imposition of any suspension would be creating a [U]new[/U] rule.[/quote]

And there you have it, it's that simple. Hey SGG, my legal council has been pretty damn bad lately. You takin new clients? My wife also has an insurance office maybe we can get a multi line discount? Like a GOOD NEIGHBOR........ HIRED!

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote]We live in a country that has adopted an "at will employment rule,"[/quote]
Isn't it required in several states for a person to be given two weeks notice before they're let go?

I like parts of this and I don't so much like other parts. I think that being able to suspend people before the crime goes through a court of law is a huge mistake. At least wait till these guys are convicted before sitting them down. I don't want to see someone kicked off the squad for four games go to find out he had nothing to do with the situation.

That's my main gripe, and I'm not sure if anyone said this yet or not, but Pacman can reduce his punishment to ten games if he does a ton of different things. They ran through them on Sirius' afternoon blitz.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=Daseal;296146]Isn't it required in several states for a person to be given two weeks notice before they're let go?

I like parts of this and I don't so much like other parts. I think that being able to suspend people before the crime goes through a court of law is a huge mistake. At least wait till these guys are convicted before sitting them down. I don't want to see someone kicked off the squad for four games go to find out he had nothing to do with the situation.

That's my main gripe, and I'm not sure if anyone said this yet or not, but Pacman can reduce his punishment to ten games if he does a ton of different things. They ran through them on Sirius' afternoon blitz.[/quote]


I don't know about several states? But in VA your LUCKY to get a 2 second notice!

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

I think something that a lot of people are missing here is that while this may have been "Goodell's decision", there has been a lot of pressure from the players union itself for harsher punishments against repeat offenders like Pacman and Henry. You guys gotta realize, 90% of NFL players are solid, hard-working, decent, charitable individuals. That large majority doesn't want their reputations as a whole brought down by the very few who are, quite simply, too f-ing stupid to know how to behave. The players don't want the NFL to get the same kind of reputation as the NBA any more than Goodell does.

As for the legal issues, there is a collective bargaining agreement here that governs everything that the commissioner is doing. If the players union doesn't appeal, you can rest assured Goodell has not violated the terms of the CBA. If they do appeal, then maybe there is a question........but until they do, nobody on this board really has any reason to complain. The NFL and its players are free to conduct their business however they wish, and if they both want harsher penalties for illegal and idiotic behavior, then God bless 'em.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

Daseal, although there may be labor laws in some jurisdictions that provide employees who are about to be terminated with certain protections, the at will employment doctrine is pretty universal.

Skinsfan__nn, I'd love to, if you don't mind commuting to Madison, WI to meet with me or paying for me to fly to the D.C. area to meet with you. ;) In any event, I'm pretty much incompetent as I don't even get my J.D. for another 2 months. If you are actually serious about finding new legal counsel, I could definately recommend good outside counsel. My firm's (Foley and Lardner) D.C. office has a lot of really good attorneys, but they're quite expensive.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=PSUSkinsFan21;296151]You guys gotta realize, 90% of NFL players are solid, hard-working, decent, charitable individuals. [/QUOTE]

That's a good point that I frequently lose sight of.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

I think that most places can fire or suspend a person for anything the company feels is not in the best interest of the company (i.e. violating company policy). That includes having interoffice relationships (not a crime), not following safety rules (not a crime), saying "nappy headed ho" (not a crime). The NFL is a company. If the policy of the company is to require players to "avoid embarissing public behavior", then they have that right.

I'm tired of players using high-priced attorneys, paid for by the money they are paid from the NFL, to get them off of crimes any of us would get convicted for. Then to throw it back and say "but I wasn't convicted"... come on...

