Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

It's my contention that Joe Gibbs' abilities with regard to finding and developing youth, or making sound personnel decisions that help the team are just not his strong suits. That some people here are beside themselves when faced with this opinion is amusing to say the least.

The 'success' of individual players doesn't help us much when the records they've compiled add up to a losing record. So yes, I have a hard time trying to fathom how successful you've been at building a team when you are faced with the possibility of three losing seasons out of four.

Now, if you want to talk about "potential", fine. Potentially, Campbell, Landry, Alexander, Heyer, can be enshrined in the Hall of Fame one day. They also have the potential to flame out and go the way of Timmy Smith. Who knows? That's why I say Jason Campbell is still a question mark. Cooley has done real good, and McIntosh (assuming he comes back full strength in '09) is coming along nicely. But again, going back to the questionable personnel moves -- they were all twice the price.

Ugh. We can go on and on with this. Let's just say I'm ecstatic that we have all of our 2008 draft picks and I hope Gibbs doesn't F them up.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;394877]And regarding Williams and the job he has done, I think we have too quickly forgotten about last season and how disastrous it was due to just a few key injuries.

This year we've been hit even harder injury wise and the ship hasn't been knocked too far off course. I think that's a testament to the added depth in the back 7 and the development of guys like Rocky, Montgomery, and Andre Carter being a steady pass rushing threat.[/QUOTE]

I beg to differ that we were 'hit harder' on defense this year.. Last year Springs missed almost the entire season, Marshall was banged up all year and ineffective, Griffin missed significant time, Prielou (sp) was gone all season.. This year, aside from Taylor (which is significant obviously), we've been without Rogers (no bog loss IMO) for half the season, Washington for 3 games, Smoot for one and who else? We've been relatively healthy on defense this season..

If anything we can credit Gibbs for addressing the depth issues we had in the offseason but the bloom is off the Grilliams rose for me..

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;394790]Mark Brunell, Clinton Portis, and the defense were all significantly responsible for our 5 game winning streak at the end of the 2005 season that got us into the playoffs.

This shouldn't even be debatable.[/QUOTE]

edit,wrong info posted

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=Bill B;394697]But Matty one thing about the cap is that if you continually restructure contracts you put further pressure on the caps in future years - kind of reminds me of the US and the way we deal with the deficit. Yes we can continue to print money and buy our way out of debt for the current year but eventually the US is going to have to pay the piper and deal with the huge debt. So relating to the Skins - yes the Skins can continue to restructure contracts to get under the cap but wouldn't it be nice to not have to constantly have to do this and free up the teams abillity to sign better depth players?[/QUOTE]

good post

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=htownskinfan;394891]not debatable? I beg to differ,Brunell didnt even play in one of those wins,he did have 1 good game out of the 4 he played,4 tds against dallas and a whopping 163 yrds passing,the other 3 games were a combined 2 tds,4 ints,419yrds passing.If you think 1 decent game out of 5 is significant then I guess it isnt debatable,but since he only actually played in 4,that averages out to 4 good games in a 16 game schedule,that sounds about right for brunell[/quote]

No. He played in all those wins. He did come out of the Giants game after a cheap shot to his knee but the Redskins were already winning the game. Your attempt to deceive your fellow Warpathers and to undermine the cause has been duly noted. Everyone needs to get behind Coach Gibbs and the Redskins or suffer verbal humiliation at my hands.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=ptracy20;394769]I really hope you guys are kidding. Regardless of what happens this year Joe needs to go. I much as I respect him for what he has done in the past he still needs to go. Poor clock management, poor play calling, poor use of time outs and challenges that cost us timeouts have all been a problem in his four years. Look at this collectively over 4 years not just when we win a couple of games in a row.[/QUOTE]

good post

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;394893]No. He played in all those wins. He did come out of the Giants game after a cheap shot to his knee but the Redskins were already winning the game. Your attempt to deceive your fellow Warpathers and to undermine the cause has been duly noted. Everyone needs to get behind Coach Gibbs and the Redskins or suffer verbal humiliation at my hands.[/QUOTE]

wasnt trying to decieve,didnt read the fine print,you are correct,he did play,I apologize for the misprint,but I still think Brunell sucks and will never be convinced otherwise

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=htownskinfan;394895]wasnt trying to decieve,didnt read the fine print,you are correct,he did play,I apologize for the misprint,but I still think Brunell sucks and will never be convinced otherwise[/quote]

If you throw all your spiritual support behind Our Beloved Redskins at this crucial hour, you may find forgiveness. Now is the acceptable time for all Redskins apostates to throw themselves upon the altar of forgiveness and swear allegiance to This Team. This is the your last chance. Do it Now!

