Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

I'm not convinced that the red zone problems are necessarily due to the plays that are being called. When you get down there, especially inside the 10, the windows are tighter and the amount of time you have to get rid of the ball is less. Defenses are not going to allow you sit there for 4 or 5 seconds and scan the endzone. I think Campbell needs to make quicker reads.

Also, SmootSmack was talking about the differences between now and 2005 as far as red zone efficiency goes and I think a play that we used a lot that year that is a real help in opening things up is that halfback pass. I think they ran that just about every game down the stretch that season. Even if it doesn't connect, it forces the dbs to play more cautious and opens up the run. I think that if Gibbs were having a big say in the red zone we would be seeing more of that particular play.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;389693]Personally I don't think it was a big deal that Gibbs didn't know about the 10 men salute to Taylor. According to what I've read it was something that wasn't finalized until the night before the game. GW pretty much has full autonomy over the defense, so if he felt it wasn't critical to communicate this to Gibbs... who the F cares?

But I guess if you want to pile on...[/quote]

No one wants to "pile on".

Who the F cares? Nothing should happen on the field of play during a regular season game without the head coaches knowledge. He has to have full comprehension of what to expect each play of the game.

With that type of thinking it only lends credence that Gibbs is simply a sideline figurehead and that Williams and Saunders are making the decisions, and Gibbs is supposed to roam the sidelines in his HOF jacket for show.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=flashalexb;389363]An article by CBS sportsline that talks about their oppinions on Joe Gibbs.

[URL="http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10514290/rss"]National Football League - CBSSports.com[/URL]

They bring up some valid points.[/quote]


No they don't,look I realize this is not my team and I'm a visitor but as I said on and other thread I'll give you Coughlin and we'll take Gibbs in a heartbeat!!!

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

he shouldnt even be on the sideline for the bears game. hopefully little dan will promote gregg williams (who will actually yell at a player, and not say they played their guts out), instead of going elsewhere for a coach.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Jesse E. Timmons;389738]he shouldnt even be on the sideline for the bears game. hopefully little dan will promote gregg williams (who will actually yell at a player, and not say they played their guts out), instead of going elsewhere for a coach.[/quote]


???:nono:

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

yes, it is time for Joe to go. The team is in its 3rd losing season in 4 years. WE have not progressed at all since he came here. we are the same organization we were before he got here. Over pay FA, fail to pay OUR draft picks, trade away picks like they are poison. He has not even progressed, forget the team. he still makes the same mistakes. Clock management, conservative game planning. He always says he doesnt live on past success, well that is exactly why he is still here. Danny will not fire him, so Joe will have to step down. Frankly, I dont want him moving into a VP position either. He is not a talent evaluator. He is a coach. Look at how he has built this team. He has small speed receivers (remember the smurfs?) a speed running back, athletic TE. This team is actually built for a spread it out offense throw it more than run it type game plan. Not the ball control stuff Joe likes to play. I realize the last few weeks we have started throwing the ball more, but I am looking at an overall thing here. Plus, losing 6 games this year when having a 4th quarter lead!! that is on the coach. Players have to play, but when you are sitting on the ball and giving other teams opportunities to win at the end, you will probably come up short majority of the time. Nothing has changed, we are the 3rd or 2nd worst franchise in the NFL since 1999. that is ridiculous.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

With the way the injuries keep piling up and of course Taylor's death, I'm not sure if any coach could have done any better this year.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

Mentioned on last night's game:

"Gibbs has coached 16 of the last 27 seasons for the Redskins. In the years he was not the coach, the Redskins had ZERO playoff appearances."



Yes, he has taken us to the playoffs in his return and would have last year and still might this year despite devastating injuries to key players both years.

He still has it.

Do you realize that only Vince Lombardi and Bill Belichick have better playoff winning percentages? If we can get there, he can take us the rest of the way.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=#56fanatic;390548]Plus, losing 6 games this year when having a 4th quarter lead!! that is on the coach. .[/quote]

Turnovers and missed tackles/coverages on big plays are the coaches fault? Ok...if you say so.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Buster;390561]Mentioned on last night's game:

"Gibbs has coached 16 of the last 27 seasons for the Redskins. In the years he was not the coach, [B]the Redskins had ZERO playoff appearances[/B]."



Yes, he has taken us to the playoffs in his return and would have last year and still might this year despite devastating injuries to key players both years.

He still has it.

