Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

What I can't stop thinking about is his analogy of hip hop to the KKK.

That's just wrong all the way around. Even the KKK would find that offensive.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

My guess to why Whitlock feels so strongly against hip hop is - he must have been wronged (probably gotten beaten up) by a youngster(s) that fit his description of what hip hop is (and maybe he was right).

That's where prejudicism and discrimination usually comes in. When you have a disdain for a group of people for what an individual or several people have done to you.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[QUOTE=warriorzpath;385840]He talks about not perpetuating and re-enforcing these stereotypes, but then he does it when he speaks and in his article.

I actually think that violence is less promoted in hip hop. I think he still holds on to what he has seen in the old 90's gangster movies with the bloods and crips and all of that. Don't get me wrong those things still go on, but not as prevalent and not to the extent as those movies seem to show.

It may be a little insensitive to do this, but let me compare this to the media's perception of Sean Taylor and what Sean Taylor seemed to be to his friends, teammates, and family. That's the same thing you have with the perception of hip hop, or rather misconception and misundertanding of. Your gonna believe what you want to believe, but that doesn't mean it's true.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you warriorzpath, hip hop doesn't promote violence, but only because hip hop is not some monolithic institution. There are some rappers that do glorify violence, but that's not an issue for a Redskins forum.

As it relates to the issue at hand, none of this does anything to stem the tide of black on black crime.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

Violence is an American problem. Point blank period. Hip Hop is thuggish because America is thuggish. Ask any other country. Hip hop is blamed for every thing wrong in the Black community because certain individuals from the black community who call themselves leaders have no answers for the problems in the black community. Also these so called leaders are not man enough to accept responsibility for their failed leadership. Step down I say. Hip Hop was born in violent communities i.e. Bronx 1970's. Hip Hop's stated purpose from day one was to give gang members a medium for artistic expression, an alternative to violence (breakdancing, grafiti etc.) Hence the thug influence on hip hop. It's purpose was for thugs in a thug environment (i.e switch blades, west side story, grease). The inhabitants of that environment understand Hip Hop does not cause violence. Violence reflects the environment from which Hip Hop was born. An environment created by failed leadership and made worse with the introduction of crack (i.e. Reaganomics, Iran-Contra). Like Mike Wilbon said in his article get out the best way you can from such an environment, for some it takes longer. If a kid is born in a war zone do you blame him for being a warrior? What once was hidden in the black community became seen, Hip Hop aired the dirty laundry (i.e. keep it real). The so called leaders (i.e. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and company) had been lying to the media, white america, and Hip Hop exposed them. Now they are irrelevant and fighting for relevance. So now they have an answer for the black communities problems. After all these years (since the 60's). Hip Hop is keeping us from solving the black communities problems is what false leaders say. How weak minded does Whitlock think the black community is? Watch a video and then go sell crack? I guess it had nothing to do with being broke and having no economic development in the black community. W's answer for stopping violence in Third World countries with all the oil is economic development, hence forth your solution. Ask W, economic development eases violence. Unemployed youths join gangs and crime. I have heard Condi say it a many a night.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[QUOTE=joethiesmanfan;385877]Violence is an American problem. Point blank period. Hip Hop is thuggish because America is thuggish. Ask any other country. Hip hop is blamed for every thing wrong in the Black community because certain individuals from the black community who call themselves leaders have no answers for the problems in the black community. Also these so called leaders are not man enough to accept responsibility for their failed leadership. Step down I say. Hip Hop was born in violent communities i.e. Bronx 1970's. Hip Hop's stated purpose from day one was to give gang members a medium for artistic expression, an alternative to violence (breakdancing, grafiti etc.) Hence the thug influence on hip hop. It's purpose was for thugs in a thug environment (i.e switch blades, west side story, grease). The inhabitants of that environment understand Hip Hop does not cause violence. Violence reflects the environment from which Hip Hop was born. An environment created by failed leadership and made worse with the introduction of crack (i.e. Reaganomics, Iran-Contra). Like Mike Wilbon said in his article get out the best way you can from such an environment, for some it takes longer. If a kid is born in a war zone do you blame him for being a warrior? What once was hidden in the black community became seen, Hip Hop aired the dirty laundry (i.e. keep it real). The so called leaders (i.e. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and company) had been lying to the media, white america, and Hip Hop exposed them. Now they are irrelevant and fighting for relevance. So now they have an answer for the black communities problems. After all these years (since the 60's). Hip Hop is keeping us from solving the black communities problems is what false leaders say. How weak minded does Whitlock think the black community is? Watch a video and then go sell crack? I guess it had nothing to do with being broke and having no economic development in the black community W's answer for stopping violence in Third World countries with all the oil is economic development, hence forth your solution. Ask W, economic development eases violence. Unemployed youths join gangs and crime. I have heard Condi say it a many a night

