Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Paintrain;516643]Yeah, maybe a comp pick at the end of the 4th round. Hmm, 2nd round pick now, end of the 4th round pick next year. You decide.[/quote]

but you'd get another year of service right? plus I'm not sure we'd get a 2nd now...

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

Trading Rogers would be one of the biggest disappointments in recent years. Yeah, the guy drops some picks, but hes one of the few players on our team in a position to even make a play. Very good starting CBs don't roll around every day. If you replace him with Nmandi, fine. But I still think we should keep him around and show Springs the door.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

Here's a question about Rogers-What playoff team or team in the division would Rogers be a starting CB for and over whom?

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=GTripp0012;516653]And I think people not fearing throwing at Rogers is very key to DeAngelo Hall's success. If you'll remember, the fact that QBs really feared Nnamdi Asomugha is how Hall's lack of cover skills first got exploited. If QBs want to throw 8 passes a game at Rogers, Hall looks much, much better on the other side.[/quote]


That IS true.. as it would be for ANY 2nd CB we put over there... but I specifically remember the Eagles throwing at DHall all day long 2 weeks ago.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=GTripp0012;516648]For the record, I'm not saying whether or not a player can be an elite cornerback if teams do not fear throwing at him, which is definately the case with Rogers' team leading 100+ targets. But his coverage numbers are as good as ANYONE in the league. The very best of the best.

So regardless of whether not QBs fear him, no one can argue that we aren't a better defense when QBs are foolishly throwing at him.

I don't know whether or not he'll ever be able to become a turnover machine. I do know that our pass defense without him is pretty awful. Way closer to 2006 than is comfortable.

It's a flat out insane idea that we'd get a deal worthy of trading Carlos Rogers. He's 26.[/quote]


I actually agree!! (Unbelievable right?.. haha)

Except I'll say that if Asomugha is the same price as Rogers wants to extend... other than that... you have to keep him. Again, he most likely will be a RESTRICTED FA next year, why trade him? Unless there REALLY is something there between him and Blache. I like a confident corner, but he came across defiant, and overly cocky in some of those comments... I wonder if he has rubbed Blache the wrong way for too long.

And if Jerry Gray goes (he's the one Rogers is tight with), then I could possibly see something happening.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Paintrain;516727]Here's a question about Rogers-What playoff team or team in the division would Rogers be a starting CB for and over whom?[/quote]


Atlanta, Miami, and San Diego are all in the playoffs, and they rank #21, #25, and #31 against the pass respectively.

The Chargers would snatch him up in a heartbeat. I don't know about our division, but I doubt that we would trade him anywhere in the NFC East.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Defensewins;516596]Not talking much value here.
Give up on a young, talented CB in the prime of his career.....for a 3rd round pick? I would not do it. [/quote]

Oh I definitely agree not to

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Paintrain;516727]Here's a question about Rogers-What playoff team or team in the division would Rogers be a starting CB for and over whom?[/quote]

It is a silly question because it is 100% subjective and you clearly don't like Carlos Rogers so your answer will be that he would not start for any team, but here are the depth charts for corners on the division/playoff teams.

Atlanta: so I'd take him over anyone Atlanta has.
[I][B]LCB:[/B][/I][I]Domonique Foxworth[/I] [I]
Chevis Jackson - r[/I] [I]
Brent Grimes[/I] [I][B]
RCB:[/B][/I][I]Chris Houston[/I] [I]
David Irons (IR)[/I]

Arizona: Ditto on Arizona
[B]LCB:[/B]Roderick Hood
Michael Adams
[B]RCB:[/B]D. Rodgers-Cro - r
Eric Green

Baltimore: Who would you take over Rogers from the vaunted Ravens defense? The Raiders traded Fabian Washington for a 4th round pick by the way.
[B]LCB:[/B]Fab. Washington - inj
Corey Ivy
Chris McAlister (IR)
[B]RCB:[/B]Samari Rolle - inj
Frank Walker

Carolina: Gamble is a good player. I guess Lucas is as well, though I haven't watched either of them play a whole lot. And Carolina wouldn't trade a 2004 1st round pick (Gamble) and instead gave him an extension this November.
[B]LCB:[/B]Chris Gamble
Richard Marshall
[B]RCB:[/B]Ken Lucas
Dante Wesley

Dallas: Who would you take other than Newman?
[B]LCB:[/B]Ter. Newman
Mike Jenkins - r
Alan Ball
[B]RCB:[/B]Anthony Henry
Adam Jones - inj
Orl. Scandrick
Keith Davis - r