Do you realize that only Vince Lombardi and Bill Belichick have better playoff winning percentages? If we can get there, he can take us the rest of the way.[/quote]

Actually it's 1 playoff appearance.

1999.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

I want to give credit to the coaching staff for last nights game...I think they did a great job with the play calling (realized that running wasn't working and not crawling into a shell trying to keep the lead- having faith in collins) and time management (no issues). well done.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

Maybe the key to success is one day of practice each week.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;390563]Actually it's 1 playoff appearance.

1999.[/quote]
Oh yeah, lost to the Bucs...

That's what I get for trusting that broadcast crew. :spank:

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Buster;390591]Oh yeah, lost to the Bucs...

That's what I get for trusting that broadcast crew. :spank:[/quote]

I think they did say 1

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Buster;390562]Turnovers and missed tackles/coverages on big plays are the coaches fault? Ok...if you say so.[/quote]


seriously, the conservative play calling - playing for field goals, running and punting away only to have the defense to hold off a team to win a game.

my point is watching teams that win consistantly they execute their offense at the end of games, they dont just sit on the ball. what sums up our team and coach is "we dont play to win, we play not to lose!" that doesn't work in todays NFL with teams able to score quickly. as we have seen in some of our 4th quarter losses. I do believe in my post that i said players have to play and make plays, I understand that, but coaches have to be able to put the players in positions to make those plays, and put us in positions to win games. I dont think Joe has been able to that. If he had, we would not be going through the 3rd losing season of his 4th season. i just dont get why people think Joe is doing his job. I think it is because of his name and past success, it has to be, because he hasing done anything since returning. Spurrier coached the team to the same record he did last season. 5-11 is 5-11 it doesn't matter who is on the sideline.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=#56fanatic;390607]seriously, the conservative play calling - playing for field goals, running and punting away only to have the defense to hold off a team to win a game.

my point is watching teams that win consistantly they execute their offense at the end of games, they dont just sit on the ball. what sums up our team and coach is "we dont play to win, we play not to lose!" that doesn't work in todays NFL with teams able to score quickly. as we have seen in some of our 4th quarter losses. I do believe in my post that i said players have to play and make plays, I understand that, but coaches have to be able to put the players in positions to make those plays, and put us in positions to win games. I dont think Joe has been able to that. If he had, we would not be going through the 3rd losing season of his 4th season. i just dont get why people think Joe is doing his job. I think it is because of his name and past success, it has to be, [B]because he hasing done anything since returning.[/B] Spurrier coached the team to the same record he did last season. 5-11 is 5-11 it doesn't matter who is on the sideline.[/quote]

2005 didn't count?

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

neither!

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;390556]With the way the injuries keep piling up and of course Taylor's death, I'm not sure if any coach could have done any better this year.[/quote]

Sorry, but I am a member of the club that believes that the plague of nagging injuries can be attributed to Gibbs.

By taking on the "player friendly" coach approach last off-season and allowing players to do their own off-season conditioning without a mandatory monitored off-season training program, players were not in the best shape they could have been in when they reported for camp and the regular season.

None suffered "devastating" injuries, just those nagging groin, hammy's and sprains. In other words the types of injuries that are minimized exponentially when a player is in better shape. I.E. participates in a structured, monitored off-season program.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;390622]Sorry, but I am a member of the club that believes that the plague of nagging injuries can be attributed to Gibbs.

By taking on the "player friendly" coach approach last off-season and allowing players to do their own off-season conditioning without a mandatory monitored off-season training program, players were not in the best shape they could have been in when they reported for camp and the regular season.

[B]None suffered "devastating" injuries[/B], just those nagging groin, hammy's and sprains. In other words the types of injuries that are minimized exponentially when a player is in better shape. I.E. participates in a structured, monitored off-season program.[/quote]

None?

Guess you forget about Jansen getting his ankle snapped or last night with JC getting rolled up on. Or Rogers shredding his knee, or Thomas tearing a muscle. Not sure what conditioning was going to do for those guys.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

