Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;445006]Let me ask you this. Do you think Pioli of NE, or Polian of Indy would offer basically 2 #1's for Chad Johnson? Or draft 2 young wr's back to back when you've already got a lot of $ tied up in two other guys? Or draft a TE in the second round when you've already got a pro bowl TE and you have a major need at DE? And Brennan was just a waste. No way do you even waste time on him. I mean some of these moves Vinny is making really is making me wonder. I don't think we had an awful draft. I just think it could've been so much better.[/QUOTE]

Well, bottom line I wish those who have issues with the picks could address the way you did in your last two lines there. To say we had an awful draft is quite frankly, retarded, stupid, idiotic, moronic, dumb, etc.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[QUOTE=squrrelco3;445005]Overall, I give it a B-, I'll break my thoughts down by pick and wrap up with an overall:

Devin Thomas: 2nd Round Steal very good pick

Fred Davis: WTF...lol in all honesty though I've started to warm up to him a little bit, my understanding is he was a guy a lot of people thought would go in the first round, and from what I've heard Zorn seems to think that Davis and Cooley can exist in the same formation.

Malcom Kelly: I hear he's another steal, everyone says that the skins may have gotten the two best Receivers in the draft in him and Thomas, and lets be honest, outside of Moss and ARE we aren't exactly deep at the Wideout position right now.

Chad Rinehart: Finally a Lineman, and from what I hear a versatile one that can move between the Tackle and Guard positions fairly easily.

Justin "J.T." Tryon: Hope he's got speed, because he's very short 5'9", but we need CB's and someone thought he was the best one there at the time so who knows.

Durant Brooks: Finally someone who might be able to actually punt.

Kareem Moore: Another smaller dude at 5'11" but we need DB's and he was there.

Colt Brennan: Another possible steal, if nothing else, hopefully that solves the problem of a third stringer...

Rob Jackson: Possibly another Chris Wilson type DE?

Chris Horton: Just adding depth at DB

Overall I would like to have seen more Linemen on both sides of the ball, still not entirely sold on the Davis pick, but maybe that's the big reason I'm on here running my mouth while Cerrato is up there putting together a team. In any event, Zorn says he can make it work, so who knows. Hopefully we can find something after the June 1st cut down, but I have always been a little leery of taking one man's trash and trying to make it our treasure.[/QUOTE]

I was all set to quote GTripp who posted before you, but you addressed every player, and I like your overall grade!
I too have pulled for drafting a stud DE early for the past 13 years. I was let down after I saw the first three picks made in the 2nd round.
I remember we ended up 8th overall D last year, so we are not all bad rotating our guys in and out there on the D Line.
It will be interesting to see the various pubs grades for the B & G!

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

I'm going with a solid B. I really like the talent we now have on offense and I'm confident we can address more of our line problems internally or with UDFA's.

I have a feeling that Davis may make the biggest immediate impact of the first three we chose. I just have a feeling it's gonna be easier for a TE that also has teams focused on Cooley to make some big plays.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

Liked the trade down moves, and given that we're moving to a west coast offense, we need to have the players to make it work. Hence the 2 WRs and the TE (as Matty said: Zorn uses 2 TE sets).

I would have liked, like most of us, to get a good DE or Safety in round 2, but I'm willing to accept that the value wasn't there, or at least that the value we took was better.

Not sure about drafting a punter like that--he better kick some ass!

We'll see--drafts are really graded several seasons down the road.

B/B-

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

There's no such thing as a steal or a reach right now. Sure someone may seem like a steal or a reach, but you have to give them a chance.

There are intelligent and questionable selections though, and I didn't like our train of thought on day one. However, we did address a need that usually takes longer to pan out in the NFL, and I suppose I can appreciate that type of forward thought.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

Overall I think we did very well. I would have liked to address the lines more, but you can only do so much. Getting two recievers of that caliber in the 2nd, and a top-tier TE can only help the new West Coast offense. I'm kinda Zorny right now.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

i'll give them an A on the draft. I thought we had some problems in the red zone last year and adding two big WR's and another TE should fix that. Would have been nice to add an impact DE or S, but the defense has great chemistry and we can work on that next year. The Colt Brennan pick up was very smart. He's a tough guy and if he's healthy, he'll stick around Redskin Park. He'll look good in the preseason.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

I go with a B. I could make a case for an A or C but just don't understand how anyone can give a D or below. I was one of the people who wanted to trade for Chad or Roy Williams so I am delighted that we have addressed the WR position so comprehensively. I also like Fred Davis. We now have depth at all the offensive skill positions.