Indy: Um, would you take Marlin Jackson? (who was drafted after Rogers in 2005)
[B]LCB:[/B]Kelvin Hayden
Dante Hughes
[B]RCB:[/B]Tim Jennings
Keiwan Ratliff
Mar. Jackson (IR)
Nick Graham (IR)

Miami: I'm starting to agree with Rogers that he could start for any of these playoff teams. But let's definitely trade him for a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Cornerbacks are a dime a dozen.
[B]LCB:[/B]Will Allen
Michael Lehan
[B]RCB:[/B]Andre' Goodman
Nathan Jones

Minnesota: Winfield ... he also makes a ton of cash and is five years older than Rogers.
[B]LCB:[/B]Antoine Winfield
Marcus McCauley
[B]RCB:[/B]Cedric Griffin
Benny Sapp
Char. Gordon (IR)

New England: I'll throw them in since they were 11-5
[B]LCB:[/B]Jonathan Wilhite - r
Deltha O'Neal
[B]RCB:[/B]Ellis Hobbs - inj
Mike Richardson
Jas. Webster (IR)
Ter. Wheatley (IR)

New York: I'm sure the Giants wouldn't have room for Rogers on their team (that's sarcasm). Terrell Thomas was also a second round pick in 2008. Would you trade Carlos Rogers for him?
[B]LCB:[/B]Aaron Ross - inj
Kevin Dockery
Terrell Thomas - r
[B]RCB:[/B]Corey Webster
R.W. McQuarters
Sam Madison

Philadelphia: They are deep (and well paid) at Corner. But you wouldn't take Rogers over Sheldon Brown? The Eagles also couldn't get the picks they wanted for Lito Sheppard (a then 26 year old Pro Bowl corner) ... would teams be willing to give the Redskins as much or more for Rogers than they were willing to give for Sheppard? So are we even talking about getting a 2nd back in return for a young talented corner?
[B]LCB:[/B]Asante Samuel
Lito Sheppard
[B]RCB:[/B]Sheldon Brown
Joselio Hanson

Pittsburgh:
[B]LCB:[/B]Ike Taylor
Anthony Madison
[B]RCB:[/B]Bry. McFadden - inj
Deshea Townsend - inj
William Gay

San Diego: They had two first round picks at Corner and then spent another first rounder on Cason in 2008. Think corners are important?
[B]LCB:[/B]Quentin Jammer
Antonie Cason - r
[B]RCB:[/B]Ant. Cromartie
DeJuan Tribble - r

Tennessee: I had no idea Tyrone Poole was still in the NFL. He was drafted the same year that the Redskins took Michael Westbrook! Anyway, give me Rogers over Nick Harper.
[B]LCB:[/B]Nick Harper
Chris Carr
[B]RCB:[/B]Cort. Finnegan
Tyrone Poole

Well, I think the answer to your question is obvious, but as I said at the outset it is subjective so I guess you can disagree. If Rogers is actually on the block I'm going to have to take a break from the Redskins for a few weeks at least. It truly boggles the mind. I can understand how fans could get down on a guy for dropping some picks, but the coaches theoretically break down the tape. How do they not see that Rogers is a player?

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

This IS pretty much insane. Before the Hall acquisition, it seemed to me that Rogers played quite well. In fact, I thought it was pretty much an agreed thing that he was playing better than ever.

Yes, he drops picks. Yes, that sucks. But his coverage skills are QUITE good. I'd be very upset were he to leave the team in ANY manner. If we were able to re-sign him to a not-so-crazy-money deal, I'd take that OVER a 2nd round pick (which I don't even think we'd be able to get, for the record).

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=WestCoastSkinsFan;516764]This IS pretty much insane. Before the Hall acquisition, it seemed to me that Rogers played quite well. In fact, I thought it was pretty much an agreed thing that he was playing better than ever.

Yes, he drops picks. Yes, that sucks. But his coverage skills are QUITE good. I'd be very upset were he to leave the team in ANY manner. If we were able to re-sign him to a not-so-crazy-money deal, I'd take that OVER a 2nd round pick (which I don't even think we'd be able to get, for the record).[/quote]

Agreed and if it came to a choice between Rogers and Hall, I say keep Rogers.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

we dont need to be trading lOs

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;516755]It is a silly question because it is 100% subjective and you clearly don't like Carlos Rogers so your answer will be that he would not start for any team, but here are the depth charts for corners on the division/playoff teams.

