Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;406844]I know you're not talking to me, but I want to make myself clear by saying Marty is.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely Marty. 100 out of 100 days Marty

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;406852]Absolutely Marty. 100 out of 100 days Marty[/QUOTE]


LOL!!!! No argument from me. :D

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[quote=skinsguy;406850]You also said you wanted Cam Cameron to coach the Redskins. ;)

Between the two, I'd definitely take Marty for two reasons:
1. He knows how to build winning teams
2. He demands respect of his players

He's biggest knock is not going to or winning a Super Bowl, but he's a better HC than Norv.[/quote]

This is the one thing that a HC MUST HAVE. They guy must demand respect. Norv does not demand or command any type of respect. He also does not inspire or motivate. For the life of me I just don't know how he has gotten 3 NFL head coaching jobs. Norv should be a college coach.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy;406850]You also said you wanted Cam Cameron to coach the Redskins. ;)

Between the two, I'd definitely take Marty for two reasons:
1. He knows how to build winning teams
2. He demands respect of his players

He's biggest knock is not going to or winning a Super Bowl, but he's a better HC than Norv.[/QUOTE]

Norv was hand picked by the Squirer (JKC) and JKC was a pretty good evaluator. laugh all you want about Cam Cameron but someone is going to score big with him. By the way who was the OC in SD last year? I recall Marty passing on 4th and one inside the 10 and settling for field goals with Keating who I think is a choker also. I'll always remember Marty settling for field goals instead of going for it and paying for it in the end.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[quote=SmootSmack;406835]Should he be declared a choker for not winning a championship or one of the better coaches for getting his team that far?[/quote]Ah the great paradox of evaluating coaches.

My answer of course is neither, grade the coaches on how well their past players respect them.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;406863]Norv was hand picked by the Squirer (JKC) and JKC was a pretty good evaluator. laugh all you want about Cam Cameron but someone is going to score big with him. By the way who was the OC in SD last year? I recall Marty passing on 4th and one inside the 10 and settling for field goals with Keating who I think is a choker also. I'll always remember Marty settling for field goals instead of going for it and paying for it in the end.[/QUOTE]

JKC probably would've fired Norv if he hadn't passed away. I mean honestly, you're calling Marty a choker but praising Norv? Don't get me wrong, I supported Turner when he was here, but looking back on his head coaching career and Marty's; Schottenheimer is miles ahead of Turner.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;406865]Ah the great paradox of evaluating coaches.

My answer of course is neither, grade the coaches on how well their past players respect them.[/QUOTE]

Bottom line is. Do you want to win? If I recall the Chargers started the season at 1-3 and then 5-5, if Turner was so bad they would have folded, but instead they made a run for the playoffs and beat 2 pretty good teams in the playoffs one of them the former SB champs.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;406870]Bottom line is. Do you want to win? If I recall the Chargers started the season at 1-3 and then 5-5, if Turner was so bad they would have folded, but instead they made a run for the playoffs and beat 2 pretty good teams in the playoffs one of them the former SB champs.[/quote]Yes, I want to win.

Bottom line: I'm confused?

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;406870]Bottom line is. Do you want to win? If I recall the Chargers started the season at 1-3 and then 5-5, if Turner was so bad they would have folded, but instead they made a run for the playoffs and beat 2 pretty good teams in the playoffs one of them the former SB champs.[/QUOTE]

Of course we want to win. That's why Norv Turner isn't in Washington anymore.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

John Butler was the GM before A.J.Smith.

[url=http://espn.go.com/classic/obit/s/2003/0411/1537706.html]ESPN Classic - Butler dies of lung cancer at 56[/url]

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

SD will have to play one hell of a game to beat NE, I just don't see it happening.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;406875]John Butler was the GM before A.J.Smith.

