Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d801c1644&template=with-video&confirm=true]Vick files plea in federal court, admits dogfighting[/url]


So, let me get this straight. MV financed the whole operation but didn't get any of the proceeds from fights his dogs won? Yeah right.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

And if he was the owner of this operation, isn't he just as guilty as the the people who did kill the dogs? MV is such a liar its not even funny. I can't believe the feds are letting him plead to such a bullshit charge after all they put into this case.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

"Last April, Vick and two co-defendants tested the fighting skills of dogs and the three agreed to kill six to eight dogs that did not perform well. All were killed by various methods that included hanging and drowning."

"Most of the Bad Newz Kennels operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick."

I'm pretty sure this is enough to get him a substantial NFL ban. He ran the operation. He is so silly rich he didn't need any gambling winnings. He was in it for the blood not the money. He doesn't come out looking good.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

Check this out guys. Vicks new jersey is selling out like crazy!!

[url=http://www.theonion.com/content/from_print/nfl_reports_strong_sales_of]NFL Reports Strong Sales Of Michael Vick's 2008 Jersey | The Onion - America's Finest News Source[/url]

*apologies if someone already posted this.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

I know, I know, its PFT and should be suspect. But, in difference to what I just heard on ESPN radio that said that [B]Michael Vick[/B] did NOT plea to gambling charges, PFT's blog host (whatever his name is) just posted that he has read the entire plea and [B]Vick admitted guilt to [B]EVERYTHING[/B]! Remember, even though PFT has issues, the guy is an attorney allegedly.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

Sorry, the link for those that care:

[url=http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm]ProFootballTalk.com -- The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet[/url]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

I agree dogfighting is despicable, but unfortunately the only people who know what happened at that ranch are those four guys charged. Vick has pleaded guilty, and will be punished for his actions. Is banning him for life really necessary? Vick will go to jail and be suspended by the NFL, and he will never be able to recoup what he once had. Seems like punishment enough to me, he'll forever be associated with dogfighting, but is the enemy Mike Vick or dogfighting?

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=memphisskin;343593]I agree dogfighting is despicable, but unfortunately the only people who know what happened at that ranch are those four guys charged. Vick has pleaded guilty, and will be punished for his actions. Is banning him for life really necessary? Vick will go to jail and be suspended by the NFL, and he will never be able to recoup what he once had. Its mighty convenient how people want to punish Vick, and he deserves every minute of jail time he gets. However, since none of us actually knows the depth to which he was involved, and the statement of facts that he signed doesn't specify his level of involvement, then its hard for me to digest the level of vitriol and anger that this case has brought out.

To me, it smells of something else...[/quote]

C'mon don't even try to toss out the race card.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;343594]C'mon don't even try to toss out the race card.[/QUOTE]

Matty, I'm not. But its difficult as a black man to not see things through that lens. I think MV is an idiot and what he did is disgusting. But to have him banned for life because of dogfighting? C'mon man.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

Attempting to justify this heinous (perhaps pathological) crime with thinly veiled racial implications is shameful

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=Hog1;343603]Attempting to justify this heinous (perhaps pathological) crime with thinly veiled racial implications is shameful[/QUOTE]

Never did I try to justify this crime.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=memphisskin;343593]I agree dogfighting is despicable, but unfortunately the only people who know what happened at that ranch are those four guys charged. Vick has pleaded guilty, and will be punished for his actions. Is banning him for life really necessary? Vick will go to jail and be suspended by the NFL, and he will never be able to recoup what he once had. Seems like punishment enough to me, he'll forever be associated with dogfighting, but is the enemy Mike Vick or dogfighting?[/quote]


Oh please dude that's bullshit. There's alot of people that know his level of involvement like his buddies that sang like birds, THE FEDS, and HIMSELF! He plead quilty becauce his dumb ass was!

NO RACE CARD NEEDED! I hope they hammer his ass to the full extent of the law.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan_nn;343606]Oh please dude that's bullshit. There's alot of people that know his level of involvement like his buddies that sang like birds, THE FEDS, and HIMSELF! I plead quilty becauce his dumb ass was!

