Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;417763]I'm not sure how he is a "better" Williams, don't even know what that means (on a side note, suppose we did hire Spagnuolo, you'd think the Giants would be calling Williams right away to be their Defensive Coordinator)

And, I'm sure I don't have to tell you that there have been plenty of great defensive coordinators that have not become great coaches.[/QUOTE]

We played the Patriots and lost 52-7.

They beat them in SuperBowl 17-14. In NFL coaches take allot of heat and credit for teams success. I'm just making a case for him and getting my head bitten off but that's ok not going to chance my opinion b/c my box is red.

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

[QUOTE=QBall;417768]We played the Patriots and lost 52-7.

They beat them in SuperBowl 17-14. In NFL coaches take allot of heat and credit for teams success. I'm just making a case for him and getting my head bitten off but that's ok not going to chance my opinion b/c my box is red.[/QUOTE]

Interesting logic

Look I don't think he's a bad option, but I just don't think he's the right option for this team.

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

[quote=QBall;417768]We played the Patriots and lost 52-7.

They beat them in SuperBowl 17-14. In NFL coaches take allot of heat and credit for teams success. I'm just making a case for him and getting my head bitten off but that's ok not going to chance my opinion b/c my box is red.[/quote]

And we split with the Giants so what does that tell you? I'll tell you what it tells me... not much.

Who's biting your head off? There are quite a few people in favor of Spags.

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;417770]And we split with the Giants so what does that tell you? I'll tell you what it tells me... not much.

Who's biting your head off? There are quite a few people in favor of Spags.[/QUOTE]

Well they shut down the best offense in America and I think coaching had allot to do with it. Our Andre Carter had a great year and can put up the same numbers in 08' as any Giant. Griffin isn't done and Golston really solid. Daniels not completely done so we pick up a stud why not Skins Defensive line the best?? Carter 15 sacks and a rookie with 7 or 8, Marcus Washington with 7 or 8 and Rocky or a new FA with 7 or 8. Landry should be pro bowl every year so why not our Defense with the right coaching.

Are we worried no offensive leadership with Spags? Play calling?

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

Say what?

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

Hey if Spags feels like the Redskins head coaching job is something that he really wants and feels strongly about then I say that they should go for it and take a shot with him. I think he needs to say something like "well I really need to meet with coach Blache before we continue further in this process so we can try and figure out if we would work well together."

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

[quote=QBall;417771]Well they shut down the best offense in America and I think coaching had allot to do with it. Our Andre Carter had a great year and can put up the same numbers in 08' as any Giant. Griffin isn't done and Golston really solid. Daniels not completely done so we pick up a stud why not Skins Defensive line the best?? Carter 15 sacks and a rookie with 7 or 8, Marcus Washington with 7 or 8 and Rocky or a new FA with 7 or 8. Landry should be pro bowl every year so why not our Defense with the right coaching.

Are we worried no offensive leadership with Spags? Play calling?[/quote]

We'll first off, putting up our line against Strahan, Uminyora, and Tuck is silly. Those are special players and there is a reason they are all-pros. Not saying we don't have good players, but they aren't that good...period.

The problem a lot of us have with Spags is the lack of HC experience combined with the fact that he is a defensive coach. While you don't HAVE to have experience to be successful in the NFL, how many first time head coaches make it into the playoffs, much less the superbowl? And further, how many that make it in their first year have terrible 2nd seasons? (The answer is a lot, Sean Payton, Mangini come to mind).

Experienced coaches have a much better track record than rookie coaches, so why saddle this team with an unproven commodity? As for the second issue, why bring in a defensive coach when you have a proven scheme, staff, and players already in place on defense? Spags will probably make a good coach in a couple years, I just don't see a great fit in Washington (now watch him get hired and win 12 games next year).

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

I guess I don’t understand all of this mess and hopefully someone with greater knowledge can explain this to me.

