Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;421550]This is not a shot just a question but How many super bowls have they won?[/QUOTE]

I think two right? Holmgren and Gruden with one each.

edit: oh you didn't mean the Holmgren tree, you meant the Seahawks? Sorry, it was the this is not a shot preface that threw me off.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

Sorry, nobody can convince me that Zorn was the worst hire of all time without even seeing him coach a single game.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

I think we could probably say this was the worst coach hiring process of all time with little dissent. The only parallel I can draw is last year's Raider's hire of Kiffin. And he didn't turn out too bad, not that he's welcome in Oakland anymore...but that's another story.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;421557]Sorry, nobody can convince me that Zorn was the worst hire of all time without even seeing him coach a single game.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

I woudl also like to posit the idea that when we discuss whether a guy is a "good hire" what he did as coach is actually irrelevant because in my mind a "good hire" is a hire that was reasonable and well though out. For example...Spurrier was actually a "good hire" that simply didn't work. No one thought he'd suck as mucha s he did. In fact most believed it was a fantastic hire at the time. It wasn't a "bad hire" it was a bad result.

Lane Kiffin was a "bad hire" there was not any good evidence that he was even a good coach and he was younger than half his team and all of hiw assistants. That's a "bad hire".

Norv Turner in SD is probably a "bad hire". He has proven every where that he isn't the greatest HC and that was a great team they handed him. It may have worked for a year but does anyone think it will last? Bad hire. When We hired him it was a "good hire".

Anyone see my point on this.

As for Zorn I am on the fence really. I suspect it is going to work if Danny gives him the time but I am wary that DS will. I think it is hard to see if this a good hire until we know how DS is going to handle this. If he gives him time and pateince it was good hire but if he just wants Zorn to come in amake some magic in two years then it was a bad hire probably.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy;421560]I think we could probably say this was the worst coach hiring process of all time with little dissent. The only parallel I can draw is last year's Raider's hire of Kiffin. And he didn't turn out too bad, not that he's welcome in Oakland anymore...but that's another story.[/QUOTE]

I'd disagree only because we have no idea what other coaching searches were like. This was our first real coaching search in the new blogging age. We have to remember that for the first time ever we had up to date minute by minute coverage of this like no other search in history. I think it is likely that many other searches go exactly this way. Maybe they have gone a little faster but in the end what so "bad" about this search? Just the fact that it took a while? They brough a bunch of people in and kicked the tires on them and eventually didn't hire any of them. It's not like they picked a name out of a hat. Zonr is a guy they hired as OC with the backing of the so called fornt runners and then when they finally whittled out all the front runners they realized well maybe the guy we already hired on the advice of so many good football people dserves a shot. And he wowed them. I fail to see how it was bad.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

I agree with FRPLG. If I were to rate the coaching search process by how quickly I was appeased then, sure, it was terrible. Instead I like to think "Hey, I'm really glad they thought this thing through and the hands-on owner is really comfortable with this hire." I've got very little issue with this coaching process...and that's in spite of me really wanting GW to be the next HC.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

I'm just wondering what major issues people had with the coaching search. Was it how long it took? Did they interview too many candiates or not enough?

Personally I think too many people got wrapped up in all the speculation and the misguided info we were receiving and took that stuff as fact.

We certainly can't say the process wasn't thorough. It probably wasn't a conventional process, but at the same time we are so keyed in on the Skins that I think everything in a situation like this is magnified. And of course when you are dealing with a high profile team and owner, that certainly doesn't help matters. I doubt that if Buffalo went through something similar it would have drawn the same amount of national attention.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;421388]I'm reserving all judgment on Zorn. To be honest, I don't remember him as a QB and I don't know how people "in the know" really view him. He could be a great hire, or he could be a miserable failure. I simply don't know.[/QUOTE]

Our staff in place and personel will not allow for a miserable failure. Just will not happen this year. Maybe he could screw this up years down the line but we're solid right now.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

Meh. Another blogger trying to make a name for himself by saying something outrageous.

