Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

This was Jason's season. All of it. If the offense has a good year the QB gets the glory. If it isn't, then you get the blame.

If Zorn did start Colt in the last games then it's a HUGE sign to me that he doesn't believe Jason can carry this team. He won't do that.

Zorn will let Jason finish the season and think things over in the quiet of the off-season.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;506694]What has Colt done that is so great? He had two good games and two really bad games against 3rd stringers in the preseason. If you bench Campbell, you might as well cut him. Are you prepared to throw Campbell to the scrap heap for a guy who has never taken a single snap in an NFL game? If you are, you've got a lot of blind faith.[/quote]
colt hasnt done anything great. but if we are out of the playoff hunt...hes worth a look.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=charlielyons;506681]the same people who dont want campbell benched are also the same ones who wanted greg williams as HC. change is a good thing sometimes[/quote]

That's definitely not true.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quo[B][B]te=charlielyons;506681]the same people who dont want campbell benched are also the same ones who wanted greg williams as HC[/B][/B]. change is a good thing sometimes[/quote]

That's :bs:........... Just saw on Comcast JC is the 3rd most sacked QB in the NFL.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

the offensive line has big problems, but JC does not read the defensive quickly and his release is very slow.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=SmootSmack;506689]Well this is one poster who didn't want Williams as HC, and doesn't want Campbell benched.[/quote]

same here

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

Charlie - This is exactly why players try to tune out the fans voice, I really don't understand why you wan't to see colt so much. Coaches see him in practice along side JC and TC. Believe me, they know more about these QBs than you do - or for that matter pretty much any of us do. Even if we go out of the playoff race, I HIGHLY doubt that we will see any of Colt in a game situation unless something truely catastrophic happens. Just not going to happen bud - let it go.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

Colt is a damn good QB who brings energy to the offense.He is a future pro-bowler,remember that i said this a few years from now...I just hope its not on another team!!!!!

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

Campbell is slow in his reads and hesitant in his decisions.Id rather have a gun-slinger someone who takes chances downfield, brings energy,and excitement..THE OFFENSE IS STAGNANT WITHOUT PORTIS!!!!!!

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

JC needs as much time in this offense as he can get... to get better. Benching him would retard that growth just as some of these posts have retarded this thread.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=53Fan;506743]JC needs as much time in this offense as he can get... to get better. Benching him would retard that growth just as some of these posts have retarded this thread.[/quote]

:laughing2So true though...

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

If any of you have watched Brennan in college youd understand what i mean about his energy.Dont read all the hype about hes to short,hes not fundemental,he throws sidearm,he has attitude problems,etc.etc.etc.He has an ACCURATE arm,he throws the ball deep,he makes quick descisions,he plays with intensity.I know this is a bold statement but he has something to prove..WAIT AND SEE!!!!!

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=JLW428;506733]Charlie - This is exactly why players try to tune out the fans voice, I really don't understand why you wan't to see colt so much. Coaches see him in practice along side JC and TC. Believe me, they know more about these QBs than you do - or for that matter pretty much any of us do. Even if we go out of the playoff race, I HIGHLY doubt that we will see any of Colt in a game situation unless something truely catastrophic happens. Just not going to happen bud - let it go.[/quote]
I agree they know more than me. I have been a skins fan since i could walk and no quarterback has me as excited as Colt Brennan has. I would be preaching the same thing no matter what team he was playing for. Im probably a little less patient because im a skins fan. I would love nothing more than for Campbell to light it up, but i think in our scheme(WCO)fundamentaly Brennan is a long term better fit.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

I for one am very excited about Colt. I just don't think benching JC and putting Colt in would be a good idea right now. In fact I think it would create chaos as to what we're trying to do here. Colt will get his chance to keep growing and if JC proves he can't provide what Zorn is looking for, Colt will get his chance. I would love to see him TAKE the number 2 spot next year. He's an exciting guy to watch.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

Brennan played in such a shitty defensive division you can't really count all that. Sure he could throw for a ton of yards when he got loads of time and bad coverage.

