Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;352258]Although A.J. Smith has done a nice job picking players in the draft and free agency, he's an idiot for pushing for Marty's firing. How the hell does a coach who's team went 14-2 get fired AND then replaced by Norv?[/quote]

The owner had to make a choice and he made the wrong one. Plus, how do you get rid of Drew Brees?

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;352268]The owner had to make a choice and he made the wrong one. Plus, how do you get rid of Drew Brees?[/QUOTE]

You get rid of him when you have a good replacement...in case you missed it, Brees is kinda sucking this year.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;352268]The owner had to make a choice and he made the wrong one. Plus, how do you get rid of Drew Brees?[/QUOTE]

That was because Marty and Brees didn't get along. And that makes even less sense. Keep a coach who admittedly doesn't get along with the general manager, only to get rid of what might have become a franchise quarterback because he doesn't get along with the head coach, who was destined to be fired anyway.

For some reason, I don't have a lot of faith in Philip Rivers. I think Brees will wind up to be the better quarterback.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;352275]You get rid of him when you have a good replacement...in case you missed it, Brees is kinda sucking this year.[/QUOTE]

In case YOU missed it, this "year" is only two games old. Brees lit it up last season. Don't worry, the Saints will get back on track. Brees will ultimately prove to be a more complete quarterback than Rivers.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;352276]That was because Marty and Brees didn't get along. And that makes even less sense. Keep a coach who admittedly doesn't get along with the general manager, only to get rid of what might have become a franchise quarterback because he doesn't get along with the head coach, who was destined to be fired anyway.

For some reason, I don't have a lot of faith in Philip Rivers. I think Brees will wind up to be the better quarterback.[/QUOTE]

I don't think they're in bad shape with Rivers. Plus that trade got them Kaeding and Merriman as well, right?

Actually, who I really like is the Chargers #3 QB, Charlie Whitehurst. I think he's got a lot of potential. Probably won't get to realize it in San Diego, though

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;352278]In case YOU missed it, this "year" is only two games old. Brees lit it up last season. Don't worry, the Saints will get back on track. Brees will ultimately prove to be a more complete quarterback than Rivers.[/QUOTE]

Ummm, Rivers took a team to a 14-2 record last year, and 22 tds and only 9 ints is pretty impressive. So while Brees did have 4 more passing td's last year, he also had 2 more int's. (oh and 4 fewer wins)
I'm not saying Brees sucks, I think he's a good qb...the question was presented about why do you let go of a QB like Brees...well when you have a suitable replacement. End of story.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;352282]Ummm, Rivers took a team to a 14-2 record last year, and 22 tds and only 9 ints is pretty impressive. So while Brees did have 4 more passing td's last year, he also had 2 more int's. (oh and 4 fewer wins)
I'm not saying Brees sucks, I think he's a good qb...the question was presented about why do you let go of a QB like Brees...well when you have a suitable replacement. End of story.[/QUOTE]

You can not honestly say that Rivers took a team to a 14-2 record last year. Now if you wanted to say that Rivers was the startig QB on a 14-2 team last year that greatly benifited from LaDainian Tomlison, that would be better. Everyone knows that LT and his 38 TD's and a dominating D is why that Charger team went 14-2 not because of the arm of Rivers...

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

Because you are not going to pay for 2 High caliber QB's when you can only start 1. They went with youth and cut ties with the older who was comming off of a shoulder surgery.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588;352342]You can not honestly say that Rivers took a team to a 14-2 record last year. Now if you wanted to say that Rivers was the startig QB on a 14-2 team last year that greatly benifited from LaDainian Tomlison, that would be better. Everyone knows that LT and his 38 TD's and a dominating D is why that Charger team went 14-2 not because of the arm of Rivers...[/QUOTE]

Obviously it's a TEAM sport, and you only win if your TEAM is good. That being said, Rivers was the head of the team. Are you saying they would have went 14-2 with Brunell at the helm for instance? They were 14-2 because of Rivers...they were 14-2 because of LT...they were 14-2 because of the D.
BTW- Where did you get 38 tds? It was 31 (he also had 2 passing td's but they don't count towards the record) but even if you count those two it's 33.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;352349]Because you are not going to pay for 2 High caliber QB's when you can only start 1. They went with youth and cut ties with the older who was comming off of a shoulder surgery.[/QUOTE]

Another good point.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;352350]Obviously it's a TEAM sport, and you only win if your TEAM is good. That being said, Rivers was the head of the team. Are you saying they would have went 14-2 with Brunell at the helm for instance? They were 14-2 because of Rivers...they were 14-2 because of LT...they were 14-2 because of the D.
BTW- Where did you get 38 tds? It was 31 (he also had 2 passing td's but they don't count towards the record) but even if you count those two it's 33.[/QUOTE]

