Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;397798]I think, perhaps incorrectly, that jsarno didn't mean to call anyone out in a negative way. I think he meant to give props to people who thought we would make the playoffs.

I certainly think that everyone on this site is a Redskins fan, save for guys like sandtrapjack and Giantone. But, I wouldn't mind seeing certain people [U]voluntarily[/U] admit that they were wrong when they said things, "lol...if you think the Redskins will make the playoffs you need to remove your burgundy and gold glasses because you are delusional....lol."[/QUOTE]


I think you're exactly right SGG! I think something needs to be said about those who sit back and laugh about the idea of the redskins making the playoffs and calling people delusional for even thinking such.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

I have to admit that i was nearly off the "playoff" bandwagon. The pessimistic side of me still wants to point out that we are taking advantage of a terrible NFC.

I love the Redskins, and i watch every play, sometimes twice, but i didnt see this ship turning around 3 weeks ago.

So i suppose this thread isnt for me. :)

We Want Dallas!!!

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

stating you dont think we will make the playoffs is one thing. saying "skins suck", which a couple people on here did, is a whole nuther thing.

go skins!

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;397733]I'm going to go ahead and call this thread retarded.

What so many people fail to realize - and it's the reason we've had this stupid divide on the site between "Kool Aid drinkers" and "Haterade drinkers" - is that there is a huge distinction between what you THINK will happen and what you WANT (or hope) to happen.

There's not a single one of us who stopped watching the games, stopped reading everything we could about the team, stopped discussing the team, or started cheering for another team. We all remained devoted fans. That's the one thing we all have in common here.

Our only differences throughout the year were in our opinions of how good the team was. [B]Being a fan does not mean you think they're always going to win[/B]. Being a fan means you love them, whether they win or lose.

Retarded thread. Please start getting what it means to be a fan.[/QUOTE]

However, there are those who mocked others for having faith. And who did not, and still do not, allow many of us to enjoy victories. There's always some caveat. Until recently, every victory is sort of quickly brushed aside so we can complain about this, that, and the other.

I mean it is what it is, and I agree that being a fan doesn't always mean you think they're going to win. Nor does it mean you should belittle those that do, or vice-versa. But there are people here (Redskins fans) who always pick the Redskins to lose. And I honestly have a hard time sharing in the joys of victory with them. Not that they care, I'm just saying

Either way, the important thing to me (and I'm sure all would agree with this) is that my favorite team is on a hot streak and one win away from the playoffs. It really doesn't matter to me who else is or isn't a fan.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;397867]However, there are those who mocked others for having faith. And who did not, and still do not, allow many of us to enjoy victories. There's always some caveat. Until recently, every victory is sort of quickly brushed aside so we can complain about this, that, and the other.

I mean it is what it is, and I agree that being a fan doesn't always mean you think they're going to win. Nor does it mean you should belittle those that do, or vice-versa. But there are people here (Redskins fans) who always pick the Redskins to lose. And I honestly have a hard time sharing in the joys of victory with them. Not that they care, I'm just saying

Either way, the important thing to me (and I'm sure all would agree with this) is that my favorite team is on a hot streak and one win away from the playoffs. It really doesn't matter to me who else is or isn't a fan.[/QUOTE]

Both sides piss me off. I guess I'm the only one here who falls somewhere in the middle, everyone else is either drinking "Kool-Aid" or "Hateraid."

The finger pointing, name calling and "nah nah nah I told you so" from BOTH sides is asinine.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[quote=over the mountain;397864]stating you dont think we will make the playoffs is one thing. saying "skins suck", which a couple people on here did, is a whole nuther thing.

go skins![/quote]

Don't beat around the bushes, you're referring to me and I have the negative reputation to show for it. I still don't know which one of my posts you find objectionable only that I "posted '[I]skins suck[/I]' about 6 weeks ago" and that I'm "not a true fan but a realist."

Anywho, I forgive you...next time just respond to my post and let me know why you disagree.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[quote=mheisig;397874]Both sides piss me off. I guess I'm the only one here who falls somewhere in the middle, everyone else is either drinking "Kool-Aid" or "Hateraid."

The finger pointing, name calling and "nah nah nah I told you so" from BOTH sides is asinine.[/quote]

I'm also not in either of the "Kool Aid" or "Haterade" camps. I'm in the camp of what I think makes sense.