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;394782]Well, as I've been saying for months (if not years). I think the only person who should decide if he comes back is Gibbs himself. Personally, I want him back because he's probably the biggest reason (next to my brother) that I'm a fan of the team and he's the best thing to ever happen to the franchise. But I also don't think he should feel he owes the fans anything or has to prove anything to anyone. So if he chooses to step aside, I'm ok with that. He's earned the right to do whatever he wants.[/QUOTE]

I agree with 99 percent of this post,I do think Joe has earned the right to finish out this contract if he wants,I dont agree with Joe extending his contract by 3 yrs because of past success,it should be based on his success the 2nd time around

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=mheisig;394588][IMG]http://extensibletech.com/images/funny/forks.jpg[/IMG][/quote]
I agree.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

Joe will definitely be back next season as Head Coach. Unsure about the following year. I think he might stay on as head coach and fade his operations to mostly AL and Gregg. I think he's already done that in a big way. I think we'll be able to keep most of the team together thru next season and perhaps the next if we get to playoffs this year.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=Paintrain;394888]I beg to differ that we were 'hit harder' on defense this year.. Last year Springs missed almost the entire season, Marshall was banged up all year and ineffective, Griffin missed significant time, Prielou (sp) was gone all season.. This year, aside from Taylor (which is significant obviously), we've been without Rogers (no bog loss IMO) for half the season, Washington for 3 games, Smoot for one and who else? We've been relatively healthy on defense this season..

If anything we can credit Gibbs for addressing the depth issues we had in the offseason but the bloom is off the Grilliams rose for me..[/quote]

I'd argue the impact of Taylor's death has far exceeded any injury we had last year. And I definitely don't agree that Rogers was no big loss.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;394923]I'd argue the impact of Taylor's death has far exceeded any injury we had last year. And I definitely don't agree that Rogers was no big loss.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you on Taylor 100% but that has been less than 1/4 of the season (really it's been 3 games, in which we've been 2-1).. We'll agree to disagree on Rogers.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;394728]Say what you will but MB did take us to the playoffs in 2005. Let's not gloss over that.[/quote]

IMO an above average/good qb would have taken us even further w/ a dominant defense like we had. I'll give MB credit for managing the game/not losing games for us. Let's face it though MB was asked not to lose the game in most cases.

If we had a QB that could stretch the field for us, who knows? SB? That's not out of the question. I don't see how the MB experiement could be seen as a success.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=redsk1;394937]IMO an above average/good qb would have taken us even further w/ a dominant defense like we had. I'll give MB credit for managing the game/not losing games for us. Let's face it though MB was asked not to lose the game in most cases.

If we had a QB that could stretch the field for us, who knows? SB? That's not out of the question. [B]I don't see how the MB experiement could be seen as a success[/B].[/quote]

Well for one season the results were good. Other than that I would say the experiment didn't work out. But you do have to wonder how things might have been last year if the D wasn't a total mess.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=Paintrain;394925]I agree with you on Taylor 100% but that has been less than 1/4 of the season (really it's been 3 games, in which we've been 2-1).. We'll agree to disagree on Rogers.[/quote]

Rogers' loss is significant if only for the fact it bumped everyone else up the depth chart. If Rogers was healthy we might not have been subjected to Leigh Torrence seeing significant action.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;394700]How has the D been mediocre this year?

10th overall (19th vs. pass, 9th vs. rush).

12th overall in points given up per game with 20.2.

