Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;304943]Can't there be a choice of "Like it" ??

I don't hate it, I don't love it, so I chose on the fence.[/QUOTE]

Agreed! I'm a fence sitter as well. I'm thinking about some switching to the 3-4 Defensive packages.

Man, this fence is hard to hang on! Ain't comfortable either!

I know it takes two teams to make a trade-down work, but that is really what I was looking for.

So, high atop my fence perch, I see the best choice was LL, (kind of like saying AA, but better, younger, and certainly faster!), but a trade would have netted more bodies.

I feel like this fence is hitting me in the groin area!

LL was both a high character guy, as well as higher rated than any DE/DL on the board at the 6th pick.

Did I mention my groin! (Painful expression inserted here!) :censored:

And on top of it all; (kind of like this fence thingy!), the Washpost had said the B&G were looking to take LL right where they did!

I hope the FO feels the same about this fence situation that I feel! (Agony, hurt!)

Re: It's Landry!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;304577]Yeah, that's so typical. Give some examples.

At no. 6, this was the right choice. No one, not even the vaunted Okoye was as good a choice at #6. Now, would we have better off trading down and getting more players. Yeah probably, but as someone (I believe Offiss) pointed out, it takes more than one team to complete a trade. And with a deep draft on D, like this year's, it's not as easy to make a trade.[/quote]

Smooty, with all due respect, were you a fan back in the 90's? Because that is all that this team did. Maybe this team will start to change it's philosophy but, this team was notorious for drafting guys, developing them for 4 to 5 years and then letting them go to became stars on another team. I now realize that this Landry pick was probably the best thing that this team could do given all of the well documented and discused draft scenaios. If you want an example, here is one of our somewhat most recent C. Bailey and Lavar A. Look at the termoil and unsettled nature that these two positions have left our team. But, I will say this, this offseason looks familar to the one we had back in 05'. And we know how much fun we had back then as fans. Go Skins!

Re: It's Landry!
 

[QUOTE=4mrusmc;305350]Smooty, with all due respect, were you a fan back in the 90's? Because that is all that this team did. Maybe this team will start to change it's philosophy but, this team was notorious for drafting guys, developing them for 4 to 5 years and then letting them go to became stars on another team. I now realize that this Landry pick was probably the best thing that this team could do given all of the well documented and discused draft scenaios. If you want an example, here is one of our somewhat most recent C. Bailey and Lavar A. Look at the termoil and unsettled nature that these two positions have left our team. But, I will say this, this offseason looks familar to the one we had back in 05'. And we know how much fun we had back then as fans. Go Skins![/QUOTE]

Been a fan since the early 80s. The only person in recent memory who you can say went on to be a star (or stud) on another team is Antonio Pierce. And we didn't even draft him really, he was an undrafted free agent. Champ was a star from day one in the NFL, but we got (in my opinion at least) a star in Clinton Portis.

LaVar is a legend in his own mind only. There is no other player they lost that went on to be a star on another team. The only player we really should have never lost is Antonio Pierce, and maybe Ryan Clark. Ramsey, Arrington, Bowen, Royal, Gardner, McCants, etc-I don't miss any of them. Neither should anyone else.

Re: It's Landry!
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;305368]Been a fan since the early 80s. The only person in recent memory who you can say went on to be a star (or stud) on another team is Antonio Pierce. And we didn't even draft him really, he was an undrafted free agent. Champ was a star from day one in the NFL, but we got (in my opinion at least) a star in Clinton Portis.

LaVar is a legend in his own mind only. There is no other player they lost that went on to be a star on another team. The only player we really should have never lost is Antonio Pierce, and maybe Ryan Clark. Ramsey, Arrington, Bowen, Royal, Gardner, McCants, etc-I don't miss any of them. Neither should anyone else.[/QUOTE]

SS, you didn't mention Ramsey.....I guess that means that you miss him.

;)

Re: It's Landry!
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P;305371]SS, you didn't mention Ramsey.....I guess that means that you miss him.

;)[/QUOTE]

I mentioned him

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

Stephen Davis did have that one big year with the Panthers, but then his leg fell off and his career hasn't been the same since.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

[QUOTE=ArtMonkDrillz;305376]Stephen Davis did have that one big year with the Panthers, but then his leg fell off and his career hasn't been the same since.[/QUOTE]

True, and I'm sure you can throw Brad Johnson in there. But I was thinking more in terms of since Gibbs joined

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

I remember everyone here wishing that we still had Stephen Davis when Gibbs came to town because he was a "Gibbs-type" back.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;305378]True, and I'm sure you can throw Brad Johnson in there. But I was thinking more in terms of since Gibbs joined[/QUOTE]
I agree with you. I was thinking about it and Davis was just about the only name I came up with, but he doesn't even really count b/c he was a beast for us.

