Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[quote=skinsfan69;337062]No. I'm not saying he is the guy to turn anything around. All I'm saying is from what I saw just from two practices he looks better than Brunell and Palmer. Now I'm not saying he is a great QB or anything. Hell, he may suck. But the point I'm trying to make is why is it that so many guys on a 5-11 team have their positions nailed down? Can someone ask me why we have no competition at the back-up qb position? If we had any other coaching staff I bet there would be.

Also at WR. ARE, Lloyd and Thrash should all be battleling for the #2. No one on the roster has proven they can be a #2. But it's reported that it's ARE job. For what? Did Goldston show enough to be nailed down as the stater for the other DT opposite Griff? Hell no he didn't. So again that job should be open for competition.[/quote]
First off ARE is only listed as the 2nd because that where he ended at last year which has been explained several times. Second you are basicaly saying that our coaching staff including Gibbs have no clue on how to coach a football team.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

gibbs kept the veterans on the team to keep JC comfortable....Gibbs knows brunell and collins are done as starters, and therefore there is less pressure on JC from the backup position. Plus the experience of the two guys will definitely help JC's progression. I'm excited to see the saunders offense in it's second year.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[quote=firstdown;337088]First off ARE is only listed as the 2nd because that where he ended at last year which has been explained several times. Second you are basicaly saying that our coaching staff including Gibbs have no clue on how to coach a football team.[/quote]

Hey, he did go to 2 practices.

C'mon now.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[quote=offiss;337032]I saw Bramlett play and I have to say I wasn't overly impressed, but you do make some very valid points, I do think Gibbs, and Saunders are married to there guy's, whether or not Bramlett can cut it who really knows at this point, I will take your word that he looked good in practice comparatively, but we all know neither Brunell or Collins can cut it, so why bother keeping them around? What purpose are they going to serve, make coaches out of them if they are so smart, it's not like anyone else is going consider playing them. If Bramlett is not the answer we should have more than just Palmer as the future backup plan at QB.[/quote]Maybe you are wrong in your assessment of the two old guys?

Not that I believe a youth movement is a bad thing, but holy crap if we keep Brunell as the backup and Jordan Palmer as the third stringer and let Collins go like most of us thought would happen on draft day (before Casey Bramlet did something totally meaningless and we anointed him), would anyone be unhappy?

After Campbell and Brunell, we really don't have anything, so I would personally let Palmer take the third spot, but I wouldn't really care if we put him on the practice squad and Collins got it one more year.

Remember when I asked you to name a backup worth having, and you threw Charlie Frye's name out there? I'm beginning to think that you would be OK with [I]anybody[/I] at QB as long as he's young. Imagine if we actually did make that move (Frye for Brunell and a pick). I mean, yeah the difference between him and Brunell could cost us a win or two this year (assuming MB is forced into action), but then you'd be all over the FO! "Why did we sign Fletcher! Smoot Sucks! We shouldn't have drafted Rogers! Should have kept Dockery!" Unwilling to admit that their actually could be a QB out there worse than Brunell. Charlie Frye, IMO, is the very definition of worse than Brunell.

Am I wrong here?

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

I did not see the scrimage but what did Palmer do to be so impressive other than throwing a TD in a semi hitting situation.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;337090]Hey, he did go to 2 practices.

C'mon now.[/QUOTE]

And stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[quote=FRPLG;337095]And stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.[/quote]

LOL true

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

We should have signed dockery, that one will bite us in the behind

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[quote=The Zimmermans;337100]We should have signed dockery, that one will bite us in the behind[/quote]

Did you want him for $49M??

Sorry but there is no way in hell he'll prove to be worthy of that contract.

The Bills gave superstar money to a good player. Good, but nothing great.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[quote=Mattyk72;337103]Did you want him for $49M??

Sorry but there is no way in hell he'll prove to be worthy of that contract.

The Bills gave superstar money to a good player. Good, but nothing great.[/quote]


yes, a proven player deserves his money, especially if it keeps the O-line together....the most important factor in the redskins success......let's just give a rookie who hasnt played a snap 5 million a year instead.....i say screw fletcher, sign dockery, just an opinion, we'll cross our fingers with "i played one game and played well last year" todd wade

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[quote=The Zimmermans;337105]yes, a proven player deserves his money, especially if it keeps the O-line together....the most important factor in the redskins success......let's just give a rookie who hasnt played a snap 5 million a year instead.....i say screw fletcher, sign dockery, just an opinion, we'll cross our fingers with "i played one game and played well last year" todd wade[/quote]

A proven player deserves to be paid... within reason.

