Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[QUOTE=Longtimefan;429542]Not sure where Favre officially ranks all-time, but these are some things we do know.

Brett Favre: Where he stands in the history.

Passing Attempts: 8,757 (#1 all-time)

Passing Completions: 5,377 (#1 all-time)

Touchdown Passes: 442 (#1 all-time)

Interceptions: 288

Passing Yards: 61,655 (#1 all-time)

Incredible:[/QUOTE]

I believe the Packers also had more wins than any other team since Favre started his streak. Not bad, especially considering how mediocre the Packers were back in the 1980s

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;429532]But I am not comparing someone from yesteryear to someone of today. That leaves too much to interpretation. So in that respect, you are right, and I agree. However, I am comparing 2 guys that played in the same era and played the EXACT same amount of years with the EXACT same teams for their careers. You can't ignore the stats I provided in comparison of the two. I know 1 person PMed me and said they had no idea that Favre did that much better than Elway...for some reason Elway is held in high regard while Favre is thought of as wreckless. Some perceptions are hard to break. No matter what, people will believe what they want to believe, and that's thier choice...more power to you. SOmetimes you can provide concrete proof in black and white and people won't see it...oh well. It's not like this discussion is life or death. LOL.[/QUOTE]

I think it's funny how people secretly PM you to commend you. I think you said the same thing happened with your roulette strategy and your opinion of Vince Young.

I wish I had secret admirers

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;429545]I believe the Packers also had more wins than any other team since Favre started his streak. Not bad, especially considering how mediocre the Packers were back in the 1980s[/QUOTE]

Mediocre is being nice...before Favre the Packers won only .406% of the games.

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;429548]I think it's funny how people secretly PM you to commend you. I think you said the same thing happened with your roulette strategy and your opinion of Vince Young.

I wish I had secret admirers[/QUOTE]

Who says they are secret? I got positive rankings from the Vince Young thread. Only the blind lovers of the inadaquate tend to say anything negative on here. Some are afraid to say anything in fear they will be blasted by some...I am speaking of the Vince Young thread in particular.

Nice way to make a thread more of a personal issue...what exactly does this have to do with this thread? Maybe you should take your advice and follow your own rules???

Maybe I shoud throw in this :D so I don't get another unwarranted negative rep points from you.

Are you ready to get back to the subject now?

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;429545]I believe the Packers also had more wins than any other team since Favre started his streak. Not bad, especially considering how mediocre the Packers were back in the 1980s[/QUOTE]


Favre has been the heartbeat of the Packers since taking over there. I forgot to mention his consecutive game streak which is unlikely to be matched.

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;429552]Who says they are secret? I got positive rankings from the Vince Young thread. Only the blind lovers of the inadaquate tend to say anything negative on here. Some are afraid to say anything in fear they will be blasted by some...I am speaking of the Vince Young thread in particular.

Nice way to make a thread more of a personal issue...what exactly does this have to do with this thread? Maybe you should take your advice and follow your own rules???

Maybe I shoud throw in this :D so I don't get another unwarranted negative rep points from you.

Are you ready to get back to the subject now?[/QUOTE]

Good God man, chill out. You said one person PMed you about what you said here (and I know you've said it before). And all I was saying is that it's kind of unique/cool/different/interesting/curious/pick your own adjective that you'd be PMed that instead of (in addition) to someone just stating it publicly on the thread.

And of course it's secret. I have no idea who PMs you or sends you rep points.

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;429556]Good God man, chill out. You said one person PMed you about what you said here (and I know you've said it before). And all I was saying is that it's kind of unique/cool/different/interesting/curious/pick your own adjective that you'd be PMed that instead of (in addition) to someone just stating it publicly on the thread.

And of course it's secret. [B]I have no idea who PMs you or sends you rep points[/B].[/quote]

I do though!

Because of course I am the evil dictator! I know all and see all!

(Actually I can't check PM's. But I can see all rep points and comments.)

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

I would say top 5 of all time

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

My Top QB list comes from my era of watching football up to this point:

Elite QBs of the 80's/90's:

1. Joe Montana
2. Dan Marino
3. Steve Young
4. Bret Favre
5. John Elway
6. Troy Akiman
7. Jim Kelly
8. Phil Simms

Very Good QBs of the 80's that are probably a class just below great:

1. Bernie Kosar
2. Warren Moon
3. Randall Cunningham
4. Joe Theismann
5. Dave Krieg

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

I'm surprised to see Steve Young so high on the rankings.