9th overall in 3rd down conversion % with 38%

They are in the top 1/3 in most major categories. Sorry but that's really not fitting of the definition of mediocre.[/QUOTE]

Those numbers do look great but with the game on the line they have not been able to make a stands and keep the opponent from scoring. As I have said in the past, I really dont care about stats as I have noticed losing teams love to quote stats in an attempt to show that they really are better than their record while I rarely ever hear winners talk about stats. When the D was needed to win games they didnt come through. that why I believe they are mediocre.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

I, for one, would love to see Gibbs coach this team until his health no longer will allow him to do so. Of course, I'm biased. But still, if most (and I think most have) can agree that Joe Gibbs has brought some sort of stability to this team, then you have to believe that is quite an important aspect that the team has lacked all these years. I realize we all want results, and results equals winning records every year, playoff appearances, and the eventual Super Bowl title.

But consider this. Under Coach Gibbs, just about all of the losses we've had have been games that we've been leading in, and or lost late in the fourth quarter. Basically, games we've given away in the 11th hour. There have been very few games that we were clear losers from the get go. The line between the Redskins being a good, playoff team and being a losing team is very, very thin. With the exception of the Patriots, this team has proven that it can stand up against every team in this league...including the Colts. This is what I've seen in the last few seasons. I can't really say that about years before then.

The end results is what we all look at, and if this is the case, we can all agree that the end results can be much different with a matter of a play or two and some good luck thrown our way. That's pretty much it. That, to me, doesn't call for the Redskins to make a huge change in the coaching and players department. It just means more patience and to stick with what we get, because it's going to start paying off.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=irish;394947]Those numbers do look great but with the game on the line they have not been able to make a stands and keep the opponent from scoring. As I have said in the past, I really dont care about stats as I have noticed losing teams love to quote stats in an attempt to show that they really are better than their record while I rarely ever hear winners talk about stats. When the D was needed to win games they didnt come through. that why I believe they are mediocre.[/quote]

You seem to have some pretty unrealistic expectations of what it takes to call a defense good.

Stats need to be taken with a grain of salt at times, but when most of the stats indicate our defense is in the top third of the league in the major categories, I find it hard to disregard those and call the defense mediocre.

And just going by what I've seen personally, I'd say our defense is a good one. Not great, but certainly not mediocre. If our D is mediocre then I guess 2/3 of the league must be medicore to bad.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;394953]You seem to have some pretty unrealistic expectations of what it takes to call a defense good.

Stats need to be taken with a grain of salt at times, but when most of the stats indicate our defense is in the top third of the league in the major categories, I find it hard to disregard those and call the defense mediocre.

And just going by what I've seen personally, I'd say our defense is a good one. Not great, but certainly not mediocre. If our D is mediocre then I guess 2/3 of the league must be medicore to bad.[/QUOTE]

I guess I could go with calling them good but like you say, I was using the word mediocre because they are not great.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

Mediocre is defined as "of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance: Ordinary, so-so."

I don't see how that really fits when talking about this D.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;394962]Mediocre is defined as "of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance: Ordinary, so-so."

I don't see how that really fits when talking about this D.[/QUOTE]

Well the word ordinary fits but the rest of the definition does not apply.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

Yeah not really but I'm done with defining words for today.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;394969]Yeah not really but I'm done with defining words for today.[/QUOTE]

I guess I am curious why you think they are more than an ordinary NFL D this year. The numbers you show are good but when they need to make a stop on 1 drive at the end of a game they have blown it more than once. The weak O put the team in a position to win and the D (supposedly the strong point of the team) needs to stop the opponent just once and they dont. IMO if this D had played close to what we thought it would be this team would be at least 9-5 and pretty well assured of a playoff spot instead of needing to win and hoping for help.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

The offense has failed us more often than the defense this year. It seems that you're looking for a flawless defense or something. The truth is even the best defenses falter at times. Overall I've seen many more good things than bad this year from the D. They are a playoff caliber defense. Again I'll reiterate they are in the top third of the league in many of the critical categories that defenses are judged on. Sorry but I just can't put them in the mediocre or ordinary category. Your expectations and evaluation of their performance just isn't realistic.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

Scoring Defense, that's the stat that counts. Our D has given up few td's.

You need to take GW's scheme into consideration; he's employed the cover 2, bend don't break approach this year & it has been overwhelmingly successful w/2 exceptions, the NE & Dallas games. In the latter, we actually got beat a few times when we blitzed Landry instead of playing cover 2.

