Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;402692]Seattle was the better team today and they are a good football team. Especially at home. They earned the right to play a playoff game at home. Josh Brown made his FG's, our kicker did not. Our O-line got pushed around all game long, Seattle gave Hasselback time. Our wr's dropped some passes, Seattle's did not. Sometimes you have to tip your hat to the other team.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel about it. The Redskins had all of the momentum on their side, they were gifted the ball inside the Seattle's 20, and had a chance to go up by 8 and put some panic into the Seahawks. The problem was that the Seahawks, while not playing a perfect game, were ready at the most critical time. We can point at Cooley and say, "If he doesn't drop that pass . . . " But why were we throwing on 1st down in that situation to begin with? Because the Seahawks showed up well prepared and committed to not letting Portis gain the same yardage he did against the Giants, Vikings and Cowboys. I'm not saying that Saunders didn't throw on first down in any of the previous games, but rather that the Seahawks defense had rendered Saunders less confident in giving the ball to Portis--the anchor of the offense--at a critical point in which Saunders knew how important it was to walk away with a TD. And then there was the subsequent formation confusion between Collins and Sellers. How often did we see confusion on the Redskins' side of the ball in the previous four games? The confusion was hardly an accident or a freak occurrence--the Seahawks defense was forcing the Redskins to tinker with the formations. By the time Suisham came in for the field goal attempt, the Redskins were virtually no closer to the end zone than when they hadn't gotten the ball in the first place.

I know the Seahawks played in a weak division, had few (was it only one?) victories against .500+ opponents, weren't near the top of any team stat category, and, as I said, didn't play a perfect game. But I also heard/read several times last week that they were being underestimated, and there is no question that they showed up more prepared than any of our previous four opponents and also did a better job at exploiting our weaknesses. The bottom line is that, while there is no question there is talent on our sidelines, the whole organization, the media, and the fans have been talking about the emotion that has been driving our team the last several weeks, and we lost yesterday's game because we were outplayed by a better team. If we have no injuries, it's a different story. But the overall talent that was on the field yesterday wasn't equal, and emotion proved to be insufficient.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

i don't blame him alone (clearly) but I don't want to see him kicking for us again...

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[QUOTE=SkinEmAll;402753]Refresh my memory guys, isnt this the drive that Big Mike Sellers didnt know where to line up, and forced Todd to call a time out and bitch him out for screwing up? If indeed this is the same drive, ah hell even if it isnt, Sellers screwing up was the momentum killer, 100%. I was saying it from that point on. They were on a roll, and it changed everything. The kicker and punter need competion this year for sure, but our o-line was beaten today for most of the game, I thought Moss quit also on the INT., but post game explanation makes sense and I believe he didnt ever see the ball or know it was even thrown. Anyhow, it was a hell of a ride, ready training camp NOW![/QUOTE]

You took the word right out of my mouth, I too blame Sellers for killing the momentum we had!

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[ Don't be surprised if we see the Vanderjagt FA thread soon.[/QUOTE]

Hey!!I resent that:laughing2
since i"m usually the one bringing up Vandy
I still dont see how bringing in the best kicker in nfl history for some competition for suisham is a bad thing

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[QUOTE=tdSKINS1;402958]Cooley dropped a pass that would have been a first down on the one and we could have punched it in. We shouldn't even of had the chance to kick one it should have been first down at the one. We choke so much. How can Cooley make a one handed grab, but can't make a routine catch in a clutch situation. Makes no sense..[/QUOTE]

In Cooley's defense it was a low pass ... but I agree 75% of the time he makes that catch. We punch it in there a and go up by 8 in the fourth and we're talking Dallas today. We made a lot of mistakes in this game. Santana had 2 drive killing mistakes in the 1st half and our O-line looked awful

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

Suisham must go!!! If I was Dan, Suisham would've had to find his own way home.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[quote=BrunellMVP?;403030]i don't blame him alone (clearly) but I don't want to see him kicking for us again...[/quote]