I liked watching him play and he was a great QB but I don't think he ranks with the greatest of all time. If he would've stayed in Tampa, He would've been the next JIM ZORN!!! ;)

Some guys that should be mentioned with the greats that I haven't seen mentioned:
Fran Tarkenten
YA Tittle
Dan Fouts

Favre is TOP 5 all time in my book, Probably TOP 2 only behind Montana.

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

in the modern era-aka the last 25 years,i'd take FAVRE over montanna,young,or aikman.i put elway 2nd.best qb to me that i have ever seen?roger staubach.
i saw the redskins hit,beat,and smack him around,but 9 out of 10 times,he got up and found a way to win.i hate the dallas cowboys with a passion,but i respect the hell out of stauchbach and how tough he was!i'd put bart starr and johnny unitas up there as well!

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[quote=coggs;429385]I was at football camp in the summer of 91 and 92. A bunch of NFL'ers there such as Lott, Cornelius Bennet, Bruce Smith, LT (real LT), Leonard Marshall, Jim Lachey. In the evenings they gave speeches and did Q & A's. They all said Elway was the best QB in the NFL. I will qualify that by saying that Lott was asked, "If you can't choose Montana, who would say is the best QB in the league?"[/quote] I would trust the men who played against them than as opposed to stats . Some of my friends asked Richie Petibon that question as well < he owned a resteraunt in FC , Va.> .... he answered ,Staubach, Montana , Elway , Marino and Joe Theismann . Had Gibbs been hired after Allen left ,, # 7 might be in this thread .

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[quote=budw38;429651]I would trust the men who played against them than as opposed to stats . Some of my friends asked Richie Petibon that question as well < he owned a resteraunt in FC , Va.> .... he answered ,Staubach, Montana , Elway , Marino and Joe Theismann . Had Gibbs been hired after Allen left ,, # 7 might be in this thread .[/quote]I'll trust what actually happened--in the case of a inconsistency (which I should mention there usually isn't)--but to each their own.

Elway's body of work suggests that he wasn't a top ten passer of all time. Players who played against him are totally entited to form opinions based on their experiences, but it's still a limited viewpoint.

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[quote=Defensewins;429526]It is easy to compare, but the judgments are just that..judgments; and the judgments may not always be that sound. It is still a team sport and they ran diffrent play books.
I am not sure who was better. It is not so clear cut.
Stats are not the tell all/end all of who was better.
[B]There were guys like Gayle Sayers and Jim Brown who had relatively short careers but they were incredible. Their stats are not going to be the best because they did not play 12-18 years. Stats do not tell the whole story.[/B][/quote]Both your posts in this thread have brought out a plethora of good points, but your conclusion of "[I]x is a problem so we shouldn't even try to form a list[/I]" is ignorant at best. It's not a worthy conclusion of good points such as era adjustments matter, the rules have changed, and it's a team sport. All very good points...so how exactly are you going from making good points to sticking your head in the sand and ignoring all arugments?

Jim Brown ranks 2nd in YPC (all-time) behind Bo Jackson, and Gale Sayers ranks fifth, so thier stats DO look very good. This is because they were two of the five best RBs of all time (and both played longer than Bo Jackson). I have no idea why you are saying "Their stats are not going to be the best because they did not play 12-18 years." That makes no sense, and shows a very shallow understanding of statistical analysis.

Since stats are reliant on human interpretation to have any value, at least you are consistent in your belief that we should do no interpreting, because we should not use statistics. I guess we just don't know anything about the game of football then, other than what people we meet can tell us.

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;429685]I'll trust what actually happened--in the case of a inconsistency (which I should mention there usually isn't)--but to each their own.

