Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

look at the numbers over three games, TC has 4TDs no INT 60pct of his completions and about 235 yards per game. If you remove the stats from NYG game where the wind screwed up the passing game, he's averaging 75pct of completions. Todd is a beast, I'm not one of those JC haters, not at all, but as long as I' almost sure he won't be 100pct in a couple of weeks, stick to TC if we make the playoffs.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;397120]How about this scenario. Just pure hypothetical of course, what if Collins got the team to the NFC Championship and then Campbell was declared 100% ready to go. Would you still make the switch at that point?[/quote]If Todd Collins can keep up this level of play for six games, and I mean, if he's the reason we are in the NFC Championship game because the defense has struggled and we won a few shootouts, then I think we could make a case to keep him entrenched as the starter.

The bottom line is that you have to play your best QB. Who's playing well right now can be a mirage: the idea is to play the guy who WILL play the best, not HAS played the best. After three impressive games from Collins, I still have no reason to think he's better than a healthy Campbell.

Do you?

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

Collins is a great story... just his being away from the game all that time and making an impact like he is is amazing. He appears to be more in pace with Moss and WR core overall.
Thank you Santa for this new Redskin attitude...fun to watch !!!!

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/24/AR2007122401875.html]washingtonpost.com[/url]

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;397228]If Todd Collins can keep up this level of play for six games, and I mean, if he's the reason we are in the NFC Championship game because the defense has struggled and we won a few shootouts, then I think we could make a case to keep him entrenched as the starter.

The bottom line is that you have to play your best QB. Who's playing well right now can be a mirage: the idea is to play the guy who WILL play the best, not HAS played the best. [B] After three impressive games from Collins, I still have no reason to think he's better than a healthy Campbell.

Do you?[/B] [/quote]

Right now Collins is easily the better QB. The numbers don't lie.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

that's hard, but i'd probably just keep collins in right now.

campbell has been fumbling a bit, and saunders has been using a crappier (no downfield) gameplan with him, even though deep is what he does best :/.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;397244]Right now Collins is easily the better QB. The numbers don't lie.[/quote]

Collins is the better QB right now because JC is hurt. A 100% healthy JC is still the better QB.

Again, however, there is no chance JC can be at 100% in the next month, so I don't think it's a difficult decision who starts - Collins. If we're talking hypotheticals, though, then a 100% healthy (including conditioning) JC would have to get the start over Collins, because he is simply a better QB.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=onlydarksets;397262]Collins is the better QB right now because JC is hurt. A 100% healthy JC is still the better QB.

Again, however, there is no chance JC can be at 100% in the next month, so I don't think it's a difficult decision who starts - Collins. If we're talking hypotheticals, though, then a 100% healthy (including conditioning) JC would have to get the start over Collins, because he is simply a better QB.[/quote]

What??? Collins has put up better numbers than Campbell, can run the entire offensive play book, hasn't thrown an interception, and has won all three games he has been in. He is the best QB for right now. Campbell will probably become a better QB than Collins very soon, and there is no question he has more natural ability, but he still has some growing to do!

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=GoSkins!;397263]What??? Collins has put up better numbers than Campbell, can run the entire offensive play book, hasn't thrown an interception, and has won all three games he has been in. He is the best QB for right now. Campbell will probably become a better QB than Collins very soon, and there is no question he has more natural ability, but he still has some growing to do![/quote]

I'm not saying that Collins hasn't played lights out. I'm saying that each week is a new week, and a 100% healthy JC gives us the best chance in the long term to be successful. Momentum is a factor, but it's a short-term factor - consistency and security are the long term factors in winning. See canthetuna's posts for more on that (I agree with most of what he is saying about other reasons to start JC, [I]even if he isn't the better QB[/I]).

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

Collins is undefeated...you do not mess with what works. Collins is my pick.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

ooo i will go with Collins to start

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

No question in my mind, it's TC. Next year is a whole new ball game. The worry is not about whether JC can mentally handle sitting, he's sitting now while out injurred. You've gotta love the fact that we have a postitive poll to discuss this late in the year, and here's hoping we go all the way in the PO's!

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

Collins is hot, has control of the offense and has Saunders full confidence to use the entire playbook.

