Re: Loose Change
 

I'm always up for a good discussion but, whats the point? I can believe YOU wont bust out with a retard or moron but, there is no reason to speak MY OPINION on a situation after the way I've been treated every time I've done so.

I really like this site and have been here for a while. I never post a whole lot but every F-ing time I do, this is what I get. You all think that if someone is misinformed or that they don't see it the way you do, he's an idiot. A moron. Even 2 of the sites MODS called me a moron!

Whatever! The mods are supposed to be voices or reason where reason is scarce, correct? Arent they meant to moderate the forums? Not spout BS just because they feel they can. At this point, it's not about the Loose Change discussion, IMO, it's become a discussion of the poor way the Mods and everyone else handled this. It was posted in Parking Lot, right? And that's where most nonsensical BS goes , right? SO thats where I put. I liked the video and after the first time I watched it, yes, I believed A LOT of what was presented in the video. Now, because I failed to spend 3 hours watching more stuff on YouTube about it and because I brought up the fact that 2000F heat cant melt that kinda steel, suddenly I'm a conspiracy theorist who refuses to look at the other side of the coin.

Whatever, I don't want anything from you all and I never have. I posted it to entertain myself because, as I stated before, I liked the movie and thought it made sense. Then everybody wants to jump on their high-horse and tell me how fking dumb I am? Again, WTF ever.

Re: Loose Change
 

There is no doubt in my mind that the Bush administration benefited (by assuming more power) by the attacks of 9/11. This is one of the driest, but must informative videos on the net about the conspiracy.

One of the most skeptical human beings on the planet earth, Noam Chomsky, addresses the issue.


[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzGd0t8v-d4&feature=related"]YouTube - Noam Chomsky on 911 conspiracy par1[/URL]
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoDqDvbgeXM"]YouTube - Noam Chomsky on 911 conspiracy part 2[/URL]

Re: Loose Change
 

No reply? No, "You're an idiot spitting in the face of this country"? Wow. I AM now officially surprised.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=JGisLordOfTheRings;422989]I'm always up for a good discussion but, whats the point? I can believe YOU wont bust out with a retard or moron but, there is no reason to speak MY OPINION on a situation after the way I've been treated every time I've done so.

I really like this site and have been here for a while. I never post a whole lot but every F-ing time I do, this is what I get. You all think that if someone is misinformed or that they don't see it the way you do, he's an idiot. A moron. Even 2 of the sites MODS called me a moron!

Whatever! The mods are supposed to be voices or reason where reason is scarce, correct? Arent they meant to moderate the forums? Not spout BS just because they feel they can. At this point, it's not about the Loose Change discussion, IMO, it's become a discussion of the poor way the Mods and everyone else handled this. It was posted in Parking Lot, right? And that's where most nonsensical BS goes , right? SO thats where I put. I liked the video and after the first time I watched it, yes, I believed A LOT of what was presented in the video. Now, because I failed to spend 3 hours watching more stuff on YouTube about it and because I brought up the fact that 2000F heat cant melt that kinda steel, suddenly I'm a conspiracy theorist who refuses to look at the other side of the coin.

Whatever, I don't want anything from you all and I never have. I posted it to entertain myself because, as I stated before, I liked the movie and thought it made sense. Then everybody wants to jump on their high-horse and tell me how fking dumb I am? Again, WTF ever.[/QUOTE]

Ok, fine. Sorry for calling you a moron.

As for the mods being the voice of reason, that doesn't mean we're not entitled to our opinions. And I would hardly call what anyone of us spouted BS.

It's my opinion that you've started some pretty good threads overall. But the last two-this one and the Tom Cruise one-probably weren't among the best ever on this site.

But this one at least can be discussed, if you're willing to discuss it. But understand that this is an extremely sensitive topic. We're not talking about whether Joe Gibbs or Al Saunders is calling the plays here.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=JGisLordOfTheRings;422992]No reply? No, "You're an idiot spitting in the face of this country"? Wow. I AM now officially surprised.[/QUOTE]

Was making a sandwich, sorry.