Atlanta: so I'd take him over anyone Atlanta has.
[I][B]LCB:[/B][/I][I]Domonique Foxworth[/I] [I]
Chevis Jackson - r[/I] [I]
Brent Grimes[/I] [I][B]
RCB:[/B][/I][I]Chris Houston[/I] [I]
David Irons (IR)[/I]

Arizona: Ditto on Arizona
[B]LCB:[/B]Roderick Hood
Michael Adams
[B]RCB:[/B]D. Rodgers-Cro - r
Eric Green

Baltimore: Who would you take over Rogers from the vaunted Ravens defense? The Raiders traded Fabian Washington for a 4th round pick by the way.
[B]LCB:[/B]Fab. Washington - inj
Corey Ivy
Chris McAlister (IR)
[B]RCB:[/B]Samari Rolle - inj
Frank Walker

Carolina: Gamble is a good player. I guess Lucas is as well, though I haven't watched either of them play a whole lot. And Carolina wouldn't trade a 2004 1st round pick (Gamble) and instead gave him an extension this November.
[B]LCB:[/B]Chris Gamble
Richard Marshall
[B]RCB:[/B]Ken Lucas
Dante Wesley

Dallas: Who would you take other than Newman?
[B]LCB:[/B]Ter. Newman
Mike Jenkins - r
Alan Ball
[B]RCB:[/B]Anthony Henry
Adam Jones - inj
Orl. Scandrick
Keith Davis - r

Indy: Um, would you take Marlin Jackson? (who was drafted after Rogers in 2005)
[B]LCB:[/B]Kelvin Hayden
Dante Hughes
[B]RCB:[/B]Tim Jennings
Keiwan Ratliff
Mar. Jackson (IR)
Nick Graham (IR)

Miami: I'm starting to agree with Rogers that he could start for any of these playoff teams. But let's definitely trade him for a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Cornerbacks are a dime a dozen.
[B]LCB:[/B]Will Allen
Michael Lehan
[B]RCB:[/B]Andre' Goodman
Nathan Jones

Minnesota: Winfield ... he also makes a ton of cash and is five years older than Rogers.
[B]LCB:[/B]Antoine Winfield
Marcus McCauley
[B]RCB:[/B]Cedric Griffin
Benny Sapp
Char. Gordon (IR)

New England: I'll throw them in since they were 11-5
[B]LCB:[/B]Jonathan Wilhite - r
Deltha O'Neal
[B]RCB:[/B]Ellis Hobbs - inj
Mike Richardson
Jas. Webster (IR)
Ter. Wheatley (IR)

New York: I'm sure the Giants wouldn't have room for Rogers on their team (that's sarcasm). Terrell Thomas was also a second round pick in 2008. Would you trade Carlos Rogers for him?
[B]LCB:[/B]Aaron Ross - inj
Kevin Dockery
Terrell Thomas - r
[B]RCB:[/B]Corey Webster
R.W. McQuarters
Sam Madison

Philadelphia: They are deep (and well paid) at Corner. But you wouldn't take Rogers over Sheldon Brown? The Eagles also couldn't get the picks they wanted for Lito Sheppard (a then 26 year old Pro Bowl corner) ... would teams be willing to give the Redskins as much or more for Rogers than they were willing to give for Sheppard? So are we even talking about getting a 2nd back in return for a young talented corner?
[B]LCB:[/B]Asante Samuel
Lito Sheppard
[B]RCB:[/B]Sheldon Brown
Joselio Hanson

Pittsburgh:
[B]LCB:[/B]Ike Taylor
Anthony Madison
[B]RCB:[/B]Bry. McFadden - inj
Deshea Townsend - inj
William Gay

San Diego: They had two first round picks at Corner and then spent another first rounder on Cason in 2008. Think corners are important?
[B]LCB:[/B]Quentin Jammer
Antonie Cason - r
[B]RCB:[/B]Ant. Cromartie
DeJuan Tribble - r

Tennessee: I had no idea Tyrone Poole was still in the NFL. He was drafted the same year that the Redskins took Michael Westbrook! Anyway, give me Rogers over Nick Harper.
[B]LCB:[/B]Nick Harper
Chris Carr
[B]RCB:[/B]Cort. Finnegan
Tyrone Poole

Well, I think the answer to your question is obvious, but as I said at the outset it is subjective so I guess you can disagree. If Rogers is actually on the block I'm going to have to take a break from the Redskins for a few weeks at least. It truly boggles the mind. I can understand how fans could get down on a guy for dropping some picks, but the coaches theoretically break down the tape. How do they not see that Rogers is a player/?[/quote]

Thanks for the detail. I wasn't going to take the time to research all of them, but you made a few good points. He would be a starter for some of those teams. You're right, I've never been a Rogers fan and think we can do better than him on the free agent market if we can get good value in a trade. The coaches had to have been seeing something for his playing time to drop to nil down the stretch.