[IMG]http://extensibletech.com/images/douche.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=mheisig;421603]Meh. Another blogger trying to make a name for himself by saying something outrageous.

[IMG]http://extensibletech.com/images/douche.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]




NICE!

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;421591]I'm just wondering what major issues people had with the coaching search. Was it how long it took? Did they interview too many candiates or not enough?

Personally I think too many people got wrapped up in all the speculation and the misguided info we were receiving and took that stuff as fact.

We certainly can't say the process wasn't thorough. It probably wasn't a conventional process, but at the same time we are so keyed in on the Skins that I think everything in a situation like this is magnified. And of course when you are dealing with a high profile team and owner, that certainly doesn't help matters. I doubt that if Buffalo went through something similar it would have drawn the same amount of national attention.[/QUOTE]

I think it was a lot of things with the catalyst being that GW [I]wasnt[/I] hired. IMO - It was a held as an universal truth among fans that GW was going to be hired. Not only hired but hired quickly. The only delay being - "who will be the minority interview?". Then mystification as to why GW wasn't hired quickly. Then, God forbid, "Fassel? FASSEL? Instead of motivator/kick ass coach GW, we're getting fish faced, 'my superbowl team devolved into an undisciplined mass', Fassell? WTF are you thinking Danny boy???"

Once the shock of "it's not going to be GW" wore off, the cloak and dagger approach to the hiring just stoked the coals.

On top of ALL that - the habitual little lies of the front office ("Zorn was our first choice" righhhhhtttt) just pissed people off.

Look, I wanted GW. I had come around to Fassell and am cautiously optimistic about Zorn. But DS's cloak and dagger approach to the whole thing only brings down and intensifies the anti-DS crowd.

I have always been one who believed that honesty and appropriate disclosure are the best ways to deflect criticism - that and the balls to admit, openly, "I f***** up." DS's approach is one of aloof stonewalling and petty dishonesty (or, with a positive spin, "plausible deniabilty").

It's his toy, I only pay to support it (fool that I am), and, if that's how he wants to play it, well, then he will always invite criticism.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;421591]I'm just wondering what major issues people had with the coaching search. Was it how long it took? Did they interview too many candiates or not enough?

Personally I think too many people got wrapped up in all the speculation and the misguided info we were receiving and took that stuff as fact.

We certainly can't say the process wasn't thorough. It probably wasn't a conventional process, but at the same time we are so keyed in on the Skins that I think everything in a situation like this is magnified. And of course when you are dealing with a high profile team and owner, that certainly doesn't help matters. I doubt that if Buffalo went through something similar it would have drawn the same amount of national attention.[/QUOTE]

See, in my opinion, we're confusing "thorough" with "drawn-out." Yes, it took a long time and there were many candidates interviewed, but the methodology seemed poorly conceived.

First, there's the infamous "cotinuity" spiel at the presser when JG stepped down.

Second, GW has had the "next head coach of the Washington Redskins" label for about 2 yrs plus the support of just about every player on the roster as well as the fans.

Third, what's with multiple 12 hr interview sessions? There's thorough and then there's bizarre. Maybe other teams do this but I've just never heard of it.

Fourth, DS hired his assistants before HC making this a situation that not too many head coaches would want to sign up for.

Fifth, the fact that this was a PR fiasco, punctuated by the fact that we were all set to hire Fassel but because there was a huge collective "no effing way" from Redskins fans, DS got gun shy. Next, we set our sites on Spags but he took a look at the situation and said "thanks but no thanks."

6th, after getting shot down by Spags, DS decides to go with Zorn and we're supposed to believe that DS was so blown away by his initial interview that he thought immediately this guy was a head coaching option? If he was that good, why had not one other team had him on their radar? Does Dan just have an eye for coaching talent? I'm skeptical.

In the end, the choice came off as a fall back option, imo. If you look solely at the time it took, then yes, it's easy to come to the conclusion that it was a well thought out coaching search. But if you actually look at the various missteps along the way, I don't think that's what it was. I'm not saying this will be a bad hire, as I have absolutely no idea what to expect next year. I am saying that this coaching search served the purpose of worsening the Redskins organization's reputation around the league.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

I'm just not convinced that the coaching search process would have been widely applauded no matter what happened.