[QUOTE]I guess it had nothing to do with being broke and having no economic development in the black community.[/QUOTE]


I think this is what he's getting at, making excuses to commit crimes. I take it all these rappers have a lot of money? Why do they continue to break the law after financial success? And lastly I feel blaming crime on lack of economic value is a slap in the face to every kid who grows up in that type of enviroment and doesn't go on to be a criminal, I bet there are more people in a poor economic situation that don't become criminals than those that do? Which should tell you there are other means in which you can succeed without becoming public enemy number one.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

quote:
Which should tell you there are other means in which you can succeed without becoming public enemy number one.

I agree like being an artist and expressing how you feel and selling it to the masses.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

Bronx 1970's. Hip Hop's stated purpose from day one was to give gang members a medium for artistic expression, an alternative to violence (breakdancing, grafiti etc.) Hence the thug influence on hip hop.

Making a gangster rap record does not make you a criminal.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

With failed leadership what are the alternatives. The community created an alternative. Something the failed leaders did not do.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[QUOTE=joethiesmanfan;385899]
Making a gangster rap record does not make you a criminal.[/QUOTE]

It doesn't make you a responsible citizen either. I don't know... there are many lucrative career fields out there that capitalize off of what some would call immorality (highly subjective term). I think gangsta rapper is one of them. If you're making your living through promoting violence and criminal activity, you're not a good person, in my eyes (if that matters). Still, I have to agree with your overall point, gangsta rap/hip hop music/culture is not the responsible party for violence among young people, civic leadership is. When you are the/a leader of a group of people, and that group of people is in a non-improving situation, you are at fault. That's thing with being in charge, it makes you responsible. I'd love to see a strong black leader that was truly devoted to improving the situation for young people. And I'm a white dude... I'm damn sure I don't know anything about the situation comparatively but there just has to be soooo much wasted potential. How many fantastic futures are being discarded because there is no one to show these young people the way?

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

So much wasted potential. So much, an that is the point. Each person will have their own opinion about what is moral and what is not. If you get rich making records and you improve your family's condition. In my opinion you don't have to apologize to anyone. If Hip Hop is glorifying violence you could say MTV is glorifying homosexuality. You may not think homosexuality is wrong but some people do. You can nit pick anything. Making gangster rap records is not a crime.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

No you don't have to apologize, no one does, but you sure don't have to feel great about making a living out of perpetuating stereotypes and thuggish behavior. And personally I couldn't agree more about MTV...

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

The state of society today. You have to be rich in America to make a difference on anything. Step one is get rich. Step two, make changes. The Kennedy's made their money illegally shipping liquor during prohibition. Son becomes president. That is how this country works. Wanna change something, you have got to be rich. You have to have resources.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

But bleed my question to you is how should people act? Like bleed? What images do you portray? Is that even important? To me to each his own I have enough trouble being me.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

See I think that "to each his own" is what's wrong here. No one, and I mean NO ONE, wants to be held accountable anymore. People need to start to understand that our actions as individuals effect us as a whole. No, I'm not arbiter of what is right and wrong but there have to be standards to which we are held. I respect your view point, I just don't agree with it. Part of my reason for discussing this issue so much today is that I have had some in-person conversations on this subject with friends of mine and no one has any answers, just defense mechanisms. It seems like white people like me are afraid to talk about it because they think they'll be branded as racist or not in-touch or whatever. I guess I'm just frustrated with this country because I feel like we're headed for some really bad times and no one's going to stop it from happening.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