Four weeks ago, I didn't think we could beat anybody. Today, I wouldn't be surprised to see us in the SB with the way we're playing. Was wrong on the first one, might be wrong on the second, who knows. But no matter what I think, I never stopped hoping and I never stopped cheering.

To those who want to bask in a victory without reading negativity, I say this: Don't come to a forum where opinions can be expressed freely. People may not think the same things you do about the team. If that brings you down, don't come here. Because this is a place where KNOWLEDGEABLE discussion should always be taking place. Knowledgeable discussion comes from various opinions. So if you want to simply bask in a victory, stick with people who are of like mind. Don't come here, where people will look at it from different viewpoints.

And to those who want to criticize fanhood one way or another, you're off-base. Our love of the team is the ONE THING we all have in common, no matter what we think.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;397898]

To those who want to bask in a victory without reading negativity, I say this: Don't come to a forum where opinions can be expressed freely. [/QUOTE]

Well to be fair, I think the same thing should be implied to those who don't wish to see the post basking in victory. I mean, like it or not, there's going to be overly optimistic, overly pessimistic, and middle ground Redskins fans on this forum. The extremists are going to clash, but I believe several of us have been here long enough to know which members contribute worthwhile posts here and those who are wastes of bandwidth. And again, there is probably not one single person here who does not think of himself/herself as a realist, whether if they look at things optimistically or pessimistically. Besides, realism and pessimism are not one in the same.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;397867]However, there are those who mocked others for having faith. And who did not, and still do not, allow many of us to enjoy victories. There's always some caveat. Until recently, every victory is sort of quickly brushed aside so we can complain about this, that, and the other. [/quote]

Where people deserve to be mocked is if they come on here and simply say "I think we'll win because I just believe we will." Or something like that. There is no rational thought there, there is no knowledgeable discussion there. If I see someone say something like that, I promise you I will mock them. Someone who says that cannot say "I told you so" when the Skins win, because they really had no idea.

But if you say I think we'll win because (take your pick), Joe Gibbs' record in December is awesome, Al Saunders can plan a better strategic gameplan with Collins at the helm, Jason Fabini and Stephon Heyer are run blocking well enough for us to run to either side effectively, Portis and Moss are playing their best football for Sean Taylor's memory, Reed Doughty is playing well enough to allow Landry to roam at FS, our defensive line is playing the run extremely well, etc. etc., then you've got a valid argument and nobody can mock you. You've participated in knowledgeable discussion.

Now I know most of you, especially you SS so this is in no way directed at you, provide that rational thought and knowledgeable discussion. And yet there are a few morons who still mock you. That makes no sense. Those morons should get negative rep points, and I'd cheer you as mods if you banned them, quite frankly.

I'm on neither side. I only want knowledgeable discussion. If you come around saying things with no meat or substance to them, you deserve to be mocked, no matter which side of the fence (Kool Aid or Hater) you live on.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[quote=Schneed10;397898]I'm also not in either of the "Kool Aid" or "Haterade" camps. I'm in the camp of what I think makes sense.

Four weeks ago, I didn't think we could beat anybody. Today, I wouldn't be surprised to see us in the SB with the way we're playing. Was wrong on the first one, might be wrong on the second, who knows. But no matter what I think, I never stopped hoping and I never stopped cheering.

To those who want to bask in a victory without reading negativity, I say this: Don't come to a forum where opinions can be expressed freely. People may not think the same things you do about the team. If that brings you down, don't come here. Because this is a place where KNOWLEDGEABLE discussion should always be taking place. Knowledgeable discussion comes from various opinions. So if you want to simply bask in a victory, stick with people who are of like mind. Don't come here, where people will look at it from different viewpoints.

[B]And to those who want to criticize fanhood one way or another, you're off-base. Our love of the team is the ONE THING we all have in common, no matter what we think[/B].[/quote]
one of the best lines ever posted here. and lord knows schneed and i don't agree on much:)

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[quote=Schneed10;397905]Where people deserve to be mocked is if they come on here and simply say "I think we'll win because I just believe we will." Or something like that. There is no rational thought there, there is no knowledgeable discussion there. If I see someone say something like that, I promise you I will mock them. Someone who says that cannot say "I told you so" when the Skins win, because they really had no idea.