Let's face it, it boils down to they didn't do what we wanted. We wanted GW, and as a result we were going to be upset with just about anything. The fans collectively stomped their feet and pouted when GW wasn't automatically handed the job and everything quickly went downhill from there. GW was never officially anointed as the successor to Gibbs except in the eyes of the fans and some false rumor that he had a contract stipulation.

The continuity thing is so overrated. Yes Snyder spoke of continuity but at the same time look at the staff. Several key coaches are back. What exactly does continuity mean anyway? Does it mean zero turnover? Because that was unlikely to happen no matter who got the job. If GW got the job and let some guys go and brought in some of his guys I doubt we would be hearing about the continuity excuse.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy;421620]See, in my opinion, we're confusing "thorough" with "drawn-out." Yes, it took a long time and there were many candidates interviewed, but the methodology seemed poorly conceived.

First, there's the infamous "cotinuity" spiel at the presser when JG stepped down.
[/quote]
Best laid plans my friend.
[quote]
Second, GW has had the "next head coach of the Washington Redskins" label for about 2 yrs plus the support of just about every player on the roster as well as the fans.
[/quote]
He only had that label from the fans. If you recall after 2006 he was very much in the dog house for how poorly the defense performed and rumors at that time started leaking out that they weren't so thrilled with the idea of him becoming a HC. The players did respect him an that was a main reason I wanted him but in the end the players play and the owenr owns. it is his team and if he felt GW wasn't the right guy going forward who are we or even the players to say he is wrong.
[quote]
Third, what's with multiple 12 hr interview sessions? There's thorough and then there's bizarre. Maybe other teams do this but I've just never heard of it.
[/quote]
Ok so you have never heard of it but when trying to find leader who can direct your team and work with you then maybe taking some time to get to know the guy on a more personal level is actually a good idea. I think many are confusing their idea of what an interview is with what actually happened. I am pretty sure they didn't just sit at a table and ask him questions and then listen to responses for 12 hours. They talked a lot about vision, direction and then specifically about plans. For a football team with complicated mechanisms and personell issues 12 hour "interviews" to discuss all aspects seems rather reasonable in my opinion.
[quote]
Fourth, DS hired his assistants before HC making this a situation that not too many head coaches would want to sign up for.
[/quote]
I'll grant you this but Zorn seemd ok with it so who knows.
[quote]
Fifth, the fact that this was a PR fiasco, punctuated by the fact that we were all set to hire Fassel but because there was a huge collective "no effing way" from Redskins fans, DS got gun shy. Next, we set our sites on Spags but he took a look at the situation and said "thanks but no thanks."
[/quote]
Well "PR fiasco" is an opinion. Maybe PR overload is better term in my opinion.
And I think you are generally wrong when it comes to why Fassel wasn't hired. He wasn't hired because VC didn't want to hire him. VC is responsible for that and I have no idea why people think DS cares what the fans think. Most fans think DS doesn't care at all what they think so why would this be any different?
[quote]
6th, after getting shot down by Spags, DS decides to go with Zorn and we're supposed to believe that DS was so blown away by his initial interview that he thought immediately this guy was a head coaching option? If he was that good, why had not one other team had him on their radar? Does Dan just have an eye for coaching talent? I'm skeptical.
[/quote]
Now we're into specualtion. The two sides are that Spags turned them down and that they didn't want Spags. By most reports they enevr offered him a job and honestly does he seem like the kind of hire that they would have exchewed being thorugh with and just offer him a job. It makes a lot mroe sense that they interviewed him and wasn't very impressed. JLC reported as much. In the end I don't know but I know I don't buy at all that he turned them down. Seriously, a newbie co-ordinator whose defense was really only marginal and only because of the d-line? That sounds like someone DS is dying to hire? Count me as a disbeliever.