Despite him having the worst ball skills I've ever seen from a position player, I wouldn't hate it if he accepted a reasonable deal and we had Hall & Rogers for the next 5 years. I don't think he's going to be signable long term because he thinks he's much better than he is, that's the biggest reason I'd advocate the trade.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

I think we should also remember Rogers spent most of his time rehabbing, not practicing, until the season started.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

I still think all this sounds like JLC trying too hard to get a scoop and putting two and two toghter and coming up with eight . He is creating the story ... again as he has in the past with rumors Portis would be traded last year and Bly would be coming to Washington .

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/12/2008_positional_review_-_corne.html?wprss=redskinsinsider]Redskins by Position: The Cornerbacks - Redskins Insider[/url]


I think what is interesting is Rogers signed a 7 year rookie contract . I am pretty sure some of those years will be voidable but I am not sure, the point is which I think JLC is missing is they have to make a decision on Hall NOW, this year .

I think they will offer Hall a contract having been quite pleased with his production .

Rogers can wait.... At least to the end of 2009 .

Springs has a huge cap number ... can he play effectivly with Hall and Rogers ...We know what we have with Rogers and Springs bit how does he play with Hall... how does the team find out? Play them together .

If they do want Springs back he has to reduce his cap hit .

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

I wouldn't let him go. Staying younger is the key. If anything I'd take a so-so player that can play than a good player that can't (Springs). How many years does Springs have left in him anyway. He's gone for most of the season with one injury or another?
I don't like seeing a draft pick go that has the room to get better in favor of an older guy that isn't your future. Hall is good but there are reasons that Atlanta and Oakland lets him go and that is he can't cover that well. Can he work in Washington, perhaps? He is young but I wouldn't spend too much to keep him. I think Smoot is heading the same way as Springs. All of these guys are good and can use a little more improvement. Springs is the best out of all of them but can't stay out there long enough to make an impact on the season. I'd like to move Springs up to safety and extend his career. If not then we really haven't lost anything.
I wouldn't be happy with letting Carlos Rogers go. After all of those dropped interceptions, I wouldn't cry either.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

If Rogers in in position to drop picks then he must be doing something right. Give him time!

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

For anyone to say that DeAngelo Hall is not a good CB is crazy to me. He really is a good corner. I know people were locked in on the completion percentage thing when he was with Oakland this season, but look at the other numbers compared to what we have:

2008 - 73 tackles, 5 INTs, & 21 Pass Deflections

* He had more pass deflections (8) in 7 games with us than Springs & Smoot had all season (7 each).
* 3rd most pass deflections in the NFL this season (21)... by the way, guess who led the league... lol ... yup ... CARLOS ROGERS (24).

2007 - 70 tackles, 5 INTs, & 16 PDs
2006 - 58 tackles, 4 INTs, & 16 PDs
2005 - 65 tackles, 6 INTs, & 10 PDs

Now look at our CBs numbers over the past 4 years and you WON'T see 20 pass deflections, over 4 INTs, 70 tackles, etc...

Also keep in mind that the guy is only 25 years-old ... 25!! He's only going to mature. And he grew up a die hard Redskins fan that's why he signed with us for league minimum when the Patriots & Giants were after him.