I feel like we are picking between the lesser of two evils as neither Mooch nor Fassel really have good pedigrees in the “Wins Department” (and let’s face it, there is really too much against Meeks and Spagnuolo to make this a four horse race). Both Mooch and Fassel are mediocre coaches at best. Sure, Mooch appears to be very likeable and personable (which is why I figure he has many Skins fan in his corner), but this isn’t a personality contest. Fassel reminds me of a watered-down schlub (as if being a schlub were otherwise exciting). Fassel isn’t going to be burning up the sideline with coaching words of wisdom or giving fans hope with his outgoing demeanor (which is apparently how we’re judging coaching competency these days). He isn’t bringing to the table a resume of wins or a history of great player/personnel choices. And let’s face it, neither he nor Mooch has fans stammering for their time like other Redskin (or high profile) coaches we know.

Think back when we learned that Gibbs was coming back, or for that matter, when we pulled Spurrier out of college. Skins fans collectively had a stain forming on the front of their pants because of the simple knowledge that these guys were bonafide winners. Mooch nor Fassel are winners, and to be honest, other than the Skins, is anyone else actually pursuing these guys for head coaching positions? There is probably a reason for that.

When Cowher’s name was being thrown around, I pretty much felt the same thing…except for the fact that he IS a better coach then both Mooch and Fassel. Unfortunately, to me, winning a single Superbowl in a decade with a team really isn’t terribly impressive. Maybe I’m biased by the pre-free-agent years of Gibbs, the Niners, Cowboys, etc. and the runs recently made by the Bronco’s, Colts and Patriots, but is a single Superbowl in a 10-year period really that great of an achievement? Maybe I’m clueless on that issue, but in the end I don’t think Cowher would have been the right fit in DC anyway. Again, a personality thing.

I guess my point is that we all seem to be polarizing ourselves to Mooch or Fassel because that is the hand we’ve been dealt by the think-tank of Snyder/Cerrato – but really, should we be impressed with their efforts considering neither of these guys have records which would lead a reasonable person to believe a new savior is coming to town? Considering this factor, WHY NOT simply give the reigns to someone new in the pool of young up-and-comers who may make a difference in this league one day. If I were given the choice to have a guaranteed 8-8 season with mediocrity across the board or the questionable stakes of an unknown person who could run the gamut or fall on their face, I guess I’d choose the young unknown person because other things have been tried, failed, and all of this mess is just a short-term attempt to fix a big problem. If either fails, they are replaceable, so why not go with the “unknown hope” instead of the “known mediocrity”? I’d even be for making amends with Schottenheimer before signing Mooch or Fassel.

Just a thought.

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;417773]Say what?[/QUOTE]

Hahahaha. Thinking big!

I'm sorry I think Andre Carter is just as good as Osi and Tuck and Strahan just has not had the career of Mike.

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

Part of me likes the "Ohh, he's new and shiny" aspect of Spags. At the same time, what do we really know about the guys ability to coach? How much of the Giants impressive D is Spags and how much is Strahan, Pierce, Tuck, and Usimhowyaspellhisname? Not sure.

As for retread coaches, and I think this point has already been made, since 2000, only two first time coaches have won the SB - Cowher who took YEARS to do it, and Brian Billick. Since then we have also had, Gruden, Bellichick, Coughlin, Dungy - all guys working with their second team.

At this point, I am looking at Fassell as the best option. I am very anti-mooch (when did he win with less than elite players?)(plus, he's a rah rah guy that I just don't see as going over well with a veteran team like the Skins).

I still would've preferred that Williams had gotten a shot, but I guess that's pretty much everybody's take.

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

[QUOTE=Redskins;417781]I guess I don’t understand all of this mess and hopefully someone with greater knowledge can explain this to me.

I feel like we are picking between the lesser of two evils as neither Mooch nor Fassel really have good pedigrees in the “Wins Department” (and let’s face it, there is really too much against Meeks and Spagnuolo to make this a four horse race). Both Mooch and Fassel are mediocre coaches at best. Sure, Mooch appears to be very likeable and personable (which is why I figure he has many Skins fan in his corner), but this isn’t a personality contest. Fassel reminds me of a watered-down schlub (as if being a schlub were otherwise exciting). Fassel isn’t going to be burning up the sideline with coaching words of wisdom or giving fans hope with his outgoing demeanor (which is apparently how we’re judging coaching competency these days). He isn’t bringing to the table a resume of wins or a history of great player/personnel choices. And let’s face it, neither he nor Mooch has fans stammering for their time like other Redskin (or high profile) coaches we know.