Dockery is being paid like a top lineman, and he's not even close to that on the field.

You can't compare rookies to free agents because that's just apples and oranges.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

I'm comparing dollars to dollars

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

Do you guys think that letting Collins go would be a liability if he was picked up by an NFC EAST team?

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[quote=The Zimmermans;337109]I'm comparing dollars to dollars[/quote]

Still apples and oranges.

Rookies are paid based on where they were drafted, not much that a team can do about that.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

I agree, I thought they should sign both landry and dockery, and forget the free agent CRAP

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

So just sign no free agents at all?

What's the point of that? Free agency can be just as valuable as the draft when used correctly. When you compare what the Skins did in free agency this year to the rest of the league, I thought they were selective and smart for a change, and the deals they gave out were very reasonable.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

They could move collins over and make him a QB assistant coach, thats all he seems to be good for. Make Palmer #3,sit with Brunell at #2 and pray that Campbell doesnt go down. With Campbell in there, Ladell Betts profited from the fact that defenses finally feared the long ball, something they dont have to do with Brunell in there. He's been done for a couple years now.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

how were the redskins effective in free agency if they did not acquire any D-linemen? We went 5-11 with the D-line we had last year, with the worst defense in the league, the least sacks, and a horrible run D. I like the looks of the offense for the most part, but the D-line? are you serious?

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;337088]First off ARE is only listed as the 2nd because that where he ended at last year which has been explained several times. Second you are basicaly saying that our coaching staff including Gibbs have no clue on how to coach a football team.[/QUOTE]

Not only that, but per NFL rules all teams must submit their depth charts to the league prior to the first preseason game (I'm pretty sure it's the first preseason game).

Why that's a rule, I don't really know. I think it's primarily for media purposes actually. But every team has to submit it. Just about everyone knows rankings are subject to change and, like you pointed out, it's often just the way the depth chart was at the end of the previous season. But it's required.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[quote=The Zimmermans;337118]how were the redskins effective in free agency if they did not acquire any D-linemen? We went 5-11 with the D-line we had last year, with the worst defense in the league, the least sacks, and a horrible run D. I like the looks of the offense for the most part, but the D-line? are you serious?[/quote]

They filled a glaring need at MLB and significantly boosted the CB depth.

As far as the d-line goes there must be some very logical reasons as to why the felt they could stand pat.

We'll see very soon what that thinking was.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[QUOTE=The Zimmermans;337118]how were the redskins effective in free agency if they did not acquire any D-linemen? We went 5-11 with the D-line we had last year, with the worst defense in the league, the least sacks, and a horrible run D. I like the looks of the offense for the most part, but the D-line? are you serious?[/QUOTE]

So, grabbing a tackling machine will somehow not sure up the run defense? What are you talking about? Getting DB help to try to bolster a defensive backfield that gave up big play after big play last season, that wasn't a good move?

Basically, you're saying the Skins should have given Dockery whatever he wanted, drafted Landry and then tried to pick defensive lineman, exclusively, after the first round. Because, as you said, "screw free agency." That's some of the worst logic I've ever heard.

I wish they had picked up a d lineman as well and I also wish they had drafted some, but just because they didn't does not mean that the rest of the offseason acquisitions were horrible. C'mon.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;337124]They filled a glaring need at MLB and significantly boosted the CB depth.

As far as the d-line goes there must be some very logical reasons as to why the felt they could stand pat.

We'll see very soon what that thinking was.[/QUOTE]

It's kind of ironic really. The interior of the D-Line is one area that the Redskins are definitely looking toward deep in their draft, and not free agency, for improvement (with Golston and Montgomery) and yet they're getting lambasted for that.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

I hope the young guys at DT overachieve, then we can expect success on that side of the ball.....I love smoot, hope he has something left in the tank

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

I don't understand how attempting to sure up our weakest position is weak logic? please Explain

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[quote=GTripp0012;337082][URL="http://www.profootballreference.com/players/BrunMa00.htm"]Mark Brunell statistics - pro-football-reference.com[/URL]
[URL="http://www.profootballreference.com/players/BramCa00.htm"]Casey Bramlet statistics - pro-football-reference.com[/URL][/quote]

We all know 5 years ago MB was a good NFL qb. But I'm talking about TODAY. THE PRESENT.