[url=http://espn.go.com/classic/obit/s/2003/0411/1537706.html]ESPN Classic - Butler dies of lung cancer at 56[/url][/QUOTE]

It's like you don't even know I'm here

[url]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/406805-post47.html[/url]

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;406883]It's like you don't even know I'm here

[url]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/406805-post47.html[/url][/QUOTE]

Sorry I missed it.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;406870]Bottom line is. Do you want to win? If I recall the Chargers started the season at 1-3 and then 5-5, if Turner was so bad they would have folded, but instead they made a run for the playoffs and beat 2 pretty good teams in the playoffs one of them the former SB champs.[/quote]

SD didin't fold cause;
1. They have one of the best RB's of all time
2. They have the best pass rushers in the NFL
3. They have one of the best CB that Marty S. hand picked in Cromartie
4. They have one of the best o-lines in the NFL
5. They get to play Oak and Den twice, Balt and Det. That's 6 easy wins for a talented team.
6. Not because of Norv Turner

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

What misery it was to watch the Bills in four straight SB's.

Seeing the pats in it every damn year is gonna suck out loud. Not saying thats going to happen but...

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

I predicted the upset a while ago, I have a feeling it may be a looong game next weekend though.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;406887]SD didin't fold cause;
1. They have one of the best RB's of all time
2. They have the best pass rushers in the NFL
3. They have one of the best CB that Marty S. hand picked in Cromartie
4. They have one of the best o-lines in the NFL
5. They get to play Oak and Den twice, Balt and Det. That's 6 easy wins for a talented team.
6. Not because of Norv Turner[/QUOTE]

All this things you mention are because of John Butler and AJ Smith the GM's. Smith fired Marty for a reason. Are you sure AJ Smith didn't draft Cromartie? He traded Manning for Rivers was that also Marty, got rid Brees was that also Marty. If you love Marty so much how would you feel if your coach was 5-13 in the playoffs and never took you to the SB.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

I’m not a big fan of either Norv or Marty but I think you have to give Marty some credit for SD’s success this year. If GW gets the HC job and we have a great year next year, I think a lot of the credit for that should go to Gibbs as well as GW.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[quote=YellowBirdy;406916]I’m not a big fan of either Norv or Marty but I think you have to give Marty some credit for SD’s success this year. If GW gets the HC job and we have a great year next year, I think a lot of the credit for that should go to Gibbs as well as GW.[/quote]

great point.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;406899]All this things you mention are because of John Butler and AJ Smith the GM's. Smith fired Marty for a reason. Are you sure AJ Smith didn't draft Cromartie? He traded Manning for Rivers was that also Marty, got rid Brees was that also Marty. If you love Marty so much how would you feel if your coach was 5-13 in the playoffs and never took you to the SB.[/quote]

I don't love Marty. I just think he's a better HC coach than Norv. I would hire Norv as an OC if I owned a team. But not a HC. And anyone who knows anything about football would probably agree with me.

The GM is the one who is at fault for not keeping Brees. He offered him a BS contract after he hurt his shoulder. NO gave him a better contract and he bolted. Marty wanted to keep Brees. The GM did not.

The owner fired Marty, not the GM. If I remember correctly Dean Spanos said it was a bad working envirnment, or something like that. The two could not work together anymore so he sided with the GM and Marty got the boot.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

I'm sure that you could find better OC's than Norv, much like you can find better HC's. Thing is, Norv holding either position on your team does not disqualify them from playoff contention.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;406849]I'm not sure I ever said you called him a choker. If so, I apologize. SF called him a choker and I'm just saying, well to say he's a choker because of his post-season record is a fairly myopic way of seeing things.

And credit has to be given to the Broncos in that game. Both teams played great. Seems kind of ridiculous for anyone to blame Schottenheimer for that loss.[/QUOTE]

No, you didn't say that, I was just making a point of saying I never calling him a choker. I apologize for implicating you like that.