Think back when we learned that Gibbs was coming back, or for that matter, when we pulled Spurrier out of college. Skins fans collectively had a stain forming on the front of their pants because of the simple knowledge that these guys were bonafide winners. Mooch nor Fassel are winners, and to be honest, other than the Skins, is anyone else actually pursuing these guys for head coaching positions? There is probably a reason for that.

When Cowher’s name was being thrown around, I pretty much felt the same thing…except for the fact that he IS a better coach then both Mooch and Fassel. Unfortunately, to me, winning a single Superbowl in a decade with a team really isn’t terribly impressive. Maybe I’m biased by the pre-free-agent years of Gibbs, the Niners, Cowboys, etc. and the runs recently made by the Bronco’s, Colts and Patriots, but is a single Superbowl in a 10-year period really that great of an achievement? Maybe I’m clueless on that issue, but in the end I don’t think Cowher would have been the right fit in DC anyway. Again, a personality thing.

I guess my point is that we all seem to be polarizing ourselves to Mooch or Fassel because that is the hand we’ve been dealt by the think-tank of Snyder/Cerrato – but really, should we be impressed with their efforts considering neither of these guys have records which would lead a reasonable person to believe a new savior is coming to town? Considering this factor, WHY NOT simply give the reigns to someone new in the pool of young up-and-comers who may make a difference in this league one day. If I were given the choice to have a guaranteed 8-8 season with mediocrity across the board or the questionable stakes of an unknown person who could run the gamut or fall on their face, I guess I’d choose the young unknown person because other things have been tried, failed, and all of this mess is just a short-term attempt to fix a big problem. If either fails, they are replaceable, so why not go with the “unknown hope” instead of the “known mediocrity”? I’d even be for making amends with Schottenheimer before signing Mooch or Fassel.

Just a thought.[/QUOTE]

I guess I really don't understand why people think Fassel has proven nothing as a head coach; or why there is a feeling he can't be successful (even more so than he was during his first stint) in his second go around. I mean I know I've been harping on this aren't Coughlin and Belichik prime examples that the past isn't necessarily prologue?

One Super Bowl in 10 years may not be much I suppose but it's better than most coaches accomplish in their lifetime.

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

From Post 20 min ago, not much:

Redskins owner Daniel Snyder began courting New York Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo last night, league sources said, when the men engaged in a phone conversation. By Wednesday morning they will become much better acquainted.

Spagnuolo is set to fly to Dulles in a few hours, after the Giants parade concludes, and he will begin formally interviewing for the head coaching position tonight after Snyder completes a press conference at Redskins Park with Art Monk and Darrell Green. Spagnuolo's session is scheduled to continue into Wednesday, league sources said, and he is very excited about this opportunity.

As I pointed out in today's story, the staff issues that come with hiring a head coach last are not the end of the world in this case and they could work around much of that. If the Redskins decide that Spagnuolo is their man, then I think there would be ample mutual attraction to get a deal done. Jim Fassel has been their front runner, but this plot has changed several times already and they've left Fassel by the side of the road before. That's part of the deal when you're doing business with these guys.

I hear that the initial communication between the sides was very positive. We'll see how it goes when they get down to hashing out issues of football, strategy, personnel and staff.

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

I'd like to know a few things before getting excited about Spagnuolo as our next head coach

-How does Blache feel about the move? Will he really have the say he expects he will have?

-How do we feel about letting Zorn be the man on offense without anyone to guide him in his first year as Offensive Coordinator? Is Joe Bugel going to serve as his mentor? Is this why Don Breaux is supposedly staying on as some sort of "consultant"

-If Spagnuolo is ok with the staff that was put in place it's hard not to imagine that someone will press "tampering" charges against the team (and may win)

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

To be honest, I'm getting tired of waiting. I understand the process, though. I'd rather Snyder be thorough in his search than to hire someone in hast, but it would be nice to get this over with so we can all start speculating, whining, or being eternally optimistic for next season! ;)

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

[quote=SmootSmack;417810]If Spagnuolo is ok with the staff that was put in place it's hard not to imagine that someone will press "tampering" charges against the team (and may win)[/quote]

I doubt we have to worry about tampering. On Spags end he can say well it wasn't ideal to have a staff already in place, but the 5 year eighteen million dollar salary raise convinced me that I could get over it. I also seriously doubt Snyder made any calls or contacts before the season was over, but I could be wrong.

