Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;522461]I think this was pretty much a consensus by the sports media, even those outlets that are not controlled by Snyder. Yes, Snyder may have some influence, but many saw his change of title (promotion?) to Exec VP as a sign that he would be the one in charge. But Snyder is not at the level of Jerry Jones, meddling in everything, nor do I think he's at the level of getting involved as he was prior to Gibbs coming to town.[/quote]

You may be right, but we're both guessing anyway. We don't know that he doesn't actually 'meddle' more than Jones, cause DS doesn't speak to the media, whereas JJ talks about everything.

My point is not to accuse him of meddling, though that shoe has seemed to fit in the past, rather I think it's naive to think that his influence over Vinny has to come through on virtually all major decisions. He's VC's boss & friend, so e.g., it's logical that drafting 2 wr's & a te in the 2nd rnd. appears to be influenced by DS, given his history of wanting a star wr. Not to mention the reported trade offer for ocho cinco. I can't believe that's solely Vinny making that decision.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

off the subject but with the Ravens Ed Reed. And the Eagles Samuels and Dawkins. I can't help but wonder how much better we would have been had we still had S.Taylor. I know one man can't so it all but a guy like that can be a game changer. I know it's obvious but worth stating. We lost our intiminator.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=44ever;522473]off the subject but with the Ravens Ed Reed. And the Eagles Samuels and Dawkins. I can't help but wonder how much better we would have been had we still had S.Taylor. I know one man can't so it all but a guy like that can be a game changer. I know it's obvious but worth stating. We lost our intiminator.[/quote]
ST played D and our problem this year was O.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=44ever;522473]off the subject but with the Ravens Ed Reed. And the Eagles Samuels and Dawkins. I can't help but wonder how much better we would have been had we still had S.Taylor. I know one man can't so it all but a guy like that can be a game changer. I know it's obvious but worth stating. We lost our intiminator.[/quote]

ST would have made a HUGE difference. He was our best playmaker on "D".

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

Just having Sean Taylor would have allowed our other bomb playmaker (Landry) to play his natural song safety position and blow some people up.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=53Fan;522478]ST would have made a HUGE difference. He was our best playmaker on "D".[/quote]


Yes, and if he were here, he would consume opponents with fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightening from his arse.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=Angry;522488]Yes, and if he were here, he would consume opponents with fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightening from his arse.[/quote]

"Ay, I AM William Wallace"

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=firstdown;522477]ST played D and our problem this year was O.[/quote]

I realize that.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=FRPLG;522489]"Ay, I AM William Wallace"[/quote]


The good Lord says he can get me out of this mess, but He's pretty sure...you're f***ed.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=53Fan;522478]ST would have made a HUGE difference. He was our best playmaker on "D".[/quote]

thanks 53. The point I was trying to make was we had a elite D in the making with him which would put a little less pressure on O. So FO was on the right track in some ways that we are not considering. He was a huge loss. Obviously

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

I don't know if we really have an "elite" D. Though this is probably more a matter of perception. My perception is that we were more of a very good D, who's numbers might have been better because our offense didn't really create a sense of urgency from our opponents.

To me though the elite D's this year belonged to the Titans, Steelers, and Ravens. Defenses that not only stopped people but destroyed them. Our D was more of a "stop you" kind of defense, which isn't exactly a bad thing, but it's obvious that we're not the type of team that can win 10 or 11 games with our D. We need at least a top 15 offense to supplement them, which is pretty good when you think about it, but teams like those I mentioned above were able to get over 10 wins with offenses ranked 21 (Ten), 22 (Pit), and 18 (Bal). We were 19th in total offense for anyone who wants to know.

Side Note: 2,400th post FTW

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

The friendship between Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato is sooooo overblown, VC was actually probably better friends with Gerald Snyder than with Cerrato.

And Snyder's "meddling" in team affairs is overblown as well, especially in relation to other owners' "meddling" with their teams.

But ultimately it doesn't matter. Ultimately, VC just has to be removed from any football-related decision making. Not so much because of what he has and hasn't accomplished, but because fans just don't believe anything but what they decided to believe a long time ago.