Re: Loose Change
 

I agree. Anytime you speak of politics and/or religion on a SPORTS site, you're bound for trouble. I probably should've seen that coming in, it just never struck me. I agree, the last 2 threads I started we're reasonably worthless, especially the Cruise one but, maybe that one would've done better in the Parking Lot, who knows....I agree Mods are entitled to their opinions, there's NO WAY I'm trying to imply that they are Mods and therefore shouldn't speak their mind, I'm just saying that, people on the site look up to you all as the example of how to act on the site and it was my belief that 4-5 people just coming out and flat out attacking me by calling me a moron and such, was bad taste. It was childish and it shows the lack of maturity in a lot of those that did.

Now my responses to those attacks we're very childish as well, as I am not afraid to admit. But, just because I bring up a matter that I have not researched for the last 4 years before I posted it, doesn't make me an idiot! I went str8 from watching that video the posting it on here and my starter post only said...."Make you think a little, huh?"

Agreed, I did NOT do the proper research on the matter before I posted but I wasnt thinking this would turn into a HEATED debate. Again, I repeat, I thought it was a good movie, IMO it raised a lot of valid points and stated a lot of facts and it seemed to me that the guy who did it, had done his homework. ALL that coupled with the fact that I HATE GW and the direction our country is going on with the War and all, it just lit a fire under my ass. After everyone had posted links to articles and other movies and such, I took the time out of my day the research the things that were brought up. But, low and behold, after my research I intend to post an opinion and what is the 1st thing I see when I hit the site?

JGLOTR IS A MORON!
HE'S SPITTING IN THE FACES OF THOSE THAT DIED!
IDIOT!

What kinda welcome is that after I'm trying to be part of a discussion? None at all. I was so angry that I had taken the time to check out the things you had showed me and before I can even respond, you all are saying how I refuse to look at the facts and blah blah blah....didn't really endear me to the situation at all.

Re: Loose Change
 

Ok, you're right it's not a good welcome. Sorry again

Now, what do you think of the movie now?

Re: Loose Change
 

As I said before, I think it brought up a lot of valid points. It did a decent job of making you believe what the author WANTED you to believe. But, factual information inside of the movie was few and far between. Now, personally, movie or not, I think 9-11 WAS a tragedy that was known of before it happened and was handled poorly by our country. It bugs me that a lot of things they say are so dumb and they expect us to believe them. Like the whole passport thing, you mean to tell me that a plane crashed into a building and I'm supposed to believe you found a passport of one of the terrorists in the streets of Manhattan AFTERWARDS?!? Thats a little far fetched but then again, this entire story is on BOTH sides. It's bad when you cant trust your GOV. enough to tell you the truth. It's worse when that trust is so bad that you believe 90% of what is thrown at you that says the Gov is lying to you.

Again, it was an interesting video with a few far-and-between facts, but I was not aware of the actual premise of the movie before I posted. If I had known it was meant to be a work of fiction presented as a documentary, I dont think this discussion would even be taking place.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=JGisLordOfTheRings;423001]As I said before, I think it brought up a lot of valid points. It did a decent job of making you believe what the author WANTED you to believe. But, factual information inside of the movie was few and far between. Now, personally, movie or not, I think 9-11 WAS a tragedy that was known of before it happened and was handled poorly by our country. It bugs me that a lot of things they say are so dumb and they expect us to believe them. Like the whole passport thing, you mean to tell me that a plane crashed into a building and I'm supposed to believe you found a passport of one of the terrorists in the streets of Manhattan AFTERWARDS?!? Thats a little far fetched but then again, this entire story is on BOTH sides. It's bad when you cant trust your GOV. enough to tell you the truth. It's worse when that trust is so bad that you believe 90% of what is thrown at you that says the Gov is lying to you.