[quote]
In the end, the choice came off as a fall back option, imo. If you look solely at the time it took, then yes, it's easy to come to the conclusion that it was a well thought out coaching search. But if you actually look at the various missteps along the way, I don't think that's what it was. I'm not saying this will be a bad hire, as I have absolutely no idea what to expect next year. I am saying that this coaching search served the purpose of worsening the Redskins organization's reputation around the league.[/QUOTE]

What missteps? And I would argue our reputation around the league is as low as it can go and only will go up when we win a SB anyways so what the hell do we care? Players love playing for us because we pay and that's all that matters.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

Every written report regarding the hiring process said that Fassell was set to be hired but the negative fan reaction caused DS to rethink it. As far as Spags shooting us down- that doesn't mean that we offered him the job, it means he withdrew his name from consideration before we even got the chance. I agree you could see this a number of different ways but it looked to me like he got a look at our operations and thought that he would be well served not to have this be his first head coaching job.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;421647] Players love playing for us because we pay and that's all that matters.[/QUOTE]

See that's the worst thing about this team. I hate that reputation. I'd rather be something akin to the Pats and Eagles (two teams that I despise) who are known for winning and fiscal responsibility. But whatever.

The other thing that really worries me is that some people (Ross Tucker for one, link in another thread) are saying that Cerrato wanted Zorn because he didn't want his authority challenged by an experienced head coach. IF and that's a big IF, that's true we are screwed.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

It's also worth noting that Tucker said this:

[QUOTE]That said, even though Snyder has made his fair share of poor decisions, I've always respected him for the simple fact that he is willing to do whatever it takes to attempt to bring a championship to Washington. Though Snyder's attempts are at times misguided, the effort is appreciated by those within the locker room.

When you hear first-hand accounts as a player about how some other owners and organizations around the league run their respective franchises with both eyes on the financial bottom line, it becomes clear why Snyder is endearing to many members of the team. Players, after all, always respect great effort. Snyder has never faltered in that area; his marathon interview sessions are the latest example of that.[/QUOTE]

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;421536]I don't know how long it will take. But I think he has some solid coaches to help him through, and Holmgren's coaching tree is pretty solid overall and regardless of him not being a coordinator in Seattle the fact is that he was side by side with Holmgren for several years and certainly must have learned a lot from him.[/QUOTE]

That is what I am hoping for! That is likely what everyone is hoping for.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[quote=Mattyk72;421670]It's also worth noting that Tucker said this:
Quote:
That said, even though Snyder has made his fair share of poor decisions, I've always respected him for the simple fact that he is willing to do whatever it takes to attempt to bring a championship to Washington. Though Snyder's attempts are at times misguided, the effort is appreciated by those within the locker room.

When you hear first-hand accounts as a player about how some other owners and organizations around the league run their respective franchises with both eyes on the financial bottom line, it becomes clear why Snyder is endearing to many members of the team. Players, after all, always respect great effort. Snyder has never faltered in that area; his marathon interview sessions are the latest example of that.
[/quote]

And this: (a concern shared by some fans, I think).

Quote:
Redskins' players often wonder whether Snyder's allegiance to Cerrato has more to do with their professional or their personal relationship. It is no secret that the two are racquetball partners and close friends, in addition to being colleagues in the Redskins front office.


Tucker was totally non-committal in that piece. The FO structure is what it is at this point, we'll see how it goes (or if it shifts over time, with Scott Campbell moving more into full control of player personel), but the I think the bottom line to a lot of the concern is the power that Cerrato is wielding at the Park. Maybe he'll prove everyone wrong with his deft handling of things, but concerns about Cerrato lay at the bottom of a lot of the angst felt by those with concerns I'd say.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy;421652]Every written report regarding the hiring process said that Fassell was set to be hired but the negative fan reaction caused DS to rethink it. As far as Spags shooting us down- that doesn't mean that we offered him the job, it means he withdrew his name from consideration before we even got the chance. I agree you could see this a number of different ways but it looked to me like he got a look at our operations and thought that he would be well served not to have this be his first head coaching job.[/QUOTE]

I've read numerous reports and not said that. Some SPECULATED that but none reported it as fact. I guess it's true...if you tell a lie enough it becomes the truth.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;421659]See that's the worst thing about this team. I hate that reputation. I'd rather be something akin to the Pats and Eagles (two teams that I despise) who are known for winning and fiscal responsibility. But whatever.