This is not a dominant shut down unit, but it's one that teams have a hard time scoring on. The talent level is now mediocre, but not the performance.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

In case anyone did not see this - here is an article form the Washington Times "Caution Trumps Free Spending"

[url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071219/SPORTS01/212860805/1005/SPORTS]Caution trumps free spending - - The Washington Times, America's Newspaper[/url]

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=Paintrain;394851]43 catches, 636 yds, 0 TD.. Which #1 WR is he playing like?

Perhaps David Patten, Bobby Wade, Jeff King, James Jones, Eric Johnson? He trails all of them in receptions, yards and/or TD.. Not to mention he's made virtually no impact in the return game..

Sorry, I'm a huge fan of the guy, but that's a bust.[/quote]

I guess I was referring to the games when we actually had a passing attack.

- ARE's had two 100 yard games.
- Zero TD's, sure. However we all know he was stopped at the goal line at least twice this year. Nobody has a problem giving Portis credit for those rushing TD's.
- The dude has a 14.8 yd/rec average. That puts him in some pretty solid company: Andre Johnson (15.0), Chad Johnson (14.9), Plexico Burress (14.4), Chris Chambers (14.4), Larry Fitzgerald (14.0).
- Number of games in which ARE has caught a pass and averaged LESS than 14 yards per reception? Three. Number of times TO has had this happen? Five. Reggie Wayne? Five. Larry Fitzgerald? Seven. Randy Frickin' Moss? Seven.

The point here is that I don't think ARE can be blamed for our lowly passing game. The entire passing offense is woeful, so I don't see how he can be viewed as anything other than a pleasant surprise rather than a bust.

He's outplaying Santana, who's the WR1 on this team, and would have equal receiving yardage with Cooley had he played the same number of games -- it's not ARE's fault if our playbook nearly always throws to the TE in the red zone.

Only Redskins fans could find a way to see negatives in something like the play of Randle El this year. Good grief.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=Bill B;394987]In case anyone did not see this - here is an article form the Washington Times "Caution Trumps Free Spending"

[URL="http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071219/SPORTS01/212860805/1005/SPORTS"]Caution trumps free spending*-*-*The Washington Times, America's Newspaper[/URL][/quote]

I think we'll see a cautious approach much like last year. First off, we're not in position to be aggressive because of the cap situation, and second and most importantly I think Gibbs has seen that while free agency can be a valuable tool to supplement a roster, it needs to be used wisely.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;394993]I think we'll see a cautious approach much like last year. First off, we're not in position to be aggressive because of the cap situation, and second and most importantly I think Gibbs has seen that while free agency can be a valuable tool to supplement a roster, it needs to be used wisely.[/quote]

I hope your right on this. I think when teams buy the super expensive free agents more often than not it doesn't always pan out like they planned. If I rememeber correctly wasn't everyone expecting the San Francisco 49ers to make the playoffs after they went in an offseason free agent spending splurge this past offseason - boy that worked out well for the Niners didn't it?

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=dgack;394991]I guess I was referring to the games when we actually had a passing attack.

- ARE's had two 100 yard games.
- Zero TD's, sure. However we all know he was stopped at the goal line at least twice this year. Nobody has a problem giving Portis credit for those rushing TD's.
- The dude has a 14.8 yd/rec average. That puts him in some pretty solid company: Andre Johnson (15.0), Chad Johnson (14.9), Plexico Burress (14.4), Chris Chambers (14.4), Larry Fitzgerald (14.0).
- Number of games in which ARE has caught a pass and averaged LESS than 14 yards per reception? Three. Number of times TO has had this happen? Five. Reggie Wayne? Five. Larry Fitzgerald? Seven. Randy Frickin' Moss? Seven.

The point here is that I don't think ARE can be blamed for our lowly passing game. The entire passing offense is woeful, so I don't see how he can be viewed as anything other than a pleasant surprise rather than a bust.

He's outplaying Santana, who's the WR1 on this team, and would have equal receiving yardage with Cooley had he played the same number of games -- it's not ARE's fault if our playbook nearly always throws to the TE in the red zone.

Only Redskins fans could find a way to see negatives in something like the play of Randle El this year. Good grief.[/QUOTE]

I don't know that anyone blamed him, but he came in as a #3 WR was promoted to a #2 WR and is putting up the production of a low 3A WR.. 0 TD cannot be ignored.. Yes, he was brought down inside the 5 a few times, how many points does close get you in the NFL, I forget.