Campbell is the future, but the rest of the playoffs is all TC.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

I saw on ESPN that Campbell would be 50/50 by the time our first playoff game would be played. I would like to think that Gibbs would not play Campbell unless he was 100%. That being said, does anyone really think that Gibbs would undercut Collins for Campbell after Collins rolled off 5 straight games? (4 to end the season and 1 playoff)

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

Even if JC is 100% for the playoffs there is no way he can be the starter. Collins gives this team the best chance to win right now.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

At this moment in time, the ball belongs in Collins' hands. He has helped resurrect this team from the "dead", and if he continues to to be the hot hand, you have to play him.

Even if Jason Campbell starts his way back today, he still wouldn't be ready for this Sunday or next, and would most likely not be ready for a Division Weekend game. He'll have the entire offseason once again to continue his learning of the offense, and once training camp starts in '08, he'll have the reigns and hopefully Saunders will open up the playbook some more.

It's all about the best chance to win right now. And right now, Todd Collins gives this team the best chance to win.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

Look at how the 1972 Dolphins (17-0) handled it.

No one expected what the young team accomplished in 1972. A promising campaign seemingly was lost when starting quarterback Bob Griese went down with a broken leg during just the fifth game of the season. However, the Dolphins rallied behind journeyman Earl Morrall and posted an unprecedented 17-0 record, culminated by a 14-7 victory, Griese's first full game back, over the Washington Redskins in Super Bowl VII.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[U]Right now[/U], I'm 100% behind Todd Collins. But, what if Todd Collins comes out and lays an egg against Dallas? I might waffle if he falters.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;397789][U]Right now[/U], I'm 100% behind Todd Collins. But, what if Todd Collins comes out and lays an egg against Dallas? I might waffle if he falters.[/quote]

If that happens the season is probably over and it's back to Campbell for next year.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;397790]If that happens the season is probably over and it's back to Campbell for next year.[/QUOTE]

Probably. But what if this team wins next week in spite of Collins? Collins deserves a LOT of credit for stepping up and playing like a Pro Bowler off the bench. But I'm not totally sold just yet. He's played 2 great games. I'm not so sure that 2 near perfect performances justifies putting so much faith in him. If he doesn't play well this Sunday, I'll be torn about which QB should start.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=Paintrain;397401]Collins is hot, has control of the offense and has Saunders full confidence to use the entire playbook.

Campbell is the future, but the rest of the playoffs is all TC.[/quote]
Playoff Defenses are a totally different story.... I think Collin's lack of mobility will be a major liability..... Collins has also benefitted from having healthy recievers.....Collins has played well but not so spectacular that he is the [B]Messiah .. [/B]Also The Offensive line has started to play alot better... So If Collins can play so well now..I beleive Campbell with his mobility and strong arm would be alot better than Collins... But I will be cheer for whoever plays..

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[QUOTE=railcon56;397795]Playoff Defenses are a totally different story.... I think Collin's lack of mobility will be a major liability..... Collins has also benefitted from having healthy recievers.....Collins has played well but not so spectacular that he is the [B]Messiah .. [/B]Also The Offensive line has started to play alot better... So If Collins can play so well now..I beleive Campbell with his mobility and strong arm would be alot better than Collins... But I will be cheer for whoever plays..[/QUOTE]

The line is playing better because they dont have to hold their protection too long since Collins gets the ball out fast instead of standing there trying to figure out who's open. Also now that the Skins can pass the run has opened up and Portis looks more like the Portis of old.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=irish;397799]The line is playing better because they dont have to hold their protection too long since Collins gets the ball out fast instead of standing there trying to figure out who's open. Also now that the Skins can pass the run has opened up and Portis looks more like the Portis of old.[/quote]

Yep I agree.

It's easy to protect for a guy that takes 3 step drops and gets the ball out on time.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=irish;397799]The line is playing better because they dont have to hold their protection too long since Collins gets the ball out fast instead of standing there trying to figure out who's open. Also now that the Skins can pass the run has opened up and Portis looks more like the Portis of old.[/quote]
Portis himself has started running harder.....During the Minnesota Game I saw him making cuts like he hasn't since he was in Denver.... And those were in the open field.... Alot of things are coming together right now.... ARE ..Moss...Portis...they were all dinged up... Also the Offensive Line is Jelling and getting used to playing together... I will give Collins credit ..he has played well... But He hasnt been Unbelievable or Tom Brady like... The team as a WHOLE has started coming together....Plus I just don't believe a Stater should lose his job to injury...Collins competed for the starting job and lost....