I am 100% behind resigning him. An like I said before, Rogers is a moot point as he is locked in through 2009, so there is no need to get rid of him other than Blache and him REALLY having issues. These 2 should be the starting corners next year... as BOTH are quality NFL starting CBs.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

Yeah I can dig that! Y'all are missing my point though. Overall I think that the secondary is good. They're not great, but they could be with more help from the D-line. What my point is that if the FO wants to trim some fat than it should be Springs or Smoot. I'd like to keep Carlos and Hall because they're younger, have room for growth, and can play for a full season. I'd like to see them cover a little better but if the D-line gives the other quarterback forever to throw the ball then it's hard to get better coverage than what we've gotten.
If you do get rid of any of these players the focus should be getting draft picks and younger healthier players. I'd like to see them all back next year if you get down to it. If Carlos wants to cry then cut him. Let's not make excuses for any of them. They need to earn their postition. If Rogers was a starter like he thinks he is then he would've been the starter.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;517077]Yeah I can dig that! Y'all are missing my point though. Overall I think that the secondary is good. They're not great, but they could be with more help from the D-line. What my point is that if the FO wants to trim some fat than it should be Springs or Smoot. I'd like to keep Carlos and Hall because they're younger, have room for growth, and can play for a full season. I'd like to see them cover a little better but if the D-line gives the other quarterback forever to throw the ball then it's hard to get better coverage than what we've gotten.
If you do get rid of any of these players the focus should be getting draft picks and younger healthier players. I'd like to see them all back next year if you get down to it. If Carlos wants to cry then cut him. Let's not make excuses for any of them. They need to earn their postition. If Rogers was a starter like he thinks he is then he would've been the starter.[/quote]

Smoots cap hit if we cut him would be 4million, If he comes back it would only be 2.65 million.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

Like I said. I want them all back. I think because of the situation that you just outlined we should keep all of them. Smoot wasn't bad last year. None of them really were. The point is if you want to get rid of someone then make it the person who has less of a NFL future. I forget which one of these guys owns a couple or Wafle-Houses? I think Smoot. If we do get rid of Rogers for any reason we should get something good for him, right? Tell me what y'all think? Would it be feasible to get some 6th or 7th round picks for him? How about picks for next year? What do y'all think we could get for him?

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

I really don't have a problem with Rogers. No he can't catch a cold but he really doesn't need to. As long as he understands he is only going to take on the second or third WR then he will be fine. All he has to do is bat the ball away or rush the QB once in a while. Hall should be relegated to covering the #1 WR position. He has the speed and agility to cover them and perhaps steal a ball once and a while. When Rogers is blitzing have a safety cover over the top.

I will say again if we had a half decent pass rush our problems would be solved at CB. Any decent pass rush would make the QB throw the ball away or throw half a$$. If the QB does not have all day to throw the ball and wait for his WR's to get open then our CB look great. Simply put again....look at our offense this season. Other teams had great pass rushes and we had a hard time picking them up and they new it. During the second half of the yr JC faced more rushes and had to throw away or get sacked. Occassionaly he was able to run for the 1st down.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=SBXVII;517093]I really don't have a problem with Rogers. No he can't catch a cold but he really doesn't need to. As long as he understands he is only going to take on the second or third WR then he will be fine. All he has to do is bat the ball away or rush the QB once in a while. Hall should be relegated to covering the #1 WR position. He has the speed and agility to cover them and perhaps steal a ball once and a while. When Rogers is blitzing have a safety cover over the top. [/quote]

Yeah...I don't mind Rogers.

From what I remember he was selected by GWilliams to be a physical corner as was needed in his defensive scheme. Well he has the physical part down pat. The hit he put on TO during that quick post at FedEx this year proved that. He can make all the physical hits that a physical corner needs to do.

Now can he catch a football...HELL NO!...but there is a give and take when you deal with athlete's that don't have supernatural abilities to do both.

BTW...the cowboys have a rookie CB named Mike Jenkins. During Week 9 against the giants, Brandon Jacobs did a sweep to his side. Jenkins had a full shot at Jacobs and side stepped himself out of the play so he didn't have to do so. He looked back at his teammates to make the tackle and Jacobs ran another 10 yards for a TD.

Now...Mike Jenkins can probably catch footballs all day long but he sure is hell didn't want to catch Jacob's down low for an attempted tackle. Just because Los has a glaring weakness doesn't mean he doesn't have strengths. As long as his strengths fits into our defensive scheme then I'm all for him.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;517109]Yeah...I don't mind Rogers.

From what I remember he was selected by GWilliams to be a physical corner as was needed in his defensive scheme. Well he has the physical part down pat. The hit he put on TO during that quick post at FedEx this year proved that. He can make all the physical hits that a physical corner needs to do.

Now can he catch a football...HELL NO!...but there is a give and take when you deal with athlete's that don't have supernatural abilities to do both.