As far as players since Gibbs came back, I guess one could argue that we haven't drafted well/had all that many draft picks since his return.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

the draft has passed, and we are still stuck with the worst defensive line in the league. Something tells me that is not a good thing!!!

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

You guys should really check out JLa's guest blog. Some guy who went by the named Sherrif Gonna Getcha (could it be our very own?) did a really nice breakdown on our defense. I know many might not agree, but he makes some really good points.

[QUOTE]I have seriously
considered becoming a sports writer.

Hey J-La,

I'm a big fan of Redskins Insider (I post as Sheriff Gonna Getcha). I had some thoughts and stats about the Landry pick for all the people who really wanted a lineman.

Let me start off by saying that I was a huge Jamaal Anderson advocate and really wanted the Redskins to draft him (or Okoye). After we made the pick official and the reality of it set in (about 3:30am here in Sydney) I started trying to get excited about our defensive backfield and its numerous playmakers. But for some reason I couldn't let go of the idea of having a relentless pass-rushing, run-stuffing DE for our line. But then I took a look at some of our stats for the last three seasons.

I looked at our 2004 defense (ranked #3), 2005 defense (#9), and our pitiful 2006 defense (#31). One stat group I studied included Sacks, Interceptions, and Forced Fumbles because these plays can all have a large impact on the game. We can call them Defensive Impact Plays (DIP). The total DIP numbers were 70 (40 S, 18 INT, 12 FF), 66 (32 S, 16 INT, 18 FF), and 36 (19 S, 6 INT, 11 FF) in 2004, 2005, and 2006 respectively (there was one FF each year by an offensive player which was removed).

There was a slight decrease from 2004 to 2005 (just as the defense had a slight overall decline) but the numbers are fairly comparable. But what jumps out at you is that we had 30 less DIP in 2006 than in 2005. Now I know that anyone who watched us this year would not be surprised at any of these numbers. But they are much more surprising when you break them up into Defensive Back, Linebacker, and Defensive Line stats for each year. Here is what that looks like:

Sacks INT FF
2004
DB 9 15 7 31
LB 11 2 3 16
DL 20 1 2 23
40 18 12 Total = 70

2005
DB 4.5 10 9 23.5
LB 11.5 5 6 22.5
DL 16 1 3 20
32 16 18 Total = 66

2006
DB 1 5 4 10
LB 5 0 4 9
DL 13 1 3 17
19 6 11 Total = 36


Gregg Williams is known for using an aggressive blitzing defense so these numbers make sense. For instance, when our defense was considered to be at its peak (2004), the DBs and LBs combined for 47 DIP out of 70, or 67% of DIP. In 2005, when our defense was still very effective, the DBs and LBs combined for 46 DIP out of 66 total, or about 70% of DIP. Now in 2006, with the loss of Ryan Clark (FA), Walt Harris (FA), Pierson Prioleau (INJ), and even Sean Springs (INJ) for 7 games, the DBs struggled to produce, resulting in 10 DIP.

The LBs regressed as well with only 9 DIP. But the interesting thing is that the DL still managed a respectable 17 DIP, compared to 20 DIP in 2005 and 23 DIP in 2004. The DBs and LBs combined for only 53% of DIP in 2006, down from 70% in 2005 and 67% in 2004.

Many of us Skins fans have been wondering aloud about the lack of urgency the 'Braintrust' has displayed towards upgrading our Defensive Line this offseason. We only had five picks in this draft (only one first day pick) and yet we used one pick on a DB, two picks on LB, two picks on offense, and exactly zero picks on the DL. But perhaps Gibbs is not completely wrong when he says that our DL is just fine. Yes, Griffin is our only standout. Yes, neither Golston nor Carter is much of a force against the run. Yes, Griffin and Daniels are old and slowing down.

But this line still produced last year despite multiple injuries. According to the DIP index, they performed much better than both the DBs and LBs and were not far from their DIP production of the last two years when we had top ten defenses in the league. Plus, Andre Carter really did not settle in until late in the year when he was given fewer instructions and more freedom to simply play.