While a dominating DE would have pushed this to an A I think that the happiest Redskin of all must be Jason Campbell. He now has some serious weapons at his disposal and this could be his breakout year. The red zone was a serious weakness for the offense last year and we have addresses this through the draft. This is going to be an exciting team to watch in 2008.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

I wasn't suprised too much by the 1st round trade.

I would like to say thank you to everyone though. I don't follow college ball much, so the draft has always been rather boring to me. I wouldn't know who was who unless ESPN was talking about it. The amount of knowledge and conversation that I received on this site made a huge difference this year. Thanks, and I'm really glad this site is here.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

I gave you guys a C(+) only in my opinion you did'nt address the Lines more O or D.As for my team I gave them the same ...not a bad draft but I thought we need to address our O line and our LBers,we did but not like I think we should have.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk72;444998]It makes sense if Zorn plans on using plenty of two TE sets, no?[/quote]

It also makes sense if Cooley was to get hurt. If TE is made an integral part of the offense, we have to have starter quality depth at the spot. Yoder is a decent backup but just isn't that guy.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

I voted a C on the first day (really meant a c+) but I grade the whole draft as a solid B. It can't be an A because we missed picking up a DT,DE in the early rounds. If you look at the draft order, I think you see that the chips didn't fall right for us to do it. We had a chance to get the top WR in the 2nd so we did. Smart move. Merling was gone and Law was gone before our next pick. The top TE was available at that time so we took him. You could argue here that we should have taken Calias Campbell but he was not the top guy at his position so you are arguing philospohy of drafting for need vs best player available. Before the next pick, he was gone too. So we took another 1st round talent WR because the remaining DT/DE guys were 2nd/3rd round talent. From there on out we took guys we would all expect to take. Backup o-line in the third and other guys that have a chance to make the team at need positions.

Overall, 8 out of 10 picks have a good chance to make the final 53 man roster. Grade B.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

i gave a (b). i don't know why but should of drafted a d lineman after the wideouts.they must know something in the guy from kanas state i don't.i sure hope he pans out.i see colt in about 3 or 4 years doing something but he has alot to learn as well.i love the big wr thow.go skins.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=Cowell;444884]C.

Things I liked:

1. We got our big receiver. One of those receivers we drafted is going to be a factor, and they both have the potential to be great if they are worked in the right areas.
2. We did draft O-line for a little depth. Turns out Mr. Rinehart can play both guard and tackle well. Nothing better for depth than a utility guy. I'm sure in a few years he will be able to step in and start.


Things I didn't like:
1. Why wait so late to go for a defensive end? We could have had Quentin Groves instead of Malcolm Kelly. Even if we didn't want Quentin Groves we could have had a number of better d-ends than what we ended up with. Why the wait?
2. Instead of a punter we very easily could have gone for more depth on the o-line.
3. Why draft 2 safeties? Even though I'm pretty certain the only time on the field either of them will be seeing is special teams.[/quote]

I agree with your analysis 100%.

One thing I would like to add about the pick regarding the 2nd safety taken. I believe that we could have used that last pick on Vince Hall (LB VT). The staff talked about possibly picking up another LB in the draft. I was stunned that he went undrafted. He would have been a steal in the 7th. He is even more of a steal as a UFA for whatever team signs him.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

I gave them a B, but it is really a solid B+ IMO.

I think they had a good draft - but it's the kind of draft that will take some time to evaluate (unless Thomas or Kelly comes in and tears it up which I do not expect). It's the kind of draft that, if done consistently, can build a long term winner. Take a lot of shots in the lottery in hopes of picking one of the few winning tickets. Also liked that they consistently stuck to their board (Boswell can crucify them, but other than WR this was a team with need for depth not starters). Don't think they reached for anyone and managed to pick up move up, down and around without mortgaging the future.

I like the fact that they got two top-rated WR's. Other teams have done this in the past and come away with one really really good receiver (The one that leaps to mind is Cinci in ages gone by picked receivers 1st and 2nd twice, the first time they got Collingsworth with the second pick and the second time Carl Pickens with the follow-up. In each case, the initial picks didn't pan out). The draft is a lottery, take lots of shots and something will come out of it.

Davis has me, amongst others, scratching my head - but he seems to have been highly rated and one can never have too many good players.

LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the third round pick - the more I read up on him the more I think this is gonna be a guy we keep for awhile. Probably gonna end up taking Kendall's place long term.

The CB - who knows. I like our scouts now that Campbell is running them so, lets see if he hits.

I am good with taking the best punter out of college in the 6th round. If he pans out, we just lenghthed the field for our opponents and shortened it for us. As for Colt, well, offiss can start screaming now how we should never have let this become a need pick but, truth is, given his physical limitations and our status at QB, I think this is a great pick to develop and then (after JC goes to his third pro-bowl) trade for a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

As for the rest, would have liked to more shots at the O-line depth. Now is the time to pick those developmental players and I think there is plenty of safety depth on the UFA market.