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=canthetuna;397043]I know in public he'd be fine with it, but it would have to destroy his confidence to be healthy and have the team not trust him in the big games. He's a competitor.[/quote]
Well if it would destroy his confidence then he needs to find a new job. I don't see how this would even be an issue as the coaches had the confidence in him all year and even after he made some bad dicisions they stuck by him. This is about going with the hot hand and JC is coming off a 4 game loosing streek. If this was mid season then JC would be put back in as starter but its not. The thinking from this point of the season is which QB gives us the best chance to win some games and that is TC. Now I do not have a problem if TC is having a bad game that they put JC back in to try and provide a spark. If we start JC then it will be much tougher to pull him from a game if he is struggling.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[QUOTE=railcon56;397815]Portis himself has started running harder.....During the Minnesota Game I saw him making cuts like he hasn't since he was in Denver.... And those were in the open field.... Alot of things are coming together right now.... ARE ..Moss...Portis...they were all dinged up... Also the Offensive Line is Jelling and getting used to playing together... I will give Collins credit ..he has played well... But He hasnt been Unbelievable or Tom Brady like... The team as a WHOLE has started coming together....Plus I just don't believe a Stater should lose his job to injury...Collins competed for the starting job and lost....[/QUOTE]

Isn't that how Tom Brady won his starting job? Steve Young? Brett Favre?

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[QUOTE=railcon56;397815]Portis himself has started running harder.....During the Minnesota Game I saw him making cuts like he hasn't since he was in Denver.... And those were in the open field.... Alot of things are coming together right now.... ARE ..Moss...Portis...they were all dinged up... Also the Offensive Line is Jelling and getting used to playing together... I will give Collins credit ..he has played well... But He hasnt been Unbelievable or Tom Brady like... The team as a WHOLE has started coming together....Plus I just don't believe a Stater should lose his job to injury...Collins competed for the starting job and lost....[/QUOTE]

One of the biggest myths in sports is that a starter cant lose his job due to injury.

At this point in time Collins is the better QB.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

Collins is the obvious choice. The playoffs are all about the now, and the regular season has the added variable of having to consider development and the future. The playoffs are about NOW. And right now, Todd doesnt throw interceptions. (knock knock)

I think Portis may be getting a bit more breathing room because of Todd Collins mastery of the Al Saunders offense. Which as i remember it from KC, was very good at loosening up the linebackers with a wild variety of screens and slants.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=irish;397823][B]One of the biggest myths in sports is that a starter cant lose his job due to injury.[/B]

At this point in time Collins is the better QB.[/quote]

I agree, I always thought that was a dumb way of thinking.

If a backup comes in and outperforms the starter, of course the starter can loose his job.

Some of the greatest careers in sports came about because a starter got hurt.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

Funny how this team seemed to jell when Collins took over. The WR's, running game, O line, and the only thing that really changed was the QB. I'm not saying Collins should be our starter next year and/or JC is not that good I'm just saying that right now TC is getting the job done. So do we want JC who lost his last 4 games as our starter or TC the winner of the past 4 games (assuming we win to get to the playoffs) leading our team. Thats not that tough of a choice if you ask me. We have to go with the hot hand.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

i kind of disagree with you firstdown. while i do think the offensive line is jelling, i think all of our skill position players (not counting Campbell) have gotten healthy together. i read a good article in the post by J.L.C that pretty much said that Moss and Portis are the healthiest they have been all season right now. sorry, i don't have a link :(

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

I would also go for Collins...

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

i say collins stays in cause look what he,s been able to do and the team for that matter even if campbell is ready to go...


you go with whats working now andcollins gets my vote...

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;397889]I agree, I always thought that was a dumb way of thinking.

If a backup comes in and outperforms the starter, of course the starter can loose his job.

Some of the greatest careers in sports came about because a starter got hurt.[/quote]

What if Mo Lewis never nailed the living crap out of Drew Bledsoe??