Looking at these stats, our DL may not have been our biggest problem last year. Our DBs and LBs had the biggest drop offs in performance. With an offseason that has included solid upgrades in the DBs (Landry, Smoot, and Macklin) and LBs (London Fletcher), perhaps our defense will return to form in Gregg Williams' creative blitz-happy schemes in 2007.

Even if you don't completely buy my argument, these statistics have to make you a little more at ease about our defense in the upcoming season.
-Harry

P.S. If people are going to argue that DBs and LBs aren't going to help with the run as much as a DL, I would agree. But our defensive yards/carry stats for the last three years make that point less relevant. In 2004, we gave up 3.1 yards/carry which was 1st in the league. In 2005, we gave up 4.1 yards/carry which was 21st in the league. In 2006, we gave up 4.5 yards/carry which was 25th in the league. Yet, in terms of total yards (tradition way to rank defenses) and points/game given up, our defenses ranked #3/#5 in 2004, #9/#9 in 2005, and #29/#27 in 2006. Though the yards/carry shot up from 2004 to 2005, our overall defense only slightly regressed. And when our yards/carry only slightly increased from 2005 to 2006, our overall defense plummeted. Therefore, with this (admittedly miniscule) sample, DIP was actually a far superior indicator of our overall defensive performance than our ability to stop the run (illustrated by yards/carry). [/QUOTE]


Here's the link...[url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2007/05/another_great_guest_blog.html#more]Another Great Guest Blog - Redskins Insider[/url]

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P;305386]I remember everyone here wishing that we still had Stephen Davis when Gibbs came to town because he was a "Gibbs-type" back.[/QUOTE]

Something tells me Davis could never have stood up to the pounding Gibbs would have required of him. He was yet another example of how most running backs can only do it for 3 or 4 seasons in top form.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

those stats don't lie... our DB's production has plummeted from our #3rd ranked defense to last years #31. feeling better about landry a little more every day.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

[quote=Redskins_P;305438]You guys should really check out JLa's guest blog. Some guy who went by the named Sherrif Gonna Getcha (could it be our very own?) did a really nice breakdown on our defense. I know many might not agree, but he makes some really good points.




Here's the link...[URL="http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2007/05/another_great_guest_blog.html#more"]Another Great Guest Blog - Redskins Insider[/URL][/quote]

Good read.

The one thing that really stood out to me last year was the lack of gang tackling. In 2005 you almost always saw guys swarming to the ball, last year we had way too many instances of shoddy tackling. Fletcher and Landry should help in the tackling dept. immediately.

Re: It's Landry!
 

[quote=Schneed10;303975]This draft has left me feeling empty. It's so hard to watch all the other teams in the NFL getting better at multiple positions while we basically are standing still and just getting a year older.

I would have rather seen us address the defensive line, but I'm not totally against LaRon Landry as a player. He may be good for us for years. My problem is he's the only guy we added today.

There are 31 teams around the NFL who got better today. I don't feel like we did.[/quote]

The Redskins got better with Landry. He's going to make our defense that much more versatile. He's an explosive player that loves to hit and make big plays. We made the absolute best possible pick by drafting the best defensive player in the entire draft. AA was there last year for gods sake, to say that's not a need position is nuts......

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

[quote=Redskins_P;305438]You guys should really check out JLa's guest blog. Some guy who went by the named Sherrif Gonna Getcha (could it be our very own?) did a really nice breakdown on our defense. I know many might not agree, but he makes some really good points.




Here's the link...[URL="http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2007/05/another_great_guest_blog.html#more"]Another Great Guest Blog - Redskins Insider[/URL][/quote]

I couldn't agree more. This really makes sense with all the numbers in your face! So on paper:

Taylor, Landry, Rogers, Spings / Smoot
Fletcher / Blades, Washington, Mcintosh / Marshall /

We are already going to be sick as hell! Look out NFL b/c the Skins are back and flying under the radar....

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;305481]Good read.

The one thing that really stood out to me last year was the lack of gang tackling. In 2005 you almost always saw guys swarming to the ball, last year we had way too many instances of shoddy tackling. Fletcher and Landry should help in the tackling dept. immediately.[/QUOTE]

Very true. If theres one thing that you could point out from last year that really hurt defensively it was the poor tackling and it mainly came from the LB and DB positions. The D-line can only do so much.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

You build teams from the inside out, Taylor and Landry our gonna have to cover recievers for hours bc of no pass rusher, and they can't do that.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

The thing that's always bothered me about Williams' system is the almost total reliance on the secondary and linebackers for the pass rush. I know it all seemed to work fine in 2004, and to a lesser extent in '05.