Again, I like our scouting department so we'll see if these late rounders stick. I am betting the one of the safeties or the DE makes the squad as a special teamer. If so, I am happy.

All in all, I can see 7 or 8 guys making the team from this draft and, of those, 4 or 5 sticking around for several years. If so, even if none start this year, this would be a pretty phenomenal draft.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk72;444998]It makes sense if Zorn plans on using plenty of two TE sets, no?[/quote]

Yes it makes sense. Davis is a very good TE and he's going to make a difference. It just made me shake my head for a minute.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;445013]Well, bottom line I wish those who have issues with the picks could address the way you did in your last two lines there. To say we had an awful draft is quite frankly, retarded, stupid, idiotic, moronic, dumb, etc.[/quote]

I agree. We've added some guys who hopefully will help us put more points on the board and that's been the problem around here.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=skinsfan69;445111]Yes it makes sense. Davis is a very good TE and he's going to make a difference. It just made me shake my head for a minute.[/quote]

I was surprised too initially, but after realizing he was one of the top TEs in this draft and considering Zorn will frequently be using two TE sets it made me feel a little better about it.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk72;445114]I was surprised too initially, but after realizing he was one of the top TEs in this draft and considering [B]Zorn will frequently be using two TE sets[/B] it made me feel a little better about it.[/quote]


I missed that. Can you please post something refering to that statement? I never heard of a WCO involving multiple 2 TE sets. Zorn must be innovating a little. Unless he is just refering to the Red Zone offense.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[QUOTE=Angry;445117]I missed that. Can you please post something refering to that statement? I never heard of a WCO involving multiple 2 TE sets. Zorn must be innovating a little. Unless he is just refering to the Red Zone offense.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/443888-post744.html[/url]

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

A solid B. At first, I couldn't understand why 2 WRs and a pass catching TE were taken with the first 3 picks, when I thought OL and DL depth were more important, but it was picked up, as well as secondary depth. The Brennan pick is interesting, and if it works out, will be a great asset to have him learn from Campbell and Collins.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;445118][URL]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/443888-post744.html[/URL][/quote]


Interesting, thanks.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=Angry;445117]I missed that. Can you please post something refering to that statement? I never heard of a WCO involving multiple 2 TE sets. Zorn must be innovating a little. Unless he is just refering to the Red Zone offense.[/quote]

Every team in the NFL runs a 2 TE offnese at some point.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

Fred Davis is a GREAT pickup...

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=Angry;445117]I missed that. Can you please post something refering to that statement? I never heard of a WCO involving multiple 2 TE sets. Zorn must be innovating a little. Unless he is just refering to the Red Zone offense.[/quote]

"Walsh often used two tight ends at once"

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/dr_z/news/1999/10/28/inside_football/]CNN/SI - Inside Game - Dr. Z - SI's Dr. Z: The real West Coast offense - Friday October 29, 1999 07:19 PM[/url]

"The [URL="http://www.kffl.com/team/15/nfl"]Broncos[/URL] are a team that runs a hybrid style of WCO, to the extent that at times it looks as if they employ something else. The team often uses two tight ends, and the emphasis on the ground game further helps confuse this issue."

[url=http://www.kffl.com/article/73443/488]KFFL - Article - West Coast Offense: Wide Receivers[/url]

“To be able to put two tight ends on the field, take a tight end off, go with no tight ends, shove them both back on and force that defense to match what we’re doing is pretty significant,” Zorn said, “especially if we go fast.”

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-nfldraft-redskins&prov=ap&type=lgns]Redskins load up on receivers on Day 1 of draft - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

"There are a lot of formations with two tight ends in Jim Zorn's offense that he'll be utilized in," Cerrato said.

[url=http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=35408]Draft Strategy Emphasized Value[/url]

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=BDBohnzie;445122]A solid B. At first, I couldn't understand why 2 WRs and a pass catching TE were taken with the first 3 picks, when I thought OL and DL depth were more important, but it was picked up, as well as secondary depth. The Brennan pick is interesting, and if it works out, will be a great asset to have him learn from Campbell and Collins.[/quote]

I'm looking at it this way. We need to score more points and that's the bottom line. We don't have enough playmakers on offense and by drafting these three guys they could help us score more points. I think everyone can agree that we need more playmakers on offense. Right?