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=dmek25;397915]i kind of disagree with you firstdown. while i do think the offensive line is jelling, i think all of our skill position players (not counting Campbell) have gotten healthy together. i read a good article in the post by J.L.C that pretty much said that Moss and Portis are the healthiest they have been all season right now. sorry, i don't have a link :([/quote]
That Is what I think...While TC has played well.... The receivers are the healthiest they have all been since training camp.... Moss could barely run and ARE was injured and even Thash has been hurt...not to mention Sellers...all this was in place for the Bears game... and that had not happened since early in the season.... And Campbell won those games.... And also Portis is the healthiest.... So while TC has been good... Campbell hasn't been shaby... Every Commentator to the man thinks Campbell will be a sucess....

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

This is an easy answer - Collins.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

I realize that the backup QB is usually the most popular man in Washington, D.C., but is anyone else reluctant to crown TC as a great QB? I [U]really[/U] like what he has done in 2 of the 3 games in which he's played, but I'm still skeptical. If he plays lights out football against Dallas' starters and in the postseason, my opinion will change. Until then, I think it is too early to write the book on TC.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;397987]I realize that the backup QB is usually the most popular man in Washington, D.C., but is anyone else reluctant to crown TC as a great QB? I [U]really[/U] like what he has done in 2 of the 3 games in which he's played, but I'm still skeptical. If he plays lights out football against Dallas' starters and in the postseason, my opinion will change. Until then, I think it is too early to write the book on TC.[/quote]

Close to all of redskins fans (and most non-redskins fans) love Jason Campbell. But why not give Todd Collins some love. He's definitely earned it, especially the years that he has patiently waited. I think it's not a coindence that the team clicked when he came in.

Campbell is definitely the future, but milk Todd Collins for however long he is hot. And right now he has the hot hand or arm. I would be willing to keep him in there for years if that means the team is successful. It looks like both Saunders and Gibbs like veteran qbs in their system. When Campbell is a confident veteran and Collins is fading, put Campbell in there.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;397987]I realize that the backup QB is usually the most popular man in Washington, D.C., but is anyone else reluctant to crown TC as a great QB? I [U]really[/U] like what he has done in 2 of the 3 games in which he's played, but I'm still skeptical. If he plays lights out football against Dallas' starters and in the postseason, my opinion will change. Until then, I think it is too early to write the book on TC.[/quote]


I remember collins coming in his first year and stinking it up in the preseason and everyone wanted to cut him, and I cant help but keep thinking that there is some reason the guy hasn't earned a starting job anywhere in over a decade in the league.

[B]Again, I have to reiterate that I am extremely impressed and pleased with his performance so far. I'm downright thankful for it, actually, and am NOT in any way attacking the guy or discrediting his recent accomplisments...[/B]

Im just trying to look at his entire body of work and place it in our current situation. I personally think TC is a younger version of the QB we'll probably be seeing a bit of this weekend... BJ himself.. A wiley vet that will play well when needed but doesn't quite have what it takes to be a consistent starting QB anymore. I may be wrong, but that's the feeling I get. I speculate that there will be a team with a decent enough secondary to cover our guys that will have a pass rush that's effective and we'll be crying for mobile QB.


I also really want Campbell to get an opportunity to play in a big game if he's healthy and we're still alive. He worked very hard to help this team get into this situation, and I know he made some mistakes, but he's a young QB. I'd like to see him get some big game experience.

Re: A Playoff question: Campbell or Collins?
 

[QUOTE=warriorzpath;397997]Close to all of redskins fans (and most non-redskins fans) love Jason Campbell. But why not give Todd Collins some love. He's definitely earned it, especially the years that he has patiently waited. I think it's not a coindence that the team clicked when he came in.

Campbell is definitely the future, but milk Todd Collins for however long he is hot. And right now he has the hot hand or arm. I would be willing to keep him in there for years if that means the team is successful. It looks like both Saunders and Gibbs like veteran qbs in their system. When Campbell is a confident veteran and Collins is fading, put Campbell in there.[/QUOTE]

Todd certainly is entitled to lots of praise; he's played about as well as one could hope and has greatly exceeded expectations. But, given his limited playing time during the regular season, I think it's probably a good idea to temper our expectations. He looks damn good and may continue to look good, but it's highly doubtful he will continue to post 100+ QB ratings.

I guess I've just seen us fans get sky high when we see cause for hope and then get depressed when things don't work out exactly how we wanted them to. I'm guardedly optimistic about Todd and, more generally, our offense's future.