Kudos (with a 'K') to Goodell and the NFL.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic;296104]This is exactly why the athletes are the way they are. Or any troubles kids now. people want to point the blaim in so many different directions instead of where they belong. Pacman and Henry are adults. They know whats right and whats wrong. carrying weed, beating up strippers and shooting guns, going 100 MPH while drinking!! any adult should know those are things that will get you in trouble. I dont feel sorry or believe this blaim the environment they lived in crap. They used their athletic gifts to get out of those situations. Now, they have all the money in the world and end up making the same stupid mistakes they made before. you have all the money in the world, that doesn't give you a pass to act like the biggest dumb ass in the world. These guys should pay for their crimes. Too many athletes get off with a slap on the wrist. If pacman is convicted of all the charges from the Vegas thing, being suspended from the NFL for 1 year will look like nothing compared to the jail time he will face. People need to stop making excuses for these idiots and hold them accountable for their actions. Do you think if any of us had all these run ins with the cops we would be sitting here typing on the Warpath.net?? HELL NO! we would be in jail or where ever. At somepoint when do they get treated as a person.. a normal person like everyone else in the country.[/QUOTE]

See though, the thing is, I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished. I'm only pointing out that he never learned how to be an adult. The only thing he ever learned was that playing football well would make everything go away. Everyone has made sure this kid was gonna keep making them money while he was high school, college, any time they could. Then, you give him millions of dollars and think he will all of a sudden grow up? That'd be nice, but it's not realistic. However, I do agree, he knows the difference between right and wrong, I'm not contending that he doesn't. I'm also not, in any way, claiming he shouldn't be punished or serve whatever jail time he's sentenced to. I think the biggest problem is everyone enabling this kid his whole life, he was never provided the tools to become a functional adult, but that doesn't matter. He made his own decisions, he did what he did and now he's gotta pay the consequences. However, that doesn't mean I don't feel sorry for him.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;296152]Daseal, although there may be labor laws in some jurisdictions that provide employees who are about to be terminated with certain protections, the at will employment doctrine is pretty universal.

Skinsfan__nn, I'd love to, if you don't mind commuting to Madison, WI to meet with me or paying for me to fly to the D.C. area to meet with you. ;) In any event, I'm pretty much incompetent as I don't even get my J.D. for another 2 months. If you are actually serious about finding new legal counsel, I could definately recommend good outside counsel.[/quote]

You do make it to a game or two correct? We can work out the details.:)

Just kidin my wife has an OUTSTANDING FIRM for her office. When I do something stupid they take it on the chin for the local Redneck Redskin Fan! Nice havin friends!

Back to thread, I think the league is doing the right thing by taking a Hard Line position on these types of behaviors, which are completely unacceptable.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;296153]That's a good point that I frequently lose sight of.[/quote]

That's cause hard working and decent players rarely make headlines in the off season.

I think that the NFL should keep track of player conduct and keep a list that will be announced all at once so as to minimize the plublicity any one player can get from the suspension.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

I see your point jdlea, but I don't pity a guy who's been privileged his whole life and gets just a [I]taste[/I] of the kind of rules the rest of us deal with and abide by.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

NFL Network just reported that Jones could be suspended for a longer period if he is charged with a crime in the Vegas incident. They also read the letter Goodell sent to Jones and Henry and man was it harsh.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;296161]I see your point jdlea, but I don't pity a guy who's been privileged his whole life and gets just a [I]taste[/I] of the kind of rules the rest of us deal with and abide by.[/QUOTE]

That's your prerogative. I'm not really trying to sway anyone. I kinda feel like, if a guy gets arrested a couple times, he messed up. A guy gets arrested like 10 or whatever it's been for Pacman, [B]he's[/B] messed up. I feel sorry for him. I think a lot of people contributed to his life being screwed up almost as much as he screwed it up himself. He needs some help, I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished, but I believe the NFL should consider finding a way to help him get his life straightened out. He screwed up his own life, but I still feel sorry for him.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;296163]NFL Network just reported that Jones could be suspended for a longer period if he is charged with a crime in the Vegas incident. They also read the letter Goodell sent to Jones and Henry and man was it harsh.[/quote]


I caught the same thing on ESPN with CM. They better not screw up or it could be a short lived career?

TANK your next!

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

It's only fair that he gets suspended...if any of us did that in our REAL jobs, we'd be fired...not suspended. Why do athletes get special priviledges and millions of dollars to play a freakin GAME? Then they behave poorly? I for one am thrilled the NFL did this, and hope the other major sports take note.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=GoSkins!;296155]I think that most places can fire or suspend a person for anything the company feels is not in the best interest of the company (i.e. violating company policy). That includes having interoffice relationships (not a crime), not following safety rules (not a crime), saying "nappy headed ho" (not a crime). The NFL is a company. If the policy of the company is to require players to "avoid embarissing public behavior", then they have that right.