Joe Gibbs became the coach of the Redskins just at the time that I was "discovering" the awesomeness of the NFL. He made me a Redskin fan, and the 4 SB appearances and 3 trophies cemented my unyielding loyalty to the team, no matter what the record may be.
I felt like a little kid on Christmas day when it was announced that he was returning to the sideline, visions of past glory came rushing to the forefront of my mind. As he did the first time around, he inherited a underperforming, disappointing team. I had every reason to believe that he would turn things around and get the franchise back to it's former level of success. 2004 was disappointing, but who really cares about that, it was his first year back and I wasn't really expecting all that much from the Skins. 2005 was great, running off 5 straight wins to make the post season and winning a playoff game gave me every confidence that the Redskins were "back." The offseason following that year reinforced my optimism, adding key players in the right places. I remember the talking heads on ESPN, particularly Mike Golic, praising the team's free agent moves and ranking their offense and defense in the top 5 during preseason speculation.
2006 and 2007 have been very disappointing and eye opening. Mismanagement of timeouts, indecision at crucial moments in games, underperformance by supposed "star" players, injuries coupled with poor play from backups, all have me shaking my head in frustration and wondering if the return of Joe Gibbs is really the best thing for this franchise.
It is to be expected, that as head coach and team president, with a 5 year contract, that Joe would build a solid foundation, improve the on-field production, and leave the organization in better shape than he found it upon his return in '04. In my analysis, that is not the case. While I applaud the addition of players like Portis, Randle-El, Thomas, Rabach, Fletcher, and the drafting of Taylor, Cooley, Rodgers, Landry, and Campbell - they have not brought the level of success that I, and just about all of us, expected. Squandering draft picks to get folks like Lloyd and Duckett have hurt the long term development of the organization. While I do not entirely place the blame for these bad moves on Joe's shoulders, the moves were made with his approval, if not his outright desire for them.
Should Gibbs step down at the end of the season? Maybe. He has earned the right, in my book, to see it through to the end, but at the end of his contract the Redskins will be no better than when he returned, and that is HUGELY DISAPPOINTING. In that regard, his return has been a failure. Will he be fired? Never. The Danny does not have the stones to do that.
This organization, with brief interludes in '99 and '05 has been in disarray for 16 years, and it will take more than a head coach to fix it.

If you are still reading this, then I applaud your patience. Thanks for taking the time.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;390609]2005 didn't count?[/quote]


if one playoff trip in 4 seasons is success then I guess he has done something. To me, 1 trip in 4 seasons isn't what I call success and yearly progression. Its funny how some accept that as progression. 1 trip on 4 years, 2 in almost 10 years. That is not very successful to me. I dont want to settle for that, and frankly i dont think the majority of redskins fans do either. I want us to be fighting for playoffs every year, like the pats, colts, eagles, seahawks ect. thats success.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=#56fanatic;390661]if one playoff trip in 4 seasons is success then I guess he has done something. To me, 1 trip in 4 seasons isn't what I call success and yearly progression. Its funny how some accept that as progression. 1 trip on 4 years, 2 in almost 10 years. That is not very successful to me. I dont want to settle for that, and frankly i dont think the majority of redskins fans do either. I want us to be fighting for playoffs every year, like the pats, colts, eagles, seahawks ect. thats success.[/quote]

Woah, don't get ahead of yourself here. You said that Gibbs hasn't done anything since returning, I simply pointed out that he has in fact done something.

I never equated 2005 with success or progress.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;390609]2005 didn't count?[/QUOTE]

Why do people point to 2005 as some beacon of achievement? Yes, we won 5 straight and a playoff game but in the scheme of his return that's the equivalent to a blind squirrel finding a nut. That's an anomoly to the rest of the time he's been back..

Even with that streak he's still under .500 for his return, has an older team in worse cap shape than what he took over, other than that stretch has not won more than 2 games in a row, has had at least a 3 game losing streak each year, has not improved sideline/time/game management (see timeout gaffe last week) and has lost [B][I][U]15 [/U][/I][/B]games where the team has had a 2nd half lead..

Look, I love Gibbs as much as the next guy, was a huge fan during Gibbs 1.0, was crushed when he retired and elated when he came back but let's be real, he's not getting it done this time around and we're no better than we were when he took over..

I'm not trying to complain in the glow of last nights win (although it may seem as such) but even with that we're a game below .500 this year and out of the playoffs (as it stands now).. That's not progress nor what we should expect from a Hall of Fame coach..

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;390664]Woah, don't get ahead of yourself here. You said that Gibbs hasn't done anything since returning, I simply pointed out that he has in fact done something.

I never equated 2005 with success or progress.[/quote]


I can see this is going to go on and on. You put 2005 as a question, yes or no? if you are saying 2005 was not a success, then he has done absolutely nothing. The team will be in no better position if he leaves this year or next that what it was before he got here. We all hoped that Joe would step in and stop some of Danny's needless spending, bad roster moves, and Joe has done none of that. We are still carrying more dead money than anyone in the NFL, highest payroll in NFL history and still fielding 5-11 teams. Joe has embrased this new found free agency that he didn't have before.