Again, it was an interesting video with a few far-and-between facts, but I was not aware of the actual premise of the movie before I posted. If I had known it was meant to be a work of fiction presented as a documentary, I dont think this discussion would even be taking place.[/QUOTE]

Now that wasn't so hard was it?

Well, anyhow I think often for our own good the government doesn't tell us everything. And I agree that certain policies and actions (plus lack of action) over the years played a factor in the tragedy. But such is the case for almost all major events in history. Nothing "just happens"

I don't believe, and yes I find it insulting that those kids would imply such a thing, that there was a conspiracy to kill hundreds of thousands of people primarily for political gain.

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=SmootSmack;423004]Now that wasn't so hard was it?

Well, anyhow I think often for our own good the government doesn't tell us everything. And I agree that certain policies and actions (plus lack of action) over the years played a factor in the tragedy. But such is the case for almost all major events in history. Nothing "just happens"

[B] I don't believe, and yes I find it insulting that those kids would imply such a thing, that there was a conspiracy to kill hundreds of thousands of people primarily for political gain.[/B][/quote]

I have no problem with that, I just give the kids a little credit because:

A. They took the time to AT LEAST ask questions, something a lot of people refused to do after 9/11.

B. After forming their opinions on what really happened, they expressed how they felt. Now, granted, I think that movie should start with a warning that says WHAT the movie actually is; and that is a work of fiction, mixed with sparse facts, that has been made to look like a documentary. That might've saved me a little brain melt-age.

I agree about the Gov not telling us as a people everything.

The average person is smart, witty, intelligent and capable of understanding things but PEOPLE as a GROUP cannot handle stuff like that. People as a group are instinctive, dumb animals that let their brains take a rest.....

Re: Loose Change
 

Fair enough. Sorry, however, I still disagree both with the premise of the film and the extent to which it was carried. I am a firm beliewver in questioning governement. I am will also ridicule as foolish and arrogant those who refuse to use logic or reason in their presentation of ideas.

You object to the terms "moron", "spitting in the face", and others of that ilk. As I said, although not your original intention - the original post your initial response invited in light of the baselessness of the original video. As I said before, idiotic and/or baseless statements deserve to be ridiculed. Otherwise, to treat them with respect is to grant them something they not don't deserve but is harmful b/c to give them respect is undercut their idiocy. Foolish people debate foolish statements.

Did something, perhaps, slip by that should've been found out? Yup. But guess what, that happens everyday in government. As someone said, on one hand there is this desire to imply the govt. is carefully scheming away while at the same time assert that their is some brilliant plot at work. It the same argument that has been made for thousands of years - dark mysterious forces are manipulating our government and our perceptions.

There is undoubtedly some attempt by some individuals to manipulate feelings - that too is as old as government itself (and religion for that matter). But, and this is a big but, such conspiracies rarely run as deep or are as organized as those who wish to oppose them assert. It's foolish game of manipulation by both sides and one that requires a careful balancing of skepticism and trust.

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote]As I said before, idiotic and/or baseless statements deserve to be ridiculed.[/quote]it wasn't the posts that were being ridiculed... it was the poster. Everyone is guilty of getting offended and spouting off, but that doesn't make it right. Calling someone you disagree with a moron is wrong, even if he's wrong... Hell even if he's a complete moron (at least within the bounds of the warpath, so sayeth canthetuna).

the difference is probably one of the points on that poster titled "All I ever really needed to know I learned in kindergarten"

Re: Loose Change
 

Again, fair enough. Though his initial responses did seem to invite a certain level of abuse. Clearly, their was plenty of room for misunderstanding on both sides.

And, BTW - scientifical is officially in my lexicon. JGLR, please know that I do not use it to ridicule you but b/c it so accurately catches the tenor of so much of what is proposed as true scientific doctrine. (It's like science, but it's not! - it's scientifical).

Re: Loose Change
 

JGLOTR, I point this out as something that's hopefully helpful and not seen as an attack, but you kind of shot yourself in the foot in the very first post of this thread.