If an NFL qb can't throw a 15 yard out then it's time to hang it up. And from what I saw he can't throw the ball with any velocity what so ever. I'm not the only one saying it. Some of the beat reporters that cover the team and watch all the practices are saying the same thing.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[quote=The Zimmermans;337133]I don't understand how attempting to sure up our weakest position is weak logic? please Explain[/quote]

It might be your opinion that the d-line is the weakest position... but actions speak louder than words and with the lack of moves along the d-line the Redskins coaches have spoken loud and clear that they don't agree with your opinion.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

not only is brunell currently ineffective....he is extremely painful to watch..not what I'm looking for in the Redskins future

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[QUOTE=The Zimmermans;337133]I don't understand how attempting to sure up our weakest position is weak logic? please Explain[/QUOTE]

Well first of all, because I think the staff believes with the development of the young DTs and the way Carter came along at the second half of last season the D-Line will be significantly improved.

Also, how about we look at it this way. Suppose a team had a terrible running game. Well on the one hand you could just get a new running back. Or you could say we have a good back but he needs protection up front-so let's get new linemen, or we have a good back but our receivers are no threat so the defense can stack the box-so let's get a deep threat at receiver than can draw a double team.

You follow?

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[quote=The Zimmermans;337136]not only is brunell currently ineffective....he is extremely painful to watch..not what I'm looking for in the Redskins future[/quote]

In case you missed it Campbell is the Redskins future.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[quote=firstdown;337088]First off ARE is only listed as the 2nd because that where he ended at last year which has been explained several times. Second you are basicaly saying that our coaching staff including Gibbs have no clue on how to coach a football team.[/quote]

Did I ever say the coaches had no clue how to coach?? NO! I just think they need to open up the competiton at several positions. Don't you??? Very few guys should be comfortable coming off a 5-11 season.

Do you remember how Eric Mangini handled the Jets last year? He didn't even tell anyone who his starting qb was until the end of pre-season. He basically opened up all positions and may the best man win. Sorry but I like that. There isn't all the BS politics. It's all about playing the best players.

1. Why is Brunell being handed the backup job coming off major shoulder surgery and a bad season where he couldn't throw a pass over 10 yards?

2. I like Rocky M. but it seems that he was just handed the job because of the pressure from the media. Didn't Marshall play that positon real well in 04? Why is he being punished for playing out of position?

3. Where is the competition at kicker??????????? Sushium hasn't earned the right not to have competition. He isn't David Ackers. Simply ridicules!

4. Why is Goldston being named the starter already?

5. Why in the world is Daniels being handed a job?? WTF has he done to earn that right?

6. Who are our two starting corners? Should Springs be handed a starting spots just cause he is the oldest? Hell no. Let the top 3-4 guys compete for the top two positions.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[quote=Mattyk72;337145]In case you missed it Campbell is the Redskins future.[/quote]

what was the point of that post?

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[quote=skinsfan69;337154]Did I ever say the coaches had no clue how to coach?? NO! I just think they need to open up the competiton at several positions. Don't you??? Very few guys should be comfortable coming off a 5-11 season.

Do you remember how Eric Mangini handled the Jets last year? He didn't even tell anyone who his starting qb was until the end of pre-season. He basically opened up all positions and may the best man win. Sorry but I like that. There isn't all the BS politics. It's all about playing the best players.

1. Why is Brunell being handed the backup job coming off major shoulder surgery and a bad season where he couldn't throw a pass over 10 yards?

2. I like Rocky M. but it seems that he was just handed the job because of the pressure from the media. Didn't Marshall play that positon real well in 04? Why is he being punished for playing out of position?

3. Where is the competition at kicker??????????? Sushium hasn't earned the right not to have competition. He isn't David Ackers. Simply ridicules!

4. Why is Goldston being named the starter already?

5. Why in the world is Daniels being handed a job?? WTF has he done to earn that right?

6. Who are our two starting corners? Should Springs be handed a starting spots just cause he is the oldest? Hell no. Let the top 3-4 guys compete for the top two positions.[/quote]


I think that there is a long way to go this preseason. There are a few jobs that are a no brainer as far as who the starter is, but not all. I think the coaches are experienced enough to evaluate the teams talent for the entire offseason/preseason and put the best player in each position for week one. The competition is ongoing, believe that.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;337062]No. I'm not saying he is the guy to turn anything around. All I'm saying is from what I saw just from two practices he looks better than Brunell and Palmer. Now I'm not saying he is a great QB or anything. Hell, he may suck. But the point I'm trying to make is why is it that so many guys on a 5-11 team have their positions nailed down? Can someone ask me why we have no competition at the back-up qb position? If we had any other coaching staff I bet there would be. [/quote]