BTW...the cowboys have a rookie CB named Mike Jenkins. During Week 9 against the giants, Brandon Jacobs did a sweep to his side. Jenkins had a full shot at Jacobs and side stepped himself out of the play so he didn't have to do so. He looked back at his teammates to make the tackle and Jacobs ran another 10 yards for a TD.

Now...Mike Jenkins can probably catch footballs all day long but he sure is hell didn't want to catch Jacob's down low for an attempted tackle. Just because Los has a glaring weakness doesn't mean he doesn't have strengths. As long as his strengths fits into our defensive scheme then I'm all for him.[/quote]

I'm with you on that. None of our CB's have been afraid to hit this year.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

Rogers was a top 10 pick and is just entering his prime..If we traded him for anything less than a 1st rounder we'd be morons.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;517072]For anyone to say that DeAngelo Hall is not a good CB is crazy to me. He really is a good corner. [b] I know people were locked in on the completion percentage thing when he was with Oakland this season, but look at the other numbers compared to what we have:[/b]

2008 - 73 tackles, 5 INTs, & 21 Pass Deflections

* He had more pass deflections (8) in 7 games with us than Springs & Smoot had all season (7 each).
* 3rd most pass deflections in the NFL this season (21)... by the way, guess who led the league... lol ... yup ... CARLOS ROGERS (24).

2007 - 70 tackles, 5 INTs, & 16 PDs
2006 - 58 tackles, 4 INTs, & 16 PDs
2005 - 65 tackles, 6 INTs, & 10 PDs

Now look at our CBs numbers over the past 4 years and you WON'T see 20 pass deflections, over 4 INTs, 70 tackles, etc...

Also keep in mind that the guy is only 25 years-old ... 25!! He's only going to mature. And he grew up a die hard Redskins fan that's why he signed with us for league minimum when the Patriots & Giants were after him.

I am 100% behind resigning him. An like I said before, Rogers is a moot point as he is locked in through 2009, so there is no need to get rid of him other than Blache and him REALLY having issues. These 2 should be the starting corners next year... as BOTH are quality NFL starting CBs.[/quote]

I don't think that anyone would question Hall's ball skills, the problem with him is his struggles in coverage and high completion percentage against. You err in making it sound like his high completion percentage against was an aberration that came out of the blue when he went to Oakland. That is incorrect. Hall has always struggled in completion percentage and yards allowed per completion. Football Outsiders has compiled these metrics, though I do not have the handy. If you want to choose between Hall and Rogers, the latter is the better coverage cornerback by a pretty fair margin. If Hall gets big money and Rogers is either traded or allowed to walk after his contract is up (which wouldn't really make sense since the Redskins could give him a high tender and get compensation if he were an RFA after 2009) then that is a mistake. Sure, it would be fine to have both as you say, but if Hall gets $45-50 million and $12-15 million to sign then there will not be money for Rogers so you are making a choice between the two.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=redskins4lif;516242]I think they should bring all 4 of the corners back next year if they can and start hall and rogers and have springs rotate with horton at saftey and some corner next year if he would do that[/quote] What he said.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;517147]I don't think that anyone would question Hall's ball skills, the problem with him is his struggles in coverage and high completion percentage against. You err in making it sound like his high completion percentage against was an aberration that came out of the blue when he went to Oakland. That is incorrect. Hall has always struggled in completion percentage and yards allowed per completion. Football Outsiders has compiled these metrics, though I do not have the handy. If you want to choose between Hall and Rogers, the latter is the better coverage cornerback by a pretty fair margin. If Hall gets big money and Rogers is either traded or allowed to walk after his contract is up (which wouldn't really make sense since the Redskins could give him a high tender and get compensation if he were an RFA after 2009) then that is a mistake. Sure, it would be fine to have both as you say, but if Hall gets $45-50 million and $12-15 million to sign then there will not be money for Rogers so you are making a choice between the two.[/quote]Fwiw, I have Hall at 25 targets and a 67% completion allowed, for about 6.7 yards (roughly league average) per attempt. That's without the Philly game, so his numbers are probably even better than that. Ironically, his targets and YPA are exactly equal to Springs this year.

It makes some sense, since they are both the high % corners who make picks when given opportunities and relies on closing speed and tackle ability to prevent the first down (although Springs is a significantly better tackler than Hall).