But if you say I think we'll win because (take your pick), Joe Gibbs' record in December is awesome, Al Saunders can plan a better strategic gameplan with Collins at the helm, Jason Fabini and Stephon Heyer are run blocking well enough for us to run to either side effectively, Portis and Moss are playing their best football for Sean Taylor's memory, Reed Doughty is playing well enough to allow Landry to roam at FS, our defensive line is playing the run extremely well, etc. etc., then you've got a valid argument and nobody can mock you. You've participated in knowledgeable discussion.

Now I know most of you, especially you SS so this is in no way directed at you, provide that rational thought and knowledgeable discussion. And yet there are a few morons who still mock you. That makes no sense. Those morons should get negative rep points, and I'd cheer you as mods if you banned them, quite frankly.

I'm on neither side. I only want knowledgeable discussion. If you come around saying things with no meat or substance to them, you deserve to be mocked, no matter which side of the fence (Kool Aid or Hater) you live on.[/quote]
What the heck is wrong with a fan picking his team just becasue he believes they will win. Why does someone always have to have a reason for picking their team to win? I could never pick another team to beat the skins NO MATTER WHAT. I always believe that if we put a team on the field we have a chance to win, period. Yes there are games like last week against the Vikes I said if we stop the run their QB cannot beat us and we have a big win. There are some games that I think will be very tough for us to win and we are out matched in ever part of the game but I still would not pick the other team to beat us. I think that we see people on this site who try and play Mr Know It All and pick against their team followed by a long list of reasons. Thats what I don't get. I don't care what the reasons are for us to loose as a fan I still always believe we can win.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[quote=firstdown;397935]What the heck is wrong with a fan picking his team just becasue he believes they will win. Why does someone always have to have a reason for picking their team to win? I could never pick another team to beat the skins NO MATTER WHAT. I always believe that if we put a team on the field we have a chance to win, period. Yes there are games like last week against the Vikes I said if we stop the run their QB cannot beat us and we have a big win. [B]There are some games that I think will be very tough for us to win and we are out matched in ever part of the game but I still would not pick the other team to beat us[/B]. I think that we see people on this site who try and play Mr Know It All and pick against their team followed by a long list of reasons. Thats what I don't get. I don't care what the reasons are for us to loose as a fan I still always believe we can win.[/quote]

That's not making a pick. That's rooting. Making a pick is saying what you THINK will happen. Rooting is what you WANT to happen. If you think we're outmatched in every phase of the game, then you think we're not likely to win the game. You just won't say so publicly because for some strange reason you tie fanhood to positive thinking. That makes no sense.

If you can't give an honest assessment of the team, and you're just going to express hope all the time, why should your opinions be considered relevant? You're just blowing hot air on the boards.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

Actually, the only opinions about my posts here that I'm really concerned with are the opinions of the moderators and administrators. If others don't like the contents therein, then well, they can skip over it. Most of the time I believe I post pretty good reasons for my point. They might only make sense to me, but honestly, #1 is who I'm concerned about first anyways..lol! ;)

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

it hasn,t been easy but in the end i know that joe wil direct and guide this team and organization when times are tough such as this year and i couldn,t be happier to see our skins be right in the hunt for the postseason.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

I take it "Redskins rool, [Opponents] drulel!" doesn't cut it? :cheeky-sm

Sometimes the old gut feeling is all I have to go on. I watch every game and can see how good we [B]can[/B] be, but upon further analysis the stats can show that we are subpar. When I make a prediction it's based what I think we are capable of, but not based on what we have accomplished statistically. I realize that stats aren't the only variables used to make a prediction formula, but they're used more often than not as reasoning behind predictive behavior. As a fan of my team, I throw out the logical analysis for a more skewed fanatical perspective. I see teams that lead the the league in rushing, but quickly recall some amazingly long runs that supports those stats. I see a QB who's accuracy % stinks, but then remember that the game was very cold and windy, thus effecting his accuracy and catchability...

I have no idea where I was going with this post...