As for Sean Taylor, we miss him big time on the field! Big time! Not to mention the fact that were he alive we probably would have spent the picks on Moore and/or Horton elsewhere, perhaps the line.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;522500]The friendship between Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato is sooooo overblown, VC was actually probably better friends with Gerald Snyder than with Cerrato.

And Snyder's "meddling" in team affairs is overblown as well, especially in relation to other owners' "meddling" with their teams.

But ultimately it doesn't matter. Ultimately, VC just has to be removed from any football-related decision making. Not so much because of what he has and hasn't accomplished, but because fans just don't believe anything but what they decided to believe a long time ago.

As for Sean Taylor, we miss him big time on the field! Big time! Not to mention the fact that were he alive we probably would have spent the picks on Moore and/or Horton elsewhere, perhaps the line.[/quote]

We could change GM's and things would be dandy for a short time, but I really think that over time people would only go back to blaming Snyder for "meddling" and they wouldn't believe that the GM is truly calling the shots.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;522500]The friendship between Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato is sooooo overblown, VC was actually probably better friends with Gerald Snyder than with Cerrato.

And Snyder's "meddling" in team affairs is overblown as well, especially in relation to other owners' "meddling" with their teams.

But ultimately it doesn't matter. Ultimately, VC just has to be removed from any football-related decision making. Not so much because of what he has and hasn't accomplished, but because fans just don't believe anything but what they decided to believe a long time ago.

As for Sean Taylor, we miss him big time on the field! Big time! Not to mention the fact that were he alive [B]we probably would have spent the picks on Moore and/or Horton elsewhere, perhaps the line[/B].[/quote]

That is a pretty good analysis. I never thought about that aspect of losing him.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;522510]We could change GM's and things would be dandy for a short time, but I really think that over time people would only go back to blaming Snyder for "meddling" and they wouldn't believe that the GM is truly calling the shots.[/quote]

Until we win a Superbowl the blame will always go right here. I am more pumped to win a SB because then I can tell all haters to shut it. I hope it happens sometime soon.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=celts32;522241]Our father who art in heaven...[/quote]

lol 2 funny

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;522500]



As for Sean Taylor, we miss him big time on the field! Big time! Not to mention the fact that were he alive we probably would have spent the picks on Moore and/or Horton elsewhere, perhaps the line.[/quote]

That's what I meant when I said our FO was on the right track in ways we are not considering.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;522500]The friendship between Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato is sooooo overblown, VC was actually probably better friends with Gerald Snyder than with Cerrato.

And Snyder's "meddling" in team affairs is overblown as well, especially in relation to other owners' "meddling" with their teams.

But ultimately it doesn't matter. Ultimately, VC just has to be removed from any football-related decision making. Not so much because of what he has and hasn't accomplished, but because fans just don't believe anything but what they decided to believe a long time ago.

As for Sean Taylor, we miss him big time on the field! Big time! Not to mention the fact that were he alive we probably would have spent the picks on Moore and/or Horton elsewhere, perhaps the line.[/quote]

That doesn't really make sense though. What GM has a close relationship with the owners father? To me the fact that he knows the father that well tells me that the relationship has definitely crossed the line from business to personal. I understand your general point that it's not all his fault and I don't pretend it is. But this organization just needs someone new even if it is just someone new to blame. He have had a bad last decade and we are still blaming the same person for it! Isn't that alone reason enough for change?

I do agree on the point that Snyders day to day meddling is most likely overblown.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

As long as he doesn't trade away picks and he stands up to danny boy not letting him run the redskins like a fantasy team it is a step in the right direction

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;522510]We could change GM's and things would be dandy for a short time, but I really think that over time people would only go back to blaming Snyder for "meddling" and they wouldn't believe that the GM is truly calling the shots.[/quote]

Not necessarily...it would depend on who the GM was and how much respect he has around the league. But maybe I am not the right person to answer that because I don't believe that Dan meddles much on a day to day basis to begin with. I believe that he lets Vinny do his job for the most part...I just don't think he makes Vinny accountable in the same way he has made everyone else there accountable over the last 10 years. And the proof of that is that he's pretty much the only one still there from the start.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=celts32;522542]That doesn't really make sense though. What GM has a close relationship with the owners father? To me the fact that he knows the father that well tells me that the relationship has definitely crossed the line from business to personal. I understand your general point that it's not all his fault and I don't pretend it is. But this organization just needs someone new even if it is just someone new to blame. He have had a bad last decade and we are still blaming the same person for it! Isn't that alone reason enough for change?

