Re: Jason Campbell pulled his hammy
 

[QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;448061]My point was that if Collins was such a good QB, potential starter material, why didn't any other team make him an offer with starter $$$, or close to it. The Bears, Vikes, Lions, Jets, Falcons all need QB help, why no big $$ offers (rhetorical)....Because the talent evaluators in the NFL know he is what he has been for the last 10 years, a back-up QB.

For you guys that think Collins is the "second-coming" did you not see the Seattle playoff game.[/QUOTE]

I think your misunderstanding everyone's thoughts on Collins, 1, teams aren't going to give a huge contract to a career backup who had success in 4 games and lost the last game he played, 2, Collins success was more of an indictment on Campbells lack there of, in other words if a career backup who is really a little old to be playing the position can come in and turn our season around then what is wrong with Campbell?

Re: Jason Campbell pulled his hammy
 

My question to the Campbell bashers-what games did he COST us last season? I've watched all of our games at least 3 times from last year and I can't pinpoint one where he just f-ed it up so badly we had no chance to win.

I will grant that he didn't outright win any games for us yet (though the 1st Philly game is close), but he put us in position to win 4 more games (NYG-terrible playcalling 2nd half, TB-6 turnovers, Dallas-the TO show, Philly-Reggie Brown long TD & Westbrook screen) that by virtue of turnovers or defensive collapses we were in need of him bailing us out.

Re: Jason Campbell pulled his hammy
 

[quote=HOGTIMUS PRIME;448137]I think your misunderstanding everyone's thoughts on Collins, 1, teams aren't going to give a huge contract to a career backup who had success in 4 games and lost the last game he played, 2, Collins success was more of an indictment on Campbells lack there of, in other words if a career backup who is really a little old to be playing the position can come in and turn our season around then what is wrong with Campbell?[/quote]
See post # 51. I wouldn't say Collins "turned our season around", that's giving the guy a bit too much credit. The 100+ yards rushing per game, solid defense, weather, and the Cowboys locking up home field had a great deal more to do with our last 4 wins than Collins QB play (not to say he wasn't solid).

Bottom line is Campbell gives the Redskins a better chance to win games now than Collins and also has a tremendous upside. He is our QB for at least the next two years barring serious injury.

Re: Jason Campbell pulled his hammy
 

[QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;448269]See post # 51. I wouldn't say Collins "turned our season around", that's giving the guy a bit too much credit. The 100+ yards rushing per game, solid defense, weather, and the Cowboys locking up home field had a great deal more to do with our last 4 wins than Collins QB play (not to say he wasn't solid).

Bottom line is Campbell gives the Redskins a better chance to win games now than Collins and also has a tremendous upside. He is our QB for at least the next two years barring serious injury.[/QUOTE]

And what is not being understood is that Collins ability to read a defense and find the open man is why the running game opened up, defenses could no longer stack the box, as well as his ability to maintain drives helped keep our defense off the field, so they were fresh when they were on the field.

Campbell has a lot to prove, because he has proven nothing up till now. Tremendous upside? Athletically, yes, mentally? I haven't seen a hint of that upside, QB is all about the smarts, the NFL is full of athletically gifted dummy's at QB.

Re: Jason Campbell pulled his hammy
 

[quote=HOGTIMUS PRIME;448552]Campbell has a lot to prove, because he has proven nothing up till now. Tremendous upside? Athletically, yes, mentally? I haven't seen a hint of that upside, QB is all about the smarts, the NFL is full of athletically gifted dummy's at QB.[/quote]
Are you implying Campbell is a "dummy"? Did you not read post # 51?

I'm sure we will be referring back to this thread once the season starts. I'll take the heat if Campbell fails to develop, but be sure I'll be calling out you and those that said or implied JC doesn't have the smarts to cut it when we see improvement.

Re: Jason Campbell pulled his hammy
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588;448060]True, that Leinart fell in to a system with 2 pro-bowl receivers but lets face facts also, the O-line that Leinart has to protect him is far from being one of the best in the league. I mean that line last season gave up 24 sacks and only alowed there running game to average 3.6 yards a carry only leaving KC and the Bears worse than them. Where Ben and Rivers not only fell in to a good system but they also fell in to good teams...[/QUOTE]

I give you the O-line bit...But only person who benefit from that was Big Ben..Phillip Rivers line isn't much to go bragging about. Last year they didn't give any help to Rivers or L.T. who looked more like Barry Sanders who had to create his own runs rather then Willie Parker who got 4 yards before he was touched.