Saying that you watched a one hour video by a couple of college kids and you now feel "duped and violated" doesn't say much for your reasoning ability. To be quite honest I think you're a perfectly reasonable individual and have had many worthwhile posts on this thread, but this one didn't start out too well.

It's along the lines of me coming on here and saying "Hey guys, I just read Humpty Dumpty and I am OUTRAGED at how all the King's men couldn't put him back together! I feel totally misled and lied to about their egg-fixing ability!"

I guess the point is, don't have your world view and opinion on the government and country shaped by a one hour video by some college kids which has been decried and debunked around the internet almost nonstop.

Personally I think there are some major holes in the official story and you're right to be skeptical and ask questions, but give it some due diligence and make an informed decision from the facts available to you. And find a better source than some pretentious college kids who lack basic PR and debate skills.

Again, this is no indictment of you - I think you just got off on the wrong foot, people made some immature and inflammatory comments toward you, and the whole thing got out of hand. No reason to waste 1,000+ posts and the relationships with people on the site over this.

Re: Loose Change
 

Well said Mheisig.

Re: Loose Change
 

gg withdrawnzors

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=Redskin;423063]I mean its just that your ignorance is astounding. Take a hint and shut the **** up. Smoot is a bigger man then you will ever be, hes not the one blowing up about being wrong. I have watch loose change and I guess im a sheep as you put it becuase form the moment I watched it I called total BS. 2/2 eh I guess you are a dumb bitch after all. Sorry after reading all the scientifical stuff JGILOTR was attacking reason with i couldnt holf back anymore.[/QUOTE]

We don't need to incite the sitaution anymore. Hopefully by now JGLOTR has realized that the huge flaws in that movie. I think he has

Re: Loose Change
 

I think it's nice that you guys were able to come to a rational discussion after all that. But this was a case where you were better off not starting this thread.

Even though people have managed to be civil and rational to you doesn't mean they've come away with a very high opinion of you. You've done that to yourself. It's going to be tough for me to take just about anything you say seriously from now on, because I'm always going to think back and say this was the same guy who bought into Loose Change, so why should I care what he thinks about a free agency acquisition?

Reputation matters. Think before you post.

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;423033]Again, fair enough. Though his initial responses did seem to invite a certain level of abuse. Clearly, their was plenty of room for misunderstanding on both sides.

[B] And, BTW - scientifical is officially in my lexicon. JGLR, please know that I do not use it to ridicule you but b/c it so accurately catches the tenor of so much of what is proposed as true scientific doctrine. (It's like science, but it's not! - it's scientifical)[/B].[/quote]

Ok, that makes sense then.

hehe...Scientifical

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=Schneed10;423077]I think it's nice that you guys were able to come to a rational discussion after all that. But this was a case where you were better off not starting this thread.

Even though people have managed to be civil and rational to you doesn't mean they've come away with a very high opinion of you. You've done that to yourself. It's going to be tough for me to take just about anything you say seriously from now on, because I'm always going to think back and say this was the same guy who bought into Loose Change, so why should I care what he thinks about a free agency acquisition?

Reputation matters. Think before you post.[/quote]

I agree with a lot of what you said. By posting my second post, I open myself up to abuse because I didn't take the time to research what I had just watched. That's understood.

Like I said before, I've been here for a while and really like it here, I just felt that making of the poster and mot the post in this instance may have been a little overboard. The fact that you, as a Moderator, called me a moron just kinda irked me. Like I said to SS, I agree that Mods DEF have the right to speak their minds, but they should also be aware that A LOT of people that visit this site look up to the mods as the standard. I just think that coming out and flat-out calling me a moron was a little much to lay on a guy who simply bought into something he saw for 30 minutes before he actually took the time to research it.

Again, there's no hard feelings towards anyone and I apologize for the crude statements I made.