My bad, but we are both wrong. He had 28 rushing TD's and 3 receiving TD's, and that is according to NFL.COM ([url=http://www.nfl.com/players/ladainiantomlinson/profile?id=TOM683150)]NFL.com - Official Site of the National Football League[/url]. So that is 31 TD's. Sorry, I was trying to remember off the top of my head, next time I will check up on my stats before I post them. And you are right it is a team sport. As for Brunell being at the helm in SD and still going 14-2, I don't know and neither does anyone else. That is nothing more than speculation. Offensively LT is a QB's dream come true he is good enough to take the pressure off of the QB. Oh, and since you did bring Bruenll up, look at how good Portis made him look in 2005. I am sorry Rivers is not the one that gets the credit for last years team, anyone will tell you that if they didn't have LT, Rivers couldn't handle the load himself. It's the same situation that Eli is in up in New York with him loosing Tiki...

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

Eli hasn't looked Bad though. The offense isn't losing them games it is their Defense costing them.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;352359]Eli hasn't looked Bad though. The offense isn't losing them games it is their Defense costing them.[/QUOTE]

So far this year Eli is looking ok but as the season goes on I do think that he is going to miss Tiki in his backfield...

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;352350]Obviously it's a TEAM sport, and you only win if your TEAM is good. That being said, Rivers was the head of the team. Are you saying they would have went 14-2 with Brunell at the helm for instance? They were 14-2 because of Rivers...they were 14-2 because of LT...they were 14-2 because of the D.
BTW- Where did you get 38 tds? It was 31 (he also had 2 passing td's but they don't count towards the record) but even if you count those two it's 33.[/QUOTE]

Also, Rivers wasn't asked to throw 4 td's in a game or to win the game. He was a manager of the game last year and he was asked not to make mistakes and make sure the ball got from the center, to LT and let LT do the rest. I am not trying to cut down Rivers, but he was not the reason why the Chargers did that good last year.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[quote=Redskins8588;352363]So far this year Eli is looking ok but as the season goes on I do think that he is going to miss Tiki in his backfield...[/quote]

I think that [URL="http://www.nfl.com/players/profile?id=00-0022770"]Derrick Ward[/URL] is doing a hell of a job filling in for Tiki. He already has over 200 all purpose yards and a TD through 1.5 games. He may not be Tiki, but he is doing a good job averaging over 6 yards per rushing attempt and 4 rececptions a game.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588;352358]My bad, but we are both wrong. He had 28 rushing TD's and 3 receiving TD's, and that is according to NFL.COM ([url=http://www.nfl.com/players/ladainiantomlinson/profile?id=TOM683150)]NFL.com - Official Site of the National Football League[/url]. So that is 31 TD's. Sorry, I was trying to remember off the top of my head, next time I will check up on my stats before I post them.[/quote]

How are we both wrong? I was not wrong.
[i]BTW- Where did you get 38 tds? [b]It was 31[/b] (he also had 2 passing td's but they don't count towards the record) but even if you count those two it's 33.[/i]

[quote]And you are right it is a team sport. As for Brunell being at the helm in SD and still going 14-2, I don't know and neither does anyone else. That is nothing more than speculation. Offensively LT is a QB's dream come true he is good enough to take the pressure off of the QB. Oh, and since you did bring Bruenll up, look at how good Portis made him look in 2005. I am sorry Rivers is not the one that gets the credit for last years team, anyone will tell you that if they didn't have LT, Rivers couldn't handle the load himself. It's the same situation that Eli is in up in New York with him loosing Tiki...[/QUOTE]

I think you missed my point. It's a combination of all of them. Sure LT is the man, and had a great year, but without that line, he would have never came close.
I'm not saying Rivers should get all the credit at all. Just that it's a team sport. He was part / HEAD of the team. That means something.
Eli needs more talent around him. He's a very good QB, but needs help to take it to the next level. Look at his performance last week (4 td's) and still got the loss. He needs a good team around him.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;352370]I think that [URL="http://www.nfl.com/players/profile?id=00-0022770"]Derrick Ward[/URL] is doing a hell of a job filling in for Tiki. He already has over 200 all purpose yards and a TD through 1.5 games. He may not be Tiki, but he is doing a good job averaging over 6 yards per rushing attempt and 4 rececptions a game.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, his stats do look good but they have not played a D that impressed me yet. I mean Dallas D did not look good to me when they gave up 35 points to the Giants, and I am still not sold on GB's D, not yet...

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588;352366]Also, Rivers wasn't asked to throw 4 td's in a game or to win the game. He was a manager of the game last year and he was asked not to make mistakes and make sure the ball got from the center, to LT and let LT do the rest. [b]I am not trying to cut down Rivers, but he was not the reason why the Chargers did that good last year.[/b][/QUOTE]

Again, he was a big PART of it. You can't deny that.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588;352363]So far this year Eli is looking ok but as the season goes on I do think that he is going to miss Tiki in his backfield...[/QUOTE]

Who wouldn't miss a hall of famer in the backfield?