The other thing that really worries me is that some people (Ross Tucker for one, link in another thread) are saying that Cerrato wanted Zorn because he didn't want his authority challenged by an experienced head coach. IF and that's a big IF, that's true we are screwed.[/quote]What the Pats and Eagles do (and to a lesser extent the Packers, Titans, Colts, and Chargers) with fiscal responsibility is really just a microchosm of a grander scheme of understanding why teams win, and adjusting their team building properties accordingly.

To be honest, the Skins aren't THAT far off the pace of those teams, and share a lot of the same philosophies. The Skins actually adhere to many principles of fiscal responsibility, and really try to attack the market when it is weakest.

The way we attack the cap is by design, but the plan has gone critically wrong at a few key steps which has prevented this team from getting to the top of the league. Namely, if Lloyd and Archuleta had even a small percentage of a positive effect on the overall on-field talent, those contracts would look great in hindsight. The fact that they were both useless players absoulely backed this team up to the brink of disaster.

Here's the only difference in philosophy between us and New England: When the Pats miss, it's on a second round receiver like Bethel Johnson or Chad Jackson who plays three seasons and then gets cut. When we miss, it costs the team $15 million in cap dollars and triple that in oppertunity costs/draft picks.

Basically, I'm saying the "Redskins way" will work as soon as the team stops missing so badly on a couple of players. Then again, the team is one critical miss away from being so capped out that they have to dismantle the whole thing. Thus...forced to draft smartly.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;421740] Then again, the team is one critical miss away from being so capped out that they have to dismantle the whole thing. Thus...forced to draft smartly.[/QUOTE]

That's kind of like "backing into the playoffs" isn't it? lol. whatever. As long as we can get set up for sustained success (winning seasons, playoffs) I'll be happy.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;421734]I've read numerous reports and not said that. Some SPECULATED that but none reported it as fact. I guess it's true...if you tell a lie enough it becomes the truth.[/QUOTE]

Perception can be reality. Reported as fact, or reported as speculation, that's what was reported. I don't have any inside info, so I'm left looking at this from my limited perspective. Not claiming to be "in the know." That said, what I've posted above is my opinion on why people are so negative towards this move. Take it for what it's worth. I will say this, has anyone seen a single report that DS wasn't impressed with Fassel and decided not to offer him the job? All along it was Fassell, Fassell, Fassell, Fans Pissed Off, ok here's Zorn. Incorrect conclusion perhaps, but that's sure what it looked like from here.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;421740]What the Pats and Eagles do (and to a lesser extent the Packers, Titans, Colts, and Chargers) with fiscal responsibility is really just a microchosm of a grander scheme of understanding why teams win, and adjusting their team building properties accordingly.

To be honest, the Skins aren't THAT far off the pace of those teams, and share a lot of the same philosophies. The Skins actually adhere to many principles of fiscal responsibility, and really try to attack the market when it is weakest.

The way we attack the cap is by design, but the plan has gone critically wrong at a few key steps which has prevented this team from getting to the top of the league. Namely, if Lloyd and Archuleta had even a small percentage of a positive effect on the overall on-field talent, those contracts would look great in hindsight. The fact that they were both useless players absoulely backed this team up to the brink of disaster.

Here's the only difference in philosophy between us and New England: When the Pats miss, it's on a second round receiver like Bethel Johnson or Chad Jackson who plays three seasons and then gets cut. When we miss, it costs the team $15 million in cap dollars and triple that in oppertunity costs/draft picks.