Re: Jason Campbell pulled his hammy
 

[QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;448638]Are you implying Campbell is a "dummy"? Did you not read post # 51
I'm sure we will be referring back to this thread once the season starts. I'll take the heat if Campbell fails to develop, but be sure I'll be calling out you and those that said or implied JC doesn't have the smarts to cut it when we see improvement.[/QUOTE]



[QUOTE]Are you implying Campbell is a "dummy"? Did you not read post # 51?
[/QUOTE]

So far he has been on the field, not to say he's Joe pisarcik out there, but he's shown no real ability to read a defense and pick it apart.

[QUOTE]You imply that Campbell lacks "brains". I would say the Wonderlic test is a good raw indicator of "brains". Campbell scored a 28. Lets look at some other "smart" QBs: Hasselbeck - 29, Peyton Manning - 25, Marc Bulger - 29, Drew Brees - 28, Carson Palmer - 26, Tom Brady - 33. Not only is your statement insulting, it's flat-out wrong. Before you make statements like that you should check your facts so you don't appear to lack "brains".
[/QUOTE]


You may want to re check your facts on the wonderlic scores Cambell scored a 23.

[url=http://www.macmirabile.com/wonderlic.htm]NFL Quarterback Wonderlic scores[/url]

From what I have heard is a player can study to pass the wonderlic which doesn't necessarily make him smart, 1 thing for sure is that test will never measure football smarts which really comes down to instinct at the position, if you look at those test scores there are a lot of high scores from players who couldn't sniff the field.

Bottom line is the player needs to prove it on the field and Campbell has been far from that, lets hope the WCO which has made many a QB look much better than he really was gets him going.

Re: Jason Campbell pulled his hammy
 

[quote=HOGTIMUS PRIME;448767]So far he has been on the field, not to say he's Joe pisarcik out there, but he's shown no real ability to read a defense and pick it apart.




You may want to re check your facts on the wonderlic scores Cambell scored a 23.

[URL="http://www.macmirabile.com/wonderlic.htm"]NFL Quarterback Wonderlic scores[/URL]

From what I have heard is a player can study to pass the wonderlic which doesn't necessarily make him smart, 1 thing for sure is that test will never measure football smarts which really comes down to instinct at the position, if you look at those test scores there are a lot of high scores from players who couldn't sniff the field.

Bottom line is the player needs to prove it on the field and Campbell has been far from that, lets hope the WCO which has made many a QB look much better than he really was gets him going.[/quote]
The initial article I referenced is listed first. I double-checked my facts from reputable/reliable sources.

[URL="http://sportsyenta.blogspot.com/2007/02/bring-on-annual-wonderlic-fun.html"]Rumors and Rants: Bring On The Annual Wonderlic Fun[/URL]

[URL="http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2005draft/Campbell,Jason-QB-Auburn.htm"]USATODAY.com[/URL]

[URL="http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Insider/2005/Wonderlic.htm#qb"]NFL Draft - NFL draft preview and analysis from Pro Football Weekly[/URL]

Before I quote a blog from some strategic analyst at a non-profit in Northern VA who used to work for the college paper, I would make sure he has the right info, which he doesn't. I've seen the number of 23 on a couple of other blogs which is probably the average of the three times Campbell took the test. The first time he got a 14, the second a 27, the third a 28.

I guess we'll just have to wait for the season because although Campbell has made some mistakes he has made some very good plays and is making progress and will be at worst a solid NFL QB.

Re: Jason Campbell pulled his hammy
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588;448062]I understand what you are saying, I am not defending Campbell. I am just saying that Ben and Rivers had everything set up for them to succeed. And the one thing that you are missing is that Campbell did not have a very good playcaller and the offense that he was running has not fully matured under Sanders and Gibbs. I guess you could say that some of the offense was predictable at times...[/QUOTE]

I agree. Hello everyone Im new to Warpath.

I think Gibbs didn't give JC a chance to prove himself. Also why blame JC for the Dallas/Tampa games(or any of the other 5 losses) when his teammates were not doing their part. I think JC did well with what he had to work with.

Re: Jason Campbell pulled his hammy
 

[quote=redskinsgirl;448858]I agree. Hello everyone Im new to Warpath.

I think Gibbs didn't give JC a chance to prove himself. Also why blame JC for the Dallas/Tampa games(or any of the other 5 losses) when his teammates were not doing their part. I think JC did well with what he had to work with.[/quote]
Welcome to the board redskinsgirl. :)

As far as your thoughts on Gibbs and JC, I think he and Saunders gave JC as much as they thought he could handle. Saunders' offense probably wasn't the best fit for him and coupled with the usual QB growing pains, he struggled a bit. Hopefully he'll improve dramatically under Zorn.

Re: Jason Campbell pulled his hammy
 

[QUOTE=redskinsgirl;448858]I agree. Hello everyone Im new to Warpath.

I think Gibbs didn't give JC a chance to prove himself. Also why blame JC for the Dallas/Tampa games(or any of the other 5 losses) when his teammates were not doing their part. I think JC did well with what he had to work with.[/QUOTE]
Welcome to the board.