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[quote=jsarno;397294]The Redskins have rewarded our faith with an intensely important game in week 17. There have not been many of us that remained faithful and believed in the 07 Skins, but those that have...pat yourselves on the back. You are a solid reason why the Skins have been successful lately. Faith is a powerful thing.
I'm going to take the high road here. I could write a list of people (a long list mind you) that gave up on this team, and some that made threads about our demise, but instead of dwelling on that, I am inviting everyone to enjoy where we are RIGHT NOW. We have a chance to make the playoffs with only 1 more win. Win and you're in. It doesn't get much better than this. For as corny as this sounds, let's all join together and enjoy this as a whole as only we can do as the best fans on the planet.
I forgo any grudges I have on posters here that have been less than optimistic, and I look forward to ALL OF US enjoying a victory over hated Dallas to get into the playoffs. Who's with me?[/quote]

I threw in the towel after the Buffalo game. I didn't even care anymore about this season after what happened to ST. But now I don't want it to end. I guess faith is a powerful thing and I can't wait until Sun. I think the guys are playing on pure emotion right now.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[quote=Schneed10;397733]I'm going to go ahead and call this thread retarded.

What so many people fail to realize - and it's the reason we've had this stupid divide on the site between "Kool Aid drinkers" and "Haterade drinkers" - is that there is a huge distinction between what you THINK will happen and what you WANT (or hope) to happen.

There's not a single one of us who stopped watching the games, stopped reading everything we could about the team, stopped discussing the team, or started cheering for another team. We all remained devoted fans. That's the one thing we all have in common here.

Our only differences throughout the year were in our opinions of how good the team was. [B]Being a fan does not mean you think they're always going to win[/B]. Being a fan means you love them, whether they win or lose.

Retarded thread. Please start getting what it means to be a fan.[/quote]I think you are generalizing hope with being a homer.

It doesn't take a whole lot of intelligence to sit back after the Bills loss and be like "if we beat a bad Bears team, a reeling Giants team, and a Vikings team that lacks balance, we will be 8-7 and in great playoff position." However, there were only a handful of people on this fourm who had the aptitude/foresight to think ahead to that point. Those who did (I am one of the ones who did) really aren't all that surprised at the outcome. Fortunate this team has been in recent weeks, but this was not a miracle.

A lot of fourm members deemed the Redskins out of it for certain. I'm not talking about making an educated guess that these guys werent a playoff team, I mean they were very adament and vicious in making sure each and every one of the playoff hopefuls were admonished.

The bottom line of this thread is those people were wrong, ignorant, and stupid in their line of thinking as football fans, and more specifically Redskin fans. This isn't about the people who made a prediction that we would miss the playoffs. This is about those who tried to take solitude in us missing the playoffs and just generally being asses.

They know who they are, but this thread is not stupid.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

I think this thread, and so many others, is just another hammer strike driving a wedge between people who come to a virtual place to share and discuss feelings about a team. It's just done in a manner that can easily be defended by aloofness.

I'm not a hater or a blind homer, but more of a realist and a very dedicated fan, but I have got to say I'm personally getting sick of the bickering and snide comments going on on this forum. I think its getting out of hand and I am starting to feel alienated by the whole conflict.

A difference in opinions is fine, and I would expect it is welcome, but by classifying people in 2 categories and dismissing someone else's statement based on where you associate their loyalites (hater-ade, kool-aid, etc...) you exercise a prejudice that limits what you can take away from a site like this. My feeling is that when people partake in this, they tend to get caught up in more and more personal attacking and bickering, which clutters an otherwise top notch fan discussion board.

I also seem to take more offense to the threads that get started after positive things happen with the team. I kind of expect that there will be ignorant reactionary threads and posts from people speaking from emotion after they are hurt by their team losing. I don't agree with it, but I understand that a lot more than someone waiting for a win or a streak so that they can call out those people, and further drive the divide because they've got a grudge, and I hate that when I get on this site to discuss exciting things about my team I have to read garbage posts and threads calling other fans out for not believing enough, or not being right in their predictions... Maybe it just blindsides me, I don't know... I don't understand the idea that because someone didn't predict a win they can't enjoy it.

On the flip side, I don't understand why after every loss some jack ass starts a new thread with a title like, "Gibbs must go" or "Fire Gibbs", but doesn't back up his assertion with any kind of poignant observations, and quickly leads to . That crap absolutely unnerves me, but I expect it more, I guess.

Anyhow, I just want to ask anyone that cares or feels the same way to take a moment before you post or start a thread and ask, "How does this contribute to the content on this site?"