Basically, I'm saying the "Redskins way" will work as soon as the team stops missing so badly on a couple of players. Then again, the team is one critical miss away from being so capped out that they have to dismantle the whole thing. Thus...forced to draft smartly.[/QUOTE]
This jives with my thinking. The way we do things is not the problem. It has been the talent evaluation that has caused problems. If Arch is the player they thought he was then that move looks like a bargain at this point. Same with Lloyd. I actually like the way we approach things except for one fact. We need to start drafting linemen and using FA as the way to add skill. Skill players are pretty hit and miss mostly while linemen, bot defense and offense, are much easier to scout and usually come cheaper. If we start picking linemen with our good picks we'd be in better shape.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;421642]I'm just not convinced that the coaching search process would have been widely applauded no matter what happened.

Let's face it, it boils down to they didn't do what we wanted. We wanted GW, and as a result we were going to be upset with just about anything. The fans collectively stomped their feet and pouted when GW wasn't automatically handed the job and everything quickly went downhill from there. GW was never officially anointed as the successor to Gibbs except in the eyes of the fans and some false rumor that he had a contract stipulation.

The continuity thing is so overrated. Yes Snyder spoke of continuity but at the same time look at the staff. Several key coaches are back. What exactly does continuity mean anyway? Does it mean zero turnover? Because that was unlikely to happen no matter who got the job. If GW got the job and let some guys go and brought in some of his guys I doubt we would be hearing about the continuity excuse.[/QUOTE]


EXCELLENT Post. you summed up my feelings exactly. Redskins Fans are particularly fickle, and I think even if we promoted Williams, a lot of fans would be griping that Snyder DIDN'T go after Cowher or some other big name. As much as my heart wanted GW, now that i've had time to process everything, i think NOT getting GW was a good decision. But I can't say any of the other candidates out there would have made me comfortable with our coaching situation.

Truth be told, Gibbs couldn't have left at a worse time. There were really NO good solid HC candidates out there. Now next year will be another matter entirely. If Gibbs had just stayed one more year, we would have had a much better pool of candidates to select from.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;421751]This jives with my thinking. The way we do things is not the problem. It has been the talent evaluation that has caused problems. If Arch is the player they thought he was then that move looks like a bargain at this point. Same with Lloyd. I actually like the way we approach things except for one fact. We need to start drafting linemen and using FA as the way to add skill. Skill players are pretty hit and miss mostly while linemen, bot defense and offense, are much easier to scout and usually come cheaper. If we start picking linemen with our good picks we'd be in better shape.[/QUOTE]

Well i think we have made progress there. Arch was GW's pick and his alone. Cerrato fought it. Gibbs backed GW and got him what he wanted. Llloyd... that was ALL Gibbs. The D linemen we got in the draft, Blanche undoubtably had alot to do with them... the people responsible for most of the bad personnel decisions this organization has made in recent years are gone. The people responsible for the good ones are still here.

Cerrato will be a good GM. He's a good personnel guy. Sure, he's made some big mistakes... but not recently. I seriously expect all but one or two of our offseason acquisitions (FA and draft) to pan out under his management.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[quote=talk show host;421755]EXCELLENT Post. you summed up my feelings exactly. Redskins Fans are particularly fickle, and I think even if we promoted Williams, a lot of fans would be griping that Snyder DIDN'T go after Cowher or some other big name. As much as my heart wanted GW, now that i've had time to process everything, i think NOT getting GW was a good decision. But I can't say any of the other candidates out there would have made me comfortable with our coaching situation.

[B]Truth be told, Gibbs couldn't have left at a worse time. There were really NO good solid HC candidates out there. Now next year will be another matter entirely. If Gibbs had just stayed one more year, we would have had a much better pool of candidates to select from[/B].[/quote]

Not only that but I think with the sudden way he left he really put Snyder in a bind. A few weeks earlier it was reported that Snyder was going to offer Gibbs an extension, and I think a lot of us expected him to sign it. At the very least it was expected that he would finish out his 5 year term. His retirement caught everyone off guard and left Snyder scrambling to put together a plan. I'm not trying to blame Gibbs, I think it was a bit of a sudden decision for himself and he probably didn't want to leave Snyder in a difficult situation, but it is what it is.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;421300]Only time will tell whether or not he's going to be a good HC. I'd would've rather had Fassel than Zorn. Hiring a HC w/out HC or OC experience is risk. Now we're about to hire a OC that's never even called plays? So we could potentially have a HC and an OC that's never called plays in the NFL?? Sigh...... Sorry but Fassel looks really good right about now.[/QUOTE]