Now is it scheme? Sure some of that is it. But he was also brought in to make an impact in the return game, improve field position, make big plays-he hasn't done that this year.. He's done much more hop hop hop, spin out of bounds than make postive yards and change field position.

Look, I'm not saying the guy sucks, as I said I am a big fan of him, but on the field, his production is substandard.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

Just to add my 2 cents in on ARE...

I think we are grossly overpaying ARE for the production that he brings in. I like ARE but his #'s don't support his salary. This is the case w/ alot of redskins and is a big problem that most of us can clearly see. Some of it does have to do w/ the "system" and lack of a passing game but he's getting paid w/ out major production on O or special teams. Its like having a Ferrari in the garage but not having a license to drive it. Not too smart. ARE is talented and i believe could have a 70-80 catch season but not in our current situation. Now who knows? Next year w/ an improved, healthy o line and hopefully improved JC, its a possibility.

I call this a bad use of our resources.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

Just an addition to my post above but McCardell could play and put up ARE's and he is cheap.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=redsk1;395064]Just an addition to my post above but McCardell could play and put up ARE's and he is cheap.[/quote]

Redsk1, I think the Skins have learned this lesson so they will hopefully not repeat it anymore. They let the Bills sign Derrick Dockery for a ludicrous contract but someone at Redskin Park was smart enough to say that is too much. The risks are too great in my opinion to hand over major signing bonuses like they did in that offseason and not tie them to incentives. I hope that the team utilizes more incentives in their bonuses and this in turn will provide the team a little insurance in case the player does not perform up to expected levels.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=Bill B;395070]Redsk1, I think the Skins have learned this lesson so they will hopefully not repeat it anymore. They let the Bills sign Derrick Dockery for a ludicrous contract but someone at Redskin Park was smart enough to say that is too much. The risks are too great in my opinion to hand over major signing bonuses like they did in that offseason and not tie them to incentives. I hope that the team utilizes more incentives in their bonuses and this in turn will provide the team a little insurance in case the player does not perform up to expected levels.[/quote]

Agreed, i think so too.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=Paintrain;395049]I don't know that anyone blamed him, but he came in as a #3 WR was promoted to a #2 WR and is putting up the production of a low 3A WR.. 0 TD cannot be ignored.. [/quote]

I guess. How's the rest of our dynamite receiving corps doing? You're looking at total yardage and TD's as if that's the only measure of a guy's contributions, and we both know that isn't the case.

You want to say the catches stopped inside the goal line "don't count", that's fine; how many long runs has Portis reeled off for TD's this year?

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;394993]I think we'll see a cautious approach much like last year. First off, we're not in position to be aggressive because of the cap situation, and second and most importantly I think Gibbs has seen that while free agency can be a valuable tool to supplement a roster, it needs to be used wisely.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. The good news we have almost a full draft this year, which will be very well needed.

And of course FA has always been a big part of Joes thinking process on filling holes and IMO it has been effective.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

I defiantly hope Gibbs signs an extension. I would have to think that any coach in the NFL that had to deal with everything we’ve gone through this year would not have lost this team after ST died. I'm sure Gibbs has learned a lot in his second go around and I think his hard work will start to payoff.

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;394610]Why does it have to be Windows-based?

iGibbs[/quote]

or better still.... Gibbux

Re: Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.
 

[quote=irish;394975]I guess I am curious why you think they are more than an ordinary NFL D this year. The numbers you show are good but when they need to make a stop on 1 drive at the end of a game they have blown it more than once. The weak O put the team in a position to win and the D (supposedly the strong point of the team) needs to stop the opponent just once and they dont. IMO if this D had played close to what we thought it would be this team would be at least 9-5 and pretty well assured of a playoff spot instead of needing to win and hoping for help.[/quote]

You have to take into account the human aspect of this defense. In the games where they faltered, they were physically exhausted. It was in those games that the offense could not stay on the field. You can't expect any D to be on the field the whole game and pitch a shutout.

I think this past Giants game was the only one, except the Lions game, where they got the 1st downs when they needed them...at the end of the game to kill the clock.