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

Draft guru Mel Kiper Jr. gave us a B+. That is tied with the Browns and Cowboys for the second best draft grade. The Chiefs got the only A.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

C. The lines needed to be addressed. If JC doesn't have time to throw, then it doesn't matter if we lined up Owens, Chad Johnson and Marvin Harrison. I liked the Devin Thomas pick and that addressed a need, but I would have gone with an offensive or defensive line pick with at least one of the other two 2nd round pics if not both. TE is a strength for us and finding a 2nd TE for the west coast offense is alot easier then finding a pass rushing DE or dominant offensive lineman.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

Of all the needs the Skins have WR is not one of them. I like drafting the OL and the punter. The Skins had a golden opportunity and didnt fully optimise their chances. Someday they will realize you build a team from the inside out.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

WR was not a need coming off last year? Wow.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

B - Overall, the Redskins had a very solid draft. I was a little worried when they traded out of the first round when quality players were still available, but their calculated move panned out and they not only got the player they wanted, Malcolm Kelly but Devin Thomas fell into their lap. Two moves that were questionable to me, 1) selecting a tight end and 2) selecting a punter. Both players they selected were the best at their positions but offensive line and defensive line were more pressing needs. Eventually they addressed most of their needs and only time will tell whether these picks were great or mediocre.

Players I Really Like:
Devin Thomas WR Michigan State
Malcolm Kelly WR Oklahoma
Colt Brennan QB Hawaii

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

Well, I agree with Irish on one thing, that the most critical need at WR was a no. 1 type guy who had the speed, but was also established in college, and who would develop into the leader of the Skins receiving corps.

We didn't draft a guy like that, simply because there wasn't really anyone like that in the draft. We drafted a pair of number two receivers, to pair with our pair of already number two receivers on the roster.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to like about the strategy of picking out the critical need and just killing it. I particularly like the reasoning that "we needed to improve our red zone offense" as opposed to "we need a wide receiver". We just landed a pair of mid level players, which is fine for where they were drafted, but neither will develop into a "true number one".

We are going to regret not cashing in big on this 2nd round, though I think Malcolm Kelly and Santana will make a nice tandem from 2009-on.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;445155]Well, I agree with Irish on one thing, that the most critical need at WR was a no. 1 type guy who had the speed, but was also established in college, and who would develop into the leader of the Skins receiving corps.

We didn't draft a guy like that, simply because there wasn't really anyone like that in the draft. We drafted a pair of number two receivers, to pair with our pair of already number two receivers on the roster.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to like about the strategy of picking out the critical need and just killing it. I particularly like the reasoning that "we needed to improve our red zone offense" as opposed to "we need a wide receiver". We just landed a pair of mid level players, which is fine for where they were drafted, but neither will develop into a "true number one".[/QUOTE]

There's no way of knowing whether either of the two wideouts we drafted will develop into #1 guys, but they both have the size and ability to do just that. Now it depends on coaching and putting them into positions to succeed, something we haven't excelled at recently (see Lloyd, Brandon).

If we're going to see what Campbell has, then we've got to get him weapons. I think that's what this draft was all about.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

LOL none of these guys have strapped on a Redskins helmet yet and people already know how their careers are going to go. Hilarious.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

At frist I was a bit upset with us not taking a top tier DL help but after I had time to mual it over it was a solid draft. B+

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

Who said that they "know how their careers are going to go"?

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;445175]Who said that they "know how their careers are going to go"?[/quote]

Didn't you just say neither will develop into a #1 WR?

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

Many will question drafting both players: Fred Davis and Malcolm Kelly, after drafting Devin Thomas. But just you also need quality backup at the TE position too. If Merling is available and is ranked on our board just just lower than Davis or Kelly, we would've likely selected Merling because it's not much of a reach. Ther's no question that Merling is a better prospect (for our scheme) than Calais Campbell.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;445155]Well, I agree with Irish on one thing, that the most critical need at WR was a no. 1 type guy who had the speed, but was also established in college, and who would develop into the leader of the Skins receiving corps.

We didn't draft a guy like that, simply because there wasn't really anyone like that in the draft. We drafted a pair of number two receivers, to pair with our pair of already number two receivers on the roster.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to like about the strategy of picking out the critical need and just killing it. I particularly like the reasoning that "we needed to improve our red zone offense" as opposed to "we need a wide receiver". We just landed a pair of mid level players, which is fine for where they were drafted, but neither will develop into a "true number one".

We are going to regret not cashing in big on this 2nd round, though I think Malcolm Kelly and Santana will make a nice tandem from 2009-on.[/quote]

Don't you think you're being a little too tough on Kelly and Thomas? Kelly did start all 4 years at Ok. That's pretty damn impressive if you ask me. Don't you think so? How many wr's start all 4 years at a top college program? No many, if any at all. Right now it's just too early to tell if these guys are #1's or #2's.

Re: Overall Draft Grade for the Redskins
 

Overall grade is B. I think we could pass on Fred Davis and take a pass rusher instead. With an impact defensive end it would be a sure A.