Andy Reid started out as a Quarterback coach and went straight to being a head coach with the Eagles; ditto with Mooch as well. There is more to being a coach than X's and O's. They have got to be a motivator and make the players respect and want to play for them. In my opinion I think Zorn has those qualities where as Fassel did not. Maybe he will be a bust, maybe he will be a great coach untili the the season starts no one knows.

I for one say give him a chance and lets see what he has.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;421400]This guy from FoxSports is arguably worse. He describes two different coaches the same way, with completely opposite opinions on the two.

[url=http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/7786432/Putting-wacky-coach-carousel-in-perspective]FOX Sports on MSN - Adam Schein - Putting wacky coach carousel in perspective[/url][/QUOTE]

I really don't care what Adam Shein writes about the Redskins...my issue with him is that I have Sirius Satelite Radio and he is by far the worst radio talk show host I have ever heard. His big booming phony radio voice is intollerable, he constantly agrees with his cohost which does not exactly make for interesting discussions and he alwasy pats himself on the back for their endless parade of softball tossing player interviews. Someone needs to tell that blowhard that it's "NFL Radio", which means it isn't that big an accomplishement to get NFL players to pick up the phone! I could go on all night...I can't stomach that blowhard.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

I'm very optomistic about Zorn. My only fear is that he goes 7-9 or better and Snyder gives him the axe to go after Cowher next year. Now if we are 4-12 or worse, i would agree with such a move, but this team has way too much talent to be less than 5-11, even under a new regime.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[quote=talk show host;421789]I'm very optomistic about Zorn. My only fear is that he goes 7-9 or better and Snyder gives him the axe to go after Cowher next year. Now if we are 4-12 or worse, i would agree with such a move, but this team has way too much talent to be less than 5-11, even under a new regime.[/quote]


Do you honestly believe that Cowher would come here if Snyder did that and would'nt give him total control?

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[quote=talk show host;421789]I'm very optomistic about Zorn. My only fear is that he goes 7-9 or better and Snyder gives him the axe to go after Cowher next year. Now if we are 4-12 or worse, i would agree with such a move, but this team has way too much talent to be less than 5-11, even under a new regime.[/quote]

I loved the Cowher fantasy too but now it's time to come back to reality and realize that Cowher isn't going to come here. Ever. Unless Danny just hands the whole team over to him and after all of this hiring and firing we've done this season setting up a whole new team around WCO just for Zorn... Forget about it.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;421793]Do you honestly believe that Cowher would come here if Snyder did that and would'nt give him total control?[/QUOTE]


I want to be content with getting Cower out of my system all together, because I do not think Snyder would fire Zorn even if he's not wholly successful in his first year.

On the other hand, what would be considered success for this team in 2008? Would anything short of a playoff apearence be considered a failure? I'm more concerned with the fan reaction to Zorn if he struggles some in this his initial season.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[quote=Longtimefan;421804]I want to be content with getting Cower out of my system all together, because I do not think Snyder would fire Zorn even if he's not wholly successful in his first year.

On the other hand, what would be considered success for this team in 2008? Would anything short of a playoff apearence be considered a failure? I'm more concerned with the fan reaction to Zorn if he struggles some in this his initial season.[/quote]

Success to me, depending on how much we change the team around would be anything above .500, so I guess that would mean at least a wild card appearance.