I don't think anyone is really "blaming" him for that loss, just that it's common place for him to lose in the playoffs. His teams seem to find a way to lose in the playoffs, and I think it's cause they are not willing to learn to play better teams, and adjust accordingly. Just an opinion though.
Personally, I could care less about the guy. He was hated here in Washington and deserved to be hated. So I don't care if he ever succeeds.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

I didn't hate him here in Washington

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[quote=SmootSmack;407007]I didn't hate him here in Washington[/quote]

me neither, i actually wanted him to stay.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;407007]I didn't hate him here in Washington[/QUOTE]

I meant by the players.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

You've got to feel good for ole' Norval, he's exceeded the expectations that most everyone had of him in San Diego. It would certainly be something if the Chargers knock off New England next week.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

When he sent Sprowles in with the screen play, he looked like Peter Lorre contemplating a crime, in The Year of The Norv. Best Playcaller ever.

Also, all this Norv bashing is horseshit. Norv Turner is one of the most decent human beings you will ever see. Him vs. Belichick is the starkest contrast of good vs. evil that one is likely to ever see outside of an old Hollywood melodrama. And, he has the defense to stop the Patriots a couple of times in the final ten minutes which is what their previous opponents have lacked.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

I cant believe the colts lost....I was rooting for them to win.

That being said the play calling was good and the chargers are winning games. Norv has to be some part of that.

Now lets hope they can pull another feather out of his ass and beat the pats.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;406769]As for insight, he's a cowboy who was completely useless as our head coach. Always looked defeated before we even played the game. Hell, he spent half the game whining to the officials today. Nice is great and all but it doesn't get it done. I agree with others who've said the team's success is centered around the roster and not the HC. I've never watched a Norv coached game and said, wow that was a great adjustment or what a nice call. Point's going to be moot 7 days from now anyway, after they get destroyed by NE.[/quote]

You've never watched Norv and said nice call? You don't know football. He can put a defensive weakness on the spot as well as anyone I've seen. You need to look closer.

BTW, Jerry Austin's holding flag on that Cromartie TD was complete horseshit. If that was holding then all blocking is holding.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[quote=SmootSmack;406788]I dealt with Norv Turner at least weekly behind the scenes for 2 and a half years. Decent guy, but I don't doubt for one minute that this team is winning despite him. Sure, some of it here might have been the players he had. He expected Gus Frerotte to be Troy Aikman, which he obviously wasn't. But Norv wouldn't budge. Did the same with Brad Johnson, who at least grasped things a lot better than Gus. Norv, similar to Spurrier, seemed to have no concept of what anyone beyond the QB was up to on the team. The whole locker room was filled with chaos and confusion. It was just ugly.

Now I understand he's not entirely to blame, but as the head coach he bears significant responsibility. I can't say I ever saw a time where he took charge and people said "that's our leader."

People speculate, and I would tend to agree, that Marvin Lewis was the true leader of the clubhouse while he was here with Spurrier. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar is happening in San Diego.

Norv's not a bad guy, but he shouldn't keep getting these great opportunities at the expense of others.[/quote]

The locker room sucked because of people like Brian Mitchell who we were told by the press were leaders but who now are seen for what they were - self serving douchebags. Belechik's dfense better step it up or they will get rolled by Norv's matchup brilliance. Seau and Bruschi are two slow, aging targets for exploitation.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;406997] He was hated here in Washington and deserved to be hated. So I don't care if he ever succeeds.[/QUOTE]

Actually, it was my understanding that by the end of his first year many players had bought into the Schottenheimer method. I know he ticked a lot of them off at first (Oklahoma drills, trying to tell DG how to play cornerback), but, after his turnaround at the end of the year, I thought many of the players wanted him back.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[quote=70Chip;407289]The locker room sucked because of people like Brian Mitchell who we were told by the press were leaders but who now are seen for what they were - self serving douchebags. Belechik's dfense better step it up or they will get rolled by Norv's matchup brilliance. Seau and Bruschi are two slow, aging targets for exploitation.[/quote]Actually I see this the other way: If Brady thinks he can walk right into this one and have his way with the Chargers defense because that's what worked in week two, there is no way the Pats will even put up 20 points. The Chargers defense was the weakness of that team in week 2, but over the last ten weeks, it's really emerged as the best defense in the league.