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[quote=canthetuna;398023]I think this thread, and so many others, is just another hammer strike driving a wedge between people who come to a virtual place to share and discuss feelings about a team. It's just done in a manner that can easily be defended by aloofness.

I'm not a hater or a blind homer, but more of a realist and a very dedicated fan, but I have got to say I'm personally getting sick of the bickering and snide comments going on on this forum. I think its getting out of hand and I am starting to feel alienated by the whole conflict.

A difference in opinions is fine, and I would expect it is welcome, but by classifying people in 2 categories and dismissing someone else's statement based on where you associate their loyalites (hater-ade, kool-aid, etc...) you exercise a prejudice that limits what you can take away from a site like this. My feeling is that when people partake in this, they tend to get caught up in more and more personal attacking and bickering, which clutters an otherwise top notch fan discussion board.

I also seem to take more offense to the threads that get started after positive things happen with the team. I kind of expect that there will be ignorant reactionary threads and posts from people speaking from emotion after they are hurt by their team losing. I don't agree with it, but I understand that a lot more than someone waiting for a win or a streak so that they can call out those people, and further drive the divide because they've got a grudge, and I hate that when I get on this site to discuss exciting things about my team I have to read garbage posts and threads calling other fans out for not believing enough, or not being right in their predictions... Maybe it just blindsides me, I don't know... I don't understand the idea that because someone didn't predict a win they can't enjoy it.

On the flip side, I don't understand why after every loss some jack ass starts a new thread with a title like, "Gibbs must go" or "Fire Gibbs", but doesn't back up his assertion with any kind of poignant observations, and quickly leads to . That crap absolutely unnerves me, but I expect it more, I guess.

Anyhow, I just want to ask anyone that cares or feels the same way to take a moment before you post or start a thread and ask, "How does this contribute to the content on this site?"[/quote]

What a tremendous post, canthetuna.

You pretty much touched on a lot of my sentiments that I probably didn't put into words so well. It's disappointing to see the site go this route with such a divide. In 2005, we were 5-6, many of us thinking the team was dead. Then they reeled off the five straight wins. But never during that season did we have such a divide on the site, with people pointing fingers back and forth at each other, insisting that one side is all about blind faith and the other side is all about being negative all the time.

It's disappointing to see the pointless bickering, and disappointing to see threads started like this one where the author takes a passive aggressive approach to basically saying if you didn't believe the Skins could win, he'll "forego any grudges on posters here that have been less than optimistic." To me, that essentially says if you didn't believe they could win, you're less of a fan than him.

And to see the moderators, in any way shape or form, defend the author of this post is extremely disappointing. I understand the point of the mods throughout this thread: people who predicted the demise of the Skins were wrong. But go back and read the first post in this thread. That was not the point of the thread. The point was to be passively derisive of anyone with a negative viewpoint:

[quote]
There have not been many of us that remained faithful and believed in the 07 Skins, but those that have...pat yourselves on the back...

I'm going to take the high road here. I could write a list of people (a long list mind you) that [B]gave up on this team[/B], and some that made threads about our demise...

I forgo any grudges I have on posters here that have been less than optimistic.[/quote]

Gave up on the team? Last I checked, nobody stopped being a fan just because they thought the team wouldn't do well.

Would have been nice to see the mods take leadership to strike down this type of instigation. A bit disappointing and alienating, as ctt mentioned.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;398015]I think you are generalizing hope with being a homer.[/quote]

No I'm not, just the opposite in fact. I'm saying we all had hope that the team would win. We just didn't all agree that the team would win.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

Kinda funny that the people that are against this 'divide' amongst the fans aren't doing much to help things by shooting down this thread as being stupid and/or retarded.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

I think there's some legit discussion going on here. Perhaps it didn't start off on the right foot, but for the most part it's swung away from the extreme that it started off on.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[quote=Mattyk72;398061]Kinda funny that the people that are against this 'divide' amongst the fans aren't doing much to help things by shooting down this thread as being stupid and/or retarded.[/quote]

Any thread contributing to, or causing, a divide between fans is retarded.

You know well and good I've hit people on both side of the fence with the "retarded thread" label.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;398061]Kinda funny that the people that are against this 'divide' amongst the fans aren't doing much to help things by shooting down this thread as being stupid and/or retarded.[/QUOTE]

Fortunately this thread seems to have progressed with some thoughtful discussion.