I would say, based on the evidence, that Hall is a better investment going forward than Springs. But the fact that Rogers is even in discussion is some real unnecessary pot stirring by La Canfora at best, and downright embarrassing at worst. I just don't see it as an either or. We have to make a decision on Hall AND Springs this off-season. We don't have to do anything with Rogers until we decide what to do with the other two.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

i agree. and they ought to give Smoot the first seat on a plane ride out of town

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

This seems kind of ridiculous. Of course the Redskins will do their due diligence and shop Rogers around quietly before they really need to make a decision on his long-term future with the Redskins. They'll probably do the same with Campbell. It's pretty standard practice. Will they actually let him go? I suppose it's possible especially with Hall probably signing a nice contract with us and Springs possibly staying but that makes Rogers no more expendable. Because after those three who do you have? Smoot is ok as a dime db, Tryon is fine on special teams but a ways away from being a regular DB on the field, and Westbrook can't even get on the active roster

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

Redskins could use Rogers as bargaining chip
By Eric Edholm
Jan. 9, 2009

The Redskins are back in a familiar position. A year after having an unusual offseason with almost no free-agent activity and 10 draft picks, the team will be forced to trim some aged and expensive talent and currently has only four draft picks with which to work. The Redskins have first-, third-, fifth- and sixth-round picks, having traded away their second-, fourth- and seventh-round picks in separate deals for Jason Taylor, Pete Kendall and Erasmus James. The team wants to add picks and might have the depth at cornerback to make a trade. The most likely to go? Believe it or not, Carlos Rogers. Through the first part of the season, Rogers was playing at a Pro Bowl level, but he fell off and eventually was demoted to playing nine defensive snaps in the loss to the Bengals. The club would like to work out a long-term deal with free-agent-to-be DeAngelo Hall, and not Rogers — whose deal has one year remaining — and could use him as trade bait. One estimated guess at Rogers’ value: a [B]second-round pick[/B], which would offset the draft-pick shortage somewhat.

So do you think that we would trade him for a second rounder?

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

If we can get a 2nd for Rogers I say take that deal and run. I'm just not sure there will be a taker for that high of a pick but we'll see.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

what sense does it make to trade Rogers? he is young, and is a pretty damn good corner. there is no guarantee what you get when you draft someone. with Rogers, you already know what you have

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=Mattyk72;519534]If we can get a 2nd for Rogers I say take that deal and run. I'm just not sure there will be a taker for that high of a pick but we'll see.[/quote]If Rogers was 30, and Moss was 26, I'd probably agree with you, but I think we need a few more years of Rogers, while Moss probably has already seen his best years.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=dmek25;519535]what sense does it make to trade Rogers? he is young, and is a pretty damn good corner. there is no guarantee what you get when you draft someone. with Rogers, you already know what you have[/quote]
none
creating a hole just to fill a hole

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

Do you think we are going to resign him next year when his contract is up? We will most likely let him walk. So we mite as well trade him this year so we can try to get some value out of him.


If we were going to resign him, then id be all for it. But, i highly doubt we are so we gotta get value for him.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

[quote=WaldSkins;519549]Do you think we are going to resign him next year when his contract is up? We will most likely let him walk. So we mite as well trade him this year so we can try to get some value out of him.


If we were going to resign him, then id be all for it. But, i highly doubt we are so we gotta get value for him.[/quote]

From what I've been r[FONT="Arial"][/FONT]eading he won't walk but run when his contracts up. He clearly stated he is a starter and many teams would give there right arm for him.

Really will hate to see him go if he does

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

I would have mixed feelings to see Rogers go. He really picked up his play this year and finally seemed to be "getting it". On the other hand he still has hands of stone and that's a pretty significant issue. His inability to create game changing turnovers is whats holding him back from being an elite corner.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

^^^ you're right about that Matty but his stregnth is his ability to cover big name recievers. But I see your point.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

Id be ok with Rogers starting opposite of Hall for the next 5-6 years. With an improved D-line this defense could become better.

Re: JLC: Rogers, Possibly on the Way Out
 

I'd also say a high second for CR is a different ballgame than a mid or low second. But what team picking in the first ten picks of the draft is looking for a Carlos Rogers like player to complete their roster?

There's just no way we get a deal worth trading him.

I also happen to think we're overblowing the hands thing. He's dropped two real game changing plays in his career: that one in the 2005 divisional round, and the one in the Pittsburgh game this year, but he's got 3 INT in 23 games since 2007, and one of those picks went to the house. All three of them came with considerable return yards.

So yeah, he's definately going to drop some INTs in the future, but for a guy who plays defense for a reason, I think he catches an acceptable amount.