Peace man. Next time something happens Whitlock will say hiphop mentality. Wow can I live? I don't make my living dragging Sean Taylor's name through the mud. Sean Taylor was guy to look up to. A modern day John Wayne.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[QUOTE=joethiesmanfan;385937]Peace man. Next time something happens Whitlock will say hiphop mentality. Wow can I live? I don't make my living dragging Sean Taylor's name through the mud. Sean Taylor was guy to look up to. A modern day John Wayne.[/QUOTE]

Neither do I. We're all pissed off because ST was a great guy and was trying to improve his life, which may have led to his death. It's fucked up.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

I agree no one is held accountable anymore. Jails are full I think alot of people are being held accountable. The thugs are being held accountable for everything that is wrong. I think that is another point. Blame everything on HipHop, but Whitlock is not accountable for anything? He playing sides in the blame game and tarnishing Sean's memory. He ashamed of the hood. I'm glad Hip Hop reminds the world something is wrong here. This is what happens. Post appocalyptic culture of mine. Peace. Holla later bled.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

Later. Good talking to you.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;385662]Not to be rude but this is getting hijacked. If we start in on the politics then we'll get WAY off topic.[/quote]

You are rude, however, and a shallow reading such as yours is not appreciated. You see the name of a political figure in a post and knee jerk your way into a foolish hypothesis that a thoughtful post is about politics. The topic is not just Sean Taylor here, but the cultural conditions that make such a hideous crime likely. I cited many aspects of the failures of our society, corrupt politicians being one.

What do you think Whitlock is doing in his column? My post is my take on the subject he introduces. It's your post that is way off topic.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

I think Sean was a leader by example which I love. In order to lead people they have to respect you. No one is gonna follow a sissy. Except another sissy. Sean was a leader Whitlock is not. The black community wants strong leaders. That is who we gonna follow. Look at who the kids look up to tough mofos, and that is how it is whitlock. The kids look up to and who the women lookup, strong black men. I admit someyoung punks wanna be thugs make everybody look bad. Stop trying to pencil whip Sean Whitlock.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[QUOTE=Crazyhorse1;385945]You are rude, however, and a shallow reading such as yours is not appreciated. You see the name of a political figure in a post and knee jerk your way into a foolish hypothesis that a thoughtful post is about politics. The topic is not just Sean Taylor here, but the cultural conditions that make such a hideous crime likely. I cited many aspects of the failures of our society, corrupt politicians being one.

What do you think Whitlock is doing in his column? My post is my take on the subject he introduces. It's your post that is way off topic.[/QUOTE]

Let me put it this way. Every time Bush or Clinton is brought up on this site, it seems like right away a Right vs. Left arguement breaks out. That was my point, that there's a lot of touchy subjects being discussed and we all have to be careful. If that's rude, that's rude.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[QUOTE=Crazyhorse1;385656]a moron has lead us into a murderous and elective war complete with cluster bombs and torture, previously thought unthinkable[/QUOTE]

I was just saying that I thought every Republican member of the board was going to be all over this. Obviously since I was the only one to comment on it, I was wrong. Everything else in your post, I agreed with. I think if you read through this whole thread you'll see that.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy;385950]I was just saying that I thought every Republican member of the board was going to be all over this. Obviously since I was the only one to comment on it, I was wrong. Everything else in your post, I agreed with. I think if you read through this whole thread you'll see that.[/QUOTE]

Sometimes some things aren't worth responding to though

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

Everyone should just be held accountable for their own actions as individuals. And like someone has already posted - just lead by example. If you see a problem, take a proactive approach and do something, something little, anything - just as long as you are doing something.

About whitlock - he is being praised for sparking this discussion and I think Riggins even called him an activist (I am a fan of Riggins, by the way). No way is this guy an activist. Activists do spark discussions - I do not disagree with that - but I perceive activists sparking a cause in a positive direction not in complaints and negativity. Also, activists take a stand on an issue and help guide everyone in the right direction (especially by leading by example in his own actions).

Nothing about his article is inspiring. I think I heard a caller on the riggins show say that whitlock just causes more contention and conflict- I have to agree.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;385948]Let me put it this way. Every time Bush or Clinton is brought up on this site, it seems like right away a Right vs. Left arguement breaks out. That was my point, that there's a lot of touchy subjects being discussed and we all have to be careful. If that's rude, that's rude.[/quote]

You make an excellent point. I should have included Clinton as a President who has damaged the moral stature of the government, as has the current Congress on both sides of the aisle.