The problem is that if your secondary isn't as talented or suffers from significant injuries, your pass rush goes to hell if the defensive line can't pick up the slack. That's why I continue to say that no matter the sophistication of a particular defense, you still have to be at least better than average along the front four.

Until they make some upgrades, even with Landry and Fletcher I think we could be in trouble.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

[quote=Beemnseven;305513]The thing that's always bothered me about Williams' system is the almost total reliance on the secondary and linebackers for the pass rush. I know it all seemed to work fine in 2004, and to a lesser extent in '05.

The problem is that if your secondary isn't as talented or suffers from significant injuries, your pass rush goes to hell if the defensive line can't pick up the slack. That's why I continue to say that no matter the sophistication of a particular defense, you still have to be at least better than average along the front four.

Until they make some upgrades, even with Landry and Fletcher I think we could be in trouble.[/quote]

Landry will make more plays and create more turnovers then any lineman in the draft this year. Just wait and see rather than dark cloud....that's just my take.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

[quote=Beemnseven;305513]The thing that's always bothered me about Williams' system is the almost total reliance on the secondary and linebackers for the pass rush. I know it all seemed to work fine in 2004, and to a lesser extent in '05.[/quote]

It worked in his time with the Titans and Bills as well, and the roots of his scheme goes back to Buddy Ryan and the 46 which brought pressure from all over the field too. It may not be conventional, but it's also not a fad type of system either.

Re: It's Landry!
 

[quote=JDALY27;305482]The Redskins got better with Landry. He's going to make our defense that much more versatile. He's an explosive player that loves to hit and make big plays. We made the absolute best possible pick by drafting the best defensive player in the entire draft. AA was there last year for gods sake, to say that's not a need position is nuts......[/quote]

EXACTLY. I'm sick of the whining. We filled a lot of holes and needs with this draft: safety, LB, backup QB (unless you all WANT Todd Collins). The only unnecessary pick was the TE, but hey, how many 7th rounders ever make the team anyways?

We had a great draft as I see it.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

I might like Landry a lot, but we needed the much anticipated pass rusher. We brought in nobody to do that....

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

[quote=davelavarra;305620]I might like Landry a lot, but we needed the much anticipated pass rusher. We brought in nobody to do that....[/quote]

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R211e6JdVew&mode=related&search=]YouTube - Laron Landry Hit[/url]

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

Sherriff's piece is great. Top notch stuff. I would make this point about the yards per carry we give up. 3.1 in 2004 is superb. It means that teams simply couldn't run the ball. 4.1 in 2005 is okay. You're not stuffing people but you're not getting bulldozed either. 4.5 in 2006 puts you in dangerous territory. The .4 yards between 4.1 and 4.5 are far more significant than the 1 yard between 3.1 and 4.1. At some point, if the numbers keep going up, you pass a tipping point.

Think of it this way. If you went from throwing 40 TDs to 20 and then 10, the drop from 20 to 10 is much more devestating even though it's a numerically smaller decrease than going from 40 to 20.

I think what's significant is that the Redskins have gotten consistently worse and they should have done something to adress the negative trend after 2005.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

Nice job RedskinP, and good follow-up Matty. But, I would have liked to have seen the stat on tackles as well. I think that would have also trended with the other years accordingly.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

[quote=70Chip;305683]Sherriff's piece is great. Top notch stuff. I would make this point about the yards per carry we give up. 3.1 in 2004 is superb. It means that teams simply couldn't run the ball. 4.1 in 2005 is okay. You're not stuffing people but you're not getting bulldozed either. 4.5 in 2006 puts you in dangerous territory. The .4 yards between 4.1 and 4.5 are far more significant than the 1 yard between 3.1 and 4.1. At some point, if the numbers keep going up, you pass a tipping point.

Think of it this way. If you went from throwing 40 TDs to 20 and then 10, the drop from 20 to 10 is much more devestating even though it's a numerically smaller decrease than going from 40 to 20.

I think what's significant is that the Redskins have gotten consistently worse and they should have done something to adress the negative trend after 2005.[/quote]

You have to consider LB play when looking at the yards per carry. I think that we all saw how much worse it got with Pierce gone and Holdman playing. Arringtons presence on running down late in 2005 solidified the run defense. It is easy for me to believewhat I am being told by the skins talking heads. They think the DL is not to blame for the poor run defense and they acknowldege that the DE position could be improved but not with late round draft picks.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;305562]It worked in his time with the Titans and Bills as well, and the roots of his scheme goes back to Buddy Ryan and the 46 which brought pressure from all over the field too. It may not be conventional, but it's also not a fad type of system either.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I know his scheme isn't flavor of the month type stuff, but Buddy Ryan apparently found it important enough to build his defenses with top notch linemen like Dent, Hampton, Clyde Simmons, Jerome Brown and Reggie White.

