Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[QUOTE=SC Skins Fan;450921]I'd say that leading the league in rushing attempts is a pretty good start and would actually place the burden on you to demonstrate that your point is valid. Leading all rushers in attempts strikes me as a priori evidence that you are wrong. I don't have the desire to go through every play-by-play or comb through every game tape to make the point that you are wrong. The onus is on you to prove your point because the "nice numbers" suggest otherwise.

You can't even get that info from the play-by-play since that does not show who is on the field on passing downs. So after you cull through the game films why don't you let me know what you find. Good luck.[/QUOTE]

I watched it when it happened so I know what I saw. I also saw in today's Post that Zorn said CP will not be at liberty to come out of the game whenever he wants like he could in Gibbs system.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[QUOTE=smoot27;451000]True true, Portis is a 1400-1500 a year kinda back when at hes best...............but funny thing is at his best could be way more.

I think a Broncos Portis is just or maybe as close as you can get to a LT back that not even Adrian Peterson can say anything about that.[/QUOTE]

Thats what I am trying to say. CP is doing a good job but when I watch him I think he could be so much better if he stayed in the game more.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;450918]LOL this is comical.

He gives you some solid analysis and all you can come back with is a totally subjective and weak take that you saw him sucking wind.

Brilliant.

:doh:[/QUOTE]

Cutting and pasting stats isnt analysis.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[QUOTE=irish;451189]Cutting and pasting stats isnt analysis.[/QUOTE]

Yeah it's certainly not as compelling as "I know what I saw"

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[quote=irish;451042]Thats what I am trying to say. CP is doing a good job but when I watch him I think he could be so much better if he stayed in the game more.[/quote]
Here's some statistical analysis (I challenge you to find these to cut & paste):

Portis was directly involved in 35% of the Redskins total offensive plays, this means he either ran or made a catch. He was also responsible for 77% of the total runs made by Redskins' RBs. Below are the same stats for other "workhorse" type backs:

LT = 38%, 81%
Westbrook = 35%, 81%
Edge = 34%, 88%
Parker = 34%, 75%
Addai (since you mentioned him) = 29%, 63%

Portis' numbers are similar to these guys, not to mention he led the league in carries. Would you say LT, Westbrook, Edge or Parker comes out to "suck wind"? How much more of a workload would you put on Portis? Every play and carry takes a toll, what happens when Portis is worked to death, go to Betts, Rock? Because you saw Portis come out of a game or two for a brief rest, don't over-generalize into the "sucking wind" comments.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[quote=irish;451189]Cutting and pasting stats isnt analysis.[/quote]

It sure beats what you're bringing to the table which is basically nothing.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;451198]Here's some statistical analysis (I challenge you to find these to cut & paste):

Portis was directly involved in 35% of the Redskins total offensive plays, this means he either ran or made a catch. He was also responsible for 77% of the total runs made by Redskins' RBs. Below are the same stats for other "workhorse" type backs:

LT = 38%, 81%
Westbrook = 35%, 81%
Edge = 34%, 88%
Parker = 34%, 75%
Addai (since you mentioned him) = 29%, 63%

Portis' numbers are similar to these guys, not to mention he led the league in carries. Would you say LT, Westbrook, Edge or Parker comes out to "suck wind"? How much more of a workload would you put on Portis? Every play and carry takes a toll, what happens when Portis is worked to death, go to Betts, Rock? Because you saw Portis come out of a game or two for a brief rest, don't over-generalize into the "sucking wind" comments.[/quote]

Give it up, he's not going to have an answer for you, at least not one that offers any sort of meaningful thought.

He saw him sucking wind, end of discussion.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;451199]It sure beats what you're bringing to the table which is basically nothing.[/QUOTE]

I made observations and drew conclusions (maybe right, maybe wrong). Cutting and pasting stats and saying that 94 is higher that 78 isnt analysis, it reguritating numbers. Maybe has some interesting conclusion been drawn from those stats I'd call it analysis but it isnt.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;451198]Here's some statistical analysis (I challenge you to find these to cut & paste):

Portis was directly involved in 35% of the Redskins total offensive plays, this means he either ran or made a catch. He was also responsible for 77% of the total runs made by Redskins' RBs. Below are the same stats for other "workhorse" type backs:

LT = 38%, 81%
Westbrook = 35%, 81%
Edge = 34%, 88%
Parker = 34%, 75%
Addai (since you mentioned him) = 29%, 63%

Portis' numbers are similar to these guys, not to mention he led the league in carries. Would you say LT, Westbrook, Edge or Parker comes out to "suck wind"? How much more of a workload would you put on Portis? Every play and carry takes a toll, what happens when Portis is worked to death, go to Betts, Rock? Because you saw Portis come out of a game or two for a brief rest, don't over-generalize into the "sucking wind" comments.[/QUOTE]

Matty, FYI, this is analysis. Using numbers to draw a conclusion. Good post Sammy.