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=canthetuna;423020][B]it wasn't the posts that were being ridiculed... it was the poster. Everyone is guilty of getting offended and spouting off, but that doesn't make it right. Calling someone you disagree with a moron is wrong, even if he's wrong... Hell even if he's a complete moron (at least within the bounds of the warpath, so sayeth canthetuna).
[/B]
the difference is probably one of the points on that poster titled "All I ever really needed to know I learned in kindergarten"[/quote]

That's all I had a problem with. If everyone came out and said well, "This post is retarded and you need to do your homework because this movie is trash", then it would have been easier to accept my wrongs and correct them.

But, what I got was, "You're a moron" etc etc.....everyone is entitled to their opinion and thats the beauty of this country that has duped me so well; we can speak our minds freely. Lol....and before I get assualted with moron tags, I'm joking about the whole being duped thing. lol

Re: Loose Change
 

shneed's not a moderator.

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=canthetuna;423114]shneed's not a moderator.[/quote]


Wow. He's not! Well, fk me then. Many apologies sir.

Re: Loose Change
 

But lets face facts, he might as well be. LoL I think it was the VIP thing I saw. Again, that destroys my entire argument and I apologize. I just can't get shit right this week.

Re: Loose Change
 

If Schneed were a moderator, there would only be 10 people on this site. ;)

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;423077]I think it's nice that you guys were able to come to a rational discussion after all that. But this was a case where you were better off not starting this thread.

Even though people have managed to be civil and rational to you doesn't mean they've come away with a very high opinion of you. You've done that to yourself. It's going to be tough for me to take just about anything you say seriously from now on, because I'm always going to think back and say this was the same guy who bought into Loose Change, so why should I care what he thinks about a free agency acquisition?

Reputation matters. Think before you post.[/QUOTE]

And the point of your post is?????? To try to get one last jab in maybe?
Everyone makes mistakes Schneed, everyone at one point or another has been duped. It's human nature.
To not take him seriously in future threads because of this thread shows more about the person you are than the person he is.
"Everyone makes mistakes, the bigger man let's those mistakes go."

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=Lady Brave;423120]If Schneed were a moderator, there would only be 10 people on this site. ;)[/quote]


Haha....now THAT I can believe. lol

Scheeds alright and so is everyone else that stated their opinion. Like I said, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

But no matter what your opinion is, I'm still a moron. :rofl:

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=jsarno;423122]And the point of your post is?????? To try to get one last jab in maybe?
Everyone makes mistakes Schneed, everyone at one point or another has been duped. It's human nature.
To not take him seriously in future threads because of this thread shows more about the person you are than the person he is.
"Everyone makes mistakes, the bigger man let's those mistakes go."[/quote]

Wow. I am actually being [I]defended [/I]here? Holy smokes Batman! Lol....Schneed's alright. If he was to take this moment of retardation on my part and generalize my entire life over one event, thats fine. If that's case then his opinion doesn't really matter to me anyway.

It's just bad to mix politics and/or religion with sports. Never turns out good.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=JGisLordOfTheRings;423124]Wow. I am actually being [I]defended [/I]here? Holy smokes Batman! Lol....Schneed's alright. If he was to take this moment of retardation on my part and generalize my entire life over one event, thats fine. If that's case then his opinion doesn't really matter to me anyway.

It's just bad to mix politics and/or religion with sports. Never turns out good.[/QUOTE]

Not really defending your stance, but I firmly beleive that you don't kick someone when he's down, and you certainly don't kick someone when they are trying to dust themselves off either.
Everything that needed to be said was, we needed and need to move forward. The conversation took a great swing forward thanks to SS, just want to see it continue in that path, and hope that spills over to all threads.

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=JGisLordOfTheRings;423124]Wow. I am actually being [I]defended [/I]here? Holy smokes Batman! Lol....Schneed's alright. If he was to take this moment of retardation on my part and generalize my entire life over one event, thats fine. If that's case then his opinion doesn't really matter to me anyway.