I believe in the trickle-down theory of corruption and meanness. Not showing respect for others or morality or law starts at the top and trickles on down to where the real dying is done.

Do I believe that characters like Nixon and Johnson and Kennedy and Reagan contribute to negative cultural dynamics that cause gang bangers and bad-boy rappers who want to kill cops and each other.

Yes, I do.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

SLAM! has some thoughts on this as well.

[url=http://slamonline.com/online/2007/11/why-the-sean-taylor-issue-is-important-to-slam/]SLAM ONLINE | » Why the Sean Taylor issue is important to SLAM[/url]

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;385913]So much wasted potential. So much, an that is the point. Each person will have their own opinion about what is moral and what is not. If you get rich making records and you improve your family's condition. In my opinion you don't have to apologize to anyone. If Hip Hop is glorifying violence you could say MTV is glorifying homosexuality. You may not think homosexuality is wrong but some people do. You can nit pick anything. Making gangster rap records is not a crime.[/quote]
Amen and it should not be a crime.

If we got rid of Hip hop and gangster rap...Nothing would change.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=SmootSmack;385951]Sometimes some things aren't worth responding to though[/quote]

Cheap comment, based on nothing, offering nothing, dissing an honest and valid insight of a fellow Redskin fan and a much older and more experienced man in a serious discussion after an unbearable tragedy. Nice work. I have a fifteen year old who would love to talk to you. How many friends did you have killed in Nam? or raped children have you had who failed to find justice in court?

How many kids do you have in Iraq? I tell you what. If you don't think my posts are worth responding to, try not responding when I post.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=Crazyhorse1;386033]Cheap comment, based on nothing, offering nothing, dissing an honest and valid insight of a fellow Redskin fan and a [B]much older and more experienced man[/B] in a serious discussion after an unbearable tragedy. Nice work. I have a fifteen year old who would love to talk to you. How many friends did you have killed in Nam? or raped children have you had who failed to find justice in court?

How many kids do you have in Iraq? I tell you what. If you don't think my posts are worth responding to, try not responding when I post.[/quote]Dear god. Why do all your arguments seem to boil down to being [U]older[/U] and [U]wiser[/U] than everyone else here? Is that either necessary or relevant?

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[QUOTE=Crazyhorse1;386033]Cheap comment, based on nothing, offering nothing, dissing an honest and valid insight of a fellow Redskin fan and a much older and more experienced man in a serious discussion after an unbearable tragedy. Nice work. I have a fifteen year old who would love to talk to you. How many friends did you have killed in Nam? or raped children have you had who failed to find justice in court?

How many kids do you have in Iraq? I tell you what. If you don't think my posts are worth responding to, try not responding when I post.[/QUOTE]

Well I just had one of my best friends killed in Afghanistan if that counts for anything. But, I think you missed the point of my post entirely. I'd explain but I figured someone older and more experienced wouldn't need any sort of explanation.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

Yeah, CrazyHorse, I think SS's comment was direct at me for responding to the political element of your post. Why are you so defensive? Everybody here has their own take and no one is attacking you.

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

[quote=GTripp0012;386034]Dear god. Why do all your arguments seem to boil down to being [U]older[/U] and [U]wiser[/U] than everyone else here? Is that either necessary or relevant?[/quote]

To say that my arguments "boil down" to anything figuratively means that their supposed content evaporates and is worth nothing. That is disrespectful, if you intended to say it. However, you probably didn't. Your statement, in that it implies I've indicated to am older and wiser than anyone else here, is disrespectful of what I actually implied-- that I am more "experienced" than "most" of the people here, which is true.

You appear then to be disrespectful of the truth. Does your last statement mean to ask if my experience matters? If so, yes. Of course, experience matters.

Or, are you asking if "bringing up" my experience is relevant. If so, yes. Of course, it is, if I relate the experience. Otherwise, no. What are you asking in your post?

Re: Jason Whitlock column on Taylor
 

Wow, this thread now sounds like a presidential debate. Lots of quote marks, mischaracterization, and accusations.

Good thing we weren't discussing, you know, the death of a beloved player, or anything.