Peyton Manning had a great day passing the ball statistically on them, but when his team needed one score to win, the Chargers D said uh, uh. I don't think Tom Brady is any more capable of cracking an elite defense than Manning is. In fact, I know for sure he is not.

If the San Diego offense does it's job, this one could be 24-10 at half.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

This thread was about giving Norv a little credit for winning 8 games in a row in a tough afc, winning 2 playoff games in a row (1 against the defending SB champs in their house, w/ a backup QB in the 4th quarter and backup RB all day). Norv is not Lombardy but let's give him an ounce of credit, how about it?

Marty IS a better coach than Norv, i don't think anyone here will dispute it. Marty is a GREAT coach imo. However, Norv deserves just a little credit too for a great season so far.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[quote=70Chip;407288]You've never watched Norv and said nice call? You don't know football. He can put a defensive weakness on the spot as well as anyone I've seen. You need to look closer.

BTW, Jerry Austin's holding flag on that Cromartie TD was complete horseshit. If that was holding then all blocking is holding.[/quote]


Yea there were a lot of questionable if not false or bad no calls in that game IMO. Really poor refereeing IMO

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[quote=GTripp0012;407321]Actually I see this the other way: If Brady thinks he can walk right into this one and have his way with the Chargers defense because that's what worked in week two, there is no way the Pats will even put up 20 points. The Chargers defense was the weakness of that team in week 2, but over the last ten weeks, it's really emerged as the best defense in the league.

Peyton Manning had a great day passing the ball statistically on them, but when his team needed one score to win, the Chargers D said uh, uh. I don't think Tom Brady is any more capable of cracking an elite defense than Manning is. In fact, I know for sure he is not.

If the San Diego offense does it's job, this one could be 24-10 at half.[/quote]

Actually what hurt Indy was the fluke turnovers in the red zone. It they don't turn it over they win hands down.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[quote=skinsfan69;407438]Actually what hurt Indy was the fluke turnovers in the red zone. It they don't turn it over they win hands down.[/quote]

Why do they have to be fluke turnovers, why cant it be a good defense steeping up when its back is against the wall.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[QUOTE=Redskin;407428]Yea there were a lot of questionable if not false or bad no calls in that game IMO. Really poor refereeing IMO[/QUOTE]

It seemed a lot of the timely or bad calls favored the Colts.
I was a neutral observer of the game until the ref made that game changing and incorrect call nullifying the TD.It was a major call.
During the CBS halftime show coach Cowher and co-hosts all agreed it was a bad call and mentioned the ref by name because he has had numerous run ins with them. That ref needs to be demoted.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;406778]Anybody remember Bill Callahan taking Oak to the SB? That's how I see Norv's success this year. Schottenheimer put together a tough team and now Norv is riding those coattails as far as they'll take him.[/quote]
Yea and Schottenheimer could not even win one playoff game with basically the same talent. People have also said that Dallas head coach (forgot his name) took over a winning Parcels team and they did not win a playoff game. Like Norve or not he has won two playoff games and did so without LT and his QB. Most people thought the Colts would win the game and if you said LT and Palmer would be out no one would have given them much of a chance at all. Norve coached a great game and won which allot of good coaches could not do this week or last week.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;407288]You've never watched Norv and said nice call? You don't know football. He can put a defensive weakness on the spot as well as anyone I've seen. You need to look closer.

BTW, Jerry Austin's holding flag on that Cromartie TD was complete horseshit. If that was holding then all blocking is holding.[/QUOTE]

Let me clarify, I've never watched Norv as a head coach and said nice call. Plenty of times as a coordinator, Never as a head coach. Maybe I don't know football.

Re: Chargers and Norv
 

[quote=Redskin;407440]Why do they have to be fluke turnovers, why cant it be a good defense steeping up when its back is against the wall.[/quote]

Those were not forced turnovers IMO. But shit happens. SD had some bad calls go against them so I guess it evens out.