I'm tired of players using high-priced attorneys, paid for by the money they are paid from the NFL, to get them off of crimes any of us would get convicted for. Then to throw it back and say "but I wasn't convicted"... come on...

Kudos (with a 'K') to Goodell and the NFL.[/quote]

Nicely put, GoSkins! That 'K' REALLY looks NICE! :)

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

Interesting commentary from a former NFL laywer on NFL Network.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=jdlea;296030]I'm not going to try to defend anything Pacman Jones has done. However, I think his conduct is an indictment of the way young athletes are treated throughout their lives. Pacman's problems are not new...he was getting into trouble at WVU. Everyone knew it then, he has a problem. He can't stay outta trouble. No one ever did anything about it at West Virginia, all they did was enable him. All so they could make their millions of dollars by exploiting their players, but that's another topic. Pacman had trouble with the law at WVU and everyone around the university did everything they could to keep him on the field so they could make money. All he's ever learned is that as long as he performs on the field, his problems will go away off of it. As much as he made his own decisions, I feel sorry for a lot of the kids who grow up without the advantages most of the people judging them have enjoyed. Especially since, if they didn't have a father, the only males they really see are their coaches and they're too busy trying to figure out how to keep him on the field, rather than out of trouble. It's a little disturbing. I'm not condoning any of Pacman's actions, but I think there's a problem with this society, just as much as with him.

Another thought, Henry and Jones were both disciplinary problems in college. They also went to the same college, West Virginia. Why isn't Rich Rodriguez held accountable in any way? He did nothing about this when they were there. Where the hell was he? He just made sure they kept making the university money by taking them to a bowl game, it's bullshit.

Somehow, I don't think taking a troubled kid and making him a millionaire is the best way to solve people's problems. People should have seen this coming. I feel sorry for Pacman Jones.[/quote]

I don't feel sorry for that clown at all. He has a chance to make more $ than most people will make in 100 lifetimes. With that comes a certain responsibility. Didn't this guy attend the rookie symposium? sp? At some point you have to learn on your own how to be a man.

I didn't grow up w/ a father around and I had common sense not to hang out with people who carry guns. THAT'S COMMON SENSE!!! Pacman has no common sense and now he has to live with his punishment.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;296173]I don't feel sorry for that clown at all. He has a chance to make more $ than most people will make in 100 lifetimes. With that comes a certain responsibility. Didn't this guy attend the rookie symposium? sp? At some point you have to learn on your own how to be a man.

I didn't grow up w/ a father around and I had common sense not to hang out with people who carry guns. THAT'S COMMON SENSE!!! Pacman has no common sense and now he has to live with his punishment.[/QUOTE]

I'm not really disagreeing. Also, though, maybe he felt like he grew up in a place where it was thought to be a good idea to carry a gun. He's from a bad part of Atlanta. That's probably a relatively rough area. Also, the point I'm making is that he got a pass his whole life because he could play football. Finally, the rookie symposium is probably something, people like him (those who have been given a pass their whole life), don't have the good sense to pay attention to. Like I've said, he made his own decisions, this is his fault. But there are contributing factors and those factors are the reason I feel sorry for him.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;296171]Interesting commentary from a former NFL laywer on NFL Network.[/quote]

whats a laywer?:)

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

Damn right! Great job Roger Goodell!

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

serves him right, should have been a lifetime ban in my opinion.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!;296176]whats a laywer?:)[/QUOTE]

Someone who is almost a lawyer, but is too sloppy to catch dumb spelling mistakes.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

Just caught ole Floyd Reese cup the ex GM from TT that brought this fool in, on ESPN the entire panel agreed on these suspensions....I know it's hard to believe they all agree on anything!

Then they interviewed Chris M, he stated that the 10 incidents for PACMAN, was more LIKE 15! Give em hell Goodell, clean up this mess. Ya gotta start somewhere. GREAT JOB!

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;296184]Someone who is almost a lawyer, but is too sloppy to catch dumb spelling mistakes.[/quote]

Sorry SGG, I watchin him like a HAWK, you just type faster than I do.
Spelling Susp****** coming up? Time out this time.......GoSkins!

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

What happens to each teams [B]cap space[/B]? Can they recover all or part of the money? I mean if it doesn't go to the player does it count toward the cap? Does it make a difference if the Titans release Pacman?