Elway's body of work suggests that he wasn't a top ten passer of all time. Players who played against him are totally entited to form opinions based on their experiences, but it's still a limited viewpoint.[/quote]
That might be true . Elway was also # 1 in a stat left out , sacked most times in a career < 516 > . Most of the qb's on this list had very solid teams , Elway went to a poor team . Elways td/int ratio improved as did his comp % his last 7 years ,,, maybe coaching < Shannahan> and a RB < Davis >. If you think stats are what make a player , Krieg , Testaverde would be top 10 . Kelly and Moon would be top 10 on td/ int ratio's and Comp % . The difference between Kelly / Moon as opposed to Montana and Elway , Montana and Elway played there best in the playoffs , Kelly and Moon played tight and threw picks . Favre threw 3 int's or more 5 times in the playoffs , lost playoff games at home to Seattle / Atlanta and NY . Can anyone in here name one playoff/Superbowl game were Montana , Marino or Elway blew a 14 pt lead , or threw 4-6 int's vs teams they should have beat ? I just go by what I witnessed over many years . Earl Campbell was the most dominant runner I have ever seen , 5 years from now he wont be 20th in yds/ career ,,, no way 20 rd's are better . B. Smith all time sack leader ,,,, LT was 10 times better pass rusher . One little trivia , what do Landry , Shula , Elway and P Manning have in common ? All of them were labled " Can't win the big one " ,,,, all will have a bust in Canton .

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[quote=budw38;429698]That might be true . Elway was also # 1 in a stat left out , sacked most times in a career < 516 > . Most of the qb's on this list had very solid teams , Elway went to a poor team . Elways td/int ratio improved as did his comp % his last 7 years ,,, maybe coaching < Shannahan> and a RB < Davis >. If you think stats are what make a player , Krieg , Testaverde would be top 10 . Kelly and Moon would be top 10 on td/ int ratio's and Comp % . The difference between Kelly / Moon as opposed to Montana and Elway , Montana and Elway played there best in the playoffs , Kelly and Moon played tight and threw picks . Favre threw 3 int's or more 5 times in the playoffs , lost playoff games at home to Seattle / Atlanta and NY . Can anyone in here name one playoff/Superbowl game were Montana , Marino or Elway blew a 14 pt lead , or threw 4-6 int's vs teams they should have beat ? I just go by what I witnessed over many years . Earl Campbell was the most dominant runner I have ever seen , 5 years from now he wont be 20th in yds/ career ,,, no way 20 rd's are better . B. Smith all time sack leader ,,,, LT was 10 times better pass rusher . One little trivia , what do Landry , Shula , Elway and P Manning have in common ? All of them were labled " Can't win the big one " ,,,, all will have a bust in Canton .[/quote]Yeah, well, "can't win the big one" is and has always been a misconception on the part of the guy making the assertion. There are a few buzz words in sports that when you hear them, an association is instantly made that the speaker is probably unknoledgable. "Choker" is probably the first and most telling one, but there are others.

I think it's great that pretty much all athletes that have donned the "choker" label have won a championship in their respective sports, and that people still value the concept.

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

I have the solution to this debate ,,, we get the top 5 on this list , have them play for " the ol' ball coach " @ S. Carolina < he likes to shuffle his qb's by series > , and we will see who is # 1 LOL !!!!!

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[quote=SKINSnCANES;429048]yea, and plenty of them were dumb, but its not like hes rex grossman and throws 6 a game everyweek, he played for what, like 482 years? The pics will add up. Granted Marino didnt have near that many, and its a notch.

Are there any QBs with two super bowls that arent in the hall of fame (Brady will be)[/quote]
Jim Plunkett .

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;429024]Top 10 probably.

For me, just going by the QBs I've personally seen in my lifetime... top 5.[/quote]

With all due respect, right off the top of my head, I'd take Marino, Elway, Aikmen, Montana, Brady and P. Manning before Favre and that is five right there. There are many, many more quarterbacks that I'd take before Favre, but those are five that have played over the last 15 to 20 years.

I don't think Favre is in the top 10 all time. He may have had a lot of touchdown passes and yards, but look at the amount of interceptions he had. He was an undisciplined quarterback that broker records due to his health and longevity. He also was aided by playing in the same system for almost his entire career.

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[quote=jsarno;429082]I'm sorry, but no way Elway ranks over Favre. There's just no way. I can see others (too early on Brady though), but not Elway.[/quote]

Elway played in five super bowls and won two of them. The three super bowls they lost the only reason they got there was because of Elway, because they really weren't that good of a team.

Look at Elway in his prime while he was winning super bowls, vs. Favre during the same time in his prime. Elway won two MVPs.

Favre is not in the top 10 in my book.

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[quote=Hijinx;429350]I have to go Favre over Elway, the teams Elway was on were much better than Favre's. I can name a heck of a lot of really good RBs and WRs on those Broncos teams but I can't name hardy anyone really good like that for Green Bay. Quick name a pro bowl Packers RB in the last 15 years.