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;417763]I'm not sure how he is a "better" Williams, don't even know what that means (on a side note, suppose we did hire Spagnuolo, [B]you'd think the Giants would be calling Williams right away to be their Defensive Coordinator)[/B]

And, I'm sure I don't have to tell you that there have been plenty of great defensive coordinators that have not become great coaches.[/QUOTE]

Smoot your a smart man, as I was reading through this post and took a small sip of my coffee it came to me......(Spags - Williams Swap), and that scares the crap out of me. Do you know how disappointed we would all be and how good that rushing D in NY would be with Greg as their coach. It's crazy because I didn’t know if it deserved its own post or what but sit back and digest this for a minute. After you do it will make you think the chances of us getting Spag's are far less likely.

Greg is still in limbo and will be not only one of the only options available, but the best available. They will get Greg no questions asked and he will drool over the D he is inheriting. + He has practiced against our O personnel for the last few years and tears us apart. The thought of this happening will be disheartening and just down right awful. I would hate to see him coaching the Giants D next year, it just wouldn’t feel right. Then in 2-4 years he ends up taking over for old man - Coughlin, and turns into a great coach for the next 10 years beating our buts year in and year out! I have way too many other negative thoughts about this move to list, but at the end of the day do we all see what could happen just by us stealing Spag's from the G-Men. My vote is stay away from it, because the repercussions could be devastating.

If you haven’t noticed I loved Greg and really really really wanted him to be our Headman in DC.

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

[QUOTE=wilsowilso;417848]I doubt we have to worry about tampering. On Spags end he can say well it wasn't ideal to have a staff already in place, but the 5 year eighteen million dollar salary raise convinced me that I could get over it. I also seriously doubt Snyder made any calls or contacts before the season was over, but I could be wrong.[/QUOTE]

Fair point. I think calls are made all the time to "sources close to" whoever the candidates are. I think "tampering" isn't uncommon, yet not really enforced all the time.

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

[quote=SmootSmack;417866]Fair point. I think calls are made all the time to "sources close to" whoever the candidates are. I think "tampering" isn't uncommon, yet not really enforced all the time.[/quote]

Yeah you can't tell me that discussions don't happen in some capacity.

Whether it's agents talking or other people close to those involved, there is definitely a degree of tampering out there that doesn't get enforced and really how can it be monitored?

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

[quote=Mattyk72;417870]Yeah you can't tell me that discussions don't happen in some capacity.

Whether it's agents talking or other people close to those involved, there is definitely a degree of tampering out there that doesn't get enforced and really how can it be monitored?[/quote]

This probably could have it's own thread but to a certain degree tampering is a good thing. Not full-out contract negotiation, but an "expression of interest" is just healthy business practice. It is how free markets can and do work. Besides, the way teams can jerk around players and coaches on a whim essentially dictates that the staff use whatever means they can to gain a competitive advantage against their employer IMO.

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

Snyder spoke to Spags 90 min Monday

His private jet picked him up today after parade to start today

He's staying over tonight to continue Wednesday

Last time that happened Mora almost had it.

Looks like Spago all the way, anybody have bio on him???

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

[quote=GMScud;415633]Whether it's intentional or just a symptom of this exhaustive "search," Snyder is certainly giving himself an out. Regardless of the outcome of all this, no one will be able to say he wasn't thorough in his search.[/quote]

No, we'll just say he made the wrong choice, again.

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

[QUOTE=QBall;417934]Looks like Spago all the way, anybody have bio on him???[/QUOTE]

Steve Spagnuolo was hired as the Giants’ new defensive coordinator on Jan. 22, 2007. He replaced Tim Lewis, who held the position the previous three seasons.



Spagnuolo comes to the Giants after eight seasons with the Philadelphia Eagles, the last three as the club's linebackers coach. While he was in that role, middle linebacker Jeremiah Trotter was selected to two Pro Bowl berths. In 2005, Trotter was voted to the game after leading the Eagles with 169 tackles, including 13 for a loss. That season, Philadelphia led the NFL with 60 tackles for a loss, including 25 by the linebackers.