Question : what do you feel joe has done in his 4 years that would be labled as success? that is a serious question, not being sarcastic. Maybe you will bring a point up that I have not thought about or fail to see.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

Nevermind, I was making a very simple point, guess you missed it.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Paintrain;390670]Why do people point to 2005 as some beacon of achievement? Yes, we won 5 straight and a playoff game but in the scheme of his return that's the equivalent to a blind squirrel finding a nut. That's an anomoly to the rest of the time he's been back..

Even with that streak he's still under .500 for his return, has an older team in worse cap shape than what he took over, other than that stretch has not won more than 2 games in a row, has had at least a 3 game losing streak each year, has not improved sideline/time/game management (see timeout gaffe last week) and has lost [B][I][U]15 [/U][/I][/B]games where the team has had a 2nd half lead..

Look, I love Gibbs as much as the next guy, was a huge fan during Gibbs 1.0, was crushed when he retired and elated when he came back but let's be real, he's not getting it done this time around and we're no better than we were when he took over..

I'm not trying to complain in the glow of last nights win (although it may seem as such) but even with that we're a game below .500 this year and out of the playoffs (as it stands now).. That's not progress nor what we should expect from a Hall of Fame coach..[/quote]


you and I are on the same page. for some reason people here want to say year in and year out we are headed in the right direction. We are stuck in neutral as far as I can see. 2 playoffs in 10 years!! that is joke if you want to be lumped into the elite....wait good teams of the NFL. We are lumped in with the Browns, Texans, group. We are not a good team from top to bottom, including the front office. Joe has not done anything since being here. I am right with you on everything you say, but we will get blasted, be prepared.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;390673]Nevermind, I was making a very simple point, guess you missed it.[/quote]


I was asking a serious question, i wanted to hear your answer. seriously. what do you think Joe has done in 4 years that would be a considered a success.
I am not trying to be a smart ass, i truely do want to see your opinion.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about when I say there are people that don't allow others to be fans. We'd lost four games in a row and suffered the death of one the best players the leagues has seen in a long long time. And then we finally win, and hold onto our glimmer of hope for a playoff or at the very least a strong finish to the year and a winning record.

Look big picture I know we have issues that need to be addressed. I also know that we have made significant strides in several areas both on and off the field (I'm done pointing them out). But what is so wrong with just enjoying the game and enjoying a win? Why does every game (win or lose) have to be followed by this same damn "conservative play-calling, 2005 was a fraud" discussion?

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;390682]This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about when I say there are people that don't allow others to be fans. We'd lost four games in a row and suffered the death of one the best players the leagues has seen in a long long time. And then we finally win, and hold onto our glimmer of hope for a playoff or at the very least a strong finish to the year and a winning record.

Look big picture I know we have issues that need to be addressed. I also know that we have made significant strides in several areas both on and off the field (I'm done pointing them out). But what is so wrong with just enjoying the game and enjoying a win? Why does every game (win or lose) have to be followed by this same damn "conservative play-calling, 2005 was a fraud" discussion?[/quote]


the thread is called Should joe go, nothing about last nights game? This discussion started well before last nights game. This has absolutely nothing to do about last nights game. has nothing to do with anyone being a fan or letting people be fans. This was a question asked and we all simply responded. Turst me, I was at the bar until 1 celebrating the win. I can seperate the enjoyment of winning and addressing what I feel is a less than average coaching staff.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;390682]

Look big picture I know we have issues that need to be addressed. I also know that we have made significant strides in several areas both on and off the field (I'm done pointing them out). But what is so wrong with just enjoying the game and enjoying a win? Why does every game (win or lose) have to be followed by this same damn "conservative play-calling, 2005 was a fraud" discussion?[/quote]



Some people aren't happy unless everyone around them are miserable.

Give Vince Lombardi these injuries and bad luck and he'd do no better than Joe Gibbs has.

I guess people want Spurrier or Schottenheimer back. Hey, I bet Norv Turner will be looking for a new job in 2008... Oh those glory days.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

I know when the thread began. I just think this discussion could have been given a rest for at least a day.

Call me crazy, but I miss the days of coming to the site to just celebrate a win. We can bitch and moan tomorrow. Why can't we just enjoy today?