It started out "retarded" for sure, but we're now actually talking about some of the problems and discussing it in a rather productive way.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[quote=Schneed10;398066]Any thread contributing to, or causing, a divide between fans is retarded.

You know well and good I've hit people on both side of the fence with the "retarded thread" label.[/quote]

And I'm saying bashing on a thread contributing to, or causing, a divide between fans is also retarded and in the end is only contributing to the problem.

Let's face it the divide isn't going to change. Rather than sweeping it under the rug and pretending it's not there, why not get it out in the open and figure out why people think the way they do?

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[quote=Mattyk72;398064]I think there's some legit discussion going on here. Perhaps it didn't start off on the right foot, but for the most part it's swung away from the extreme that it started off on.[/quote]

I'll agree there's legit discussion now, so thanks to the Warpath community, we turned this thread into something not retarded at all. There's definitely good discussion now, it's just nice to see it acknowledged that the thread did not start out so well. I'm just interested in seeing the divisive stuff come to an end, to the extent possible.

Posters need to remember one of the forum guidelines is to agree to disagree. If someone has a negative viewpoint, don't let it bring you down to the point where you bicker with them, just say well I think you're wrong, explain why you think so, and move on. And if someone is going on blind faith and being a total homer, don't let their beliefs annoy you to the point where you start calling them Kool Aid drinkers and bickering. Just say well I think you're wrong, explain why you think so, and move on. We can debate thoughtfully without bickering.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

I will call myself out here. I definately was one of the doubters. I didn't think in anyway possible we would be able to win those games down the stretch to give us a shot. Along with some help from other teams losing and we taking care of our business, we are actually playing a meaningful game this weekend against Dallas. I love it. I love the fact that it basically comes down to beating the cowboys for us to be in the playoffs. (unless Minn and NO lose)

Good job Joe and da Skins to prove me wrong.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[quote=Schneed10;398071]I'll agree there's legit discussion now, so thanks to the Warpath community, we turned this thread into something not retarded at all. There's definitely good discussion now, it's just nice to see it acknowledged that the thread did not start out so well. I'm just interested in seeing the divisive stuff come to an end, to the extent possible.

Posters need to remember one of the forum guidelines is to agree to disagree. If someone has a negative viewpoint, don't let it bring you down to the point where you bicker with them, just say well I think you're wrong, explain why you think so, and move on. And if someone is going on blind faith and being a total homer, don't let their beliefs annoy you to the point where you start calling them Kool Aid drinkers and bickering. Just say well I think you're wrong, explain why you think so, and move on. We can debate thoughtfully without bickering.[/quote]

But isn't it, well, difficult to debate thoughtfully around such a passionate thing like football? Particularly when both people are equally as passionate about the same team?

Let's say one person is more skilled at actually debating than someone else, does that somehow make their viewpoint less of an argument or thought worthy? Perhaps they aren't as good at articulating thoughts, facts, and arguments. And to some extent, I think that's where a huge part of the divide, so to speak, exists. To your point though, I think we should be able to debate without bickering, but I doubt it's possible when emotions run high as they often do around Redskins football.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

I have no problem with doubters. Doubt is a perfectly rational point of view to have especially with the way things went this season.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;398052]Gave up on the team? Last I checked, nobody stopped being a fan just because they thought the team wouldn't do well.

Would have been nice to see the mods take leadership to strike down this type of instigation. A bit disappointing and alienating, as ctt mentioned.[/QUOTE]

Just to piggyback on that, I'm willing to go so far as to say that everyone who posts on here on a regular basis is a fan. With the exception of the occasional douchebag who comes here trolling or selling something, everyone is here because they love the Redskins.

If you weren't a fan you wouldn't hop on the internet almost every day and write post after post about the 'Skins and argue the finer points of the team. If you weren't a fan, why would you spend hours and hours of your life and rack up 1000, 2000, 5000, 10,000+ posts about the Redskins? Of COURSE you're a fan, based on the sheer amount of your own personal time you devote to discussing and thinking about this team.

What pisses me off more than anything is the people making broad, sweeping declarations that "so-and-so" isn't a fan, after one negative comment said in frustration. That's as reactionary and asinine as the "negative nelly" who gets on here after a loss and demands that Gibbs be fired. There's zero difference.