What happened when he played a real college team? Well ask the Bulldogs when they destroyed Colt on national television. Looked terrible. And you are the same people who want him to get in for JC and play versus the Ravens???

LOL, it's too funny.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=hooskins;506759]Brennan played in such a shitty defensive division you can't really count all that. Sure he could throw for a ton of yards when he got loads of time and bad coverage.

What happened when he played a real college team? Well ask the Bulldogs when they destroyed Colt on national television. Looked terrible. And you are the same people who want him to get in for JC and play versus the Ravens???

LOL, it's too funny.[/quote]
not against the Ravens....but when we are out of the playoff hunt.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=charlielyons;506760]not against the Ravens....but when we are out of the playoff hunt.[/quote]

Ok, sure. Let him play against Philly. See what happens.

If that isn't a situation to scar an un-fundamental, weak college divison, side-armed throwing QB, I don't know what else is.

I am glad fans don't run this team....

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

hey let's also pickup Timmy Chang! he passed a lot too!

But seriously Brennan already criticized for releasing the ball too late. I mean we get mad at Campbell for being slow, this guy is worst. Also sidearming is bad because it makes him shorter.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=hooskins;506763]Ok, sure. Let him play against Philly. See what happens.

If that isn't a situation to scar an un-fundamental, weak college divison, side-armed throwing QB, I don't know what else is.

I am glad fans don't run this team....[/quote]
have to get expierence at some point.....What is up with the Campbell love fest. Campbell wasnt exactly lights out in Auburn. He hid behind 2 top5 draft pick running backs and a top rated defense.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[QUOTE=charlielyons;506757]I agree they know more than me. I have been a skins fan since i could walk and no quarterback has me as excited as Colt Brennan has. I would be preaching the same thing no matter what team he was playing for. Im probably a little less patient because im a skins fan. I would love nothing more than for Campbell to light it up, but i think in our scheme[B](WCO)[/B]fundamentaly Brennan is a long term better fit.[/Q

Do you remeber when JC played for auburn? That was the WCO. I know you can say its because of Williams and Brown, but never the less its still takes a QB who understands how to run a WCO. Jason holds many of the recods at Auburn. He executed the WCO to perfection there. It was a different WCO but still a WCO.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=JLW428;506766][quote=charlielyons;506757]I agree they know more than me. I have been a skins fan since i could walk and no quarterback has me as excited as Colt Brennan has. I would be preaching the same thing no matter what team he was playing for. Im probably a little less patient because im a skins fan. I would love nothing more than for Campbell to light it up, but i think in our scheme[B](WCO)[/B]fundamentaly Brennan is a long term better fit.[/Q

Do you remeber when JC played for auburn? That was the WCO. I know you can say its because of Williams and Brown, but never the less its still takes a QB who understands how to run a WCO. Jason holds many of the recods at Auburn. He executed the WCO to perfection there. It was a different WCO but still a WCO.[/quote]
your making my point for me....he is not running this one good at all....where is the disconnect with Campbell?

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=charlielyons;506767][quote=JLW428;506766]
your making my point for me....he is not running this one good at all....where is the disconnect with Campbell?[/quote]

I guess I should have been a little more clear - My point is that perhaps its not JC, perhaps it is the way the WCO is being called (caugh, caugh, Zorn).

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=JLW428;506768][quote=charlielyons;506767]

I guess I should have been a little more clear - My point is that perhaps its not JC, perhaps it is the way the WCO is being called (caugh, caugh, Zorn).[/quote]
Well I agree he has been too conservative as of late, but the NFL and college are 2 different things as you well know. Brennan has better WCO tools, such as a fast windup and release. Campbell can be a good quarterback, i just dont think he suits this scheme well in the pros.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

I can't quite grasp why so many fellow Redskins fans are convinced that Colt Brennan is the second coming of Jesus Christ. 31 teams passed on him through nearly 6 rounds of the draft, he played poorly in 2 of 4 preseason games against 3rd stringers, he got his butt handed to him against Georgia in his one big bowl appearance, he looked awful in Senior Bowl practices, he is a convicted felon, and he hasn't taken a single snap in a regular season game. Yet this is the guy that so many people are convinced is a better option than a guy who has a 88 QB rating through 12 games while playing behind a suspect WR corps and a line that could stop a bullrushing Judge Judy? Am I missing something? Is Colt giving out free BJs in D.C.?