I do agree on the point that Snyders day to day meddling is most likely overblown.[/quote]

Well Snyder's father's been dead for about six years now you know, but the point was just that Snyder's dad and VC were friends. I think more so than VC and Dan. Snyder's dad's influence on the team and its decisions the first couple of years that Dan Snyder owned the team is a whole other story not really worth bringing up...but I digress.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

Yea I did know his father had passed away. I just think it's odd that he had such a close relationship with him. To me that's almost worse...if I ran a business and had an employee who I knew my late father was so fond of I would probably have a hard time ever letting that employee go.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

I don't think it stopped him in other cases. But I see your point.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;522500]The friendship between Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato is sooooo overblown, VC was actually probably better friends with Gerald Snyder than with Cerrato.

And Snyder's "meddling" in team affairs is overblown as well, especially in relation to other owners' "meddling" with their teams.

But ultimately it doesn't matter. Ultimately, VC just has to be removed from any football-related decision making. Not so much because of what he has and hasn't accomplished, but because fans just don't believe anything but what they decided to believe a long time ago.

As for Sean Taylor, we miss him big time on the field! Big time! Not to mention the fact that were he alive we probably would have spent the picks on Moore and/or Horton elsewhere, perhaps the line.[/quote]

I don't have your sources Smoot, so I just base my opinions on what I read & what's reported by espn et al. I don't know the extent of the 'meddling.' Maybe it should be clarified that Snyder negotiates contracts & makes some major personel decisions as a matter of standard business. If he doesn't do that, then I've been misled by various reporters.

Maybe that is what many fans see as "meddling." Rather than getting caught up in semantics, I'll just say that it appears to me that he makes or influences decisions that he is not best suited to, based on his background (he's been owner for 10 years now but he still doesn't have a lot of football experience).

What complicates this for many fans is that Snyder isn't very accessible and doesn't reach out to the fan base.

I truly hope he's giving Vinny the space he needs, and I would love to see both of them succeed of course. I even believe they can, it's just my opinion that in order to do so Snyder needs to change more than Vinny does. But if their personal relationship gets in the way - which again I don't know - then some change is needed.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;522510]We could change GM's and things would be dandy for a short time, but I really think that over time people would only go back to blaming Snyder for "meddling" and they wouldn't believe that the GM is truly calling the shots.[/quote]

The only thing that would change the perception of the media and fans, regardless of who is in the GM/personnel role, is a team that consistently is a threat to win 10+ games and go deep into the playoffs.

I'd be fine with a change of regime with the caveat that it's a full changing of football operations with one voice, one philosophy and a organizational structure that we're committed to. Just adding Allen to the muddled mess we currently have is rather pointless.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;522436]Oh boy :doh:[/quote]


I could have said I wanted Outback Steak house but that would be requesting Pioli and he's already taken.

Is there anyone in the catagory of .....T.G.I.Fridays, Applebee's, Carlos Okelly's? or are we going to be stuck with fast food and cheap beer? lol.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=Paintrain;522592]The only thing that would change the perception of the media and fans, regardless of who is in the GM/personnel role, is a team that consistently is a threat to win 10+ games and go deep into the playoffs.

I'd be fine with a change of regime with the caveat that it's a full changing of football operations with one voice, one philosophy and a organizational structure that we're committed to. [B]Just adding Allen to the muddled mess we currently have is rather pointless[/B].[/quote]

I think that's a good insight and probably correct. Also believe it will take a strong personality, though not necessarily a famous one, to be able to fundamentally change the FO approach to draft, FA etc (assuming a fundamental change isn't already occurring). I have no idea whether Allen is that personality.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

He brought Gaines Adams,Talib,and Cadillac through the draft for the Bucs so the guy has somewhat of an eye for talent unlike Cerrato

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=SKINSFAN63;522622]He brought Gaines Adams,Talib,and Cadillac through the draft for the Bucs so the guy has somewhat of an eye for talent unlike Cerrato[/quote]

Yeah...hitting with your number one usually isn't that easy.