So let's say he makes the kick. 17-13. Who's to say Seattle doesn't go down and score 7 like they did after he missed the kick? How come all the fans here just can't give Seattle credit cause they were just better. Everyone is blaming the damn kicker. As Gibbs said, it never ever ever comes down to one play. And I don't want to hear about the momentum. Good teams don't send the kicker out when they get the ball on the 14 yard line. Well, he's coming out to kick the PAT. In a game of that importance you can't be kicking FG's when you get a gift like that. Bottom line is we just didn't get the job done.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[QUOTE=htownskinfan;403126][ Don't be surprised if we see the Vanderjagt FA thread soon.[/QUOTE]

Hey!!I resent that:laughing2
since i"m usually the one bringing up Vandy
I still dont see how bringing in the best kicker in nfl history for some competition for suisham is a bad thing[/QUOTE]

I'm actually in the same boat....I still can't belive that guy doesnt have a job right now

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[QUOTE=BrunellMVP?;403030]i don't blame him alone (clearly) but I don't want to see him kicking for us again...[/QUOTE]

I TOTALLY BLAME HIM FOR THE LOSS!!!!!!
not only could he have easily made it, he took all the momentum from the kickoff
away. Its not Cooley's fault at all. it was just a horrible pass straight towards the ground.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[QUOTE=htownskinfan;402929]another qoute from Casey Rabach,
We felt like we were turning the corner," Redskins center Casey Rabach said. "Then we had that missed field goal and everything went awry."

2 qoutes from 2 different pklayers tells me it def affected them and the game,Suisham's name is dirt right now in the locker room,lol[/QUOTE]

Rabach can sure relate. He caused a penalty that blew a game for us in '05..I'm blanking on the game, but we were ready to score, he gets called, we're pushed out of field goal range, don't score, lose the game. In other words, we were turning the corner and everything went awry.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

I honestly think that if he makes that kick that the defense does not give up anmore points in the game, after he missed it all the life came out of the defense.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

Suisham cost them the game...plain and simple. Playoffs are all about momentum...it took all day but they finally quieted the crowd and seazed control and suisham gave it all back to seattle with that shank.

Honorable mention...Cooley's drop a couple plays before the missed field goal was huge also...he should have caught that ball and gave them 1st and goal at the 2...Cooley did some other good things in the game though.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[quote=Mattyk72;402940]Like when Folk shanked that short one at FedEx?

Look, I'm not going to place all the blame on Suisham and I feel like that's kinda what's happening here. He had a good season, better than I think most of us expected.

On the year he was 29 of 35 for 82.9%.

Your boy Folk was slightly more accurate with 26 of 31 for 83.9%.

Not much of a difference between the two kickers.[/quote]

Except for the fact that Suisham has been released by 2 teams for inconsistency. And I am willing to bet money that #3 is not far behind.

Folk is a rookie and a Pro-Bowler.

Suisham CHOKED in Dallas, he CHOKED in San Francisco and he CHOKED a chip shot field goal on Saturday. He totally changed the momentum of that game on one play.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

Agreed and the titans kicker is a free agent

[QUOTE=NYCSkin;402682]Suisham did blow it. This thread is about what was the momentum killer and that missed kick was it.

We need a kicker that is money from under 40 yards. That missed kick is unacceptable in a playoff game. As are his short kickoffs. Based on his resume with us thus far--the Skins should bring in ample competition for his job this summer IMO...[/QUOTE]

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[QUOTE=sandtrapjack;403278]Except for the fact that Suisham has been released by 2 teams for inconsistency. And I am willing to bet money that #3 is not far behind.

Folk is a rookie and a Pro-Bowler.

Suisham CHOKED in Dallas, he CHOKED in San Francisco and he CHOKED a chip shot field goal on Saturday. He totally changed the momentum of that game on one play.[/QUOTE]

How many FGs did he even attempt while in Dallas, and I don't remember him even making it off the practice squad in SF.