Spagnuolo was the only coach to work under highly-respected defensive coordinator Jim Johnson during his entire tenure in Philadelphia. During six of his eight seasons with the Eagles, Spagnuolo coached a player who earned Pro Bowl honors.

In his eight-year tenure in Philadelphia, Spagnuolo (pronounced SPAG-no-low) helped coach an Eagles defense that is traditionally one of the NFL’s best. In a six-year period from 1999-2005, Philadelphia’s defense ranked first in the NFL in opposing third down percentage (33 percent), second in points allowed (17.0 per game), second in sacks (265) and third in red zone defense (43.3 percent). During this period, the Eagles played in four consecutive NFC Championship Games and one Super Bowl. In 2001, the Eagles’ defense allowed fewer than 21 points in each of their 16 games, just the fourth time in league history that was accomplished.

Spagnuolo originally joined the Eagles coaching staff in 1999 as a defensive assistant/quality control coach working specifically with the team's safeties. Two years later, he was promoted to defensive backs coach, where he spent three seasons tutoring Pro Bowlers Brian Dawkins, Bobby Taylor, Troy Vincent, Lito Sheppard and Michael Lewis. In those three seasons, the Eagles pass defense ranked in the NFL's top 10 in three key statistical categories: third-down defense, touchdown passes allowed and net yards per pass attempt.

Prior to joining the Eagles, Spagnuolo coached 15 seasons in college football and two years in NFL Europe.

He spent the 1998 season as the defensive coordinator of NFL Europe's Frankfurt Galaxy, who finished second in the league in total defense en route to a World Bowl appearance. Four of the six linebackers and nine of the 11 defensive starters he tutored went on to play in the NFL. Spagnuolo also served as the defensive line and special teams coach of the Barcelona Dragons in 1992.

A native of Grafton, Mass. Spagnuolo has served as a defensive coordinator on the college level with Connecticut and Maine. In addition, he served as assistant coach at Massachusetts, Lafayette, Rutgers and Bowling Green.

Prior to his stint at Maine, Spagnuolo spent four months as a scout for the San Diego Chargers under then-general manager Bobby Beathard. His first NFL experience came in 1983 as an intern with the Washington Redskins under then-assistant general manager Charlie Casserly.

Spagnuolo played football at Springfield (Mass.) College for head coach Howard Vandersea. He was a two-year starter at wide receiver and received the school’s AAUP Male Scholar Athlete award in 1982.

Spagnuolo was born in Whitinsville, Mass. He attended Grafton High School, where he is a member of the school’s athletic Hall of Fame. Spagnuolo earned a bachelor's degree in physical education from Springfield College and a master's degree in sports management from the University of Massachusetts. He is married (Maria).



SPAGNUOLO AT A GLANCE



1982-83……………Massachusetts……………graduate Assistant

1983……………….Washington Redskins……player personnel intern

1984-86……………Lafayette…………………defensive line/special teams

1987-91……………Connecticut……………..defensive coordinator/defensive backs

1992……………….Barcelona Dragons………defensive line/special teams

1993……………….San Diego Chargers……..scout

1993-94……………Maine…………………defensive coordinator/def. backs/linebackers

1994-95……………Rutgers………………….defensive backs

1996-97……………Bowling Green………….defensive backs

1998……………….Frankfurt Galaxy………..defensive coordinator/linebackers

1999-00……………Philadelphia Eagles……..defensive assistant

2001-03……………Philadelphia Eagles……..defensive backs

2004-06……………Philadelphia Eagles……..linebackers

2007……………….New York Giants……….defensive coordinator

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

Based on that Bio, I say he has no shot....never a head coach at any level...that doesn't inspire confidence

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

I just want a coach who will succeed and last

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

[quote=skinsnut;418093]Based on that Bio, I say he has no shot....never a head coach at any level...[B]that doesn't inspire confidence[/B][/quote]

No but their performance in the playoffs and a SB ring sure does.

Re: JLC: The HC Horserace
 

HA. I loved the Barcelona Dragons (they were "my team" in the original World League, probably mainly for their uniforms).

Hire Spags. :)