...Welcome to the board

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;522632]Yeah...hitting with your number one usually isn't that easy.

...Welcome to the board[/quote]

Sure, like when we got Rod Gardner and Patrick Ramsey, right? :doh:

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

BTW Ruhskins if u remember Ramsey was Snyders Pick when camp was in Carlisle and the week he finally signed I booed Ramsey when he walked out to practice He was always a bum and will always be a bum and half of u people probably thought he was gonna be something just like u do in Campbell and then u all thought Gibbs was gonna be the savior of this franchise and then he let u down I knew once he came back to us the game has passed him by let him go own his stupid Nascar cars

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

Last time I checked Snyder will still be the owner. It doesn't matter who comes in to play GM.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=Bishop Hammer;522764]Last time I checked Snyder will still be the owner. It doesn't matter who comes in to play GM.[/quote]

Yes, Snyder is devil, blah blah blah. Thanks for bringing up the obvious and overused. :bdh:

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

Although I don't think Cerrato has the juice to be even an average GM you just have to keep him through this season. Same with Zorn. Show the league you can 'stay the course' and see if these two can put together a winning team.

Bringing Allen in will not really change anything.

If in 2010 or 2011 Danny snyder wants to change this team the best way to do that is with a BIG turnover. Bring in a Parcell's sort of guy to wipe the slat clean from top to bottom. Total change of philosophy, coaches, dropping most of the vets and a total re-building season.

Incremental changes are not going to do much now.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=A10sROCK;522821]Although I don't think Cerrato has the juice to be even an average GM you just have to keep him through this season. Same with Zorn. Show the league you can 'stay the course' and see if these two can put together a winning team.

Bringing Allen in will not really change anything.

If in 2010 or 2011 Danny snyder wants to change this team the best way to do that is with a BIG turnover. Bring in a Parcell's sort of guy to wipe the slat clean from top to bottom. Total change of philosophy, coaches, dropping most of the vets and a total re-building season.

Incremental changes are not going to do much now.[/quote]

That's what I'm saying. No GM is going to touch this team until he knows that he'll be given at least five years to do what he needs to do. If we fire Z or VC in the next few years it will be the same old story and no one will come here regardless of $. Until then draft O-Line and D-line men. So when they do start from top to bottom, we'll not have wasted draft positions on flash.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=A10sROCK;522821]Although I don't think Cerrato has the juice to be even an average GM you just have to keep him through this season. Same with Zorn. Show the league you can 'stay the course' and see if these two can put together a winning team.

Bringing Allen in will not really change anything.

If in 2010 or 2011 Danny snyder wants to change this team the best way to do that is with a BIG turnover. Bring in a Parcell's sort of guy to wipe the slat clean from top to bottom. Total change of philosophy, coaches, dropping most of the vets and a total re-building season.

Incremental changes are not going to do much now.[/quote]

Agreed, unless of course Vinny plans on giving away more of next years picks. In which case we need to get him out of here asap.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;522252]That's what I'm trying to figure out. His drafts in TB were pretty unremarkable. If the answer is because he's not Vinny, that's not really a great reason to me to go after him.[/quote]

I hear you on that

During their playoff years they drafted mid to late first round and that can often be a crapshoot as far as what you expect out of the player and what you might get... but you can't call him a draft genius either that's for sure

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

What ever happened to this "rumor". Haven't heard anything about it since.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;543984]What ever happened to this "rumor". Haven't heard anything about it since.[/quote]

Like most rumors it started out with a bang and then died a quiet death.

Re: RUMOR: Bruce Allen to Redskins?
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;522234]Whaaaa???? I don't get this.

[URL="http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/01/22/allen-to-land-with-the-redskins/"]ProFootballTalk.com - ALLEN TO LAND WITH THE REDSKINS?[/URL][/quote]

I don't get why people read that tabloid.