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=#56fanatic;390693]the thread is called Should joe go, nothing about last nights game? This discussion started well before last nights game. This has absolutely nothing to do about last nights game. has nothing to do with anyone being a fan or letting people be fans. This was a question asked and we all simply responded. Turst me, I was at the bar until 1 celebrating the win. I can seperate the enjoyment of winning and addressing what I feel is a less than average coaching staff.[/quote]

So after celebrating a win 3 days after a funeral and 4 days after their last game, in a game where Campbell, Portis, Smoot, Cooley, Thomas were all injured in...you come home and post that the coach should be fired.

I wish I had such a clear-thinking mind...what's your secret? The beer?

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Buster;390696][B]So after celebrating a win 3 days after a funeral and 4 days after their last game, in a game where Campbell, Portis, Smoot, Cooley, Thomas were all injured in...you come home and post that the coach should be fired.[/B]

I wish I had such a clear-thinking mind...what's your secret? The beer?[/quote]

LOL gotta love it

:doh:

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;390695]I know when the thread began. I just think this discussion could have been given a rest for at least a day.

Call me crazy, but I miss the days of coming to the site to just celebrate a win. We can bitch and moan tomorrow. Why can't we just enjoy today?[/quote]


thats another thread. I'll post my celebritory comments there

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

Loyalty and past achievements only goes so far.

Hell,bring Petibone back for all I care as long as we win games.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Buster;390696]So after celebrating a win 3 days after a funeral and 4 days after their last game, in a game where Campbell, Portis, Smoot, Cooley, Thomas were all injured in...you come home and post that the coach should be fired.

I wish I had such a clear-thinking mind...what's your secret? The beer?[/quote]


why is it people can't handle the truth. I just dont understand why I get blasted because I feel Joe hasn't done anything worth note since being here. I have asked people to give me an opinion on what they think Joe has done, and no one has offered what they think he has done that is a success. 1 playoff in 4 years isn't something to say we are in the elite teams of the NFL. I dont want to settle for 1 playoff every 5 years. I dont see where this team has progressed in 4 years. I am sorry I dont drink the cool-aid all the time, but dont rag on a guy who doesn't drink from the same fountain. I am stating what I see, what most people see. We are not very good. and I am tired hearing about injuries. That is crap. of the 7 games we lost, 6 we had half time leads, if not 4th quarter leads in the majority of those 6. If the injuries were that devistating we wouldn't have even been in most of those games.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Buster;390696]So after celebrating a win 3 days after a funeral and 4 days after their last game, in a game where Campbell, Portis, Smoot, Cooley, Thomas were all injured in...you come home and post that the coach should be fired.

I wish I had such a clear-thinking mind...what's your secret? The beer?[/quote]



what the hell does that have to do with anything? I can't celebrate a win. I guess when we were stinking it up with spurrier, Norv, Petibone, marty you never celebrated, then said they should gone the next year. I highly doubt it.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;390625]None?

Guess you forget about Jansen getting his ankle snapped or last night with JC getting rolled up on. Or Rogers shredding his knee, or Thomas tearing a muscle. Not sure what conditioning was going to do for those guys.[/quote]

Of course I was discounting last nights injury to JC. Hope is OK by the way.

What about Portis, Moss, ARE and even Taylor (prior to the tragedy)? They all had a nagging "tweak" that landed them on the injury report. Seemed like every week the injury reported read like a "who's who" of the Washington Redskins.

How many times did we see. "pull", "strain" or "sprain" on the injury report this season? You have to admit, it was more than MOST teams in the NFL. And those little "naggers" are a direct result of conditioning.

I think most may agree that possibly HALF or even a little more of the injuries could have been minimized with an off-season program.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=#56fanatic;390719]what the hell does that have to do with anything? I can't celebrate a win. I guess when we were stinking it up with spurrier, Norv, Petibone, marty you never celebrated, then said they should gone the next year. I highly doubt it.[/quote]

It's just funny that you say you were "celebrating the win", yet your first postgame comment was saying Gibbs should be fired.

After all the shit that's gone down the past 10 days, I don't know about you but last night's win was a huge freaking relief. And for at least a few days now I'm going to forget about our problems and just bask in the glow of the W.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;390724]It's just funny that you say you were "celebrating the win", yet your first postgame comment was saying Gibbs should be fired.

After all the shit that's gone down the past 10 days, I don't know about you but last night's win was a huge freaking relief. And for at least a few days now I'm going to forget about our problems and just bask in the glow of the W.[/quote]

Amen! :)