You still have to have a decent front four. I know the coaches think everything is hunky-dorey with our guys, but we'll know for sure by August.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!;305851]You have to consider LB play when looking at the yards per carry. I think that we all saw how much worse it got with Pierce gone and Holdman playing. Arringtons presence on running down late in 2005 solidified the run defense. It is easy for me to believewhat I am being told by the skins talking heads. They think the DL is not to blame for the poor run defense and they acknowldege that the DE position could be improved but not with late round draft picks.[/QUOTE]

I went to NFL.com and added up all the tackles by the four starters in 2005 (Daniels, Griffin, Salave'a and Wynn) and they totalled 118. Last year, Daniels, Griff, Salave'a and Carter all got 127. So while the run defense statistically plummeted, the front four actually made more tackles.

I know stats can be deceiving with defensive linemen, but I do think your point about the linebackers slacking last year has some validity.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

Interesting to see the D-line actually had more tackles, but I guess we could also consider that teams probably pounded us more with the run since it worked so well. I guess we could always look up rushing attempts against our D from 2005 vs. 2006 to see if that holds any water.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

My response was that "I hated it". I chose that response because I felt the Redskins biggest need was defensive line. It was not addressed. Landry will probably be a good safety, if not a great safety, but the defensive line is horrible and the defense will continue to struggle if they cannot get any pressure on the opposing quarterback. I don't care how good your secondary is, if you cannot get after the quarterback, most professional quarterbacks will pick your secondarty apart. I good pass rush makes a mediocre secondary look good. Both sides of the ball are built up front. You need a strong offensive line and a strong defensive line. Otherwise, your team will struggle. The Redskins are hoping for a miracle. They want this aging defensive line to all of a sudden become healthy and skilled. Good Luck.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

I think defensively it's different. Could a great secondary not make your defensive line look great? I'm sure you've heard of coverage sacks. Hopefully we can get some more of those since we're not having AA or Kenny Wright getting toasted every other play.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

I would contend that Carter came on strong at the end of last season, Golston showed a lot of promise (coaches like Montgomery as well), and Griffin is still a force. So the line, while not awesome, is not awful.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;306007]I would contend that Carter came on strong at the end of last season, Golston showed a lot of promise (coaches like Montgomery as well), and Griffin is still a force. So the line, while not awesome, is not awful.[/quote]

You are correct. If they stay healthy, they're not bad...you could even call them "pretty good".

The whines that we have the worst D-Line in the NFL are ridiculous.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;306007]I would contend that Carter came on strong at the end of last season, Golston showed a lot of promise (coaches like Montgomery as well), and Griffin is still a force. So the line, while not awesome, is not awful.[/quote]

If no one gets hurt (Griffin) and no one's play declines because of age (Daniels, Wynn, Salavea) , they will be fine.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

I think the key will be how healthy Salave'a is. When healthy, he's a decent run stopper that plays with a high motor.


I'm also interested in seeing the development of Montgomery and Golston.

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

And I'm still on the Jared Clauss Bandwagon (just me and his mama I suppose). Watch out for him this year!

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;306030]And I'm still on the Jared Clauss Bandwagon (just me and his mama I suppose). Watch out for him this year![/QUOTE]

[url=http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/jared_clauss]NFL.com - Prospect Profiles[/url]

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

[QUOTE=offiss;306071][url=http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/jared_clauss]NFL.com - Prospect Profiles[/url][/QUOTE]

So uh...you on this bandwagon with me? The Clauss Caravan

Re: It's LaRon Landry!
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;306098]So uh...you on this bandwagon with me? The Clauss Caravan[/QUOTE]

Not really.:) I think they really need to develope Golston and Montgomery, this season at least on defense will probably hinge on these 2 and whether or not they can be bonified players on the inside, that will allow Salvae and Griffen to stay fresh and hopefully healthy. We will be able to pressure the QB with our blitz packages if they can just hold the point of attack. If they are progressing as Gibbs has suggested then we will be looking very strong on defense, and 1 draft away from really solidifing the team as a whole.

Campbell will have his growing pains this year [up's and downs] while he learns, next season we should be primed for a SB run hopefully.