He might be a fine QB one day, but I have seen NOTHING to make me think this guy deserves to start a regular season game.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=charlielyons;506771][quote=JLW428;506768]
Well I agree he has been too conservative as of late, but the NFL and college are 2 different things as you well know. Brennan has better WCO tools, such as a fast windup and release. Campbell can be a good quarterback,[B] i just dont think he suits this scheme well in the pros.[/quote][/B]Zorn seems to think otherwise. I would think he would know. :)

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;506774]I can't quite grasp why so many fellow Redskins fans are convinced that Colt Brennan is the second coming of Jesus Christ. 31 teams passed on him through nearly 6 rounds of the draft, he played poorly in 2 of 4 preseason games against 3rd stringers, he got his butt handed to him against Georgia in his one big bowl appearance, he looked awful in Senior Bowl practices, he is a convicted felon, and he hasn't taken a single snap in a regular season game. Yet this is the guy that so many people are convinced is a better option than a guy who has a 88 QB rating through 12 games while playing behind a suspect WR corps and a line that could stop a bullrushing Judge Judy? Am I missing something? Is Colt giving out free BJs in D.C.?

He might be a fine QB one day, but I have seen NOTHING to make me think this guy deserves to start a regular season game.[/quote]
Being a 6th round pick means nothing.....And I have seen nothing to make me think Campbell is the franchise QB everyone makes him out to be. Ask yourself this......Without Portis this year, would Campbell have close to that rating? Less we forget Sean Taylor had legal issues and turned his life around and into a role model.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

I think Campbell is doing a great job and I think Colt is a great QB. I live here in Hawaii and seen many UH games. Its Campbell's team and if the line isn't helping out Campbell, its not going to change for Brennan. Campbell gets big bucks and he should start until he's unable to lift the team to a win. The Redskins are doing really well, check the stats. They just aren't performing to the standards of the die hard fans.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=charlielyons;506776][B]Being a 6th round pick means nothing[/B].....And I have seen nothing to make me think Campbell is the franchise QB everyone makes him out to be. Ask yourself this......Without Portis this year, would Campbell have close to that rating? Less we forget Sean Taylor had legal issues and turned his life around and into a role model.[/quote]

It's oversimplifying to say it means nothing, it means his draft value simply wasn't that high. Not every QB drafted in the 6th round becomes the next Tom Brady. He was the exception to the rule.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

JC is fighting back a bit, I like this:

[QUOTE]Among fans' most repeated complaints about Campbell are that he does not show enough emotion on the sidelines and that he does not throw enough deep passes. Campbell brushes aside the criticism.

"People are really getting absurd with the stuff they're saying right now," Campbell said. "I'm the quarterback of this team, and I work hard to prepare myself and be a leader. You can't tell anything about how much someone cares about their job, about what's going on, from watching them on TV on the sideline. I'm not going to jump around and run around shouting at guys just to put on a show. That's not me.