I also think when you talk about Favre it isn't just about the performance on the field. The guy is well loved by millions of fans who aren't Packer fans. The fact that he plays for a scrappy small market team, with history like none other only adds to the reverence fans have for him. The fact he came from a college no one ever heard of and he was nearly doomed to be a career backup. I loved the boyish way he had [B]FUN playing the game [/B], the gunslinger way he played it, and the fact he started over 250 straight games in some of the hardest playing conditions in the NFL. The guys has a "Joe Everyman" quality like no other sports star I can think of.

Statistically speaking or in terms of SB wins Favre may not be in the top ten but he'll always my favorite QB. (well non Redskin QB at least).[/quote]
You don't think S. Sharpe was any good ? Freeman / Brooks / Churma and Levens ?

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy;429587]My Top QB list comes from my era of watching football up to this point:

Elite QBs of the 80's/90's:

1. Joe Montana
2. Dan Marino
3. Steve Young
4. Bret Favre
5. John Elway
6. Troy Akiman
7. Jim Kelly
8. Phil Simms

Very Good QBs of the 80's that are probably a class just below great:

1. Bernie Kosar
2. Warren Moon
3. Randall Cunningham
4. Joe Theismann
5. Dave Krieg[/QUOTE]

i hate when they rate Montana as number one all time. He played in the best system and had the best cast around him. Same as Steve Young..Hall of Famer?Yes...Great player?Yes but not number 1

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;429700]Yeah, well, "can't win the big one" is and has always been a misconception on the part of the guy making the assertion. There are a few buzz words in sports that when you hear them, an association is instantly made that the speaker is probably unknoledgable. "Choker" is probably the first and most telling one, but there are others.

I think it's great that pretty much all athletes that have donned the "choker" label have won a championship in their respective sports, and that people still value the concept.[/quote] I think you missed my point . To much emphasis on stats or winning alone . In order to have great stats as a qb , you need coaching , OL , RD's , OL and a stout defence helps . Teams win championships , not the QB . The game is played to win , not who throws the prettiest pass or has the highest comp. % . Grossman hit close to 70% of his passes , Pennigton , Culpepper has put up some very impressive #'s . I know I watched Montana , Elway and Marino pull out near impossible wins more than the others , I do not remember seeing either of them lose a big game , that is what I see as the most important stat .

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[QUOTE=Skinsfanmania;429721]Elway played in five super bowls and won two of them. The three super bowls they lost the only reason they got there was because of Elway, because they really weren't that good of a team.

Look at Elway in his prime while he was winning super bowls, vs. Favre during the same time in his prime. Elway won two MVPs.

Favre is not in the top 10 in my book.[/QUOTE]

Please see my other posts sir.
1- Elway has 1 MVP (not two), Favre has 3.
2- Other than the super bowls (which is an indicator of a good team, and I already pointed out that Elway had very good defenses during his tenure) Favre beats him in every thing, including all pro's.

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[quote=prinzeofmoval;429724]i hate when they rate Montana as number one all time. He played in the best system and had the best cast around him. Same as Steve Young..Hall of Famer?Yes...Great player?Yes but not number 1[/quote] I can't stand the 9ers either , but Montana was not a system qb , That man took a beating many times and hit guys dead on the money < see comeback vs Philly '88 or 89 > ? He was as good as it gets with the game on the line . 49ers still suck of course

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[quote=jsarno;429728]Please see my other posts sir.
1- Elway has 1 MVP (not two), Favre has 3.
2- Other than the super bowls (which is an indicator of a good team, and I already pointed out that Elway had very good defenses during his tenure) Favre beats him in every thing, including all pro's.[/quote]
A defence that gives up 39 , 42 and 55 points in the Super Bowl is " very good " ? What would you consider bad , 72 pts per game ? Favre didn't have a defence , R. White , Jones , Joyner Koonce , ,newsome , Anderson . What about the OL that Elway played behind his first 6/7 years , he ran for his life ,,, like our qb's did under Spurrier . As great as they both were , Elway did not blow big games , Favre did a couple of times . Elway got to 5 SB's Favre 2 . Favre had a chance to win the game against Denver and threw a low pass behind his TE.GB was a 13 pt favorite going into that game , GB had more talent than Denver .I would bet most CB's hated to face either one . If you go by stats / passer ratings Bulger,Culpepper and Pennington are 5 - 7 all time . Stats only tell a little bit of the story . I know you put up some nice stats , take a minute to look at the # Elway put up Under Shannahan compared to his early years . Favre's # are not as impressive after Holmgren left . MVP/Pro Bowls are votes , football is not skating , winning is what counts , no points for looking pretty .