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;352371]How are we both wrong? I was not wrong.
[i]BTW- Where did you get 38 tds? [b]It was 31[/b] (he also had 2 passing td's but they don't count towards the record) but [SIZE="5"][B]even if you count those two it's 33[/B][/SIZE].[/i][/QUOTE]

You did say 31 TD's but you said that they were rushing TD's and then you ADDED 2 passing TD's to give him 33TD's, when, like[B][U] I posted[/U][/B], he had [SIZE="5"][B][U]28 RUSHING TD's AND 3 PASSING TD'S[/U][/B][/SIZE], giving him a grand total of 31 TD'S. That is how you are wrong, he did not have 33TD's, he had 31 total TD's. I may have ben off by more than you but the fact is you still were wrong.

I am sorry I am human and I messed up my stats, but unlike you I can ADMIT when I am wrong...

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;352375]Who wouldn't miss a hall of famer in the backfield?[/QUOTE]

You really think he is a hall of famer?!?!

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

I do not think that he performed at that high of a caliber for long enough to be considered for induction. Had he played his entire career like he played his under Coughlin then it would be a different story. The truth is he fumbled too much early on in his career.

He had 55 career rushing TD's and 53 Fumbles. He lost 22 of them. He also had 12 receiving TD's. But like I said he didn't blossom until his last 3 or 4 seasons. [url=http://www.nfl.com/players/tikibarber/profile?id=BAR025952]Tiki Barber[/url]

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;352379]I do not think that he performed at that high of a caliber for long enough to be considered for induction. Had he played his entire career like he played his under Coughlin then it would be a different story. The truth is he fumbled too much early on in his career.[/QUOTE]

I was just looking over his stats and he didn't have a 1000 yard season until his 4th year in the league (2000). Most HOF backs make their presence known instantly. Not to mention that he is 17th on the all-time rushing list and not even on the all-time TD list. Also, on the rushing list there are the likes of Curtis Martin, The Bus, Faulk and Dillion that are all ahead of him... A HOF player I do not think that Tiki is one. Like you said if he played his whole career like the way he ended it then yes...

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588;352376]You did say 31 TD's but you said that they were rushing TD's and then you ADDED 2 passing TD's to give him 33TD's, when, like[B][U] I posted[/U][/B], he had [SIZE="5"][B][U]28 RUSHING TD's AND 3 PASSING TD'S[/U][/B][/SIZE], giving him a grand total of 31 TD'S. That is how you are wrong, he did not have 33TD's, he had 31 total TD's. I may have ben off by more than you but the fact is you still were wrong.

I am sorry I am human and I messed up my stats, but unlike you I can ADMIT when I am wrong...[/QUOTE]

Dude, are you freakin blind? Read it again. [B]He had 31 td's.[/B] (IF YOU COUNT THE 2 PASSING TD'S IT'S 33, BUT THEY DON'T COUNT!!) Said NOTHING about rushing TD's.

Here it is again, please feel free to read it in it's entirety!!!!
[i]BTW- Where did you get 38 tds? [b][SIZE="5"]It was 31[/SIZE][/b] (he also had [b]2 passing[/b] td's but they [b]don't count towards the record[/b]) but even if [b]you[/b] count those two it's 33.[/i]
I wasn't counting them, I was saying even if YOU count them, it's 33, but as you can clearly see (well as the rest of the world can clearly see) I said he had 31 td's. Not 31 rushing td's, not 31 receiving td's, not 31 passing td's.

So unless you seriously have a seeing problem, your next post should be an apology. (although I won't hold my breathe since you seem not to be able to read plain text)

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588;352378]You really think he is a hall of famer?!?![/QUOTE]

I think he is, but it will be close. He is 10th all time in all purpose yards, and had 67 td's, which is pretty good. Plus he was dominant for 5 straight years.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[quote=jsarno;352384]I think he is, but it will be close. He is 10th all time in all purpose yards, and had 67 td's, which is pretty good. Plus he was dominant for 5 straight years.[/quote]


But he had no Championships. They cannot induct Tiki without first inducting Monk. That would be a slap in the face.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588;352382]I was just looking over his stats and he didn't have a 1000 yard season until his 4th year in the league (2000). Most HOF backs make their presence known instantly. Not to mention that he is 17th on the all-time rushing list and not even on the all-time TD list. Also, on the rushing list there are the likes of Curtis Martin, The Bus, Faulk and Dillion that are all ahead of him... A HOF player I do not think that Tiki is one. Like you said if he played his whole career like the way he ended it then yes...[/QUOTE]