Its not a game or 2, its every game. These numbers lead me to believe the Skins really get the most out of CP. Like I said, he's still a productive back but like you said, he's being worked to death which leads me to believe he's an old 26. It will be interesting to see how Zorn works him and how he handles not being able to come out whan he wants.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[QUOTE=irish;451208]Matty, FYI, this is analysis. Using numbers to draw a conclusion. Good post Sammy.

Its not a game or 2, its every game. These numbers lead me to believe the Skins really get the most out of CP. Like I said, he's still a productive back but like you said, he's being worked to death [B]which leads me to believe he's an old 26.[/B] It will be interesting to see how Zorn works him and how he handles not being able to come out whan he wants.[/QUOTE]

I too get the feeling that we are working him a little hard and wearing his treads quickly. He's a great back but he takes a real pounding every year. I can see another injury popping up in the next couple of years if he keeps getting pushed like this. Betts really needed to step up last year, and he never really lived up to that nice contract he signed. If he can't this year you have to question the decision to re-sign him to that fat contract. The point is, Portis needs someone else to take more of the load.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

werent alot of us on warpath wondering if portis' decision to take it easy during pre-season last year was the reason he was not in "game shape" for the first couple of weeks? (sucking wind as some might call it)

and many made arguments that LT does it and it doesnt effect him and how portis was right that a runningback needs less reps in pre-season . . .

dont know where this fits into the whole discussion going on here, but portis was definetly out of shape beginning of the season and gibbs said we would ease him back in slowly bringing his reps up each game (then goes on to rush the hell out of him right out of the gate!)

portis is the best player we got outside of randy thomas

go skins! (sorry about this jumpy post, theres a freakin tornado outside)

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

Let's remember that Portis had a knee issue during the preseason.

And second, Gibbs [I]did[/I] ease him in to things. He didn't have 20 carries in a game until week 6. In fact, through the first 7 games he had 115 carries, or an average of 16.4 per game. In the last 9 games his carries really took off and he averaged 23 per game down the stretch.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

yeah im not on either side of this argument, just surprised noone mentioned that portis took it easy during preseason when the topic was his conditioning.

matty come on, was it the "knee" or the fact that portis has never liked preseason and his injury 2 years ago in the first preseason game tied gibbs hands alil and gave him a bye . . . portis took last preseason off and while he did work out it took him a while to get into game shape and speed.

interesting portis didnt have more than 20 carries until week 6, i was wrong. that makes portis' stat as having the most carries even more interesting.

go skins!

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[quote=over the mountain;451415]yeah im not on either side of this argument, just surprised noone mentioned that portis took it easy during preseason when the topic was his conditioning.

[B]matty come on, was it the "knee" or the fact that portis has never liked preseason and his injury 2 years ago in the first preseason game tied gibbs hands alil and gave him a bye . . . portis took last preseason off and while he did work out it took him a while to get into game shape and speed.[/B]

interesting portis didnt have more than 20 carries until week 6, i was wrong. that makes portis' stat as having the most carries even more interesting.

go skins![/quote]

Who knows. The team said it was knee tendonitis so that's what I'm going by. Anything else is pure speculation.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

yeah LT has "knee tendonitis" around the same time of year too! (jokes)

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

I think he did have an injury. It might have been minor but I think everyone wanted to play it safe with him and as a result they were probably too protective of him in the preseason.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[quote=Daseal;450745]Skinsfan_nn -- you seem to equate running the ball with production. That isn't always the case. Portis had a much higher YPC in Denver than in DC. I also don't think he'll ever get back to his Denver form. Denver is the type of system that RBs thrive in.[/quote]

When Portis was playing in Denver anyone could run against the Raiders, Chiefs, and Chargers. This was not a particularly dominant defensive division and although it has gotten better since Portis has left, it is nowhere close to what the NFC East is defensivly.

You need to take into account the reason that Portis' YPC has dropped since coming to the Redskins because his competition is much, much better and he still is one of the top backs in the league. I don't think it is as much schematically as it is competition. Although I do feel he will have a more wide open offense and a better chance to succeed in the West Coast, but it's not going to be like playing in the AFCW.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

[QUOTE=Skinsfanmania;451678]When Portis was playing in Denver anyone could run against the Raiders, Chiefs, and Chargers. This was not a particularly dominant defensive division and although it has gotten better since Portis has left, it is nowhere close to what the NFC East is defensivly.

You need to take into account the reason that Portis' YPC has dropped since coming to the Redskins because his competition is much, much better and he still is one of the top backs in the league. I don't think it is as much schematically as it is competition. Although I do feel he will have a more wide open offense and a better chance to succeed in the West Coast, but it's not going to be like playing in the AFCW.[/QUOTE]

I do agree that the AFCW did not have great defenses back when he was in Denver. I really don't care what division Denver is playing in, or how good the defenses that they play are. Running backs always thrive in Shanahan's system. Year in and year out. Hell, I could be a great back in Shanahan's system... that being said Portis is not going to return to Denver form. He will be better, but not Denver form.

Re: Updated Title: Will Portis Shine Again in a West Coast Offense?
 

As much as I hate to say it, I think CP is as talented as LT. I think he is much more dangerous at around 205 to 210. If he's playing around that weight he will be a BEAST in the WC offense.