"And throwing downfield -- people think I don't want to go downfield? I have a strong arm and I don't want to go downfield? I love to throw the ball downfield, but you just can't throw it downfield when there's nothing there. If you do that, then you're just asking for trouble. So, what, I'm just supposed to throw the ball up in double coverage? Then they're saying, 'Now, he just throws the ball up in double coverage.' It's a no-win situation. You just can't start throwing the ball up blindly and just throwing the ball up for grabs. That's why I'm saying, people are getting absurd." [/QUOTE]

It's true, but absurd is too nice of a word.

link: [url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/02/AR2008120203022_2.html?sid=ST2008120203254&s_pos=]Redskins' Campbell: 'I'm Getting All the Blame' for Skid - washingtonpost.com[/url]

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

I think there's a bit of a cause for concern right now, but giving up on Campbell is silly. The next two years will decide his fate, in my opinion. Right now he could take a turn towards being a very serviceable QB in this league -- or he could take a turn for obscurity. It all has to do with if Zorn feels he's the man or not, and if so -- how Campbell takes advantage of those opportunities.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

Great article and I kinda feel bad for JC. But he has to just deal with it. Imagine what Eli went through in NY. Maybe he should give him or McNabb a call.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

Another good read on the issue here too:

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/02/AR2008120203021.html?sub=AR"]Shortsightedness Causes Headaches[/URL]

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

It's funny, I have yet to hear a columnist, former or current Redskin, league observer, etc. call for Campbell to be benched. It's telling that the only people who are calling for his head are fans.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;506823]It's funny, I have yet to hear a columnist, former or current Redskin, league observer, etc. call for Campbell to be benched. It's telling that the only people who are calling for his head are fans.[/quote]

Yep, as usual the fans are irate, irrational, and completely out of their minds. What else is new.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=Mattyk72;506806]JC is fighting back a bit, I like this:



It's true, but absurd is too nice of a word.

link: [url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/02/AR2008120203022_2.html?sid=ST2008120203254&s_pos=]Redskins' Campbell: 'I'm Getting All the Blame' for Skid - washingtonpost.com[/url][/quote]

Why haven't we been using him to his talents?
Roll outs, after 3 seconds tuck and run and not just a run every 3 games.

Didn't we implement shotgun like 3 weeks into the season??

I've seen Zorn make Shitty play calls here and there but those happened in the games we lost. And in those games we lost it was FIRST, attributed only after JC made horrible decisions and the WR's dropping easy 1st down completions always on 3rd down plays.

I know he is being told to be a pocket passer from Zorn but that wasnt really even Zorn's playing style, furthermore, Zorn is just on the sideline sometimes JC has to be in control just as he is trusted to call audibles.

I'm just disgusted late in the season and the only way we score is on a trick play b/c every team is counting on us to run the ball we score a TD only b/c they overpursed a stretch play when it was really a reverse.

This can't be exceptable. And I hope we dump ARE in the offseason b/c special teams COULD have swung momentum in our favor.

If anyone thinks they are knowledgeable tell me what is the effectiveness of a "West Coast" if we sit in the pocket for 3-5 seconds and aren't moving in and out of the pocket with the flow of the play??????

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

I'm so f'ing sick of references to the WCO. Not picking a fight w/ anyone or pointing any fingers, just saying the f'ing concept has turned into the cliche from hell IMHO. And particularly in regard to our offense it seems like a misnomer. The offense looks very similar to years past [B]in terms of what is successful[/B]: when CP is ballin' we're hot, the passing game is at its best when Randle El sneaks in behind the LBs but in front of the safety for a medium range gain while Moss can break loose from double coverage. Some of the personnel has changed as last year we had Caldwell and father time catching more passes than Thomas/Kelly have, but ultimately the offense looks very similar to me. Am I missing something here?

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=The Goat;506826]I'm so f'ing sick of references to the WCO. Not picking a fight w/ anyone or pointing any fingers, just saying the f'ing concept has turned into the cliche from hell IMHO. And particularly in regard to our offense it seems like a misnomer. The offense looks very similar to years past [B]in terms of what is successful[/B]: when CP is ballin' we're hot, the passing game is at its best when Randle El sneaks in behind the LBs but in front of the safety for a medium range gain while Moss can break loose from double coverage. Some of the personnel has changed as last year we had Caldwell and father time catching more passes than Thomas/Kelly have, but ultimately the offense looks very similar to me. Am I missing something here?[/quote]


Your right dude, I only refer to the WCO to put it under the microscope. I can't identify it myself. It seems inexperience and lack of personal are preventing it from truly taking form.