You make good points against it, but with the exception of Faulk, none of those players were a threat to catch the ball like Barber was. I don't think what he did when he wasn't as starter has anything to do with it. Look at Steve Young...arguably the best QB ever (rating wise he is the best ever) and he didn't make his presence known. Even Tom Brady was a back up. It happens.

ps- you names sure fired first ballot Hall of Famers (except maybe Dillon, but he should make it anyway). Barber will be a question mark, but I think he'll get in because he was such a big double threat.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;352385]But he had no Championships. They cannot induct Tiki without first inducting Monk. That would be a slap in the face.[/QUOTE]

It's already a slap in the face to Monk. In my mind he should have been a no brainer hall of famer.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[quote=jsarno;352387]It's already a slap in the face to Monk. In my mind he should have been a no brainer hall of famer.[/quote]

I meant to say "another slap in the face". Honestly though I cannot see Tiki getting in for a long time if at all.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=angryssg;352388]I meant to say "another slap in the face". Honestly though I cannot see Tiki getting in for a long time if at all.[/QUOTE]

He might not. I think he'll be one of those fringe guys. I'm not sure, but not many good players retired last year, so Barber might not have much competition when he's up for it.

Every time Monk doesn't get in, it's a slap in the face to him, the fans, and every quiet, decent, kind person everywhere. It's a huge slap in the face really.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

How can Tiki be a hall of famer when he didn't maintain HOF caliber play for more than 4 or 5 years? Had he played 2 or 3 more years and padded his stats a little, then maybe, but there's no way he gets in. To steal a line from Peter King, "Hall of Very Good, not great."

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

yeah tiki could've had a case if he'd hung around for a few more years and racked up some stats, but he shouldnt go. he wasnt elite by any means... and the comparison to young is a little skewed... Young was a backup to a HOFer and when he got his shot he consistantly performed.

remember, when coughlin got the job he brought in Ron Dayne to have a competition with tiki... not because he wanted to motivate tiki, and not to be the number 2 back, but because they didn't believe tiki could be a featured back. Then, he takes the coach that made him into a pro bowler, retires early (announcing it in mid-season) publicly hanging him out to dry... and writes a book about how he was the reason coughlin had a job and if coughlin wasn't there he'd still be playing. another classy move by a giants player.

If you can make a case for Tiki, you should go ahead and make a case for Lavar... he had 4 good years too.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

I didn't feel like reading this whole thread, but is it just me or did the Cowboys look pretty bad despite the points the Dolphins just handed them?

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;352422]I didn't feel like reading this whole thread, but is it just me or did the Cowboys look pretty bad despite the points the Dolphins just handed them?[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you, yeah. I watched most of that game and the cowboys offense (when barber is in the backfield) seemed to really click. I hate to say it but romo made some impressive throws and it seems like he depends on TO enough that I'd be a bit surprised if there is the major melt down that we've all been hoping for.

At the same time, their defense isn't all that good. Trent Green looked like he needs to ride off into the sunset, because it seemed like a half way decent QB could have at least kept that game close.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

I thought Barber played well, but didn't Romo miss like half his throws? The ones that were off were WAY off. The Dolphins dropped at least 3 INTs.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;352422]I didn't feel like reading this whole thread, but is it just me or did the Cowboys look pretty bad despite the points the Dolphins just handed them?[/quote]

I think it was a little of both. I think the Fins were playing them tight, then imploded down the wire.

I don't think it was an impressive victory at all.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[quote=jsarno;352275]You get rid of him when you have a good replacement...in case you missed it, Brees is kinda sucking this year.[/quote]

Well I'm going off his whole career. Yes he's not playing well this year but the previous two he did play very well. I'm just not sold on Rivers. You want to talk about sucking?

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;352424]I thought Barber played well, but didn't Romo miss like half his throws? The ones that were off were WAY off. The Dolphins dropped at least 3 INTs.[/QUOTE]Well, he did only complete about 48% of his passes, so that's not great.
Now that I think about it, I really only watched the second half, when their offense was clicking, so I can't really say how he looked in the first half.

I'm retarded. :(

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;352244]Pats are that good. And Norv is that bad[/quote]


AJ Smith is going to be kicking himself for a long time for letting Shott go. This guy goes 14-2 and you dump him for Norv Turner?

Classic case of arrogance if you ask me.

Re: Around the NFL (Week 2)
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;352427]Well, he did only complete about 48% of his passes, so that's not great.
Now that I think about it, I really only watched the second half, when their offense was clicking, so I can't really say how he looked in the first half.
[B]
I'm retarded.[/B] :([/quote]

And how. :D

Seriously though, it looked easy because the Dolphins were giving them a thirty yard field to work from.