Any coaching staff would be a bunch of morons to back up a green qb with an even MORE green qb, then round it off with another green qb.
We / the coaching staff, made the decision to make Campbell the starting QB. That decision has been set in stone. Now they need to surround him with MENTORS, not rookies.
I'm sorry, you can not, nor will not convince me that Bramlet is a better back up than Brunell, especially considering that Brunell is a former pro bowler and knows Saunder's system. The coaching factor alone makes him more valuable than Bramlet, not to mention the fact that Brunell is under contract and to release him would create a huge cap hit.
To make matters worse, you saw him for only 2 PRACTICES and think he's better? You can not assess ANYONE in 2 practices. And I seriously doubt you know better than all the NFL scouts that wanted nothing to do with Bramlet.

[quote]Also at WR. ARE, Lloyd and Thrash should all be battleling for the #2. No one on the roster has proven they can be a #2. But it's reported that it's ARE job. For what? Did Goldston show enough to be nailed down as the stater for the other DT opposite Griff? Hell no he didn't. So again that job should be open for competition.[/QUOTE]

Thrash? ARE and Lloyd have more talent than Thrash, if we give the #2 to thrash, might as well send Campbell out there naked. People need to use their head in making decisions, this is why Thrash will not be considered for the #2 spot. If ARE and Lloyd fail again, then we need a newcomer, not Thrash. You work on these players for a year and an offseason, you need to give them the chance.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;337154]Did I ever say the coaches had no clue how to coach?? NO! I just think they need to open up the competiton at several positions. Don't you??? Very few guys should be comfortable coming off a 5-11 season.

Do you remember how Eric Mangini handled the Jets last year? He didn't even tell anyone who his starting qb was until the end of pre-season. He basically opened up all positions and may the best man win. Sorry but I like that. There isn't all the BS politics. It's all about playing the best players.

1. Why is Brunell being handed the backup job coming off major shoulder surgery and a bad season where he couldn't throw a pass over 10 yards?

2. I like Rocky M. but it seems that he was just handed the job because of the pressure from the media. Didn't Marshall play that positon real well in 04? Why is he being punished for playing out of position?

3. Where is the competition at kicker??????????? Sushium hasn't earned the right not to have competition. He isn't David Ackers. Simply ridicules!

4. Why is Goldston being named the starter already?

5. Why in the world is Daniels being handed a job?? WTF has he done to earn that right?

6. Who are our two starting corners? Should Springs be handed a starting spots just cause he is the oldest? Hell no. Let the top 3-4 guys compete for the top two positions.[/QUOTE]

Well I can sum this up pretty easily.
Either you trust in the decades and decades of experience that Gibbs / Saunders / GW / Bugel bring to the table, or you don't. I know football, and I know it well, but I most certainly will bow to their knowledge over mine. They see these guys day in and day out, we do not. They know better than we do, plain and simple.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[quote=jsarno;337212]Any coaching staff would be a bunch of morons to back up a green qb with an even MORE green qb, then round it off with another green qb.
We / the coaching staff, made the decision to make Campbell the starting QB. That decision has been set in stone. Now they need to surround him with MENTORS, not rookies.
I'm sorry, you can not, nor will not convince me that Bramlet is a better back up than Brunell, especially considering that Brunell is a former pro bowler and knows Saunder's system. The coaching factor alone makes him more valuable than Bramlet, not to mention the fact that Brunell is under contract and to release him would create a huge cap hit.
To make matters worse, you saw him for only 2 PRACTICES and think he's better? You can not assess ANYONE in 2 practices. And I seriously doubt you know better than all the NFL scouts that wanted nothing to do with Bramlet.