Look, I have my share of disagreements on here with people, and some on a regular basis. Not to call anyone out, but for one reason or another I find myself on opposite sides of arguments with certain people about 99% of the time. But I'd never call them lesser fans or NOT fans at all. The simple fact that they are on here dicussing this at all means they are a fan.

A fan cares about their team, through thick and thin. Anyone who's even consistently watching the Redskins at this point in the season, after what the team has been through, is a fan in my book. Yes, it's annoying when after a tough loss someone jumps on here, creates a new account, demands someone's head, and leaves just as quickly. Hell, anyone who's watched this team be abysmal over the last 15 years is probably fan simply for sticking around.

I'd say the simple fact that someone cares enough about the team to GET angry about it proves "fan" status. If they weren't a fan, they'd probably just say "oh well, tough break" and forget about it.

There's personality clashes all the time, good arguments, bad arguments, and plainly illogical rambling, but questioning someone's "fan status" is just as "ridicules" as it comes.

We might go 0-16 in 2008, and you're damn right I'm going to complain about it the entire time. And I'll be right back in 2009 to watch every game.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;398080]But isn't it, well, difficult to debate thoughtfully around such a passionate thing like football? Particularly when both people are equally as passionate about the same team?

[B]Let's say one person is more skilled at actually debating than someone else, does that somehow make their viewpoint less of an argument or thought worthy? Perhaps they aren't as good at articulating thoughts, facts, and arguments.[/B] And to some extent, I think that's where a huge part of the divide, so to speak, exists. To your point though, I think we should be able to debate without bickering, but I doubt it's possible when emotions run high as they often do around Redskins football.[/QUOTE]

I see your point, but I'm not sure what to conclude from it.

Someone's argument may be really insightful and spot on, but if it's encased in nonsense and fallacy, I'm going to assume that it's nonsensical and fallacious until they can articulate it better.

If someone can't debate well, exhibits poor thinking ability, reasoning ability, or logical thought process and is unable to articulate their point, what should I conclude?

All we have to go on here is how someone articulates their point. If someone rambles on incoherently with poor grammar, poor spelling, fills their "argument" with fallacies and nonsense, what should I conclude?

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[quote=12thMan;398080]To your point though, I think we should be able to debate without bickering, but I doubt it's possible when emotions run high as they often do around Redskins football.[/quote]

Per the forum guidelines, it's the responsibility of the poster to calm their emotions before posting. The "think before you post" rule. And another one of the guidelines, to treat each other with the utmost respect. The bickering has got to go, no matter how hard it may be.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

People are making some good points here.

I just wanted to reiterate that it's usually those that are on the extreme ends of the fan spectrum that keep shit like this going. And some of those people we have gotten rid of lately if you haven't noticed.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[quote=mheisig;398093]I see your point, but I'm not sure what to conclude from it.

The point may very well be perfectly valid and spot on, but if it's encased in nonsense and fallacy, I'm going to assume that it's nonsensical and fallacious until they can articulate it better.

If someone can't debate well, exhibits poor thinking ability, reasoning ability, or logical thought process and is unable to articulate their point, what should I conclude?

All we have to go on here is how someone articulates their point. If someone rambles on incoherently with poor grammar, poor spelling, fills their "argument" with fallacies and nonsense, what should I conclude?

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...[/quote]

Exactly.

If you post nonsense, your opinion gets dismissed. Doesn't matter whether you're capable of posting well-articulated points or not. But to me, the issue comes down to how we treat each other. The issue to me is that one side questions the other's fan hood for thinking anything negative, and the other side questions the other's intelligence for having blind faith. On both sides, that has to stop.

The high road here is to post rational justification behind everything you post. Then you're not open to that ridiculous criticism from the "other side". And on the flipside, we as members, and the mods as mods, can take steps to come down on people who start up a bickering match.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[quote=Mattyk72;398099]People are making some good points here.

I just wanted to reiterate that it's usually those that are on the extreme ends of the fan spectrum that keep shit like this going. And some of those people we have gotten rid of lately if you haven't noticed.[/quote]

Yes, I did notice, and LOVED that move. I'm probably not giving you guys your due for taking action. You're the best forum staff I've come across. Just wanted to say that amidst my calling for improvement on the bickering.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;398101]Exactly.