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[QUOTE=budw38;429732]A defence that gives up 39 , 42 and 55 points in the Super Bowl is " very good " ? What would you consider bad , 72 pts per game ? Favre didn't have a defence , R. White , Jones , Joyner Koonce , ,newsome , Anderson . What about the OL that Elway played behind his first 6/7 years , he ran for his life ,,, life our qb's did under Spurrier . As great as they both were , Elway did not blow big games , Favre did a couple of times . Elway got to 5 SB's Favre 2 . Favre had a chance to win the game against Denver and threw a low pass behind his TE.GB was a 13 pt favorite going into that game , GB had more talent than Denver .I would bet most CB's hated to face either one . If you go by stats / passer ratings Bulger,Culpepper and Pennington are 5 - 7 all time . Stats only tell a little bit of the story . I know you put up some nice stats , take a minute to look at the # Elway put up Under Shannahan compared to his early years . Favre's # are not as impressive after Holmgren left . MVP/Pro Bowls are votes , football is not skating , winning is what counts , no points for looking pretty .[/QUOTE]

You can tell you don't pay attention to the posts, because you would realize that you have spelt [b]defense[/b] wrong several times.

So I guess the Skins defense sucked this past year cause we let up 50 some odd points to the Pats right? I guess we should strip the Giants of their SB win cause they let up 45 to the Cowboys, 41 to the Vikings, and 38 to the patriots?
I guess the previous 17 or 18 games for the Broncos mean nothing, but the one game vs the best team they had to face means everything to you. Didn't realize you'd be judged SOLELY on 1 game and not the 18 or so that lead up to it.
That is a crazy statement to say that Elway didn't blow games. Until you prove that statement, I will consider it blind love for Elway. EVERY QB has lost games, and Elway did too.
I already pointed out that Favre threw 145 go ahead tds to Elway's only 103. AND I pointed out that Favre played better in the playoffs. What more do you need? You don't get 42 more go ahead TDs by choking buddy.
You can't ignore EVERYTHING and just point out super bowls (something that is a TEAM issue, not individual). That's the ONLY thing Elway has him in. You can ignore all the stats, MVPs, all pros all you want, but it doesn't make Elway better.
By your logic, Trent Dilfer was better than Dan Marino since Dilfer has a championship, and Marino does not. You seem like a logical poster, so I emplore you to open your mind and see this objectively.

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

Favre had no one around him hardly ever, and was one of the most fun QB's to watch regardless of if he was winning. As far as talent goes, I have never seen the tenacity, toughness, and raw talent in any other QB. I say #1 has to go to Montana, #2 Unitas, and #3 Favre, with Marino coming in at a very very very close 4. Elway is somewhere in the top 10, but IMO is overrated to certain degree. I hope Favre does not really retire. I know its "official" and all but I have a feeling he may be back before September...

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[QUOTE=Stuck in TX;429738]Favre had no one around him hardly ever, and was one of the most fun QB's to watch regardless of if he was winning. As far as talen goes, I have never seen the tenacity, toughness, and raw talent in any other QB. I say #1 has to go to Montana, #2 Unitas, and #3 Favre, with Marino coming in at a very very very close 4. Elway is somewhere in the top 10, but IMO is overrated to certain degree. I hope Favre does not really retire. I know its "official" and all but I have a feeling he may be back before September...[/QUOTE]

I am hoping that too...right now he's spent, but when he sees the team he played with for 16 years taking the field without him, and knowing he can still play, it's going to hurt.
I agree with you, and while that is not my exact top 4, I can understand it completely.
I think Otto Graham needs to be mentioned more in this thread...I think only myself and angry pointed him out. He was by far the best QB of his era and went to the championship game 10 out of 10 seasons and he won 7 of them. He lead the league in passing 5 out of 10 years too. He must have been fun to watch.