Finally, Folk is a Pro-Bowler because of the success of his team. Had Suisham been on a 13-3 team he'd be just as likely to be the PB representative.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

Reality check: Suisham isn't going anywhere and one play didn't cost us the game.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

Suisham is pretty good but how can you miss a 30 yarder? Matty I see what you are saying, but seriously dude you do not think this hurt our momentum? I simply cannot see how you can fool yourself into thinking otherwise.

I don't only blame him though, Saunders and play execution was terrible on that possession. If you are in the redzone in the playoffs you score no matter what, period. Cooley's drop, lack of blocking for Portis, Saunders' playcalling and Suisham's miss really really did kill us.

It is like how the Titans miss today killed their momentum and prevented it from being a 9-10 game they might have won.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[quote=hooskins;403333]Suisham is pretty good but how can you miss a 30 yarder? Matty I see what you are saying, but seriously dude you do not think this hurt our momentum? I simply cannot see how you can fool yourself into thinking otherwise.

I don't only blame him though, Saunders and play execution was terrible on that possession. If you are in the redzone in the playoffs you score no matter what, period. Cooley's drop, lack of blocking for Portis, Saunders' playcalling and Suisham's miss really really did kill us.

It is like how the Titans miss today killed their momentum and prevented it from being a 9-10 game they might have won.[/quote]

Sure it hurt the momentum, but the entire game didn't hinge on that one play, that's my simple point.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

how many times have you heard the phrase"that one play changed the game"? I've heard it a bunch of times,but theres no way to ever know.You could easily say cooleys drop before that changed the game,I think by far{and i dont see how anyone can argue this point}the biggest play that changed the game was Moss giving up on that pass and it being returned for a td,that gave them a 2 td lead and it was over then.Wait,i take that back,you could argue the point that wasnt the biggest play,it could have been in the first half when Moss was wide open and Collins was hit as he throws and underthrows him and Moss would have walked in for the td.You cant blame Suisham for the loss,but did the momentum switch when he missed? Definitely
do we need a better kicker? definitely
will we get one? probably not,theyre not that easy to come by

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

Suisham hit nearly 83% this year, sorry but I just don't see replacing him as a high priority. We've got other needs to chase. How about giving the kid a few years to see what exactly we've got in him and let him develop?

For those that want a "better" kicker, do you realize that Suisham was tied for 5th in the league with his 29 FG's?

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[quote=Mattyk72;403335]Sure it hurt the momentum, but the entire game didn't hinge on that one play, that's my simple point.[/quote]

Understood.

Ok how about this: Let's talk about that entire possession. Do you feel the lack of drawing out any points from that possession severely hurt our chances of winning?

I do. But it isn't all Suisham's fault. It falls with Saunders, Cooley, blocking and overall execution on those plays.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;403341]Understood.

Ok how about this: Let's talk about that entire possession. Do you feel the lack of drawing out any points from that possession severely hurt our chances of winning?

I do. But it isn't all Suisham's fault. It falls with Saunders, Cooley, blocking and overall execution on those plays.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely agree with that. Don't forget Sellers being out of place and forcing a timeout

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[quote=hooskins;403341]Understood.

Ok how about this: Let's talk about that entire possession. Do you feel the lack of drawing out any points from that possession severely hurt our chances of winning?

I do. But it isn't all Suisham's fault. It falls with Saunders, Cooley, blocking and overall execution on those plays.[/quote]

Of course, a TD and the game may have been over. Coming away with no points gave the Seahawks new life.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

Guys, we lost by 21 points. Tough to blame that entirely on the kicker. As for the Suisham chokes comments, I seem to recall him hitting a few game winners this season.

Fact is we've had the least consistent kicking situation in football basically since Chip Lohmiller so let's chill out a little bit.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[quote=SmootSmack;403309]How many FGs did he even attempt while in Dallas, and I don't remember him even making it off the practice squad in SF.