Why do you say that Gibbs didn't give Campbell a chance to prove himself? Are you saying that they limited the offense when he was in there and then opened it up for Collins?

Re: Jason Campbell pulled his hammy
 

I don't think it's any secret that the offense was more limited with JC at the helm and honestly I thought that was the right approach with a young QB. You could see things opening up as the season went on though as JC was calling his own plays when they ran the no huddle.

Re: Jason Campbell pulled his hammy
 

[QUOTE=ArtMonkDrillz;448861]Welcome to the board.

Why do you say that Gibbs didn't give Campbell a chance to prove himself? Are you saying that they limited the offense when he was in there and then opened it up for Collins?[/QUOTE]

Yes I felt they limited the offense with him. I feel that Gibbs just wanted to ease him into the system. I think they trust Collins a little more because he was in the system longer.

I feel some fans haven't given JC a chance. He only played 16 games. He may not have played like Brady, but he didn't do a bad job.

Re: Jason Campbell pulled his hammy
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;448782]The initial article I referenced is listed first. I double-checked my facts from reputable/reliable sources.

[URL="http://sportsyenta.blogspot.com/2007/02/bring-on-annual-wonderlic-fun.html"]Rumors and Rants: Bring On The Annual Wonderlic Fun[/URL]

[URL="http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2005draft/Campbell,Jason-QB-Auburn.htm"]USATODAY.com[/URL]

[URL="http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Insider/2005/Wonderlic.htm#qb"]NFL Draft - NFL draft preview and analysis from Pro Football Weekly[/URL]

Before I quote a blog from some strategic analyst at a non-profit in Northern VA who used to work for the college paper, I would make sure he has the right info, which he doesn't. I've seen the number of 23 on a couple of other blogs which is probably the average of the three times Campbell took the test. The first time he got a 14, the second a 27, the third a 28.

I guess we'll just have to wait for the season because although Campbell has made some mistakes he has made some very good plays and is making progress and will be at worst a solid NFL QB.[/quote]

Who cares about this test? Alex Smith scored a 40, was the #1 pick of the 05 draft and he's not NFL material.

Re: Jason Campbell pulled his hammy
 

[quote=Paintrain;448149]My question to the Campbell bashers-what games did he COST us last season? I've watched all of our games at least 3 times from last year and I can't pinpoint one where he just f-ed it up so badly we had no chance to win.

I will grant that he didn't outright win any games for us yet (though the 1st Philly game is close), but he put us in position to win 4 more games (NYG-terrible playcalling 2nd half, TB-6 turnovers, Dallas-the TO show, Philly-Reggie Brown long TD & Westbrook screen) that by virtue of turnovers or defensive collapses we were in need of him bailing us out.[/quote]

Before I begin, let me just say I'm one of the biggest Campbell fans in this board and with another year of proper devolopment in Zorn's system I really think he can be an elite quarterback in this league, but I also feel there were 2 games that he directly attributed to the loss at last year.

The first game was the Dallas game, let's just say percentage wise our defense giving up 4 touchdowns to Dallas was probably the biggest reason we lost the game, but don't forget that on our final drive Campbell drove us down the field into the red zone, and then threw a direct pass to Terance Newman who got the pick and that ended the game. That was Campbell's mistake and had he not thrown that game ending interception there was probably a 50/50 shot that we get a touchdown and win the game.

The second was the Tampa Bay game. Again, the biggest reason we probably lost was 6 turnovers, but let's not forget that we were in the game until the end. Once again, Campbell drove us down the field, managing the clock and picking up yards, and then we got into the red zone and he threw a pick to Ronde Barber. That's the second game where you could say he directly cost us, because that effectively ended the game and we lost again, and again, there was probably a 50/50 shot had he not thrown that interception that we get a touchdown and we win the game.

I'm not trying to say Campbell sucks here, because right now I do believe that he is a manageable quarterback in this league and with Zorn's help he can become elite, but I do believe that those two plays cost us the chance to win both games last year. Personally, I attributed those game-ending interceptions to the fact that he's young and very inexperienced when it comes to game winning drives, and once he gets more experience with that it shouldn't be much of a problem.

Re: Jason Campbell pulled his hammy
 

[quote=skinsfan69;449139]Who cares about this test? Alex Smith scored a 40, was the #1 pick of the 05 draft and he's not NFL material.[/quote]
I pulled this info in response to people who implied/said that Campbell "lacked brains". Based on the Wonderlic, his scores are in line with some of the top NFL QBs. I would say that the personnel departments of every NFL team care about the Wonderlic or they wouldn't give the test or use it in their player evaluations.

Are there several other factors that go into someone developing into a solid NFL QB, absolutely.