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[quote=budw38;429722]You don't think S. Sharpe was any good ? Freeman / Brooks / Churma and Levens ?[/quote]

Sharpe was very good however he only played 6 or 7 years and only 1 full season(1993) with Favre. Freeman played 10 seasons(7 with Green Bay) for a grand total of 477 rec and 7251 yards. He went to 1 pro bowl. Those aren't great numbers. Brooks played 6 and half (injury) seasons for about 300 rec and 4300 yards. No pro bowls, again not great numbers.

Churma was only a starter for 4 years and was good. Three pro bowls and an average of 40 rec over those years. However I will always remember that jerk for having the stones not show up at a white house visit by saying he wouldn't go because Clinton had no morals, then he got arrested for raping a 17 year old girl. Stay classy Green Bay.

Levens only had 1 good year(1997) before that he was a back up and in 1998 he had that knee injury and was never the same after.

Now compare that to Shannon who might be a first year selection into the hall of fame in 2009. Terrell Davis who might have been in the hall if he just had 1 or 2 more seasons. Rod Smith who was the best undrafted WR in NFL history. Plus the Broncos had a pretty good OL with at least 1 hall of famer.

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[quote=jsarno;429737]You can tell you don't pay attention to the posts, because you would realize that you have spelt [B]defense[/B] wrong several times.

So I guess the Skins defense sucked this past year cause we let up 50 some odd points to the Pats right? I guess we should strip the Giants of their SB win cause they let up 45 to the Cowboys, 41 to the Vikings, and 38 to the patriots?
I guess the previous 17 or 18 games for the Broncos mean nothing, but the one game vs the best team they had to face means everything to you. Didn't realize you'd be judged SOLELY on 1 game and not the 18 or so that lead up to it.
That is a crazy statement to say that Elway didn't blow games. Until you prove that statement, I will consider it blind love for Elway. EVERY QB has lost games, and Elway did too.
I already pointed out that Favre threw 145 go ahead tds to Elway's only 103. AND I pointed out that Favre played better in the playoffs. What more do you need? You don't get 42 more go ahead TDs by choking buddy.
You can't ignore EVERYTHING and just point out super bowls (something that is a TEAM issue, not individual). That's the ONLY thing Elway has him in. You can ignore all the stats, MVPs, all pros all you want, but it doesn't make Elway better.
By your logic, Trent Dilfer was better than Dan Marino since Dilfer has a championship, and Marino does not. You seem like a logical poster, so I emplore you to open your mind and see this objectively.[/quote] I'am not judging either qb based on one game or season . You made the point about Denver having better talent and defense than Green Bay .It is up to you to prove Elway blew big games ? What game did he throw away? Denver always struggled to stop better teams from scoring during the 80's , Cleveland scored 31 in one championship game < would have been 38 without the fumble > . Name one playoff game where Elway threw an Int that cost his team ? Favre , Rams 6 int's , Falcons 3 , Philly the " Punt " and his missing a chance to win the SB vs Denver. The fact that Favre threw for more yards and TD's does not itself make him better than Elway or Manning , Montana ,ect . I agree with you Favre is an awesome , top 5 all time , top ten , HOF Qb. I just see Montana , Elway , Marino and Bradshaw as the guys who " seemed "to always come through in the clutch . As far as Marino , I have already stated I think he is one of the top 3-5 qb's ever , He like Elway had teams that had defense's that got pushed around . I judge these guys by what I watched on the field , not yards , comp % and TD's . You are the guy posting the TD's and yards are everything .
The only difference that I see in Favre and the other HOF's is that I watched Favre throw the critical INT's with the game on the line as I and others have already pointed out . So , you and I don't see eye to eye , I have had fun reading all of the post's . Montana , Elway , Bradshaw , Staubach , Marino , Favre , Manning . I did not see Graham , Unitas , Namath and not enough of Sonny J. . Kosar , J. Hart , K. Anderson , L. Dawsen were all great .

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;429337]Not a bad list.
Here is mine:
1- Steve Young
2- Brett Favre
3- Joe Montana
4- Dan Marino
5- Otto Graham
6- Johnny Unitas
7- Roger Staubach
8- Jim Kelly
9- Fran Tarkenton
10- Peyton Manning

I have Peyton Manning 10th cause if he were to retire tomorrow, that's where he'd be in my book...possibly higher. I could easily see Manning as #1 by the time his career is over, and I'm sure Brady would make it too, but if he retired tomorrow he would not be in the top 10.[/QUOTE]

Me and you have had this discussion before, so I mostly know where you stand, but I do have to ask this question to you. Why, on your list, is Favre higher than Montana? I am just wondering if you are weighing more on stats vs. championships? Or better players for one and not the other (ie. Montana to Rice vs. Favre to Freeman, Driver, Sharp, or whoever...)