Finally, Folk is a Pro-Bowler because of the success of his team. Had Suisham been on a 13-3 team he'd be just as likely to be the PB representative.[/quote]

I'll answer that one with a question.

Folk hit 2 consectutive 53-yarders in the final seconds in Buffalo to win a nationally televised Monday Night game on the road. Once, when Buffalo called a timeont to freeze the kicker, and then he did it again after the timeout.

I have seen enough of Shaun Suisham to know he probably would have missed one or both of those.

I don't know how far back you can search on this board, but I made a post a few months ago with regards to Suisham, stating that if Washington made it to the playoffs that he had the potential to miss a makeable but important FG and could hurt this teams chances.

[quote=matty72]Suisham hit nearly 83% this year, sorry but I just don't see replacing him as a high priority. We've got other needs to chase. How about giving the kid a few years to see what exactly we've got in him and let him develop?

For those that want a "better" kicker, do you realize that Suisham was tied for 5th in the league with his 29 FG's?[/quote]

You are right replacing him may not be a priority, but he has been with 3 teams in 3 years. How much time does he need?

Giving him time to develop is not the answer. Look I despise the Patriots as much as anyone, but one thing they do right is personnel. Someone comes onboard that team and does not look good in practice, he is out the door and they find someone else. There is no "couple of years to develop". If they can't show that they are going to be an asset to the team, they are labled a liability and they hit the bricks. It is a great motivator for players to "bring it" every day.

Suisham has proven over the last 2 years in the league that he cannot be relied upon to make those high pressure field goals when the team needs it most.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[quote=hooskins;403333]Suisham is pretty good but how can you miss a 30 yarder? Matty I see what you are saying, but seriously dude you do not think this hurt our momentum? I simply cannot see how you can fool yourself into thinking otherwise.

I don't only blame him though, Saunders and play execution was terrible on that possession. If you are in the redzone in the playoffs you score no matter what, period. Cooley's drop, lack of blocking for Portis, Saunders' playcalling and Suisham's miss really really did kill us.

It is like how the Titans miss today killed their momentum and prevented it from being a 9-10 game they might have won.[/quote]

You hit it right on the head. I blame the offense for not punching it in from 14 yards out. I'm more mad about that than I am the missed FG. We also had two short yardage situations and couldn't get a yard. Two conversions would have kept drives alive. The execution by the offense was terrible all game long. I don't blame Saunders. I'm tired of using him as an excuse. I blame the players. The o-line, Moss and Cooley DID NOT get it done and Seattle was just better.

The winning streak was nice to get into the playoffs. But if we want to take it to the next level we need to start getting playoff games at home. The home field advantage clearly helped Seattle.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[quote=htownskinfan;403126]
Hey!!I resent that:laughing2
since i"m usually the one bringing up Vandy
I still dont see how bringing in the best kicker in nfl history for some competition for suisham is a bad thing[/quote]I would hardly call Vangerjagt the best kicker in history. He was a dome kicker his entire career before Dallas. Dome kickers don't even enter the discussion of greatest kicker ever IMO.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[quote=skinsfan69;403431]You hit it right on the head. I blame the offense for not punching it in from 14 yards out? I'm more mad about that than I am the missed FG. We also had two short yardage situations and couldn't get a yard. Two conversions would have kept drives alive. The execution by the offense was terrible all game long. [B]I don't blame Saunders. I'm tired of using him as an excuse. I blame the players.[/B] The o-line, Moss and Cooley DID NOT get it done and Seattle was just better.

The winning streak was nice to get into the playoffs. But if we want to take it to the next level we need to start getting playoff games at home. The home field advantage clearly helped Seattle.[/quote]The Saunders system works, but it comes down to execution, and you are 100% correct - that falls on the players.

As for home field, we could have had at least one home playoff game this year if we just finished games. Hell, we didn't finish THIS playoff game with the lead, the ball, and great field position. Until Gibbs/Saunders diagnose our red zone deficiencies, we will continue to struggle in close games.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

Vanderjagt = overrated

If he's so great why is he sitting at home right now?