NO RACE CARD NEEDED! I hope they hammer his ass to the full extent of the law.[/QUOTE]

I do too, and it appears that they will. But go after all dogfighters, not just Vick. I will never believe that he's the first or last professional athlete or celebrity involved in this admittedly heinous act. And I certainly don't believe everything in that indictment, the Tuskegee Airmen, Jena 6, INTELPRO, and a littany of other events have conditioned me to distrust the government. I'm not defending Vick, I am saying that the calls for him to be banned for life do smell of racism. There, no more thinly veiled calls, is that better?

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=memphisskin;343604]Never did I try to justify this crime.[/quote]

Originally Posted by [B]memphisskin[/B] [URL="http://www.redskinswarpath.com/locker-room/19381-breaking-news-vick-enter-guilty-6.html#post343593"][IMG]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/IMG][/URL]
[I]I agree dogfighting is despicable, [B]but unfortunately the only people who know what happened at that ranch are those four guys charged.[/B] Vick has pleaded guilty, and will be punished for his actions. [B]Is banning him for life really necessary?[/B] Vick will go to jail and be suspended by the NFL, and he will never be able to recoup what he once had. Its mighty convenient how people want to punish Vick, and he deserves every minute of jail time he gets. [B]However, since none of us actually knows the depth to which he was involved, and the statement of facts that he signed doesn't specify his level of involvement, then its hard for me to digest the level of vitriol and anger that this case has brought out.

To me, it smells of something else...[/B][/I]
[I] [/I]
[I]You did however come to his defense, and it appears suggest that something else is amiss? Perhaps racism? [/I]
[I]It's like this, MV has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt...........he's a bad guy. [/I]
[I]If Peyton Manning did this, he would be a bad guy. That's the way it should be. Black and white have no place here, only right and wrong. [/I]

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=memphisskin;343609]I do too, and it appears that they will. But go after all dogfighters, not just Vick. I will never believe that he's the first or last professional athlete or celebrity involved in this admittedly heinous act. And I certainly don't believe everything in that indictment, the Tuskegee Airmen, Jena 6, INTELPRO, and a littany of other events have conditioned me to distrust the government. I'm not defending Vick, I am saying that the calls for him to be banned for life do smell of racism. There, no more thinly veiled calls, is that better?[/QUOTE]

Paying the price for dogfighting is [URL="http://www.pet-abuse.com/profiles/2352/"]color blind[/URL]

I think that had Vick gone to trial then a lot of names, famous names, would be revealed and that wouldn't do any one any good. Vick might be taking the fall for a lot of people beyond himself but....life sucks.

I actually met several of the Tuskegee Airmen a few years back. That was pretty sweet

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

Let that man serve his year in prison, serve his YEAR suspension because it shouldn't be any more than that, I don't care if he gambled on dog fighting. Then watch him or don't when he plays QB for his new NFL team. He isn't radioactive, the only way that will happen is when all of the reporters speak about him as if he is. He is still Michael Vick, who is a hell of an athlete so someone will pick him up. No lifetime ban either, should we punish him for dog fighting for his entire life ? Let everyone protest but he will be back. Or at least he should be. He should not be banned for life, a one year suspension should suffice. That's my opinion on the matter.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;343613]Paying the price for dogfighting is [URL="http://www.pet-abuse.com/profiles/2352/"]color blind[/URL]

I think that had Vick gone to trial then a lot of names, famous names, would be revealed and that wouldn't do any one any good. Vick might be taking the fall for a lot of people beyond himself but....life sucks.

I actually met several of the Tuskegee Airmen a few years back. That was pretty sweet[/QUOTE]

Never said the punishment was based on color. The calls for him to be banned for life, uh yeah.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=memphisskin;343601]Matty, I'm not. But its difficult as a black man to not see things through that lens. I think MV is an idiot and what he did is disgusting. But to have him banned for life because of dogfighting? C'mon man.[/quote]

I think people are just fired up right now. Time will heal this wound a bit, but not completely.