On another note does anyone think this will affect who people draft in the coming years? Will teams choose not to draft a Ramonce Taylor(felony drug possession), Nate Harris(armed robbery), or Eric Wright(sexual assault)? Surely this must cause this type players to drop in the draft. I say this with joy because I have always been for drafting players who had good attitudes as well as skill.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=Hijinx;296191]What happens to each teams [B]cap space[/B]? Can they recover all or part of the money? I mean if it doesn't go to the player does it count toward the cap? Does it make a difference if the Titans release Pacman?


On another note does anyone think this will affect who people draft in the coming years? Will teams choose not to draft a Ramonce Taylor(felony drug possession), Nate Harris(armed robbery), or Eric Wright(sexual assault)? Surely this must cause this type players to drop in the draft. I say this with joy because I have always been for drafting players who had good attitudes as well as skill.[/quote]

If this doesn't make a team re-think a player with conduct issues, they are flat out stupid.

I believe what I heard the TT would be entitled to recover somewhere in the 3 mil range if they choose, that includes bonus monies? I would think that would be a no brainer....no play.....no pay.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=skinsfan69;296173]I don't feel sorry for that clown at all. He has a chance to make more $ than most people will make in 100 lifetimes. With that comes a certain responsibility. Didn't this guy attend the rookie symposium? sp? At some point you have to learn on your own how to be a man.

I didn't grow up w/ a father around and I had common sense not to hang out with people who carry guns. THAT'S COMMON SENSE!!! Pacman has no common sense and now he has to live with his punishment.[/quote]Very well said.

I don't have much to say on this topic. I wish it would all just go away the fans could talk more football and less criminal behavior. He deserves what he's getting, and hopefully he will learn something for it, because losing the entire 2007 from a developmental perspective will probably keep him from ever reaching his potential. It's going to take him a few years after he's reinstated to work his way back to the level of play he reached last year, and theres no guarentee he will ever regain his pro bowl form again.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

Is anyone else thinking Springs to the Titans for some draft picks now? No...no one? Ok

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;296198]Very well said.

I don't have much to say on this topic. I wish it would all just go away the fans could talk more football and less criminal behavior. He deserves what he's getting, and hopefully he will learn something for it, because losing the entire 2007 from a developmental perspective will probably keep him from ever reaching his potential. It's going to take him a few years after he's reinstated to work his way back to the level of play he reached last year, and theres no guarentee he will ever regain his pro bowl form again.[/quote]

Yupp, and the last point you made is right on. I don't know if he will reach a high level for a while. Also the NFL has to think about the kids that stay up and watch games. Pacman is an appealing player to them because of swagger and hey his name is catchy.

He is just an idiot on so many levels. He makes T.O. seem like a saint.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

I'm hoping for a trickle down effect that stems from this new policy. It's possible that high school and college coaches can now use this indirectly for their discipline tool.

Example dialog...

"Hey Keith, look, I know you like going out and having a good time. Heck, if I had a nickel for every time I got drunk and stopped by the cops I wouldn't need this job coaching {chuckle, chuckle}. But, I didn't have the gifted athleticism like you do. You know the pro's have a real tough policy when it comes to these sort of things now and believe they are serious about it. I want you to have the best future possible and, man, I'd hate to not have the opportunity see that talent running wild on Sunday afternoon's all because you drank too much and decided to drive just a few blocks back to your apartment. Next time, give me a call and i'll take you home."

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

I know the NFL isn't responsible per se for them, but how are Jones and Henry going to be better people overall if they don't have the structure of football. I realize neither was a saint to begin with, but I fear it getting much worse before it gets better (if it ever does). In a way it reminds me of Mike Tyson.

Re: Pacman suspended for entire 2007 season!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;296211]I know the NFL isn't responsible per se for them, but how are Jones and Henry going to be better people overall if they don't have the structure of football. I realize neither was a saint to begin with, but I fear it getting much worse before it gets better (if it ever does). In a way it reminds me of Mike Tyson.[/quote]

I doubt very much there is hope to change these guys. It is more to show future and current players that the league has the right and the will to police them.

If anyone saw that "interview" Pacman had with Deion Sanders they would figure out quite quickly that this guy isn't going to mature in time to still play in the NFL. He had no regret just thought he was being blamed for hanging out with the wrong people.