[B] It's just bad to mix politics and/or religion with sports. Never turns out good.[/B][/quote]

Tell me about it, I figured that out the hard way. I'm pretty much terrified to post anywhere in the locker room about politics or religion now because it seems that some people take what I say the wrong way, after the Romney thread. After being here for what I felt was a long time and people know me pretty well and I've made some pretty decent contributions (I'd like to think), to be attacked like I was hurt pretty bad. I guess being that I'm a chick, I tend to take things to heart even though I don't want to. But I feel like because of all of that drama, people are going to think I'm some brainless idiot. :(

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;423131]Tell me about it, I figured that out the hard way. I'm pretty much terrified to post anywhere in the locker room about politics or religion now because it seems that some people take what I say the wrong way, after the Romney thread. After being here for what I felt was a long time and people know me pretty well and I've made some pretty decent contributions (I'd like to think), to be attacked like I was hurt pretty bad. I guess being that I'm a chick, I tend to take things to heart even though I don't want to. But I feel like because of all of that drama, people are going to think I'm some brainless idiot. :([/QUOTE]

You're not brainless DRave. :D

nottin but love!

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=jsarno;423129]Not really defending your stance, but I firmly beleive that you don't kick someone when he's down, and you certainly don't kick someone when they are trying to dust themselves off either.
Everything that needed to be said was, we needed and need to move forward. The conversation took a great swing forward thanks to SS, just want to see it continue in that path, and hope that spills over to all threads.[/quote]

Agreed. I also agree that SS did a great job of grabbing my attention and giving me a chance to redeem myself, instead of just banning me like I ASKED him too! LOL.

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=jsarno;423135]You're not brainless DRave. :D

nottin but love![/quote]

Yay! :D I know I can I count on JS!

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;423138]Yay! :D I know I can I count on JS![/quote]

If there's one thing to be said about jsarno, it's that he's reliable and level headed.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;423138]Yay! :D I know I can I count on JS![/QUOTE]

LOL...thanks! :D
It's always fun reading your posts drave.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=JGisLordOfTheRings;423141]If there's one thing to be said about jsarno, it's that he's reliable and level headed.[/QUOTE]

Thank you sir, I appreciate those comments.
I try to be, I am not always successful, but I would hope the good outweighs the bad.

ps- I won't hold this thread against you. If I held what people beleive against them, I would never talk to democrats, yankees fans, cowboys fans, or anyone against Hendricks Motorsports (right SS...LOL). You provide good posts elsewhere, and I look forward to future constructive conversations with you.

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=Lady Brave;423120]If Schneed were a moderator, there would only be 10 people on this site. ;)[/QUOTE]

ahahahahaahahahahah!

Can we start discussing who we think those 10 would be?

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=jsarno;423147]Thank you sir, I appreciate those comments.
I try to be, I am not always successful, but I would hope the good outweighs the bad.

ps- I won't hold this thread against you. If I held what people beleive against them, I would never talk to democrats, yankees fans, cowboys fans, or anyone against Hendricks Motorsports (right SS...LOL). You provide good posts elsewhere, and I look forward to future constructive conversations with you.[/quote]

It's hard to talk to Yankees fans. lol I'm a Red Sox fan myself.

Re: Loose Change
 

[quote=jsarno;423147]Thank you sir, I appreciate those comments.
I try to be, I am not always successful, but I would hope the good outweighs the bad.

ps- I won't hold this thread against you. If I held what people beleive against them, I would never talk to democrats, yankees fans, cowboys fans, or anyone against Hendricks Motorsports (right SS...LOL). You provide good posts elsewhere, and I look forward to future constructive conversations with you.[/quote]

Excellent. I too look forward to constructive conversations with not just you, but everyone here.

Besides, there IS [B]scientifical [/B]proof that holding grudges shortens your life span!

Re: Loose Change
 

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;423149]It's hard to talk to Yankees fans. lol I'm a Red Sox fan myself.[/QUOTE]

I don't know why I don't remember that.
I miss my Sox. I used to have season tickets before I moved out here. My brother has them now. There has never been a better time to be a Sox fan. Good to have you on board DRave. LOL. ;)