People have very close relationships with their pets and this strikes a very serious nerve with alot of people. Like I said, over time I think this will heal some. Black or white I think people would be disgusted just the same.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=Hog1;343612]Originally Posted by [B]memphisskin[/B] [URL="http://www.redskinswarpath.com/locker-room/19381-breaking-news-vick-enter-guilty-6.html#post343593"][IMG]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/IMG][/URL]
[I]I agree dogfighting is despicable, [B]but unfortunately the only people who know what happened at that ranch are those four guys charged.[/B] Vick has pleaded guilty, and will be punished for his actions. [B]Is banning him for life really necessary?[/B] Vick will go to jail and be suspended by the NFL, and he will never be able to recoup what he once had. Its mighty convenient how people want to punish Vick, and he deserves every minute of jail time he gets. [B]However, since none of us actually knows the depth to which he was involved, and the statement of facts that he signed doesn't specify his level of involvement, then its hard for me to digest the level of vitriol and anger that this case has brought out.

To me, it smells of something else...[/B][/I]
[I] [/I]
[I]You did however come to his defense, and it appears suggest that something else is amiss? Perhaps racism? [/I]
[I]It's like this, MV has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt...........he's a bad guy. [/I]
[I]If Peyton Manning did this, he would be a bad guy. That's the way it should be. Black and white have no place here, only right and wrong. [/I][/QUOTE]

First, thanks for quoting a post that I actually was in the process of editing, seeing as how I wanted to actually read the statement of facts that Vick signed and not someone else's opinion of it. Once I read it, I edited my post. Never once did I defend him or say he was unfairly prosecuted because of his color. I came to his defense over the calls for a lifetime ban, which to me, a black man, smell of DWB and a littany of other problems that successful black men must deal with. Its how I see it, but its also cool of you to tell me that what I see is wrong and what you see is right. Anything the legal system does to him is the cost for breaking the law. Now, what the NFL does is completely arbitrary and up to Commissioner Goddell. But in the end, its not my call or yours, unless that's you Commish, in which case, can I send you a resume?

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

Must have misunderstood you.

But anyhow, I never understood why Vick has always been such a posterboy for racism. I mean even dating back to the days when all we talked about was how he wasn't nearly living up to his potential playing QB, there was all this talk of "You only say that because he's Black." What's up with that?

It's a shame we can't freely criticize him the way we can with just about any other QB without fear of retribution.

I don't know, maybe it's only here on this site (thank you ST21!) that I see this, but it seems kind of ridiculous.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;343617]I think people are just fired up right now. Time will heal this wound a bit, but not completely.

People have very close relationships with their pets and this strikes a very serious nerve with alot of people. Like I said, over time I think this will heal some. Black or white I think people would be disgusted just the same.[/QUOTE]

Matty I wholeheartedly agree with you. I guess I just wish people got this worked up over violence against women, or drunk driving. Its depressing to me that we seem to pick and choose our morality these days. Wrong is wrong and MV is all the way in the wrong. But society and the law dictates he gets a second chance, all I'm really trying to say is that he does deserve one. Guess it saddens me to find out that someone so talented can be so f'ng stupid. I don't have a pet, so I don't have the same level of outrage.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=memphisskin;343620]Matty I wholeheartedly agree with you. I guess I just wish people got this worked up over violence against women, or drunk driving. Its depressing to me that we seem to pick and choose our morality these days. Wrong is wrong and MV is all the way in the wrong. But society and the law dictates he gets a second chance, all I'm really trying to say is that he does deserve one. Guess it saddens me to find out that someone so talented can be so f'ng stupid. I don't have a pet, so I don't have the same level of outrage.[/QUOTE]

It all depends on what you mean by second chance really. Some would say playing again in the NFL is his second chance. Others would say playing in the NFL is simply a privilege, not any right he has. And that his second chance-as it were-is simply getting out of prison at a young age in life and being able to lead a free life.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