But I think thats why Bugel was left to keep the run game going, its not broke.
So its that much more to bang our heads about to ask why can't the Pass game stop being so terrible?? Why is it so hard to create from one year to the next. And if that was the only real work implemented and this is our fruits of labor than, bleep bleep bleep bleep these Skins once again rip my heart out and leave a terrible taste for another 9 months of waiting.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=Mattyk72;506806]JC is fighting back a bit, I like this:



It's true, but absurd is too nice of a word.

link: [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/02/AR2008120203022_2.html?sid=ST2008120203254&s_pos="]Redskins' Campbell: 'I'm Getting All the Blame' for Skid - washingtonpost.com[/URL][/quote]


Let's see if it is absurd in Dec 09' and we are having the exact same debate if JC should be resigned. If all is well next season or if the Skins turn it around somehow to save this season then the JC issue will be muted, but if we get the same junky play from the offense the rest of the way and even through '09 JC is going to be toast. Snyder is not going to resign a guy for average to poor play for another 2-4 years. The excuses given for the crappy offensive production(especially points) is laughable in that we have always faced a depleted O line at many junctures in the last 10+ seasons, WR's with bad cases of the dropsies(Westbrook, Gardner come to mind), and banged up RB's( Allen, Davis, and now Portis). In short any QB shown the door in the post Gibbs I era faced the same garbage that JC has. The problem with the offense comes down to the players not acclamating or really going for Zorn's system or it is the guy in charge of executing the system on the field. Zorn needs to tweak the system to enhance the "weapons" at his disposal, but he also needs a guy that can execute it and win. The big W is the bottom line. Gus ran Norv's system fine, but couldn't get that many wins. Same thing with Johnson and Banks, but they couldn't win. Ramsey was just abused period and thrown to the wolves with Spurrier. Bottom line to me is Zorn's system doesn't seem to be all that complicated, and should be a helluva lot easier to get down than Saunders 700+ page monstrosity. Then again the WCO is sort of passe and probably not that hard for figuring out, so we do have a dilemna on our hands now don't we? There isn't a QB controversy yet, but if we do miss the wildcard you have to be a fool to think that the FO might start having some doubts start to creep in. And if '09 is a bust, it is going to be a lot easier to part ways with a QB on his last year of his contract than a coach and his system or more accurately bring in almost all new offensive personnel.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=The Goat;506826]I'm so f'ing sick of references to the WCO. Not picking a fight w/ anyone or pointing any fingers, just saying the f'ing concept has turned into the cliche from hell IMHO. And particularly in regard to our offense it seems like a misnomer. The offense looks very similar to years past [B]in terms of what is successful[/B]: when CP is ballin' we're hot, the passing game is at its best when Randle El sneaks in behind the LBs but in front of the safety for a medium range gain while Moss can break loose from double coverage. Some of the personnel has changed as last year we had Caldwell and father time catching more passes than Thomas/Kelly have, but ultimately the offense looks very similar to me. Am I missing something here?[/quote]

Great point. I think Zorn is taking his lumps now after a quick start (built on the back of Clinton Portis). We are seeing the impact of having a first time head coach and first time play caller with an inexperienced offensive coordinator. We'll see how experienced assistants can help a rookie head coach when we see Cam "Cam" Cameron this week in Baltimore. That team is doing much more on offense with less talent than the Redskins. At some point it becomes difficult to believe that it is just poor execution that is hurting the Redskins' offensive production.

Re: There's No Quarterback Controversy
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;506823]It's funny, I have yet to hear a columnist, former or current Redskin, league observer, etc. call for Campbell to be benched. It's telling that the only people who are calling for his head are fans.[/quote]
campbell gets a media pass, just like Michael Vick, Donavan McNabb....no offense to anyone but black quarterbacks get a pass cause everyone wants to see one be sucessful.