Thrash? ARE and Lloyd have more talent than Thrash, if we give the #2 to thrash, might as well send Campbell out there naked. People need to use their head in making decisions, this is why Thrash will not be considered for the #2 spot. If ARE and Lloyd fail again, then we need a newcomer, not Thrash. You work on these players for a year and an offseason, you need to give them the chance.[/quote]
I agree with most of what you said but if Trash played 2nd WR last year we would have had more production from him. I'm not saying he has more talent than Lloyd but he could have done better than what LLoyd did last year. It is time for Lloyd to prove he belongs as the #2.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;337236]I agree with most of what you said but if Trash played 2nd WR last year we would have had more production from him. I'm not saying he has more talent than Lloyd but he could have done better than what LLoyd did last year. It is time for Lloyd to prove he belongs as the #2.[/QUOTE]

I absolutely agree that Lloyd needs to prove himself. But we have to remember a WR is only as good as his QB. Lloyd couldn't perform very well with a crappy Brunell, and a not so accurate Campbell.
So I disagree that Thrash would have performed better. It's not like ARE or Lloyd were dogging it, or dropping an abnormal amount of balls. Their misfortunes can be directly related to the misfortunes of the QBs.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[quote=skinsfan69;337154]1. Why is Brunell being handed the backup job coming off major shoulder surgery and a bad season where he couldn't throw a pass over 10 yards?[/quote]

[URL="http://youtube.com/watch?v=OHZn-aSc30k"]YouTube - Santana Moss taken it to the house[/URL]

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;337093]Maybe you are wrong in your assessment of the two old guys?

Not that I believe a youth movement is a bad thing, but holy crap if we keep Brunell as the backup and Jordan Palmer as the third stringer and let Collins go like most of us thought would happen on draft day (before Casey Bramlet did something totally meaningless and we anointed him), would anyone be unhappy?

After Campbell and Brunell, we really don't have anything, so I would personally let Palmer take the third spot, but I wouldn't really care if we put him on the practice squad and Collins got it one more year.

Remember when I asked you to name a backup worth having, and you threw Charlie Frye's name out there? I'm beginning to think that you would be OK with [I]anybody[/I] at QB as long as he's young. Imagine if we actually did make that move (Frye for Brunell and a pick). I mean, yeah the difference between him and Brunell could cost us a win or two this year (assuming MB is forced into action), but then you'd be all over the FO! "Why did we sign Fletcher! Smoot Sucks! We shouldn't have drafted Rogers! Should have kept Dockery!" Unwilling to admit that their actually could be a QB out there worse than Brunell. Charlie Frye, IMO, is the very definition of worse than Brunell.

Am I wrong here?[/QUOTE]


Your terribly wrong here, the fact that you want to possibly hitch the season to Brunell is flat out ridiculous, he's proven that he is inept at QB, the man is done, finished, washed up, and he was before we traded for him.

You are kind of comical though as you make excuse after excuse for Quinn and his fall off last year and lack of talent around him from the previous season, yet you are to tell me Frye had an actual legitimate team around him? Come on their horrible in all aspects in Cleveland starting from the coaches on down, you are going to make the point that Frye wouldn't be better served under Gibbs, and Saunders?

I will say it again, Brunell in 2 of the 3 seasons he has played for us has been as bad as a QB can possibly be, and that is what this team is being set up for if Campbell goes down.

I am tired of hearing about experience at backup, so long as Gibbs continues with Brunell this way we will never have it, I am sure Dan fouts has more knowledge than anyone we have on the staff with this offense perhaps we should pull him out of the booth and suit him up as a backup? No you say? Why? Because he is finished, he can no longer play, that's why! Just like Brunell, The job of a backup is to WIN games when called upon, Brunell has proven he can't. Who cares if he knows the offense it still translates into loses, allow a young guy to get the experience who knows he just might win some games in the process, it's not like it's never happened before. If Campbell goes down the season is done we are not going to win in the playoffs under Brunell and we will not be in the playoffs if Brunell plays the majority of the season. IMO Gibbs is still waiting on the miracle situation to justify Brunell and it's going to take something close to a miracle for that to ever happen!

We may not have a legitimate backup in any of these younger guy's we brought in this season the real question should be why haven't we seriously addressed that issue in some way, Palmer is a possible start in that direction but we should be much further along than we are, Bramlett who knows? I didn't see anything in europe to make me believe he's legit, but keeping Brunell around? We might as well put a uni on Sling'in Sammy to back up.

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;337239]I absolutely agree that Lloyd needs to prove himself. But we have to remember a WR is only as good as his QB. Lloyd couldn't perform very well with a crappy Brunell, and a not so accurate Campbell.
So I disagree that Thrash would have performed better. It's not like ARE or Lloyd were dogging it, or dropping an abnormal amount of balls. Their misfortunes can be directly related to the misfortunes of the QBs.[/QUOTE]

Well said!

Re: Report: Redskins Release Casey Bramlet
 

[quote=The Zimmermans;337165]what was the point of that post?[/quote]


To tell you that Campbell is the Redskins future.