If you post nonsense, your opinion gets dismissed. Doesn't matter whether you're capable of posting well-articulated points or not. But to me, the issue comes down to how we treat each other. The issue to me is that one side questions the other's fan hood for thinking anything negative, and the other side questions the other's intelligence for having blind faith. On both sides, that has to stop.

The high road here is to post rational justification behind everything you post. Then you're not open to that ridiculous criticism from the "other side". And on the flipside, we as members, and the mods as mods, can take steps to come down on people who start up a bickering match.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

Unfortunately the people currently involved in this discussion are probably not the ones that need to hear this...

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[quote=Schneed10;398096]Per the forum guidelines, it's the responsibility of the poster to calm their emotions before posting. The "think before you post" rule. And another one of the guidelines, to treat each other with the utmost respect. The bickering has got to go, no matter how hard it may be.[/quote]

Truthfully, how many people actually read or have read the forum guidelines? I haven't. And that's not out of disrespect to the site or the Mods. I love this place. I just try to keep myself in check, be nice for the most part, and I think I'll stay out of trouble. Yes, respect should be a written forum guideline that should be followed, but isn't that one of life's basic tenets? If someone needs to read the forum guidelines to exercise their better judgement in terms of respect for their fellow man and fellow fan, for that matter, then woe unto them.

I don't want to send the wrong message here. I do think the rules are very neccassary. I also think they are primarily for those who are either intent on breaking them to begin with or those who are well intentioned but perhaps a little ignorant about how forums are actually run.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;398109]Truthfully, how many people actually read or have read the forum guidelines? I haven't. And that's not out of disrespect to the site or the Mods. I love this place. I just try to keep myself in check, be nice for the most part, and I think I'll stay out of trouble. Yes, respect should be a written forum guideline that should be followed, but isn't that one of life's basic tenets? If someone needs to read the forum guidelines to exercise their better judgement in terms of respect for their fellow man and fellow fan, for that matter, then woe unto them.

I don't want to send the wrong message here. I do think the rules are very neccassary. I also think they are primarily for those who are either intent on breaking them to begin with or those who are well intentioned but perhaps a little ignorant about how forums are actually run.[/QUOTE]

I've read the rules, and they're certainly necessary to have.

For the most part, the mature, sane individuals on here who have their head on straight would operate on the forum guidelines whether they are there or not, or whether they've read them or not.

The douchebags will be douchebags, no matter how many times they read the rules.

The rules give you a nice way to boot someone off the forum and not have it be arbitrary.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[quote=12thMan;398109]Truthfully, how many people actually read or have read the forum guidelines? I haven't. And that's not out of disrespect to the site or the Mods. I love this place. I just try to keep myself in check, be nice for the most part, and I think I'll stay out of trouble. Yes, respect should be a written forum guideline that should be followed, but isn't that one of life's basic tenets? If someone needs to read the forum guidelines to exercise their better judgement in terms of respect for their fellow man and fellow fan, for that matter, then woe unto them.

I don't want to send the wrong message here. I do think the rules are very neccassary. I also think they are primarily for those who are either intent on breaking them to begin with or those who are well intentioned but perhaps a little ignorant about how forums are actually run.[/quote]

I'm with you. You're definitely not one of the trouble makers, in fact you're one of the model members around here and add a ton to the site. My beef is really with the guy who started this thread. The forum guidelines are based on common sense and common courtesy when it comes down to it, like you alluded to. But, like Mheisig just said, some people are just going to ignore them no matter what. My message is mainly directed at them (though I don't think they're reading at this point). But also, I'd be all in favor of mods and members coming down on this kind of behavior (like they did with one guy at the extreme end of the spectrum recently). Anyway, I've probably made my points. This is too much angst before a huge Cowboys game. I still heart you guys.

Re: For everyone that didn't give up!
 

[quote=mheisig;398114]I've read the rules, and they're certainly necessary to have.

For the most part, the mature, sane individuals on here who have their head on straight would operate on the forum guidelines whether they are there or not, or whether they've read them or not.

The douchebags will be douchebags, no matter how many times they read the rules.

The rules give you a nice way to boot someone off the forum and not have it be arbitrary.[/quote]

agreed. but still, there's something about have a douchebag drop by every now and then that's keeps it all interesting:)