I believe he will get a 2nd chance once this situation has a few years to blow over. I agree that it's disappointing to watch someone fall from grace like this. It's such a waste of talent. Vick had the world in the palm of his hands and he's thrown it away over something incredibly stupid.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=memphisskin;343618]First, thanks for quoting a post that I actually was in the process of editing, seeing as how I wanted to actually read the statement of facts that Vick signed and not someone else's opinion of it. Once I read it, I edited my post. Never once did I defend him or say he was unfairly prosecuted because of his color. I came to his defense over the calls for a lifetime ban, which to me, a black man, smell of DWB and a littany of other problems that successful black men must deal with. Its how I see it, but its also cool of you to tell me that what I see is wrong and what you see is right. Anything the legal system does to him is the cost for breaking the law. Now, what the NFL does is completely arbitrary and up to Commissioner Goddell. But in the end, its not my call or yours, unless that's you Commish, in which case, can I send you a resume?[/quote]


I was listening to Michael Wilbon, who I do not always agree with, but I have much respect for.
He describes it thus. The media wants to interview the more controversial "leaders" in the black community as it will get more play. These opinions are generally not representative of the black community as a whole, but those of the minority, which noturally do more harm thatn good.
For what it's worth, Vick will pay for his sins with the Fed (as well he should). Beyond that, he should be afforded anything that any other ex-con should recieve. Nothing more or less.
THAT does not mean any person that wants him to burn in hell or anything else is a racist. It's sensitve stuff.
--Commissioner, THE Hog1

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;343622]It all depends on what you mean by second chance really. Some would say playing again in the NFL is his second chance. Others would say playing in the NFL is simply a privilege, not any right he has. And that his second chance-as it were-is simply getting out of prison at a young age in life and being able to lead a free life.[/QUOTE]

I like that line from Godell I lot more than the old "violent sport, violent men" line that used to permeate the NFL. I do think it's a privilege, however its sad to me that the Commissioner has to control the owners. As the writers of the checks, they've shown up til now that they will pretty much stomach any behavior as long as it helps them win ballgames or put butts in the seats. Maybe the only color that really matters is green...

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=SmootSmack;343613]
I actually met several of the Tuskegee Airmen a few years back. That was pretty sweet[/quote]

I figured you for more of a navy guy... oh come on, I'm just kidding.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[QUOTE=Hog1;343625]I was listening to Michael Wilbon, who I do not always agree with, but I have much respect for.
He describes it thus. The media wants to interview the more controversial "leaders" in the black community as it will get more play. These opinions are generally not representative of the black community as a whole, but those of the minority, which noturally do more harm thatn good.
For what it's worth, Vick will pay for his sins with the Fed (as well he should). Beyond that, he should be afforded anything that any other ex-con should recieve. Nothing more or less.
THAT does not mean any person that wants him to burn in hell or anything else is a racist. It's sensitve stuff.
--Commissioner, THE Hog1[/QUOTE]

Its unfortunate that in 2007 race is still such a sensitive and explosive topic. Mods, I'm sorry for injecting race into this discussion, as always it is the one topic in America that is sure to inflame passions.

I went to 6 games last year and the only colors that mattered to those 93,000 were burgandy and gold. I truly wish that we could discuss these things and deal with them, instead of pretending that they never happened. Clearly how each race processes the idea of race is different, and all sides have an opinion and are entitled to it as it is clearly an indicator of their experience. But this is a Redskins forum, I respect it as such, and will leave discussions of race for another time and place. Hail to the Redskins!

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

I still find it ironic that dogs that didn't have enough 'courage' to fight were brutally killed but the first chance vick has at sucking out and taking a plea deal he does. The details of the stories just make it worse. The fights were just part of it. The killings of dogs that didn't do well in 'test fights' is another. I hope that the judge sticks with his reputation as being a hard ass sticks it to vick. I hope he shatters that 12-18 month recommendation. I and many others will be upset unless he serves 4 years. Most won't be happy unless he spends many many more. Its unfortunate it is barred to 5 years. I really hope the judge uses his discretion.

Also good work on the lawyers part to get vick out of gambling charges so the nfl won't have a problem with that. How the f... can you convince anyone that he trained, killed, and fought dogs at HIS HOUSE and did not receive any of the money flowing in and did not gamble on his dogs. Disgusting.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

Here's the problem now. He is turning states evidence against other Kennels that are not known to the Federal Government as of yet. Hopefully this will not way the Judge to give him less than the recomended minimal sentence.