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

Young and Favre above Montana? Young #1 overall? Yikes.

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[quote=prinzeofmoval;429724]i hate when they rate Montana as number one all time. He played in the best system and had the best cast around him. Same as Steve Young..Hall of Famer?Yes...Great player?Yes but not number 1[/quote]

Every great QB had a great cast around them. I think that's a pretty lame argument.

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;429784]Young and Favre above Montana? Young #1 overall? Yikes.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you on the Young #1 overall, but me and jsarno already had that discussion and we pretty much agreed to disagree...

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

[QUOTE=prinzeofmoval;429724]i hate when they rate Montana as number one all time. He played in the best system and had the best cast around him. Same as Steve Young..Hall of Famer?Yes...Great player?Yes but not number 1[/QUOTE]

That's the thing with a great QB, if they are truely great they make everyone around them appear better than they are. One exception to this in my opinion is Jerry Rice, where he made other QB's look better than they were I am sure that there are other exceptions...

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

IMO rankings eventually becomes a popularity contest. I like Farve, HOF'er yes, Top 10 of all time yes, excellent QB yes. Greatest of all time NO, not even close.
He is great human being, he is a fairly humble guy, from a small Louisana town; fisherman, father died before a game, wife beat cancer. All great stories!
The reason I do not rate him top 5 is because of 2005 (4-12) season 20TD to 29 Int.
2006 was not that great either.
He failed to maintain at least an average level of play while the rest of his team sucked. He was prone to turnover and mistakes, getting impatient and forcing the ball into double and triple coverage. That is not a sign of the GREATEST QB OF ALL TIME as some of you are describing him. He even personally blew in the Giants NFC Championship game this year by AGAIN forcing it to a covered player. His impatience is a weakness the greatest of all time QB should not have. Which why he only owns one SB ring. Keep in mind his worst season did not come early in his career due to inexperience. It came in his prime.
He is an awesome QB and person, but his amzing stats are largely due to the fact he played more games at QB than any other player. He threw more passes than anyone else. That does not make him the greatest.

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

He's anywhere from 10-12 I would say. He was a little to careless with the football to rank any higher on the list of all timers though IMO...great talent though

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

IMO MY Top 10:

1) [B]Sammy Baugh[/B] Best athlete to ever play the position. Singlehandedly revolutionized the position - playing OFF/DEF/ST, and was better than his contemporaries as a qb by a degree that is historically unmatched.

2) [B]Joe Montana[/B]- Great field leader. Smart guy. Knew where to throw the ball. Very well schooled player.

3) [B]Bart Starr[/B] - Same as Montana

4) [B]Johnny Unitas[/B] - say no more

5)[B]Terry Bradshaw[/B] - first 4 SB winner at QB. Brought his team from behind in both SB's vs two very very strong Dallas teams. His throws to Swann and Stallworth in the [B]big game[/B] were incredible. I do not care about stats or that he was on a great team. This guy won the big games.

6) [B]Roger Staubach [/B]- If it weren't for the Steelers, Staubach would have won several more SB's. Tough guy/great leader/Winner

7) [B]Steve Young[/B] statistically a great QB. Overlooked: rushed for over 5000 yards, averaged 6 yards carry and scored 52 rushing TD.s and still a great throwing QB. Five seasons of over 100 Qb rating and five season at or near near [B]70%[/B] completion percentage. Insane numbers and a [B]SB winner[/B]!

8) [B]Tom Brady[/B] - Youngest 3 Sb winner. 7th round pick. Not expected to make the NFL.

9) [B]Brett Farve[/B] - Longest career, one SB.

10) [B]John Elway[/B] - Great athlete.

11) Peyton Manning - Incredible QB. Story still being written, will move way up before career is over.

12) Dan Marino
13) Dan Fouts
13) Otto Grahm
15) Sonny Jurgensen

Re: Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?
 

Marino #12? Wow.

I think he was the best pure passer to have played the game. If he had a RB and some defenses he could have won a couple of Super Bowls. He never had very much help outside of Duper and Clayton in the earlier years.