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

I beg the Redskins not to follow that same path as Dallas. Please learn from you advesary's mistakes. Dallas followed that same pattern. Suisham - Vandercrack - Suisham - Grammatica. They did that in two seasons and the kicking game was deplorable in that time-frame.

Go forth, scout and find a reliable PK.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;403484]I beg the Redskins not to follow that same path as Dallas. Please learn from you advesary's mistakes. Dallas followed that same pattern. Suisham - Vandercrack - Suisham - Grammatica. They did that in two seasons and the kicking game was deplorable in that time-frame.

[B]Go forth, scout and find a reliable PK[/B].[/quote]

Or just stick with a guy who hit 29 FGs (5th in the league) and was 1 percentage point in accuracy below your boy who was a Pro Bowler.

We have other more pressing needs. No need to create another one.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

I wish I had more confidence in Suisham. He's serviceable but not a lock like Josh Brown. Next season we need to score TDs and leave the FG kicker on the bench.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

I think it's too easy to point at the missed FG and call it a momentum killer...the Skins had the ball inside the Seattle 20 and could not put it in the end zone.

The very next possession, Landry picked off his 2nd pass in 4 game minutes, and the Skins get the ball back. With a 1 point lead, the offense could not execute, went 3 and out in less than 2 minutes and put the defense back on the field clinging to a 1 point lead. To me, that is the momentum ender.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[quote=BDBohnzie;403510]I think it's too easy to point at the missed FG and call it a momentum killer...the Skins had the ball inside the Seattle 20 and could not put it in the end zone.

The very next possession, Landry picked off his 2nd pass in 4 game minutes, and the Skins get the ball back. With a 1 point lead, the offense could not execute, went 3 and out in less than 2 minutes and put the defense back on the field clinging to a 1 point lead. To me, that is the momentum ender.[/quote]

That is a good point about Landry picking off Hasselbeck again after the missed FG. We definitely had a chance to steal this game. That's why it stings so badly today.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

The final score was 34-14. You're telling me that it's the kicker's fault we didn't score an additional 21+ points?

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

[quote=BDBohnzie;403510]I think it's too easy to point at the missed FG and call it a momentum killer...the Skins had the ball inside the Seattle 20 and could not put it in the end zone.

The very next possession, Landry picked off his 2nd pass in 4 game minutes, and the Skins get the ball back. With a 1 point lead, the offense could not execute, went 3 and out in less than 2 minutes and put the defense back on the field clinging to a 1 point lead. To me, that is the momentum ender.[/quote]

I hear ya, but you can't overlook the fact they had a GOLDEN opportunity after the recovered kick to put the game away. I really believe a TD in that situation would have been a huge blow to the Seahawks that they might not have been able to recover from.

Yes Landry's INT gave us the chance to swing the momentum again, but I just can't get over the fact we had such a great opportunity after the recovered kick and we couldn't get it done.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

I'm not overlooking it, far from it. A TD would have put the kibosh on Seattle's "12th Man" permanently, and Seattle would have had an uphill battle on their hands. However, the Skins made a push and got the ball back, and did absolutely nothing with it.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

You can make a case using numbers and percentages comparing Suisham to other kickers in the league, and the numbers will be comparable. True.

But what about that "pressure-cooker" kick with the game on the line? Suisham has not proven to be that type of commodity anywhere he has played.

But as for momentum killers, the 2 picks for 6 by Collins has to be added to the equation. That will certainly kill momentum as well. But would the offense have been so aggressive in the first place HAD the FG made it through?

Just saying that having a reliable PK changes the play-calling as well as not having that reliability.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

1 missed playoff FG really isn't enough of a sample.

He's made plenty of other big kicks this season, so I'm not going to hold one kick over his head and look for his replacement because of it.

Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer
 

Didn't Suisham hit two or three game winners this year? And I still want to know how he choked in San Francisco