I don't know if I could say no playoff appearance = failure but it sure would prove the dissenters right.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

I don't get the love for Cowher. Count me as firmly in the "he's overrated bigtime" group. I haven't one clue why everyone thinks he a savior. He was never a personell guy in Pittsburg and definitely has a Marty Schottenheimer feel to him. You that feeling that he really is only like 10-6 type coach who has trouble winning the big ones. He did get a SB but 1 in 12 years really isn't all that great. Don't get me wrong I don't think he is a bad coach but I am not convinced he is as great as many would like to believe.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

I think we have playoff potential. If we play well and miss the playoffs I'd be ok. I am more worried about us simply playing poorly. Given good health and solid gameplans I think we are a playoff team. Anything less than solid play wouldn't be success to me.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;421812]I don't get the love for Cowher. Count me as firmly in the "he's overrated bigtime" group. I haven't one clue why everyone thinks he a savior. He was never a personell guy in Pittsburg and definitely has a Marty Schottenheimer feel to him. You that feeling that he really is only like 10-6 type coach who has trouble winning the big ones. He did get a SB but 1 in 12 years really isn't all that great. Don't get me wrong I don't think he is a bad coach but I am not convinced he is as great as many would like to believe.[/QUOTE]

Amen! Cowher is so overrated...he was somehow cleansed by that improbable super bowl run a couple years ago. He had so many high seeds go belly up at home in the playoffs. He is a total Shotenheimer except for that one playoff run. Good coach but nothing special. You listen to the media talk and its like Canton is preparing his bust...

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;421807]Success to me, depending on how much we change the team around would be anything above .500, so I guess that would mean at least a wild card appearance.

I don't know if I could say no playoff appearance = failure but it sure would prove the dissenters right.[/QUOTE]


That's one of the problems I envision on the horizon, no playoff apearence and the pessimists will have fuel to raise their voices. The expectations are going to be high [as well they should be] despite the fact we have a new HC with minimal, to no experience in the position. Under normal circumstances one would think that fact alone would warrant a grace period.

However, Zorn has inherited a playoff team in a division with no team playing under 500, that automatically raises the competitive level as well what's expected from the team standpoint.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;421400]This guy from FoxSports is arguably worse. He describes two different coaches the same way, with completely opposite opinions on the two.

[URL="http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/7786432/Putting-wacky-coach-carousel-in-perspective"]FOX Sports on MSN - Adam Schein - Putting wacky coach carousel in perspective[/URL][/quote]

LOL what a joke

:doh:

Perhaps even worse, he doesn't even understand the Rooney rule and how it applies to hiring from within:

[quote][B]Mora's the man, but were rules violated?[/B]

Mike Holmgren announced that he's coming back to Seattle for 2008 but it would be his final season in the great Northwest. Instead of having a farewell tour and lame duck situation surrounding the team, Tim Ruskell and Paul Allen appointed Jim Mora as Holmgren's replacement.


For the record, I love Mora. He's energetic, experienced, and did a great job with the Seattle defensive backs this past season. And if you blamed him for anything that happened during his run in Atlanta, he was certainly exonerated over the last 365 days.


But I am wondering aloud how this appointment affects the Rooney Rule, or at least the spirit of the Rooney Rule. Isn't the Rooney Rule about opportunity for minority candidates? Technically, you don't violate the rule by promoting within from your own staff. But it still doesn't seem right. The Steelers didn't name a successor for Bill Cowher, and that led them down a surprising path to Mike Tomlin, who has turned out to be perfect.


This appointment costs a minority candidate a chance to interview and impress and that is highly unfortunate.[/quote]A quick google search on "Rooney Rule" shows this:

[quote]However, the rule does not apply if an assistant coach has language in his contract guaranteeing him the starting job in case of an opening. [URL="http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/01/the_rooney_rule.html"][1][/URL] This was the case when [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Martz"]Mike Martz[/URL] took over as head coach of the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis_Rams"]St. Louis Rams[/URL] before the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000"]2000[/URL] season.[/quote]I think this guy owes me for doing his research for him.

Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;421815]I think we have playoff potential. If we play well and miss the playoffs I'd be ok. I am more worried about us simply playing poorly. Given good health and solid gameplans I think we are a playoff team. Anything less than solid play wouldn't be success to me.[/QUOTE]

How many playoff games did they lose at home over the years? Wasn't it like 3 or 4 in the championship game alone?