He will be working for the government. So now he is a Narc.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

As for it being a race issue. I'm not pointing anyone out but i am saying that there is two types of racism in this world, one is the traditional understanding of racism and the other is the people who cry racism at every chance that they get.

This case is getting a lot of publicity because it is a famous athlete who is being charged. It doesn't matter if it was peyton manning or mike vick.

The NAACP of atlanta spoke on vicks defense. I think that is stupid. Why not focus on more important things? See what happened when they spent there efforts on the Duke case. It divided much of the country and completely divided that region. That wasn't the white rich school is allowed to rape a black stripper senerio as it was played at to be. It is sad what happened to those students. I'm not black but i have many friends who are and i am just repeating what some of them have spoken to me about. There are more important issues out there than this damn dog fighting shit to worry about. This isn't a race issue at all so why even speak of it. This is a self proclaiming dog fighter. I have zero remorse. This is not a white, black, brown, yellow or purple issue. I don't follow much of this and i don't have a strong opinion but this is basically exactly what one of my friends, who does said. Why even start any of this racism talk. It doesn't belong here. I'm not saying its not existent in America but focus the attention where it is needed.

This is not directed at anyone at all. Just an opinion on some things that have been thrown around in other places, not just here. This was talked about on elliot in the morning and i was listening and talking to one of my friends about it at the same time.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;343675]Here's the problem now. He is turning states evidence against other Kennels that are not known to the Federal Government as of yet. Hopefully this will not way the Judge to give him less than the recomended minimal sentence.

He will be working for the government. So now he is a Narc.[/quote]

haha, if he was a dog someone like mike vick would have shot him for his lack of courage.

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=BigSKINBauer;343677]haha, if he was a dog someone like mike vick would have shot him for his lack of courage.[/quote]

If Vick was a dog and someone like MV owned the falcons, they may have shot him after a couple of shitting seasons the last 2 years...... Is that to harsh?

Re: BREAKING NEWS: Vick to Enter Guilty Plea
 

[quote=BigSKINBauer;343676]As for it being a race issue. I'm not pointing anyone out but i am saying that there is two types of racism in this world, one is the traditional understanding of racism and the other is the people who cry racism at every chance that they get.

This case is getting a lot of publicity because it is a famous athlete who is being charged. It doesn't matter if it was peyton manning or mike vick.

The NAACP of atlanta spoke on vicks defense. I think that is stupid. Why not focus on more important things? See what happened when they spent there efforts on the Duke case. It divided much of the country and completely divided that region. That wasn't the white rich school is allowed to rape a black stripper senerio as it was played at to be. It is sad what happened to those students. I'm not black but i have many friends who are and i am just repeating what some of them have spoken to me about. There are more important issues out there than this damn dog fighting shit to worry about. This isn't a race issue at all so why even speak of it. This is a self proclaiming dog fighter. I have zero remorse. This is not a white, black, brown, yellow or purple issue. I don't follow much of this and i don't have a strong opinion but this is basically exactly what one of my friends, who does said. Why even start any of this racism talk. It doesn't belong here. I'm not saying its not existent in America but focus the attention where it is needed.

This is not directed at anyone at all. Just an opinion on some things that have been thrown around in other places, not just here. This was talked about on elliot in the morning and i was listening and talking to one of my friends about it at the same time.[/quote]

I actually posted almost the EXACT same thing on another website.

Why can't the NAACP focus on something actually worth putting their 2 cents in? And this is coming from a Black chick no less.

I hate how the media was portraying it as the Black people vs the White animal lovers. I've been working with animals for going on 2 years, and to me, Vick deserves jail time at the least. It seems as if anytime a Black person does something wrong and gets prosecuted SOMEHOW "the man" is trying to stick it to them. Or vice versa, where a Black person is the victim and the perp gets off/doesn't get charged/etc. And then, "the man" is racist for not trying hard enough if at all. Which in some cases, is true. But in this case, its definitely not (to me at least).

So I agree that this whole playing the race card thing is played out. I dunno why some people try so hard to put a division in between races again. I know I'm not living in a utopia where everyone is gonna get along with everyone else.

But. I dunno. I feel like I'm ranting now. lol

"Can't we all just, get along?"